FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!! - Page 3

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

It is very good. Susan Hayward hires Gary Cooper, Richard Widmark and Cameron Mitchell to go save her husband who is trapped in a Mexican goldmine. After trekking for days from a small town to get there, they find him in a very sick state, then have to try to carry him on horses to the town, all the time they are being pursued by Indians. There is of course tension within the group between those that think he should be saved and others who think his sickness is risking the lives of the entire group.

It's a great Western from an underrated director. It features some brilliant CinemaScope compositions, like this one of Hayward walking towards an old Church.


It also has an excellent score by Bernard Herrmann. I'm sure Fox will produce a better transfer than the Optimum UK DVD that the frame capture was taken from. Hopefully it will have 4.0 audio. You can't go wrong with that set, 3 films for $20 is a bargain, let alone the fact two of them Garden of Evil, and The Gunfighter are classic Westerns.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

I prefer Garden of Evil a hundred fold to the MGM Gary Cooper movie Vera Cruz (not a Lancaster fan), but would say that Anthony Mann's Man of the West and The Westerner would be favored by myself to Garden of Evil slightly. As a Gary Cooper extreme fan, I think The Spoilers (1930) is my most wanted to be released western title of Coop's but that is owned by Universial and may not ever be released eventhough there is a very good print of it in the vaults. It actaully was planned to be released in a Vol 2 box set this May but I guess they decided to re-release a box set of a bunch of James Stewart westerns already on dvd instead.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

I'm a huge fan of Vera Cruz. For me it's on par with Garden of Evil.

But I completely agree with you that Man of the West is superior to both of those films. It is one of the best westerns ever made, and surely a huge influence on Leone.

I haven't seen The Westerner, but I have it on pre-order. Gregg Toland + William Wyler, how can you go wrong?

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

I've been waiting forever for "The Big Trail" in grandeur. I once watched it years ago on American Movie Classics in letterbox and I refused to buy the flat version that came out on DVD. Lets just hope this 65mm transfer gets better treatment than the Oklahoma! Todd-AO transfer!

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

I can't see how it could be worse than Oklahoma!!

I can't wait to see the widescreen version of The Big Trail as well, and I'm glad they are including the 35mm version, because I never bothered to buy the old edition. I imagine it will be a new transfer, so it should be worthwhile for people who bought the earlier copy.

Curiously, IMDB.COM says that the Grandeur version was restored to 35mm anamorphic prints. I wonder if the DVD transfer will be from that restoration, or is this a new restoration going back to the 70mm negative? Will the transfer be from an optically derived 35mm anamorphic element, or will it be mastered from 70mm? Either way, I am just very pleased that a Grandeur film is being released to DVD.

Raoul Walsh made some interesting CinemaScope films, so The Big Trail in Grandeur is ripe for comparison. I don't think much of Battle Cry, but the exteriors in The Tall Men are brilliant - he goes long shot crazy to emphasise the big and wide screen.

Grandeur was shot on a 70mm negative, but unlike Todd-AO/Super & Ultra Panavision, each frame was 4 instead of 5 perforations high. I believe Sovscope 70 - the 70mm format used in the USSR - also used 70mm negatives and prints, but in a 5 perf high aperture.

It was only U.S. 70mm print systems that decided to used 65mm negatives. Which is kind of strange considering that Todd-AO initially just converted the 70mm Mitchell cameras made for Grandeur and Realife in the 1930s.

King Vidor shot Billy the Kid in MGM's competitor 70mm Realife system, then promptly pleaded with the studios to keep using 70mm. He thought it was far superior to the 35mm Academy format, but it failed to become a standard because (as people like John Belton argue) it was too expensive so soon after the conversion to sound.

This article is fascinating. It is by the cinematographer on The Big Trail, who says:
Well, here we are ~78 years later, but there is still no concerted push for 3D in cinemas as a standard like widescreen. 3D remains a novelty, rather than a common feature of filmmaking. Rather than 70mm, and other widescreen systems, leading to 3D features. In the 1950s widescreen competed against 3D, and seemingly relegated it to its novelty status.

But who knows what the future holds?

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

If only MGM would release BILLY THE KID.
Excellent, informative post Simon. Thank you for posting those links.

