A few words about...™ El Cid - Page 4

Originally Posted by Ric Easton

Well, I'm late to the party and I wish I never showed! I'm so used to "A few words" from RH being good news, that I just kind of let this pass me by, because I thought an HD version may be on the horizon.

I haven't seen this movie in over 25 years and was looking forward to it... Now, not so much. A big disappointment that I will probably pick up anyway (or at least rent, if I can find it), now, for the story... not so much the presentation. A real lost opportunity.

Originally Posted by Simon Howson

It is still worth buying, at least in the regular set.

It certainly isn't the definitive SD-DVD release we all craved. But it is still up there as probably the best it will ever look on DVD.

Originally Posted by Billy Fogerty

I rented this film from the. Are we talking about the same film? The transfer looked awful. It was not DD5.1. It was not anamorphic.. There was no studio name on the disc, except the word Garrys. Also under the words El Cid there was chinese or japanese writing, I would assume was the title. I thought El Cid was a restored and pristene release.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

I really tried to like this presentation, but it fell flat visually at every turn.

I first sampled the discs on a 30" HD Sony XBR in my office that I use as a reference. I attempted viewing the disc first via a normal SD player, and then via a Toshiba HD. On both, the image looked too soft for a modern DVD, and color was far from acceptable.

Last night I tried again.

Initially through a properly tuned Lexicon SD player, and then through both HD as well as BD players.

The image that hit my screen was the same, only now on a larger surface the problems were exacerbated.

What I perceive to be the first reel has a shading problem. By that I mean that the image is weak on the left side, with a total lack of black or contrast. My bet would be a field illumination problem during the manufacture of the 35mm element -- not uncommon when optically reduction printing from large format.

While it seemed to go away in reel two (I have not yet had the time to go back and see if it returned in later reels), the color remained flat, the image weak, undefined and more or less unacceptable.

The overall look of the video effort has the appearance of being digitally cleaned a bit, and smoothed for a more pleasant look with the removal of all high frequency information, and then sharpening, which has added the normal EE lines around most everything.

There are scenes which have wide vistas such as a shot of a castle which then pans down a hillside. Color is weak. Detail is non-existent. Greens and browns have turned murky.

A similar scene on a bridge not far into the film has a similar appearance. Underexposed, with blown out skies and no detail.

The pity here is that it's obvious that work went into this product, but what has come out the other end no longer has the feel of a large format epic.

I have no personal knowledge regarding the original elements, but from the most general basis, the OCN should not be faded, and a superior transfer should be attainable by simply running the original negative to an IP and transferring the resultant element in 8 perf Technirama.

For some reason, which makes little sense to me, there has been a huge loss of information in the simple process of creating a 35mm transfer element.

I'll say it again.

I really wanted to like this release, but to my eye, there is little left of the film to make it anything special. Sometimes we're better staying with positive memories.

I should add that the smoothing and removal of high frequency information may only affect an SD release, and a high definition version might look superior, although I have my doubts regarding the film elements.

RAH

Originally Posted by Richard--W

The single most important DVD release of the year, and the Weinstein organization has treated it like just any old B movie.

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

I think that's a bit harsh, considering the effort that has been put into the extras, which I think are excellent. The transfer isn't the best - the day-for-night shots during the various battles for Valencia are especially unsatisfactory - but given the problems that have always surrounded the Bronston catalogue I think this El Cid is pretty good.

For me, the single biggest annoyance is the division of the two discs - having the Entr'acte on Disc 1 and Part 2 starting on Disc 2 is a terrible aesthetic mistake which I hope isn't repeated on Fall.

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

I think that's a bit harsh, considering the effort that has been put into the extras, which I think are excellent. The transfer isn't the best - the day-for-night shots during the various battles for Valencia are especially unsatisfactory - but given the problems that have always surrounded the Bronston catalogue I think this El Cid is pretty good.

For me, the single biggest annoyance is the division of the two discs - having the Entr'acte on Disc 1 and Part 2 starting on Disc 2 is a terrible aesthetic mistake which I hope isn't repeated on Fall.

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Home video is all about the film. Like most people I buy DVD's for the film itself, not for the packaging, and certainly not for the supplements. I cannot imagine anyone buying a DVD for the package or supplements, and not giving priority to how the film is restored / transferred / mastered / authored. Picture and sound quality are everything. The rest is an extra I can take or leave. If DVD's were sold in paper sleeves, I would not be disappointed, providing that the film looks the way it should. EL CID exposes a laziness, a lack of caring, and an unprofessionalism on the part of the Weinstein organization that reflects very badly on that company within the industry. They know it now, too.

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

I think that's a bit harsh, considering the effort that has been put into the extras, which I think are excellent. The transfer isn't the best - the day-for-night shots during the various battles for Valencia are especially unsatisfactory - but given the problems that have always surrounded the Bronston catalogue I think this El Cid is pretty good.

For me, the single biggest annoyance is the division of the two discs - having the Entr'acte on Disc 1 and Part 2 starting on Disc 2 is a terrible aesthetic mistake which I hope isn't repeated on Fall.

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford

I agree that some that some of the comments were extreme and would have little effect on correcting the problems with this release for a future BR release because frankly, some of them were darn right insulting to say the least.

Crawdaddy

Originally Posted by OliverK

John,

I am most intrigued by your mentioning of the BR release of Ben Hur. Has there been something more definitive from Warner other than that we all expect to see Ben Hur on BR on its 60th anniversary ?

Oliver

Originally Posted by john a hunter

OliverK, Warners in their big February announcement said that we would get Ben Hur as well as HTWWW in the next 2 years. I think HTWWW as been scheduled for September next.No date for Ben yet but likely next year for its 50th anniversary.

Originally Posted by OliverK

And thanks for mentioning that book by Derek Elley, I just snatched a copy up on amazon for one cent

I could not belive the price but there it was and I thought I probably could not go wrong with it

Oliver

Originally Posted by Robin9

You can't go wrong with Derek Elley's book at any price. It is one of the best books ever written about a particular movie genre. I bought my copy when the book first came out, and I dip into it after watching any "epic" or "biblical" or historical movie.

Originally Posted by Robin9

You can't go wrong with Derek Elley's book at any price. It is one of the best books ever written about a particular movie genre.

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

I had lunch with Mr Elley yesterday, gave him the new El Cid and just had an email from him praising the extras to the skies. He's delighted his epic book still has some currency - but one cent for all that work?

Originally Posted by john a hunter

OliverK, I'm pleased for you as you are going to have a good read. Shame it is not better known and has not been updated.I find it invaluable and like Robin9, it comes out before any"epic"screening. Let's have your comments in due course.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

I'll take this one step further.

If the owners truly have no interest in properly parenting these films, and can come up with a reasonable number, I'll buy them, take care of them, and show them precisely what one can do with them on home video, cable, etc., and in editions that will have viewers heads spinning.

I can't make it more simple than that.

RAH

Originally Posted by Simon Howson

If these versions don't sell well, then no company will put up the cash to preserve the films properly for blu-ray, or theatrical re-release.