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The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

post #1 of 111
1/17/08 at 5:31pm
Thread Starter 
isn't exactly what you might be expecting.

This time out, the AFI is doing a list called the "10 Top 10". As the concept states, there will be 10 Top 10 lists, each one devoted to a genre that, while important to cinema, doesn't necessarily have enough notable titles to devote an individual list of 100 movies to.

The ballots are on their way out now...I should be receiving mine soon.

Here's the link with more info: AFI's 10 TOP 10

Sincerely,

John Kilduff...

This could conceivably be the final chance for "Back To The Future" and "The Little Mermaid" to get any respect from the AFI.
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post #2 of 111
1/17/08 at 5:49pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Might be decent. I was thinking it may have been top ten for each decade.

Looking over the list, it seems there's some considerable leeway over what genre a movie falls into. For example, why is "Brazil" considered fantasy while "Back to the Future" is considered sci-fi? Is "The Last Picture Show" really a western? Is "The Big Lebowski" really a mystery movie? Further complicating matters is some movies make more than one list.

And are the voters choosing the best movies of the bunch or what best represents the genre?

No love for "The Empire Strikes Back", I see.

Also no "3:10 to Yuma" (1957) for western.

"Cinderella Man" can't get on the list for sports movies, but gems like "Cool Runnings", "The Mighty Ducks", and "Mystery, Alaska" can?!

I was surprised they didn't have a War movie section, but they confirmed my fear by putting essentially every war movie in the Epic section, regardless of scope.

Biggest crime of the whole list: How did they overlook the Lord of the Rings movies in the epics list?! They make a good 3/4 of the movies they have listed there look like domestic dramas.
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post #3 of 111
1/18/08 at 5:37am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

WOW!

This was the concept that I came up with two years ago. I posted in one of these threads and got absolutely ZERO feedback, so I thought I was crazy.

Although, they only chose 4-5 of the same sub-genres that I originally listed.

I would rather have seen one for "Silent Movies", "Biopics", "Horror", etc...

There is too much of a gray area between "Fantasy" & "Sci-Fi", so that's going to be a problem. Also, epic is too generic of a term. What are the qualifications? Is runtime or content more important? I've seen short films that could be considered epic stories and I've seen movies of epic length that could have fit in a 90 minute timeframe. HMMMMMMM?
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post #4 of 111
1/18/08 at 10:17pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

the distinction on fantasy and scifi is basically the old rivits versus trees distinction. Actually it's fairly clear cut. Fantasy entails 'magic' sci-fi uses technology.

for example, Being John Malkovich is nominated under fantasy and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is nominated under sci-fi. We're given a technological explanation in Eternal Sunshine, but Being John Malkovich has no explanation, it's simply a 'magic' portal.

Epic is described as taking place in a historical period.

The only sequel nominated when the original was also nominated is The Godfather Part II. since Empire STrikes Back was honored for villain it hasn't shown up anywhere, I think George Lucas may have requested to the AFI that they only include Star Wars from the Original Trilogy since he dislikes Empire most.

I imagine mostly sequels weren't nominated in these genres because they wanted a diverse representation on the final list. Empire strikes Back and Star Wars are both guaranteed final spots if both are nominated, likewise for FOTR and ROTK if both are nominated.
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post #5 of 111
1/18/08 at 11:19pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

correction, both Shrek 2 and Toy Story 2 are included.
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post #6 of 111
1/18/08 at 11:21pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Animation isn't the illusion of life—it is life!”
— Chuck Jones
AFI defines “animated” as a genre in which the film’s images are primarily created by computer or hand and the characters are voiced by actors.
A skillful combination of caricature and artistry, animation amplifies reality, offering stories that are visually stylized, but emotionally truthful.
Whether it’s a minimalist black squiggle or a full-blown tour-de-force of color and movement, animation allows imaginary characters and inanimate objects to spring vividly to life.

Aladdin 1992
Alice in Wonderland 1951
American Pop 1981
American Tale, An 1986
Antz 1998
Aristocats, The 1970
Bambi 1942
Beauty and the Beast 1991
Bug's Life, A 1998
Cars 2006
Charlotte's Web 1973
Cinderella 1950
Corpse Bride 2005
Dumbo 1941
Fantasia 1940
Finding Nemo 2003
Happy Feet 2006
Hunchback of Notre Dame 1996
Ice Age 2002
Incredibles, The 2004
Iron Giant, The 1999
Jungle Book, The 1967
Lady and the Tramp, The 1955
Lion King, The 1994
Little Mermaid, The 1994
Madagascar 2005
Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The 1977
Monster House 2006
Monsters Inc. 2001
Mulan 1998
Nightmare Before Christmas, The 1993
101 Dalmations 1961
Peter Pan 1953
Pinocchio 1940
Pocahontas 1995
Polar Express, The 2003
Rescuers, The 1977
Robin Hood 1973
Robots 2005
Secret of NIMH 1982
Shrek 2001
Shrek 2 2004
Sleeping Beauty 1959
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 1937
South Park: Bigger Longer and Uncut 1999
Sword in the Stone, The 1963
Tarzan 1999
Toy Story 1995
Toy Story 2 1999
Waking Life 2001
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post #7 of 111
1/18/08 at 11:35pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate.”
— J. R. R. Tolkien
AFI defines “fantasy” as a genre where live-action characters inhabit imagined settings and/or experience situations that transcend the rules of the natural world.
By presenting dreamlike realms where fairies flourish, witches scheme and pigs fly, fantasy demand s that audiences believe in magic and hopefor wishes to come true.

