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The Official Star Trek Music Discussion Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 87
3/8/08 at 8:11pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Thanks for keeping an eye out for those Symphonic Suites Vol 1 and 2, Scott. There is a Volume 1 on Amazon, but the seller is asking $137 for it!
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post #32 of 87
3/8/08 at 8:43pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

I was very fortunate to come upon the Symphonic Suites when they were first released. I had developed a love for film music at an early age. My parents were aware of this and bought the Cage / Where No Man Has Gone Before score for me as my first CD one Christmas! They may not be the origonal cues, but in suite form they are a very enjoyable experience. The Conscience Of The King contains passages not used in the episode.
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post #33 of 87
10/18/08 at 10:31am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Scott- In case you're still monitoring this thread, I finally got copies of those Star Trek soundtracks from Crescendo, Volumes 1, 2 and 3 earlier this week. I had to buy them separately as the box set was no longer available.

I also picked up the other two volumes from Varese Sarabande newly recorded music, Mirror and Charlie X, etc a few months ago. And as I said above, I have those recordings from label X that I picked up years ago and with the help of another member, I have Volume One from that collection finally!

I have the vinyl LP of The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone before so I was familiar with this recording and it was fun to hear it again! One of my favorite tracks is the very last one, #35. It's never heard on the show, but it's got a cool Western sound to it.

Volume Two was totally new to me. And that was really cool to hear. I have not heard such a clean recording of the Star Trek main title and it was without Shatner's narration. The cool thing about this set is that I never heard these particular scores without the dialogue and sound effects. So One or two short passages sounded different to me in Doomsday Machine. Like when McCoy and Decker first beam back to the Enterprise and they rush to the bridge. Track 6, it starts the same right after the commercial break, then there's a 3 or 4 second passage that's different, from 2 seconds in to about 5 seconds, then it sounds like what I'm used to hearing. I think it was masked by dialogue. I'll have to watch the episode again!

Amok Time is fantastic! It's great to hear all that score without the dialogue and sound effects! The writing and performance is terrific to hear, like for the first time. It was such a totally new sound too. I hope Gerald Fried got recognition for the work, the use of instrumentation was so unique. Made me wonder if the psychedelic music of the time or was it jazz that had any influence. Same for Sol Kaplan for creating an equally iconic piece that is so identified with The Doomsday Machine.

Makes me hope that Giacchino will be able to do a score as distinctive and unique.

I'll listen to Volume 3 later today.

On those Varese Sarabande two volumes, I thought they were okay. Not as good to listen to because they weren't exactly the real thing. But also because they only have short segments. But then I only listened to it once.

I thought the Label X recordings were better because they recreated all the score for that whole episode and blended it together as a suite. I guess that's what makes the first 3 volumes from Crescendo so much more enjoyable, it's the whole show.
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post #34 of 87
10/18/08 at 11:37am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

Any chance of seeing this back up again? Would love to hear it.
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post #35 of 87
10/18/08 at 11:38am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

double post
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post #36 of 87
10/18/08 at 11:52am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

I used Leonard Rosenman's end title fanfare from The Voyage Home as the recessional music for my wedding. BTW--my wife and I are celebrating ten years on Monday, Oct. 20th!
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post #37 of 87
10/18/08 at 12:34pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPla
Any chance of seeing this back up again? Would love to hear it.

Good thing I happened to have seen this thread on the main 'entertainment and media' page otherwise I wouldn't have seen this.

No problem, I'll dig it up and send it out.

EDIT:

Here it is, along with a few other things:

TNG Alternate and others
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post #38 of 87
10/18/08 at 3:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott- In case you're still monitoring this thread, I finally got copies of those Star Trek soundtracks from Crescendo, Volumes 1, 2 and 3 earlier this week. I had to buy them separately as the box set was no longer available.

I also picked up the other two volumes from Varese Sarabande newly recorded music, Mirror and Charlie X, etc a few months ago. And as I said above, I have those recordings from label X that I picked up years ago and with the help of another member, I have Volume One from that collection finally!

I have the vinyl LP of The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone before so I was familiar with this recording and it was fun to hear it again! One of my favorite tracks is the very last one, #35. It's never heard on the show, but it's got a cool Western sound to it.

