Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay! - Page 5  

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Huh? VHS was certainly a formidable format, one that took a long time to beat. With declining DVD sales, it would seem that hi-def certainly has a fighting chance to escape niche status.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

The source was a conversation I had with Vilmos Zsigmond the director of photography for Close Encounters.

He was working on a film that I was on as well. A friend of mine, who was also on the picture, bought Close Encounters for a friend's birthday at the studio store at Sony and asked Zsigmond to sign it. The single disc version happened to be the only version available. Zsigmond singed it but commented that this wasn't the good version. I asked what he meant and he said that neither Spielberg nor he had approved the single disc release and that they had only ever wanted the two disc set to be available.

Yes Spielberg approved of and participated in the blu-ray release of Close Encounters. I suspect that he felt that if he didn't they would just release it anyway and he wouldn't have any control over it at all.

Doug

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

As I recall, the masses (my friends and family who aren't movie nuts like me) didn't start buying DVD players until the Apex players hit Walmart for under $100. I believe this was around 2001.

Doug

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

That doesn't sound right. I did purchase the Sony 7000 near launch, but I remember several players to choose from, I think the Panasonic A100, RCA, and Toshiba 2006 were launch players that sold for around $500.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

January 11, 1997 -

The first player models arrived in the United States Toshiba SD-2006 ($600), Samsung DVD-705 ($750), RCA RC-5200P ($600). Pioneer DVL-700 ($1000), Sony DVP-S7000 ($1000), Panasonic DVD-A100 ($600), Faroudja DV-1000 ($5495 w/ DTS), but all sit in stockrooms while the battle over copyright protection continues.

From; DVDFILE.COM: Special Report - DVD Historical Timeline

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

HD DVD will not become a niche item Here is my reasoning.

1) HD-DVD does not provide any additional benefits to the consumer versus Blu-ray. There is no business sense to have two formats that provide no difference in benefit. Do not talk about price. There is not enough difference in hardware and no difference in disc price.
2) The only reason HD-DVD is around is due to Microsoft HDI. The consumer sees no difference.
3) For a niche market you need to have a reason. PSP for example is size poratability.

Give me one reason to go buy HD-DVD versus Blu-ray 2.0? Please do not use price, since Toshiba can not continue to lose money to manufacture players.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Yup, faulty memory on my part, I forgot about the Panasonic A100 and Toshiba 2006 which were available in Michigan during the second half of 1997 for around $600-700 range. However, the waiting list for the Sony-7000 was real and were in short supply during the Fall months. Luckily, I was able to buy one in the summer due to a store going out of business and them selling off their stock for $799.99 per unit.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

And the A100 was a very robust machine. I used it as my primary player for 4 years, it became a secondary player in my house for another 5 until finally I sold it at a garage sale last August. It was still working perfectly.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

IMHO that was the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling la la la I can't hear you stop talking. Or they might as well be the child sulking in the corner pissed off because mommy will not take them to McDonalds. You would have thought that Toshiba would have had a strong response by now instead of this pathetic press release we have heard so far. All I have heard is oh we are the best choice for the consumer and we still do not know what to do about WB leaving. The only thing this says to me is that Toshiba is looking to take HDM down with them, that is the impression they are giving me. It is going to be 1 month soon since WB made there announcement, and Toshiba still has not gotten around to dealing with it. They haven't been able to figure that out yet? That tells me that they are in more trouble than they are willing to admit because they know they could loose there remaining support if they do.

Anyway Graffeo's response was as weak as Toshiba's was a few weeks ago, it was like drinking a warm flat beer.