Babe 1995
Batman 1989
Beetlejuice 1988
Being John Malkovich 1999
Big 1988
Brazil 1985
Brigadoon 1954
Canterville Ghost, The 1944
Chronicles of Narnia, The: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe 2005
Clash of the Titans 1981
Conan the Barbarian 1982
Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, A 1949
Dark Crystal, The 1982
Devil and Daniel Webster, The 1941
Edward Scissorhands 1990
Field of Dreams 1989
Ghost 1990
Ghost and Mrs. Muir, The 1947
Groundhog Day 1993
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 2004
Harvey 1950
Heaven Can Wait 1978
Here Comes Mr. Jordan 1941
I Married a Witch 1942
It's a Wonderful Life 1946
Jason and the Argonauts 1963
King Kong 1933
Labyrinth 1986
Lord of the Rings, The: The Fellowship of the Ring 2001
Lost Horizon 1937
Lost World, The 1925
Mary Poppins 1964
Mask, The 1994
Miracle on 34th Street 1947
Mr. Peabody and the Mermaid 1948
Peggy Sue Got Married 1986
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl 2003
Pleasantville 1998
Portrait of Jennie 1948
Princess Bride, The 1987
Purple Rose of Cairo, The 1985
7th Voyage of Sinbad, The 1958
Spider-Man 2 2004
Splash 1984
Superman 1978
Thief of Bagdad, The 1924
Topper 1937
Who Framed Roger Rabbit 1988
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory 1971
Wizard of Oz, The 1939
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post #8 of 111
1/19/08 at 12:10am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot further
with a smile and a gun.”
— Al Capone
AFI defines the “gangster film” as a genre that centers on organized crime or maverick criminals in a twentieth century setting.
Profit-minded and highly entrepreneurial, the American gangster is the dark side of the American dream. The gangsters’ lifestyles are portraits in extremes, with audiences cheering their excesses and reveling in their demise.

Al Capone 1959
Angels with Dirty Faces 1938
Atlantic City 1980
Big Heat, The 1953
Bloody Mama 1970
Bonnie and Clyde 1967
Boyz in the Hood 1991
Bronx Tale, A 1993
Brother Orchid 1940
Bugsy 1991
Bugsy Malone 1976
Bullets Over Broadway 1994
Casino 1995
City Streets 1931
Dead End 1937
Departed, The 2006
Donnie Brasco 1997
Force of Evil 1948
G' Men 1935
Get Shorty 1995
Godfather, The 1972
Godfather Part II, The 1974
Goodfellas 1990
Gun Crazy 1949
Heat 1995
History of Violence, A 2005
Key Largo 1948
Killers, The 1946
Little Caesar 1930
Miller's Crossing 1990
New Jack City 1991
On the Waterfront 1954
Once Upon a Time in America 1984
Out of Sight 1998
Prizzi's Honor 1985
Public Enemy, The 1931
Pulp Fiction 1994
Reservoir Dogs 1992
Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond, The 1960
Roaring Twenties, The 1939
Scarface: The Shame of a Nation 1932
Scarface 1983
Scarlet Street 1945
Some Like it Hot 1959
Thieves Like Us 1974
Touch of Evil 1958
Underworld 1927
Untouchables, The 1987
Usual Suspects, The 1995
White Heat 1949
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post #9 of 111
1/19/08 at 12:21am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering.”
— Arthur C. Clarke
AFI defines “science fiction” as a genre that marries a scientific or technological premise with imaginative speculation.
Whether it’s a flying saucer whirling through space or a gleaming city on a distant planet, at the core of all science fiction is the provocative question, “What if…?” Science fiction presents stories and situations that tap our brightest hopes and darkest fears about what might, one day, turn out to be true.