I've been comparing my home-recording of the 70mm widescreen broadcast of THE BIG TRAIL to the 35mm full-frame DVD. It is a fine film in both versions. Unless Fox screws up the transfers -- and I can't imagine they would -- film buffs can't go wrong in buying this new special edition. I think most people will find the pictorial values of the 70mm widescreen alternate preferable to the 35mm full-screen, but it's a wonderful film and a rewarding film in either aspect ratio.

It does seem as if the industry has taken two steps backward in evolution. One step backward in terms of aesthetics, with desaturation and murky lighting, and another step backward in terms of technology. Today's audiences are accustomed to poorer quality than yesterday's audiences. Arthur Edeson's hope for widescreen stereoscopic films becoming the standard is more feasible and economical now than ever before, and the only real obstacle to it happening are ignorance and prejudices within the industry. Studio execs and exhibitors should ask themselves, what progress would Walt Disney have made in 1937 if he had listened to warnings that audiences would get headaches from watching a feature-length film in color? To much color or too long an exposure to color will make you go blind. The stereoscopic film faces the same fundamental misunderstanding.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

According to Wikipedia, the original Grandeur negative for Big Trail fell apart in the 60's so I assume they're going to use the CinemaScope version.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

That's what I recall at the time. It only now exists in 35mm Scope.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

It seems to me that many technologies introduced these days are designed to improve production efficiency (i.e. find cheaper ways of doing something) rather than adding novelty. For example, surely 35mm anamorphic (Panavision) cinematography is the highest quality film format still commonly used. But many productions (roughly 1/4 to 1/3) are shot on Super 35, because the image quality is considered good enough. Especially considering most people watch films on TV, rather than at the cinema.

Perhaps CGI sits in the middle of these two motivating factors. On one hand, using CGI to create massive crowd scenes is much cheaper than filming hundreds or thousands of extras. But alternatively, sometimes it seems to me that CGI as special effects are designed to be noticed. They want the audience to be amazed by what the computer artists can do.

I may eat these words, but I don't think 3D will ever take off in a big way until they figure out a system that doesn't require glasses. If they could use holograms or something so the image seems to hang in front of your eyes, but without having to wear something on your head, then I think it will take off, and become a standard.

You mention colour which of course was very high quality (and expensive) when the first full colour system 3 strip Technicolor was introduced. This is a fabulous book on three strip Technicolor style. It argues that the earliest films were all about exhibiting what colour could do, followed by a couple of years of more restrained films that tried to make colour a "normal" feature of Hollywood filmmaking, and then a third, mature stage that tried to find a middle way between these earlier tendencies. The author's point is that a new technology like sound, colour, or widescreen has to offer something that is attractive to audiences to justify its introduction, but the new technology can't be so complex that filmmakers can't find a way to integrate it into pre-existing production norms.

Lastly, I forgot to mention the title of King Vidor's biography: A Tree is a Tree. Because he once requested to film something on location in the south, but was told by his producer "A tree is a tree, go film it in central park".
Any ideas when it was restored to 'Scope?

It's sad the 70mm negative couldn't be saved, but I'm still very excited about this release.
I assume Warner own this. They should hop to it! Fox are leading them in the 70mm 1930s film department 1 - 0

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Saw this on Amazon:

Amazon.com: John Wayne: The Fox Westerns Collection (The Big Trail / North to Alaska / The Comancheros / The Undefeated): John Wayne,Lee Marvin,Rock Hudson,Stewart Granger,Capucine,Ben Johnson,Raoul Walsh,Michael Curtiz,Henry Hathaway: Movies & TV

John Wayne: The Fox Westerns Collection (The Big Trail / North to Alaska / The Comancheros / The Undefeated)

Looks like a good collection for $20, the new Big Trail (anyone know that for sure? I'm hoping it's the same version as the single release as I haerd of no other versions being released.) and a repack of some others.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

The John Wayne set will include five DVDs, the two disc Big Trail, which will be released on the same day, and three John Wayne Fox titles, previously released individually and as a boxset. And, if don't own the latter titles it is a good buy. It will not include the three westerns in the Fox Western Classics Collection.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Thanks for the confirmation on the big trail being the same set! I'm going for this pack since I don't own the others, and I can afford the extra $6!

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

I might do the same as I don't own any of them.

Thanks for the find

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Review of The Big Trail from DVDTalk here

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Good review, but it would've been nice if he included a single frame capture from the 70mm version!