The simple fact that Toshiba will not accept is that price will not win the format war alone, especially when you will only have two major studios behind you. And what makes it worse is that more and more people are finding out about it faster than they would have 10 years ago. People are reading about it and seeing it on MSNBC and CNN and they feel that HD-DVD is done and Toshiba still will not give up stating that they are the best choice for the consumer. Well IMHO it looks like a large percentage of consumers are not willing to support HD-DVD anymore. Not after WB made there anouncement and said they where going Blu-ray only. The writting is on the wall and Toshiba does not want to see it, and they are not doing so well at addressing those problems ether. Otherwise they would have figured out what they where going to do about WB by now.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Actually, I think Toshiba quite clearly knows what it wants, now that they know that they cannot win the HDM war. Which is why, they would much rather see HDM die than let Blu-Ray win. Why would Toshiba want that? Quite simply because they would be the biggest losers if DVD were to be replaced by Blu-Ray, since they hold the maximum patents on DVD. Having already given up any potential profits from HD-DVD hardware and now with the death of HD-DVD looking immenent, Toshiba's strategy is now to prolong the popularity of DVD, which also explains their new focus on the 'upscaling' features of their HD-DVD players. In short, Toshiba would much rather see HDM die than let Blu-Ray win. The unfortunate part is that Universal, Paramount and some fans still cannot see Toshiba's hidden agenda.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Mark's points are legitimate, but my own answer is different.

People still ask me that question, in one form or another, and my answer hasn't changed in two years: There isn't a compelling reason to go with either format right now. Wait. Indeed, that was what I was doing until last fall's EMA conference left me in the unexpected position of owning players for both formats.

But if one is determined to move into HDM at this point in time, then I think the question is wrongly phrased. It's not a matter of "HD-DVD versus Blu-ray 2.0" -- and leave out price. To me, it's more obviously a question of why wouldn't you go dual-format at today's prices for HD DVD players? If one is going to make the initial outlay for HDM at this still-early stage, why not spring for the minimal extra to allow you to play anything you want in whatever format it's released? Leave the ideological debates and corporate strategizing to others, and enjoy films in the best home video presentations available so far.

To me, this is a no-brainer, but I recognize not everyone shares this point of view.

M.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

The only reason I can think of, and the one that applies to me, is that I don't want to contribute to a continuing format war. The sooner it's over, the happier I'll be, and if I go buy an hd-dvd player to go along with my blu-ray, while I will have gained the ability to play hd-dvds, I will have done my little part to boost hd-dvd numbers and keep it around, extending the format war.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Just not enough to sit on the sidelines?

I always thought that, if everyone refused to buy into any format until the industry stopped behaving foolishly and came to terms on a single standard, we'd have that single standard very quickly. So, contrary to my "bleeding edge" habits of many years, I refused even to look at the new hardware -- that is, until some of it was thrust upon me.

Didn't work, did it? Of course not. The marketplace never works that way. That's why I'm a lot less sanguine than others about our ability to predict (or direct) the future. So I've resigned myself to dealing with the here and now, at least when it comes to things like these that aren't matters of life and death ("pieces of cake", as your sig quote says).

M.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Like I said, when people ask me, my advice is always, first and foremost: Wait and buy nothing yet.

M.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

I returned the A3 I bought right before Christmas as soon as Warner made their announcement, so I'm back on the sidelines. Blu-Ray is still a little pricey and not nearly enough of my favorites or the kinds of movies I most enjoy watching are available in HDM.

While I loved watching The Searchers in HD and was looking forward to some Kubricks (I had A Clockwork Orange and EWS but never opened them), when I enabled my Netflix queue for HD-DVD, out of 350 movies or so, 6! count 'em 6, were available on HD-DVD! While $200 isn't that much in the grand scheme of things, if only 2% of my movie watching is going to be in HD, why bother? (I already had an upscaling DVD player)

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

What made you so unhappy about the format war? Was it those incessant BOGOs that seemed to keep popping up? Perhaps it was the dramatic price reductions over the past year as both formats competed fiercely for our dollars.

You bought a Blu-ray player presumably to watch movies in Hi-def and, no doubt, paid a pretty penny for it. Two months ago you could have bought a Toshiba HD-A2 for $98 and received 5 free HD-DVD movies. For less than $100 you could have access to hundreds of Hi-Def movies at Netflix. Why can't it just be about the sheer enjoyment of watching movies in Hi-Def no matter what format? Why this devotion to one format over the other? Is more enjoyment derived from the technical presentation than from the film itself??? I just don't understand.

I'm not attacking you. I've been buying CE for the past 45 years and I have never witnessed this much animosity between competing formats.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

While I made my hardware decision before the big announcement, I have to think about an abandoned format that still sits in my HT setup - my laserdisc player.

