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My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1 - Page 4

post #91 of 234
9/30/08 at 7:29pm

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdee28
Given the outcry over the Fugitive Season 2, Volume 1 and the non-release of the Fugitive Season 2, Volume 2, maybe -- hopefully!! -- CBS/Paramount will never go the route of dumping complete music scores ever again.
Well they have, I went to buy When We Left Earth on 1/2 off sale at Best Buy and gave in and bought My Three Sons since it was even cheaper than Amazon.
Went right to the episode Lady Engineer and its gone, the great jazz music, replaced with the Mark Heyes synthesizers in a pitiful attempt at jazz. Then to the episode Brotherly Love starring Cheryl Holdridge. Mark Heyes style synthesizers replacing all the original music. And it is awful music, when you play it next to the original it is so pitiful, the original music was so good. The Mark Heyes crap is so amatuer I bet he comes real cheap. Have spot sampled a couple more episodes and its all gone. Do not waste your money on this release. I hope someday another company like Image will licence these shows and do it right.
Shame on CBS.
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post #92 of 234
9/30/08 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
Well they have, I went to buy When We Left Earth on 1/2 off sale at Best Buy and gave in and bought My Three Sons since it was even cheaper than Amazon.
Went right to the episode Lady Engineer and its gone, the great jazz music, replaced with the Mark Heyes synthesizers in a pitiful attempt at jazz. Then to the episode Brotherly Love starring Cheryl Holdridge. Mark Heyes style synthesizers replacing all the original music. And it is awful music, when you play it next to the original it is so pitiful, the original music was so good. The Mark Heyes crap is so amatuer I bet he comes real cheap. Have spot sampled a couple more episodes and its all gone. Do not waste your money on this release. I hope someday another company like Image will licence these shows and do it right.
Shame on CBS.

What?!!! They messed with the Cheryl Holdridge episode? Is nothing sacred? This is ridiculous and will probably mean a no sale for me. And no, I'm not being sarcastic (as anyone here knows Cheryl was my first crush as a kid). I just can't believe they are doing this!

Gary "so incredibly disappointed with CBS/P at this point" O.
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post #93 of 234
9/30/08 at 7:51pm

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
Well they have, I went to buy When We Left Earth on 1/2 off sale at Best Buy and gave in and bought My Three Sons since it was even cheaper than Amazon.
Went right to the episode Lady Engineer and its gone, the great jazz music, replaced with the Mark Heyes synthesizers in a pitiful attempt at jazz. Then to the episode Brotherly Love starring Cheryl Holdridge. Mark Heyes style synthesizers replacing all the original music. And it is awful music, when you play it next to the original it is so pitiful, the original music was so good. The Mark Heyes crap is so amatuer I bet he comes real cheap. Have spot sampled a couple more episodes and its all gone. Do not waste your money on this release. I hope someday another company like Image will licence these shows and do it right.
Shame on CBS.

Thanks for the warning, Jim. This is a definite pass for me then.

This music replacement makes the very high price point for this half season even more puzzling. If CBS/P had high licensing fees to retain the music this would explain the high price, but that does not appear to be the case.

The fact that Mr. Heyes' name is not digitally inserted into the credits makes it appear that CBS/P is attempting to hide these replacements even more so than the Fugitive debacle.

To be fair, I hold no animosity toward Mr. Heyes. He's just doing a job. The ill will should be directed towards his employer.

CBS/P could be the subject of an interesting case study: how a studio has gone from top of the heap in the classic TV department to being scorned within a relatively short time.

Their unwillingness to go "on the record" about these changes is a big mistake IMO. The American public has a track record of being rather forgiving and understanding when told the honest truth straight up. By refusing to enter a "no spin zone" CBS/P is making themselves look bad.
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post #94 of 234
9/30/08 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve...O
To be fair, I hold no animosity toward Mr. Heyes. He's just doing a job. The ill will should be directed towards his employer.

I need to "amen" this, Steve. Mr. Heyes is not to be blamed here, but I think we all know who should be blamed.