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

DVDSavant was wrong regarding the aspect ratio of Garden of Evil being 2.35:1 rather than 2.55:1. The ratio looks very close to the Region 2 version, it is closer to 2.55:1 than 2.35:1.

Region 1 - Fox version


Region 2 - Optimum Releasing version.


I resized the PAL version down to the NTSC resolution for a fair comparison.

Obviously these aren't identical frames. But it shouldn't matter because it is a static shot. The R1 image is cleaner, some of the grain has gone, and there is a lot of what looks like dirt removed from the image. There seems to be slightly more picture on the left side of the R2 version (a longer shadow), but the difference is so minuscule that I don't think it matters.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Well that's not surprising. DVD Savant's reviews are useless when it comes to seeking accurate information about picture and sound specifications.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Totally.

I think the R1 looks sharper, the R2 looks kind of out of focus. I think I'll eBay it, no need to have 2 versions given that the R1 is at least of equal quality, and has 4.0 audio.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Here are some shots of The Big Trail. Interesting contrast between the widescreen and academy ratios - I know which one I would pick! One realization is that the audio quality does suffer but considering it's age it is expected.






















In hindsight I should have the captures for Man Of The West and Garden Of Evil posted here instead of the other thread. Tomorrow I will put in some images from The Gunfighter.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Wow, thanks Brent. Those shots look spectacular. The bottom one in particular is interesting, they've framed the shot in a way to keep the top of the mountain in the frame.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

With regard to THE BIG TRAIL, it would be interesting compare screen caps of the widescreen version with the full-screen alternate.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

We're sure of this? I ask because the set includes three other previously-released titles, and sometimes the studios have been known to repackage/bundle old stuff when new versions come out...

Anyway, I have my order in for both sets. Just want to make sure I get the new version of The Big Trail. Thanks.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

On the same day this set is released, FOX/MGM will be releasing "The Westerner" with Gary Cooper. There has been a number of very favorable reviews of "The Gunfighter", all well deserved, but I am interested in how the two films compare, and, thought it may not be fair, which is the better of the two westerns.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

The western can be broken down into several different sub-genres.
The Gunfighter is an outlaw ballad.
One might call it the quintessential outlaw ballad.
The Westerner is harder to categorize because it is so many different things at once.
Everyone knows it's a cornerstone of the genre.
They're both brilliant, both indespensible, and both enjoyable in their own way.
There is no better, only personal preferences.
"Better" depends on which type of western fits your pistol.

The latest round of MGM / WHV / Fox releases are all westerns of very high quality.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

They're totally two different type of westerns and I love them both. Both films are excellently acted, written and directed which is all you can ask for from any film. One film evolves around really one main character while the other has two main characters in it.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Just to whet the appetite of those waiting for some or all of these releases - I will add a few shots from the Gunfighter.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Hmm.

The Fox Western Classics box is a no-brainer. I don't own any of these yet and $13.99 is a bargain anyway.

The John Wayne set poses more problems: I already own The Comancheros and North to Alaska. But The Big Trail + The Undefeated is $26 (or $24 somewhere else) and the set being $20+ ... one really has no choice. So I need to write-off the $28 I already payed for the first two, like a subprime mortgage (given).

I wished Fox would give a discount to those not taking the P&S version of the two-disc The Big Trail set!


Cees

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Sell them on eBay. It isn't pan and scan. The film was shot simultaneously on 35mm and 70mm film, the 1.33:1 version is the 35mm version, it isn't a pan and scan of the 70mm version. Raoul Walsh directed both versions, but they used different cinematographers.

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

Interesting. I knew they were created together, but I wasn't aware of the fact that they were actually shot fully separately.
(I should have added a smiley anyway.)

Problem: selling R1 stuff from Europe means higher shipment costs to most of the potential buyers. I'm looking into it, though, because I have the same to consider when trying to sell the SDVDs of which I got an HD version.



Cees

Re: FOX WESTERNS ON MAY - And The Gunfighter is among them!!!!!

The Big Trail, as well as Fox Western Classics and The Westerner, as of yesterday, were in the Fox/MGM buy two, get one free, sale list at DeepDiscount. Like the earlier comment on the John Wayne/Big Trail collection, I had already ordered two of these titles, before the sale, paying more then the DeepDiscount net sales price.