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post #61 of 117
3/20/08 at 9:01pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George
I predict you will hear positive rumbling from me regarding Blu-ray when there is something positive worth my time to say. I don't post in Internet forums to make myself seem important or just to "hear" myself talk. I prefer a productive, useful, and enlightening exchange of ideas, and the occasional game of grabass. Cheerleading I leave to others better suited to that sort of thing.

So spell it out. Your saying as far as your concerned Blu-ray does nothing right? Or, it has nothing right at this point? And am i right in quoting you that you "prefer a productive, useful, and enlightening exchange of ideas." cause if thats so, im still waiting for the productive part.
post #62 of 117
3/21/08 at 4:56am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Your saying as far as your concerned Blu-ray does nothing right?

Quote:
I predict you will hear positive rumbling from me regarding Blu-ray when there is something positive worth my time to say.

I'm not sure how you can get the first quote out of the second quote, but then, I've seen a lot of this in the past couple of years.

The things Blu-ray does "right" are the things it SHOULD do right. I suppose some people think that is something special. I don't. I do think the things it does WRONG and the things the format backers have done badly put the format in a negative light that they now have to overcome, not by correcting the mistakes, but by doing something special. I'm not sure what that could be this late in the game, though. The time for that was two years ago.
post #63 of 117
3/21/08 at 7:46am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George
As in, there is so little (relatively) BD50 capacity and what is there is taken by companies with higher priority (think Sony, Disney, Warner, and Fox, probably in that order). The production queue for BD50 is months long. You think Fox really wanted to put only the theatrical version of Die Hard 4 on Blu-ray?

Err, is this a serious question?
Quote:
Limited BD50 capacity is the natural result of two main factors. Very few commercially viable production lines for BD50, and terrible yields on most of the ones that do exist. Only Sony has been reported to get up to 80% yield on their BD50 lines, and even 80% is pretty bad compared to DVD, and even HD DVD. Cycle times are also much slower than DVD, meaning it takes something like twice the time to make a BD disc as a DVD disc. Multiplied by hundreds of thousands (we ain't even talking about the millions we have with DVD), long cycle times add up fast. End result, BD50 isn't nearly so rosy a picture as some would have people believe.

Sony DADC get yields all the way above 90% for BD50 consistently and around 93-99% consistently for BD25, I got special clearance to say that publicly. The reason Cinram don't get yields like Sony is that they ave been concentrating on getting cycle times down.

I don't know why I'm even bothering, I mean, how many times do your 'sources' have to be wrong so that people stop listening to you. I suppose if you tell people what they want to hear (that Blu-ray is going to fail, etc...) they will ignore past indiscretions.
post #64 of 117
3/21/08 at 8:02am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Graham
Okay, so folks inside the Blu camp have lied to both myself and Bill Hunt (who granted, you have called an asshole on another forum, and thus might not have much faith in), and we have naively been spreading the word hither and yon. The authoring house in question is ..., and they apparently have higher standards than those who have produced the crappy transfers out there. Or I've taken the Blu bait hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I was told all of this right after the Warner announcement, and thus after the war was practically over and Universal had just gotten getting truly serious about going Blu, means nothing.

It would be nice if no names were mentioned, so can this be edited, mods?
Quote:
Truth be told, and no personal offense intended, but most people on here, AVS, and elsewhere have always made their preferences and agenda evident in their postings over the course of the war, myself being no exception. Yours has been such that I take any inside rumblings you report with the same grain of salt I take the inside rumblings from those who have made it known they are employed by or benefit from the success of any or all of the companies involved in HD DVD or Blu-Ray. I predict I will hear positive inside rumblings from you regarding Blu-Ray right around the same time I hear one of the BDA insiders say "Ya know, HD DVD wasn't really that bad of a product, and in fact in some respects had ours beat."

Hey, I've always said that launching with a somewhat stable spec would have been a good idea, makes no difference now though.