Gary "they are really pushing me to rethink my buying purchases overall with their company - how crazy is that when just 6 months ago I was singing their praises" O.
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post #95 of 234
9/30/08 at 8:08pm

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

I can not say for sure it is Heyes but after listening to his work for the Fugitive I would bet it is. And I do place some of the blame on someone who would take a job that destroyed a classic. I am not the best musician but I old friends with one of the worlds greatest jazz piano players, arranger, organist, producer, out of New York, and knowing him and his respect for past classics, lets just say he would never take a job to rework something that was classic perfection like the Fugitive or this show.

Anyway my fear is that now that CBS/P has done this to these shows, if a network wants to broadcast it or another company wants to licence it they will get these versions that CBS has changed. These shows might now be permenantly ruined. In disecting the musical elements from the shows we may have forever lost the original versions?
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post #96 of 234
9/30/08 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
I can not say for sure it is Heyes but after listening to his work for the Fugitive I would bet it is. And I do place some of the blame on someone who would take a job that destroyed a classic. I am not the best musician but I old friends with one of the worlds greatest jazz piano players, arranger, organist, producer, out of New York, and knowing him and his respect for past classics, lets just say he would never take a job to rework something that was classic perfection like the Fugitive or this show.

Anyway my fear is that now that CBS/P has done this to these shows, if a network wants to broadcast it or another company wants to licence it they will get these versions that CBS has changed. These shows might now be permenantly ruined. In disecting the musical elements from the shows we may have forever lost the original versions?


Jim, I agree with you that as a person who cares greatly about classic television I would NOT have signed on to do this work (not that I can do it, just making a general point). And that Mr. Heyes agreed to do it does make him liable for this unfortunate situation to some degree. But our greater outrage should surely be directed at CBS/Paramount for commissioning this type of work at all. See, if not Heyes, then someone else. They would have found somebody to do this work, so I'm not nearly as disturbed at the individual as I am at the company making the choice to do this in the first place. Nope, for my money the brunt of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of CBS/Paramount. As was said before, "Shame on them!"


Gary "this really needs to be addressed - calling Dave & Gord, calling Dave & Gord" O.
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post #97 of 234
9/30/08 at 11:35pm

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Glad I cancelled my pre-order.

So sad.

More money to the bootleggers.

I have no more anger to give this. I am all out and love classic TV on DVD too much.

The end result? I'm buying a tenth of what I used to buy, just because my pre-order habit is gone for good. I used to pre-order the day of the solicit.

Never again.
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post #98 of 234
10/1/08 at 3:17am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH CBS/P?

Too Cheep or Too Lazy?

Why not use suitable replacement classic library cues owned by CBS instead of having 'new' music compossed?

AT LEAST it would sound more authentic.

Can't use some of the original cues, then find subsitutions from an age-approprate library!

Simple!
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post #99 of 234
10/1/08 at 3:22am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
I need to "amen" this, Steve. Mr. Heyes is not to be blamed here ....

He can be blamed for not composing better matching music!

If you're replacing 1950's music - make it sound like 1950's
If you're replacing 1960's music - make is sound like 1960's

Case in point,THE FUGITIVE could have been rescored BETTER if the music was closer in spirit to the original.

How many times have you heard sound-a-like similar sounding music that you could tell what it was supposed to be.

Synthesizers isn't the way to go - they should put together a small combo - 3-4 guys - studio folks who can sound like the era the programs are from.

sure it might add a little more to the production costs - but it would SOUND BETTER.
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post #100 of 234
10/1/08 at 5:01am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

What is going on with Paramount? I cannot fathom these musical scores would be that expensive to secure, it seems to me they are'nt even bothering, given that they are charging a ridiculous price for a half a season I would expect these fees to be taken care of. The word needs to get out to the mainstream video publication , especially the ones running the Ads that Paramount places Classic TV on a pedestal, about these releases. What gets me is that Rawhide uses many stock cues yet those soundtracks are untouched as are gunsmoke's, might not this be the case for the next versions. And what about S5 of the Odd couple? This is insane.
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post #101 of 234
10/1/08 at 5:05am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

I usually Rail against the bootleggers and despite it being the HTF Policy I would'nt blame anyone for going to the bootleggers for these releases.
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post #102 of 234
10/1/08 at 5:12am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa
What is going on with Paramount? I cannot fathom these musical scores would be that expensive to secure, it seems to me they are'nt even bothering, given that they are charging a ridiculous price for a half a season I would expect these fees to be taken care of.