Virtually all of my laserdiscs have been replaced with some superior looking DVD's, but I still have several laserdiscs with exclusive content and unresolved rights that prevent their reissue on DVD or whatever HDM format is here or not, despite the fact that laserdisc has been effectively dead for about six years now. I can even make DVD's out of them at my convenience before my player finally bites the dust.

We are investing in an impulse product, people. When was the last time any of you watched new release movies you bought 3 or 4 years ago, and how many times have you double/triple-dipped to get that extra 5 minutes of goodies or a new commentary that you may or may not find useful or entertaining? The number of uber-special editions that warrant the collectability of some of these titles is very slim indeed. Anything else is pure marketing by the studios to promote some other product.

I would rather see this format over sooner than later.

In the (sic) words of Tommy Lee Jones in Men In Black: "See this, kid? It's gonna replace CD's...now I'll have to buy the White Album again..."

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

This is an appropriate (rhetorical) question IMO. I think of this issue often when trying to better understand the, to put it charitably, "passions" some have brought to the debates. At the risk of doing the equivalent of entering a church and speaking heresy, I have a theory that there is an intersection between those who do indeed look at home theater more as a vehicle for PQ and AQ enjoyment than film appreciation and those who have difficulty simply viewing HD movies as such regardless of "color." I'm thinking of those who proactively chose to not go out and see movies--ya' know, in a theater--anymore, with all the communal wonders and annoyances that inhere in that ritual, but instead wait for everything to come to DVD.

I think there might be a fundamentally different perspective/investment in the format "war" from some of the people in the latter "camp."

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Has anyone seen this hail mary from Toshiba for the Super Bowl?

Toshiba Plans HD DVD Super Bowl Spot | High-Def Digest

(Ah, was posted in the Warners thread, but this is the more appropriate thread.)

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

I can think of one excellent point for buying into HD-DVD and that reason is contained in a picture just below your handle. Drum roll please....FORBIDDEN PLANET.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

A year ago I had no problem going format neutral and buying movies on ether format. The one big thing I did not like then and now, is that over half of the HD-DVD titles only had Dolby Digital Plus. With money also going into a fund to upgrade my ht, I can not afford to double dip on these HD titles. It would be very frustrating to buy a title with DD+ and then have the lossless edition come out one or two years later.





It is actually sad how Toshiba is willing to pull a scorched earth approch reguarding HDM. They will continue to receive revenue for SD-DVD for many years to come, DVD is not going anywhere for the forseable future. So for Toshiba to insist on running Blu-ray into the ground just because HD-DVD is not going to win is the most childish thing I have ever seen. This is beyond shrewd business practicess, this is boardering vendictive behavor. They might as well just come out and say if we can not have the HD market, where dam sure gonna make sure you can't have it ether! They have sunk millions into a product that is loosing and there only way to deal with it is that of a spoild child. I was going to continue to buy titles on HD-DVD that I really had to have that where not on Blu-ray. But why should Toshiba profit from there horible behavor? Why should I spend money on HD-DVD's and help Toshiba? These are just two of the questions I am asking myself as I am looking to upgrade my first generation HD-DVD player. I am seriously considering canceling the upgrade to the A35 and canceling the purchase of any HD-DVD from now on.

The format was did alot for driving down the price of hardware and helped push hardware manufactures to include the more advanced features in there Blu-ray players. It most likely kept prices of HDM down and allowed for BOGO sales on HDM to help many of us to buy more HD titles than we would have other wise. So I had no problem with the format war in the past but now with only two studios on HD-DVD's side, its time for it to end. All I know is that if Blu-ray holds its majority lead over HD-DVD and Universal and Paramount will not be able stay HD-DVD exclusive for long. Outside pressures from consumers, the BDA and parent companies of these studios will eventually force them to go Blu. Weather Toshiba likes it or not it will happen!

Another reason I am not for HD-DVD anymore is that they can not guarentee lossless audio on there titles. When I can buy lossless on Blu-ray most of the time why whould I want a lossy version on HD-DVD?