Everyone has an agenda, I have an agenda, for the furtherance of Blu-ray. I also have principles though, so I find it difficult to misrepresent the truth unlike other insiders, I don't like misleading people...
Quote:
Crawdaddy also makes a fine point that a lot of Universal's best HD DVDs releases fit on 25 gigs or less, which does raise the question of
why they would need BD50s for much if any of their previously released high def material.

It is a good point, the fact is that there is only 5gb in it and a lot of Uni's titles had multiple audio tracks and U-Control, if these were done away with and the primary audio tracked "dumbed down" to 640k DD instead of 1.5Mb DD+ pretty much all of Uni's releases would fit onto a BD25.

So, no the problem does not lie with replication capacity, it lies with expertise. Universal have absolutely zero experience with Blu-ray, and sure you can make as many phone-calls as you like to post-houses but the number which offer Blu-ray services is much lower that the number which offer DVD. Quite simply the constraint lies with how many titles can be processed in a given amount of time, to fix this the only solution would be to hire more people, or do it in-house a la Sony/Warner.

Anyway, Universal probably won't get anything out of the door for at least a couple of months...
post #65 of 117
3/21/08 at 8:13am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
the fact is that there is only 5gb in it and a lot of Uni's titles had multiple audio tracks and U-Control, if these were done away with and the primary audio tracked "dumbed down" to 640k DD instead of 1.5Mb DD+ pretty much all of Uni's releases would fit onto a BD25.
But why would they want to do all that dumping and "dumbing down"? Haven't the BR people been more or less constantly extolling the virtues of better audio on BR (ie lossless)?
post #66 of 117
3/21/08 at 8:18am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

My only problem with this thread, is i cant tell it apart from most the other threads that have the name Blu-ray in it. Its always the same people coming in these threads. Half of them say Blu-ray sucks, and does nothing right. The studio support thread, the I, Robot thread, and this one look exactly the same. Sometimes i am not sure which one is which. The one thing i liked...in one of them...is why do some of you guys even bother to post in the HD Software section if you dont like Blu-ray? I agree studios like FOX need to get on the ball with price vs. lack of extras, but i think many studios (Warner, Lionsgate, Disney) get things right. If i know who you guys are, and how you feel, i am pretty sure everyone has your names by now. So do you haters have to crap on every thread?
post #67 of 117
3/21/08 at 8:21am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Did someone say "lossless auido"? I felt a twinge in my left elbow and had to log on to make sure... yep... "lossless"...




Quote:
But why would they want to do all that dumping and "dumbing down"? Haven't the BR people been more or less constantly extolling the virtues of better audio on BR (ie lossless)?

Agreed. Lossless or not at all.
post #68 of 117
3/21/08 at 8:42am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
But why would they want to do all that dumping and "dumbing down"? Haven't the BR people been more or less constantly extolling the virtues of better audio on BR (ie lossless)?

All I was getting at is that Uni could release titles tomorrow if they had the inclination and wherewithal to do it.

The thing is, Uni probably won't recycle the video encodes, which is why they bothered going to a new post-house in the first place. If they go through with this plan, I would have thought that lossless audio will be a standard affair just like it is for the other Blu-ray studios.
post #69 of 117
3/21/08 at 9:26am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
The thing is, Uni probably won't recycle the video encodes, which is why they bothered going to a new post-house in the first place. If they go through with this plan, I would have thought that lossless audio will be a standard affair just like it is for the other Blu-ray studios.
That clearly implies, though, that 25 gb won't do, so they ARE going to have to use 50 gb.
post #70 of 117
3/21/08 at 9:28am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Err, is this a serious question?


Sony DADC get yields all the way above 90% for BD50 consistently and around 93-99% consistently for BD25, I got special clearance to say that publicly. The reason Cinram don't get yields like Sony is that they ave been concentrating on getting cycle times down.

I don't know why I'm even bothering, I mean, how many times do your 'sources' have to be wrong so that people stop listening to you. I suppose if you tell people what they want to hear (that Blu-ray is going to fail, etc...) they will ignore past indiscretions.
Well, since we have such a knowledgeable source here, can you explain how DADC can ony produce 9,000 BD50 per 24 hours if they have yields "above 90% for BD50 consistently"? They have also shared their cycle time for BD50, which is equivalent to Oerlikon/Cinram (~5.9s).