I agree. They should pass the savings onto the consumer since they don't have to pay the higher fees for music clearances--OR they could use the money they saved to create special bonus features like cast interviews or commentaries.

I read that a lot of people have canceled their orders because of the music replacement, but if Paramount HAD included special features like original promos or cast commercials then maybe consumers would still buy it just to have the extras.
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post #103 of 234
10/1/08 at 5:45am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
Hopefully someone who knows the correct music for this release will review it soon so we will know what if anything has been removed. I am very gun shy after what CBS did with the Fugitive with no warning.

Maybe Paul Mavis will review it soon and let us know ha ha

Hi, Jim -- I will be reviewing it soon for DVDTalk - it was just assigned to me. So...let the hate email begin! (just kidding).
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post #104 of 234
10/1/08 at 5:46am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee Green

I read that a lot of people have canceled their orders because of the music replacement, but if Paramount HAD included special features like original promos or cast commercials then maybe consumers would still buy it just to have the extras.

Sorry, not even extras would entice me to make a purchase. I had The Fugitive Season 2 Volume 1 and I was unable to keep the set due to the horrible, over loud underscore. No amount of extras would have placed this in my collection.

Replacing underscore/music and giving fans something else will not work with this consumer.

Doug
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post #105 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:19am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

My Last Paramount Preorder, ordered a while back is Mission Impossible S5 which I'm hopeful will be OK, but that will be my last Preorder, I'll wait for after Release date and if it is unchanged I will order a CBS title, if not I pass
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post #106 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:29am
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

This is truly a nightmare. I'm just in shock that this is happening again after the FUGE fiasco. I was so sure Paramount would have learned their lesson from that disaster. Apparently not. I'm down to only 4 shows that I'll still even consider buying from CBS/Paramount (and I was, before this summer, buying pretty much everything they offered just to support the company):

PERRY MASON - not on release date, but only after I find a great deal because I'm not paying over $25 for a half season set.

RAWHIDE - because it's become one of my all time favorite shows.

THE UNTOUCHABLES - but I'm barely hanging on with this one.

HAWAII FIVE-0 - might not keep this one up for much longer.

Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction are now on the "wait and see" list for me. If they are not tampered with, I'll pick them up. But that's it. Nothing else.


Gary "what a joke" O.
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post #107 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:34am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

This is very disappointing that CBS has chosen to do this! Can you imagine if CBS had just started releasing the Brady Bunch and changed THAT series famous music cues??? God help 'em if they do this to Petticoat Junction!!
I'm not cancelling my order since I want to see these shows again and no channel is rerunning My Three Sons. I could understand if My Three Sons had a lot of famous music guests and songs to clear, but this is just plain stupid!
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post #108 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:49am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

This music changing does not bode well for The Lucy Show either. Shame on Paramount. Either pay for the music or sell these cheap with the replacements. Unfortunately My Three Sons will proabbly never be released on DVD now do to poor sales of Volume 1.
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post #109 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Oh, one more really important thing. Steve's point about the ending credits not showing the new composer is a BIG, BIG deal. He may very well be correct in his assumptions about CBS/Paramount looking to cloak this. Surely that point needs looking in to. I'll bet certain people are looking into this as I type.

Gary "surely the company wouldn't try to pull that, would they?" O.
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post #110 of 234
10/1/08 at 6:56am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

I don't see how the music changes save CBS any money.

I would be disheartend if they did this to The Lucy Show, but that series was not well known for its music score, so it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

But I'm still aghast that someone at CBS thought this was a brilliant idea!
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post #111 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:11am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

So...based on Post #91 by Jim B., the following is true:

Crime #1: CBS has changed music cues on episodes of My Three Sons.

Crime #2: CBS did NOT include any warning/disclaimer on the packaging or press releases that this was the case.

Crime #3: CBS does not include ANY indication in the show's credits that they have altered the programs in any way.



It's one thing to make changes. Some executive could argue that there's "reason x" and, without the changes, My Three Sons would never see a release on DVD. But without that knowledge, it does, indeed, look like they are trying to pull a fast one without ANY warning that the shows have been altered from their original broadcast presentation.

I'm sure curious to hear what those synthesizer cues sound like. I can only imagine that they MUST stand out like a sore thumb.
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post #112 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:24am
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Crime #2: CBS did NOT include any warning/disclaimer on the packaging or prews releases that this was the case.