Oh I love this, can you imagine what Toshiba is going to try and bs consumers into believing during there Super Bowl spot? You know that they are not going to say "Toshiba HD-DVD with superior 1080p picture, lossless sound, the most advanced features ever offered and with only two studios to choose from your choice is clear...... HD-DVD. Or are they going to actually attack Blu-ray head on and say that the consumer should buy HD-DVD because it's picture and sound is superior to Blu-ray. It is better even though Blu-ray can store more HD content, Blu-ray can stream more data, that HD-DVD is better even though over half the titles do not have lossless audio and oh lets not forget the super jinormous catalog HD-DVD has to offer after WB stops offering HD-DVD titles. You know Toshiba is not even going to mention WB stepping away from HD-DVD in may and they will not even tell consumers up front that Paramount and Universal is there only supporting studio's. How bloody missleading can Toshiba get before it gets down right criminal?



Lets get one thing straight, and that is I am glad I purchased my HD-DVD player and I will continue to enjoy the titles I allready own for many more years to come! The video performance of HD-DVD is awsum and I can not think of any of my titles that I would dump because of poor video quality. And while I am not big on DD+ I find it a welcome improvement over the lacking standard DD. The titles with Dolby True HD on HD-DVD however will not be replaced with Blu-ray versions anytime soon. They will remain in my HD library for as long as I can play them. My main beef with HD-DVD is the format limitation that limits the number of lossless audio titles. And the way Toshiba has been acting these past few weeks. If Toshiba continues down this road and insists on taking down Blu-ray even though they know there format is failing. They are not going have many friends left in the industry after the smoke clears. They are basically taking a dump on the industry and I am sure they will not forget that anytime soon! If it continues I am done with Toshiba, which means I will not buy a new 1080p HDTV, possible no upgrade to an A35 HD-DVD player, possilbe no future HD-DVD titles added to my library and no future purchases when HD is replaced with SHDTV, aka 4K video. At that point I will discourage anyone and everyone I know to stay away from Toshiba products. Will my actions hurt Toshiba, no but I will not put my money in Toshiba's pockets if they are going to piss on the industry and on the consumer because HD-DVD is not winning the format war!


I am just very passionate about audio / video and I do not like what Toshiba is doing to the industry or the consumer! I just want to watch high quality HD titles and enjoy movies in the best possible presentation possible.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Imagine how I feel =)


Up until two weeks ago that was my advice to people too. Now I recommend they get the cheapest PS3 they can regardless of how big a gamer they are. Even if they DONT game they get an awesome DVD player, a neat console for those in their family who do game, and one of the best BD decks to boot. Even if they are only a CASUAL gamer, PSN has a lot of neat stuff including a ton of free demos. If they have more money than sense I encourage em to buy a $99 HD deck but note that I'm not so sure of that being a long term tool for them as I am the PS3.

And this isnt a hypothetical for me, I have friends and family constantly asking what to pair up to their new flat panels and its a big discussion for my classes as well. And they have just spent a good chunk of change on an awesome display, telling them to watch nothing or SD is just as disengenous/useless of me.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

The advice isn't hypothetical for me either, Sam, but you do raise an interesting point. A lot depends on who's asking.

Personally, I don't agree that telling someone to watch SD on a great new display is a bad idea. SD still looks pretty damn good, especially if the display or the player does a decent job at upconverting. Besides, a lot of the people I talk to are in the same boat as Brook K -- namely, the films that interest them aren't likely to be available in hi-def anytime soon.

In fact, where I am the most varied source of hi-def programming doesn't come in a blue case or a red case. It comes over a cable. And my favorite piece of hi-def hardware wasn't made by the Blu-ray consortium or Toshiba; it came from TiVo. If someone I knew was really keen to get a lot of hi-def content quickly, that's what I'd recommend (after which I'd explain how to deal with TWCable of Manhattan and CableCard -- but that's a subject for another thread ).

M.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Lots of things. But mainly, I remember divx. And I still believe that pay-per-view is the greedy dream of content owners. And I believe that an extended format war increases the chances of pay-per-view download as the only option to watch in the future.

So, yeah, I could just buy both, and enjoy low prices and then one day...wham, no more physical media. Happy days for Microsoft...sad days for movie fans.

I don't expect you to agree, but you asked, so there it is.