Either their uptime is in the pooper, your information is incorrect, or DADC can't present their own facts properly.

Or are you going to suggest that there is been some incredible improvement in performance in the last 3 weeks?

Where does that leave this statement? "I also have principles though, so I find it difficult to misrepresent the truth unlike other insiders, I don't like misleading people..." Comedy gold.
post #71 of 117
3/21/08 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987


The thing is, Uni probably won't recycle the video encodes, which is why they bothered going to a new post-house in the first place. If they go through with this plan, I would have thought that lossless audio will be a standard affair just like it is for the other Blu-ray studios.
Hope your right about that!
Wouldn't mind waiting for a better encode (less video compression with BD 50) and lossless audio.
IMHO, that would sell all their existing HD DVD releases and some.

Paul
post #72 of 117
3/21/08 at 10:32am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

With the crap that get released at the moment (imho of course) I personally couldn't care less if the yields were 0 and the cycle times hours.
post #73 of 117
3/21/08 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N
With the crap that get released at the moment (imho of course) I personally couldn't care less if the yields were 0 and the cycle times hours.

Universal hasn't announced anything new yet, but there are a few titles that they had on HD DVD that I'd get again if they were optimized for BD.

Serenity
Van Helsing
U-571
The Rundown
The Chronicles of Riddick
Spartacus
Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas
The Frighteners
Meet Joe Black
Hot Fuzz
The Last Starfighter
The Bourne Identity
The Bourne Ultimatum
The Bourne Supremacy

Paul
post #74 of 117
3/21/08 at 11:37am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Graham
Bill Hunt, as well as some of the Blu-Ray insiders, have stated that the issues lie with Universal catching up on the ins and out of the technical side of Blu-Ray, specifically BD-J.


Why would they require BD-J? Most of Warner's catalog titles on blu-ray aren't BD-J discs. They just have standard menus. Unless Universal is trying to add U-Control to their blu-ray disc, which most of their catalog titles didn't use, There would be no need for BD-J

Doug
post #75 of 117
3/21/08 at 11:41am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
I don't know why I'm even bothering, I mean, how many times do your 'sources' have to be wrong so that people stop listening to you.

I have yet to see anything that proves my "sources" wrong, other than the opinions a few fanbois that prefer the ostrich approach, and you who by his own admission has an agenda to see Blu-ray succeed.

Quote:
Sony DADC get yields all the way above 90% for BD50 consistently and around 93-99% consistently for BD25, I got special clearance to say that publicly

BDA sources have consistently misrepresented, obfuscated, if not outright lied, about BD50 yields for over two years. But now they're telling the truth.

One of my favorite movie quotes, "don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining".

But, you are correct in that everyone has an agenda. The difference between you and me is that your agenda is corporate driven and my agenda is to get a format that delivers what it promises at a price I consider fair.
post #76 of 117
3/21/08 at 11:55am

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Fair price to me is slightly more than DVD. I don't understand those who are saying that BD has to come down to the same price as DVD to succeed.

I om ok with paying slightly more, because I am getting something better.

And as for all the talk about process capacity goes, that was true a few years ago, but is getting better all the time. So my advice is to just give them a little time.

Soon they will be cranking them out just as easily as dvds. It will just take a while to dial everything in.

I am sure the first year that DVDs were being pumped out, they werent perfect. They still have not got double sided dvds to a reasonable quality in my opinion and it has been 10 years (or so).

So stop calling Blu-ray doomed before giving them at least a year.

You will all be shocked at how quickly people are going to go blue.
post #77 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:06pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S

So stop calling Blu-ray doomed before giving them at least a year.

You will all be shocked at how quickly people are going to go blue.

They've had 2 years now and they don't even have a finished spec player out yet.