I'm sure curious to hear what those synthesizer cues sound like. I can only imagine that they MUST stand out like a sore thumb.


The standard CBS/P disclaimer is on the set.


I'd imagine the music does stand out badly, based on early reviews.


Gary "just can't believe old scores like these can't be cleared" O.
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post #113 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:37am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
The standard CBS/P disclaimer is on the set.


I'd imagine the music does stand out badly, based on early reviews.

Thanks for the correction, Gary. I have amended the part of my post you quoted.

It's funny, though, because I actually picked up and held the release at a couple different stores last night ($39.99 at FYE! ) and read the packaging pretty carefully (or so I thought) looking for such a disclaimer...and I didn't see one. Must have just missed it.
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post #114 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:43am
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Thanks for the correction, Gary. I have amended the part of my post you quoted.

It's funny, though, because I actually picked up and held the release at a couple different stores last night ($39.99 at FYE! ) and read the packaging pretty carefully (or so I thought) looking for such a disclaimer...and I didn't see one. Must have just missed it.


No problem, Mike. In your defense, CBS/P doesn't generally display the disclaimer in large, bold type. It's in the fine print, as always.


Gary "still completely disgusted by this fiasco" O.
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post #115 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:44am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

The "icing on the cake" for me is how CBS/P shifts gears in mid-stream cancels the full season set and replaces it with this bastardized half-season set at a $39.98 list price! Somehow, this just doesn't past the smell test IMO...
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post #116 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:54am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
No problem, Mike. In your defense, CBS/P doesn't generally display the disclaimer in large, bold type. It's in the fine print, as always.

The thing is, like I said...I WAS LOOKING FOR IT! TWICE! And, I still didn't see it! And I was reading the fine print.

But I guess we need to take into account my thread in "After Hours" on bi-focals...

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post #117 of 234
10/1/08 at 7:59am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Wow, even when I want to give them my money they make it impossible to do so. this is yet another big disappointment. I was really looking forward to this and picked it up yesterday at lunch. I am going to return it today at lunch.
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post #118 of 234
10/1/08 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
Went right to the episode Lady Engineer and its gone, the great jazz music, replaced with the Mark Heyes synthesizers in a pitiful attempt at jazz. Then to the episode Brotherly Love starring Cheryl Holdridge. Mark Heyes style synthesizers replacing all the original music. And it is awful music, when you play it next to the original it is so pitiful, the original music was so good. The Mark Heyes crap is so amatuer I bet he comes real cheap. Have spot sampled a couple more episodes and its all gone. Do not waste your money on this release.


Jim, just so I'm getting this right: Are you telling us that the entire underscore is gone? That the only thing remaining, like the FUGITIVE, is the opening and closing credits score? Is that what you are saying? Or are we talking about select "radio" or "jukebox" scores within the show? I think you are telling us all the backscore is gone, but I want to make doubly sure I'm reading you correctly.


Gary "I feel like I'm going to toss my cookies" O.
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post #119 of 234
10/1/08 at 8:11am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

I have had a little time to compare these new episodes to the originals and one episode is completely intact with original music, the very first one "Chip Off The Old Block". This was one that had "Music by Frank Devol" instead of "Original Theme by Frank Devol" but the next episode "The Little Ragpicker" also a "Music by.." is completely rescored. I will continue to go through these but have spot checked almost all of the episodes and have found no other original music anywhere. So for $25 + you get 1 original show.
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post #120 of 234
10/1/08 at 8:21am

Re: My Three Sons: Season 1, Vol. 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
Jim, just so I'm getting this right: Are you telling us that the entire underscore is gone? That the only thing remaining, like the FUGITIVE, is the opening and closing credits score? Is that what you are saying? Or are we talking about select "radio" or "jukebox" scores within the show? I think you are telling us all the backscore is gone, but I want to make doubly sure I'm reading you correctly.


Gary "I feel like I'm going to toss my cookies" O.
Yes Gary other than the first episode the ENTIRE underscore is gone and replaced with synthesizer music that attempts to mimic the original but is very non musical and has an infantile almost silly feeling to it and the original beautiful wistful meloncholy cues are replaced with music that is completely devoid of any emotion. Sound familiar?
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