Volume Two was totally new to me. And that was really cool to hear. I have not heard such a clean recording of the Star Trek main title and it was without Shatner's narration. The cool thing about this set is that I never heard these particular scores without the dialogue and sound effects. So One or two short passages sounded different to me in Doomsday Machine. Like when McCoy and Decker first beam back to the Enterprise and they rush to the bridge. Track 6, it starts the same right after the commercial break, then there's a 3 or 4 second passage that's different, from 2 seconds in to about 5 seconds, then it sounds like what I'm used to hearing. I think it was masked by dialogue. I'll have to watch the episode again!

Amok Time is fantastic! It's great to hear all that score without the dialogue and sound effects! The writing and performance is terrific to hear, like for the first time. It was such a totally new sound too. I hope Gerald Fried got recognition for the work, the use of instrumentation was so unique. Made me wonder if the psychedelic music of the time or was it jazz that had any influence. Same for Sol Kaplan for creating an equally iconic piece that is so identified with The Doomsday Machine.

Makes me hope that Giacchino will be able to do a score as distinctive and unique.

I'll listen to Volume 3 later today.

On those Varese Sarabande two volumes, I thought they were okay. Not as good to listen to because they weren't exactly the real thing. But also because they only have short segments. But then I only listened to it once.

I thought the Label X recordings were better because they recreated all the score for that whole episode and blended it together as a suite. I guess that's what makes the first 3 volumes from Crescendo so much more enjoyable, it's the whole show.
Nelson,

Congratulations on obtaining the discs! That's great. I think I told you that I too have the three-disc boxed set as well as the two additional discs that you mention above.

Yeah, those three volumes from Crescendo are the cream of the crop, for sure. I don't know if I have any favorites; I tend to listen to them when I am exercising (rebounding) in our library. I never (and never will) tire of those superb recordings. Since the music is part of a stock vocabulary in many instances (I realize that there are exceptions to this), the images that one conjures up in their mind's eye when listening to the music are numerous, even when the piece of music is identical. To cite one example, the pizzicato string work that occurs in This Side Of Paradise (occurring immediately after the oft-referred to line by me of Kirk: "Gentleman, we're debating in a vacuum; let's go get some answers") is used as well in Charlie X and in Operation: Annihilate! as the landing party moves inward toward the city. I love this music so much that I bought the music to Charlie X just to have that excerpt.

I may have mentioned this before, but the sound effects overlayed with the music (or the inverse, if you will) is very eerie/ethereal/other-worldly in some instances. For example, I'm speaking specifically of the instance where the awesome chordal string work which occurs in Space Seed (it is during the completion of the beam over to the Botany Bay) is coupled with the transporter sound effect (this happens only once in the entire run of TOS); it's such an incredible juxtaposition. The colors that are achieved by that particular combination are gorgeous. (BTW, it's the same music used when Charlie disappears after the appearance of the Thasian; however, all are on the Bridge, so there is no need for the sound effect of the transporter.) This is the same excerpt of music that I have on occasion written about in relation to the VOY episode Time and Again. The harmonic succession is not identical, but it is an uncannily similar progression and appears to use similar instruments texture-wise. I hope you have a chance to give both of these excerpts a comparative listening one day.

I may also have mentioned that I picked up a rare copy of the Star Trek library of sound effects. This CD is jam-packed with just about every sound effect ever heard on the show. It was a wonderful purchase.

BTW, speaking of Fried--

During the Scary Movie Challenge, one of the films I watched was I Bury the Living. My eldest son, who really has no musical training to speak of (except that he lives with his mother, a bassoonist, and his father, a harpsichordist ) commented on how the score to that film sounds like Star Trek. (By Star Trek, he means TOS, since he said 'Kirk'--LOL.) I thought that that observation of his was quite interesting.

Man, G. Fried sure was prolific:

Gerald Fried
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post #39 of 87
10/18/08 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter McM
I used Leonard Rosenman's end title fanfare from The Voyage Home as the recessional music for my wedding. BTW--my wife and I are celebrating ten years on Monday, Oct. 20th!
Peter,

That's great (the recessional music).

BTW, congratulations on your anniversary.
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post #40 of 87
10/19/08 at 11:37am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Hey Scott! Yes, your earlier comments were what pushed me over the edge to finally buy the first 3 volumes. I wished I had earlier. I had the first volume, The Cage, WNMHGB on vinyl. But I never realized that the other 2 were the real things and thus, made them so unique, and as of now, so scarce as the other scores are not available. Wished that somehow they could be made available.