Look I'm not doom and gloom at all about blu-ray. I happen to like the format. But there is clearly much room for improvement and I'm not sure that it's quite the rosy picture that Maxpower paints at the replication plants. I'm sure its improving all the time but I'm not buying that they are able to accommodate all the studios needs just yet.

Doug
post #78 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:16pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

The clock didn't start until HD-DVD was officially ended. It is unfair to judge the BD acceptance when there was a format war going on.

So I meant to start the clock from the day of Toshiba's announcment.
post #79 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:17pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
But, you are correct in that everyone has an agenda. The difference between you and me is that your agenda is corporate driven and my agenda is to get a format that delivers what it promises at a price I consider fair.

Maxpower has been a reliable insider at blu.com for months. Sure he has a pro-blu agenda, but that doesn't mean he's not truthful. And it doesn't mean that he also doesn't share your own agenda of a quality product at a reasonable price.

Can we please avoid insulting insiders on the forum? It's one reason why so few post at places like HTF and AVS. A little respect would encourage more folks with real knowledge to share.
post #80 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:26pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Maxpower has been a reliable insider at blu.com for months. Sure he has a pro-blu agenda, but that doesn't mean he's not truthful. And it doesn't mean that he also doesn't share your own agenda of a quality product at a reasonable price.

Can we please avoid insulting insiders on the forum? It's one reason why so few post at places like HTF and AVS. A little respect would encourage more folks with real knowledge to share.


Maxpower, if he is who he says he is, has as part of his job the agenda of painting blu-ray in the best possible light. I'm not saying this to besmirch him, thats his job and that is what he is expected to do. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

But by definition that means that from him you will hear only the good and none of the bad. Or at least the bad will be spun to look as good as possible.

If you only listen to the P.R. people you won't get the whole story. Getting information from others who have have experience in this field and have a differing point of view maybe useful also.

Doug
post #81 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:30pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
The clock didn't start until HD-DVD was officially ended. It is unfair to judge the BD acceptance when there was a format war going on.

So I meant to start the clock from the day of Toshiba's announcment.

I couldn't disagree with this more. If blu-ray wasn't ready to be released until HD DVD was dead then they should have waited. They have had 2 years to get their act together.

They have made some progress sure, but at this point they should be running on all cylinders and they aren't really there yet.

Doug
post #82 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:38pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
The clock didn't start until HD-DVD was officially ended.
What does the presence of HDDVD have to do with not finishing the player spec? If anything, it accelerated getting it done.
post #83 of 117
3/21/08 at 12:40pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I couldn't disagree with this more. If blu-ray wasn't ready to be released until HD DVD was dead then they should have waited. They have had 2 years to get their act together.

They have made some progress sure, but at this point they should be running on all cylinders and they aren't really there yet.

Doug

Doug,

I'd agree w/ you in terms of placing blame and such on how long it's taken so far. For one thing, I think both sides were premature in different ways.

However, I'd have to think the format war did make matters more difficult than otherwise. For one thing, I've got to think it made it harder for companies to make full commitments to go in a certain direction. And if the various payoffs are indeed real and as big as they're rumored, well, doesn't that take away resources that would've otherwise been used in these areas? It also didn't help that things turned into a stalemate as late as the holiday season following Paramount's defection to HDD.

Perhaps it'd be fairer to split the difference and consider it one year so far?

_Man_
post #84 of 117
3/21/08 at 1:09pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Doug,

I'd agree w/ you in terms of placing blame and such on how long it's taken so far. For one thing, I think both sides were premature in different ways.

However, I'd have to think the format war did make matters more difficult than otherwise. For one thing, I've got to think it made it harder for companies to make full commitments to go in a certain direction. And if the various payoffs are indeed real and as big as they're rumored, well, doesn't that take away resources that would've otherwise been used in these areas? It also didn't help that things turned into a stalemate as late as the holiday season following Paramount's defection to HDD.

Perhaps it'd be fairer to split the difference and consider it one year so far?

_Man_


I'm not sure I would go that far. Not to argue the format war again, but frankly HD DVD delivered on everything it said it would do, almost from day one, upgrading to 5.1 true HD not withstanding. Blu-ray has yet to deliver everything that it is SUPPOSED to be able to do 2 years down the road.