First, price isn't a big deal to me. Sure I want movies and equipment as cheaply as possible, but I don't balk at paying for something I want. Second, as I said above, I want to own the films, so Netflix is of little interest to me aside from renting something I've never seen. If I've seen it and like it, I want to own it, pay for it once and watch it whenever I want, as often as I want, with no additional payment. I was completely format neutral until Paramount's move to extend the format war, which I vehemently oppose, and which pushed me to take sides.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

For the umpteenth time, this is not a "format limitation." It is a studio decision that goes to politics which were an issue in the SD DVD era, too. The reason there's so much PCM on BD is not because it's part of the format spec; it's because it's free for the releasing studio.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Same here. No reason to "wait" or buy any new DVD-players. Just get that damn HD-player.

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Piss? Are you sure they weren't, uhm, watering out the smouldering earth?

Oh well, come on, Dave. You're taking this much too far!

I currently own several fine Toshiba products (among which a still flawlessly working first generation DVD player, a ditto HD DVD player and one of the finest mini-notebooks available) and I think they're a very decent and fruitful company.

Never experienced that. Have you regularly be reading ads, BTW? Criminal?

That's your right, but I won't, on the contrary. (Assuming you mean you're going to discourage people to come near their products - which is the opposite from what you're saying. If you meant what you wrote, I agree, of course).

Sorry, Dave, but that seems hardly an excuse for your gross exaggerations. Your posts are long, but many of us are willing to read them, as long as they stay realistic.


Cees

Re: Universal's Graffeo: HD DVD is here to stay!

Hey Cees,


Believe me CCees I am not trying to say that Toshiba products suck. I fact I can agree that Toshiba makes some very good products. The TV that my Sony HDTV replaced was a 11 year old 31" Toshiba CRT. That went through 4 moves and gave out after coming to Arizona. Other than my HD-A1 being a little quirky which I have accepted being a first generation player. It produces very good sound and great video as well. And I do like the picture on there 1080p HDTV's as well. Toshiba makes very good product, my problem is there actions as of late not the product itself.


And that is your right to do so as well. I am just not to thrilled about how Toshiba seems to be hell bent on taking down HDM just because they can not win the format war. So I personally do not see any reason to reward them by buying there product at that point. I have not gotten to that point yet and I was making an observation. I realize that I may have done a poor job of getting that across and I apologize. One of the things I do after I get home from bust my rear delivering appliances all day is relax by coming to this site and read up on what is happening. So needless to say there are days when I am really tired and I may not get things across very well, no one is perfect.


I may have exaggerated slightly but to say that I am grossly exaggerating is kind of insulting. Again my problem is not with Toshiba products it is in the way Toshiba is pushing this format war. Its not a gross exaggeration saying that they only have two studios behind them. Because after May they will basically only have two major studios behind them. If Toshiba runs an ad during the Super Bowl not mentioning there lack of studio support. If they make it look like they have alot of support and Toshiba trying get people to buy into a format when there choices of titles is limited. That is borderline criminal in my book. Now is it a actual crime, no but I said it to get a point across and like I stated above I may have done a poor job at it. But you have to admit they are doing everything to prolong the war and by doing so they are not helping the industry, retailers or the consumer.



I own a good number of HD-DVD's and I do love watching them as much as I love watching the Blu-ray's I own. I have less reasons to buy HD-DVD's lately especially since there is not much to choose from in regards to new releases. There are a few titles I would like to own on HD-DVD like White Noise and the upcoming Jack Ryan collection, especially if all 4 titles have Dolby True HD on them. Blu-ray on the other hand has alot more titles coming out, but that is not anything we already do not know.

The one thing I have always liked about HTF is that even when people do not agree they stay civil about it. This does not seem to be happening at other websites and that is a shame. If someone does not agree that is fine but no one should ever be insulted for there beliefs even if they seem a little extreme. I have allway found the information and recomendations at HTF to be very helpful. It is one of the best sources for keeping on top of whats going on in home theater.

I do hope Toshiba is not overly misleading with there Super Bowl commercial. And I hope that it is not there intention to damage HDM as they slowly loose the format war. If HD-DVD was winning I would have no problem supporting them instead of Blu-ray. And I would most likely have more HD-DVD in my collection than Blu-ray if the situation was reversed. It is a little frustrating when the war should be over but it drags on and on with no end in site. We all know it will end , but when? And I honestly feel that Universal and Paramount are just as guilty for prolonging this war. I also feel that the consumer and the industry would be better off with one format. But I am going to end this here as I just realized I am dragging this response out, and I apologize for that.