You've mentioned those cues before from This side of Paradise and Space Seed. I agree, they're cool. I also wished that the Mudd's Women portion of that other disc was more faithful as I really liked how that episode's score was so magical. Especially at the end when there is a harp used and as you said, it blends into the sound effects and there's an added element to the sound!

Wow, using Star Trek music at a wedding, if I ever get lucky and find the right woman, I don't know if I could get way with that! Not that I'd want to use Trek music at a wedding... Yes, congrates on your anniversary!
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post #41 of 87
10/19/08 at 12:13pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
Good thing I happened to have seen this thread on the main 'entertainment and media' page otherwise I wouldn't have seen this.

No problem, I'll dig it up and send it out.

EDIT:

Here it is, along with a few other things:

TNG Alternate and others

Amazing! Thanks Nicholas! I love hearing what could of been.
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post #42 of 87
10/19/08 at 1:00pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

I added a custom edit of the Goldsmith version, made using the "Motion Picture" theme because the McCarty-arranged version was always so cheesy in comparison to any and all of Goldsmith's arrangements made for the different films.
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post #43 of 87
11/24/08 at 2:23pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.
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post #44 of 87
11/24/08 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.
Nelson,

Nice observation there. I will have a listen to this. I am at work now (and am until 10 p.m.); I won't be able to get to this for a few days. But I will definitely have a listen to the "Approach of Enterprise" track and get back to you. Thanks for the tidbit.
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post #45 of 87
11/24/08 at 3:06pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Hey Scott- take your time, working late?

I realized in the first paragraph of my post, I didn't clearly say the Doomsday Machine teaser had the similar music to the Menagerie Part 2 act one, but I think you go it!
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post #46 of 87
11/24/08 at 5:18pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Hey Scott- take your time, working late?

I realized in the first paragraph of my post, I didn't clearly say the Doomsday Machine teaser had the similar music to the Menagerie Part 2 act one, but I think you go it!
Nelson,

Yep, until 10 p.m.

When you say 'teaser,' are you in this case speaking of the trailer to the episode, or something else? Thanks.
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post #47 of 87
11/24/08 at 5:44pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

The teaser is the pre-title sequence.
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post #48 of 87
11/24/08 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The teaser is the pre-title sequence.
"No it isn't!" (Sorry--I couldn't resist a little Charlie Evans voicework there. )

Okay, thanks. I just wanted to be sure I understood the term.
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post #49 of 87
11/24/08 at 5:54pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

You're welcome! I've heard it called that, not sure if there is another proper term for it.
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post #50 of 87
11/24/08 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.
Nelson,

What was the exact question you had regarding your post? Whether the music is the same or not? Thanks.
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post #51 of 87
11/24/08 at 7:31pm

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Scott, I was afraid the question might have been a little unclear.

What my friend discovered was the music used at the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, appeared to be the same music from The Doomsday Machine at the start of the teaser. What is odd, is that the music used sounds like it was written for The Doomsday Machine, so how could it have been in The Menagerie, Part 2.

When I checked it out, it does indeed sound the same, however, the version used in The Doomsday Machine sounds like there are a few more notes used towards the end of that piece. Hope that might make it clearer.
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post #52 of 87
11/24/08 at 8:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott, I was afraid the question might have been a little unclear.

What my friend discovered was the music used at the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, appeared to be the same music from The Doomsday Machine at the start of the teaser. What is odd, is that the music used sounds like it was written for The Doomsday Machine, so how could it have been in The Menagerie, Part 2.

When I checked it out, it does indeed sound the same, however, the version used in The Doomsday Machine sounds like there are a few more notes used towards the end of that piece. Hope that might make it clearer.
Nelson,

Okay, I think I understand what you're curious about. Thanks. I will have to listen to both. I'll see what I can find out.

Addendum: I watched the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie (pt. 2) last night, and followed that with the teaser to The Doomsday Machine. I have yet to listen to the Approach of Enterprise, the Constellation (on vol. 2 in my boxed set); once I do, maybe I can zero in on the segments you're curious about.