This isn't anything against Sony. (I am NOT a Sony hater) They were forced to release a product that wasn't ready yet because Toshiba's was ready. I understand that Sony felt they couldn't wait or they would lose before the war got started. But that doesn't change the fact that 2 years later the product still isn't ready.

Doug
post #85 of 117
3/21/08 at 1:15pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Graham
Okay, so folks inside the Blu camp have lied to both myself and Bill Hunt (who granted, you have called an asshole on another forum, and thus might not have much faith in), and we have naively been spreading the word hither and yon. The authoring house in question is Technicolor, and they apparently have higher standards than those who have produced the crappy transfers out there. Or I've taken the Blu bait hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I was told all of this right after the Warner announcement, and thus after the war was practically over and Universal had just gotten getting truly serious about going Blu, means nothing.

Obviously if you got your information from someone directly involved with Universal's Blu-Ray plans, then I have been taken for a ride along with Mr. Hunt. If that is where you got your information.

I am QUITE confident that I haven't been "taken for a ride" by the BDA, nor am I spreading Blu-ray propaganda. I believe my record of accuracy with regard to this format war and how it played out is well proven. Meanwhile, I recall claims not so very long ago that Fox was within moments of flipping to HD-DVD exclusivity, and the Indiana Jones movies were on tap for HD-DVD later this year, etc. So people would do well to consider the source when they read some of this stuff.

There are many reasons for the delay in making announcements, particularly by Universal and Paramount, and lack of BD-50 repliction capacity has little to do with them. There's political face saving going on, there are contractual/financial details with Toshiba still to resolve, plus it simply takes time to prepare enough titles to really make a splash with an announcement. Universal and particularly Paramount are very well aware that they've pissed off just about everyone, so they're taking their sweet time in moving forward. They don't want to screw this up again.

But I'm told by people directly involved, that I've known for years, that many BD titles are currently being authored and replicated, and that the BDA is taking pains to MAKE ROOM for both studios to get titles their pressed and ready. What's more, the BDA is working hard to have enough replication capacity ready to meet demand, especially by the 3rd and 4th quarters.

And let me just tell you all right now, Max Power knows what the hell he's talking about. In the entire time I've known him, his information has been 100% reliable. We can talk endlessly about people's agendas, but it's worth pointing out - that door swings both ways. So take that as you will.
post #86 of 117
3/21/08 at 1:23pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

I'm definitely considering the source.

Doug
post #87 of 117
3/21/08 at 2:07pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Doug, you keep using the word "defiantly". I think you mean "definitely".
post #88 of 117
3/21/08 at 2:09pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Doug, you keep using the word "defiantly". I think you mean "definitely".

You maybe right. Dyslexia forces me to depend on the computer for spelling correction. Sometimes it's guesses are worse than mine. Thanks for the catch.

Doug
post #89 of 117
3/21/08 at 2:21pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Freudian slip is more likely.

Anyhow..............back to your regularly scheduled program smackdown.


post #90 of 117
3/21/08 at 2:40pm

Re: Universal Preparing Titles for Blu-ray

Quote:
Maxpower, if he is who he says he is, has as part of his job the agenda of painting blu-ray in the best possible light. I'm not saying this to besmirch him, thats his job and that is what he is expected to do. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

At blu.com, he's posted the good along with the bad month after month, and he's always been right and has never posted false information. His inside info is new to HTF so it's best to just sit back and listen and see how his information plays out with time rather than treat his contributions as one-sided.


Quote:
If you only listen to the P.R. people you won't get the whole story. Getting information from others who have have experience in this field and have a differing point of view maybe useful also.

Maxpower is not a P.R. person. You clearly are not familiar with him or his track record. It's not Bill Hunt's opinion of Maxpower that should be drawn into question, but yours. Doug, if you give it some time, I think you'll find that Maxpower's comments prove themselves to be true. Trust me, of all the posters here, he's the one who least deserves to have his comments read with a skeptical point of view.
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