Okay, I had a chance to hear these segments. Interesting. It makes sense that they would reuse the tracks, and the default metadata/credits are not always complete. If they are distinct (that is to say, alternative takes), then that is a find. On a related note, The Menagerie (pt. 2) vs. The Cage -- what or whose music (if any) was used on the unretouched pilot?

I am thinking that as a work made for hire (copyright immediately to the studio, not held by the composer), Kaplan's engagement with the pilot project might have come later. It is datable, I suppose. Also, when the (recovered) pilot footage was later released, the music overlay might have been from tracks created in production for the episodes that would only be natural and expected--that is to say, it would add to the "look and feel" of the pilot, fitting in with production episodes.
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post #53 of 87
11/25/08 at 9:33am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Hi Scott-

Thanks for the effort! And confirming the musical piece appear to sound alike.

With regards to the untouched Cage, my sense is the music is untouched on all versions and The Menagerie and those written by Alexander Courage. The only bits that are new is the music used in the newly filmed parts "wrapping" the episode, which includes that mystery music I was curious about.

So the only possible conclusion is that the mystery music was already written at the time of The Menagerie and they used an alternate version, or it was post edited and fades out sooner then in The Doomsday Machine. Maybe Kaplan wrote the added portion at the end of that piece.
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post #54 of 87
11/25/08 at 9:44am
Thread Starter 

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Hi Scott-

Thanks for the effort! And confirming the musical piece appear to sound alike.

With regards to the untouched Cage, my sense is the music is untouched on all versions and The Menagerie and those written by Alexander Courage. The only bits that are new is the music used in the newly filmed parts "wrapping" the episode, which includes that mystery music I was curious about.

So the only possible conclusion is that the mystery music was already written at the time of The Menagerie and they used an alternate version, or it was post edited and fades out sooner then in The Doomsday Machine. Maybe Kaplan wrote the added portion at the end of that piece.
Nelson,

It would have been fun (and interesting) to have asked Sol Kaplan about this. I wish he were still around....
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post #55 of 87
11/28/08 at 12:24am

Re: Music of Star Trek (Series and Films).

The music to The Cage was altered when shown as The Menagarie. In Jeff Bond's book on the music of Star Trek he mentions that after Pike is told he is going to be reliving his memories, there was no music after the line... " We will begin with this." It was added for the two-parter. When they ported over the video form Menagarie, they left that audio mix. Just as they left out the original voice for the Talosian. I'm sure other music was tracked in as well.
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post #56 of 87
7/30/10 at 9:28am

***This thread is now designated the Official Star Trek Music Discussion Thread***

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post #57 of 87
7/30/10 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 

^^^

 

"Logical.  Flawlessly logical."

 

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post #58 of 87
7/30/10 at 6:19pm

Read this.

 

Neil

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post #59 of 87
7/30/10 at 7:21pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk View Post


Read this.



 



Neil





Wow!!!

From the FilmScoreMonthly post:

"Then probably in the first week or two of September—we hope—is FSM Box 05. This is the long-rumored Ron Jones box set of Star Trek: The Next Generation music. 14 discs, $149.95, limited to 5000 copies—40 complete episode scores, plus some previously unreleased "Best of Both Worlds" cues and Ron's two Interplay computer game scores. All in immaculate stereo. The packaging is in the style of the Rózsa box: the booklet has an introductory essay and track listings (and lots of ST:TNG art), with comprehensive liner notes to be posted online. Did you guys know this was my dream project? I fantasized about putting this together ever since I fell in love with the scores twenty years ago. In fact it was twenty years ago almost exactly that "The Best of Both Worlds" aired." 
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post #60 of 87
7/30/10 at 7:24pm

Thanks Neil. That Star Trek TNG set is a doozy of a set, price-wise!

 

Wish there was a set like that for TOS. Though there has been a lot released of real TOS scores, it seems a lot less then this set.

 

I have to ask and correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was Ron Jones who was fired from TNG because his scores tended to be stronger scores and the producers felt the music needed to recede. I don't recall the Jone's scores to be honest, except The Best of Both Worlds and if I'm correct, the Q Who score. That is a real shame, because all the later Star Trek series scores tended to become so generic. There such great iconic music on the original Star Trek, it becomes a part of the whole.

 

And the Hawaii Five-0 CD sounds interesting.


Edited by Nelson Au - 7/30/10 at 7:34pm
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