A.i. Artificial Intelligence 2001
Alien 1979
Alter 1980
Andromeda Strain, the 1971
Back to the Future 1985
Beast from 20,000 Fathoms 1953
Blade Runnder 1982
Children of Men 2006
Clockwork Orange, A 1971
Close Encounters of The Third Kind 1977
Cocoon 1985
Contact 1997
Day the Earth Stood Still, The 1951
Destination Moon 1950
E.T. - The Extra Terrestrial 1982
Escape From New York 1981
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 2004
Fantastic Voyage 1966
Fly, The 1986
Forbidden Planet 1956
Frankenstein 1931
Incredible Shrinking Man, The 1957
Independence Day 1996
Invasion of the Body Snatchers 1956
Invisible Man, The 1933
It Came From Outer Space 1953
Jurassic Park 1993
Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome 1985
Matrix, The 1999
Men in Black 1997
Minority Report 2002
Planet of the Apes 1968
Repo Man 1984
Robocop 1987
Rollerball 1975
Silent Running 1972
Soylent Green 1973
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan 1982
Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope 1977
Starman 1984
Stepford Wives, The 1975
Terminator 2: Judgement Day 1991
Them! 1954
Thing From Another World, The 1951
Time Machine, The 1960
Total Recall 1990
Tron 1982
2001: A Space Odyssey 1968
War of the Worlds, The 1953
Westworld 1973
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post #10 of 111
1/19/08 at 12:33am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“The Old West is not a certain place in a certain time; it's a state of mind.”
— Tom Mix
AFI defines “western” as a genre of films set in the American West that embodies the spirit, the struggle and the demise of the new frontier.
Brimming with subtext and mythology, westerns offer iconic images of a time gone by and perhaps a time that never was. A man of action with an unspoken code of honor, the western hero faces gun-toting opponents, hostile natives, lawless towns, the harsh forces of nature, and the encroachment of civilization. But the westerner keeps going, drawn to the freedom of the open plains and the promise of a new life.

Bend of the River 1952
Big Country, The 1958
Blazing Saddles 1974
Broken Arrow 1950
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 1969
Cat Ballou 1965
Cheyenne Autumn 1964
Dances with Wolves 1990
Destry Rides Again 1939
Duel in the Sun 1946
Fort Apache 1948
Giant 1956
Gunfighter, The 1950
High Noon 1952
High Plains Drifter 1973
How the West Was Won 1962
Iron Horse, The 1924
Jeremiah Johnson 1972
Johnny Guitar 1954
Last Picture Show, The 1971
Little Big Man 1970
Lone Star 1996
Lonely are the Brave 1962
Magnificent Seven, The 1960
Major Dundee 1965
Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, The 1962
McCabe and Mrs. Miller 1971
My Darling Clementine 1946
Outlaw Josey Wales, The 1976
Ox-Bow Incident, The 1943
Pale Rider 1985
Plainsman, The 1936
Red River 1948
Ride the High Country 1962
Rio Bravo 1959
Rio Grande 1950
Searchers, The 1956
Shane 1953
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon 1948
Shootist, The 1976
Silverado 1985
Stagecoach 1939
Tall T, The 1957
True Grit 1969
Tumbleweeds 1925
Unforgiven 1992
Union Pacific 1939
Westerner, The 1940
Wild Bunch, The 1969
Will Penny 1968
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post #11 of 111
1/19/08 at 1:12am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“It ain’t over ‘til it's over.”
— Yogi Berra
AFI defines “sports” as a genre of films with protagonists who play
athletics or other games of competition.
Whether smashing a ball into the outfield, landing a right hook in the
final round or crossing a finish line to the roar of a crowd, sports movies
create myths and larger-than-life heroes. The stakes in sports may be
simple—someone wins and someone loses—but cheering for a character
who faces adversity and aims for the top is an exhilarating reminder of
the power of the human spirit.


Ali 2001
Angels in the Outfield 1951
Any Given Sunday 1999
Bad News Bears, The 1976
Bang the drum Slowly 1973
Bingo Long Traveling All-Stars and Motor Kings 1976
Body and Soul 1947
Breaking Away 1979
Bull Durham 1988
Caddyshack 1980
Champion 1949
Chariots of Fire 1981
Color of Money, The 1986
Cool Runnings 1993
Damn Yankees! 1958
Downhill Racer 1969
Eight Men Out 1988
Fear Strikes Out 1957
Field of Dreams 1989
Freshman, The 1925
Friday Night Lights 2004
Great White Hope, The 1970
Heart Like a Wheel 1983
Hoosiers 1986
Horse Feathers 1932
Hurricane, The 1999
Hustler, The 1961
Jerry Maguire 1996
Karate Kid, The 1984
Knute Rockne - All American 1940
League of Their Own, A 1992
Longest Yard, The 1974
Major League 1989
Mighty Ducks, The 1992
Million Dollar Baby 2004
Miracle 2004
Mystery, Alaska 1999
National Velvet 1944
Natural, The 1984
North Dallas Forty 1976
Pat and Mike 1952
Personal Best 1982
Pride of the Yankees, The 1942
Raging Bull 1980
Rocky 1976
Rudy 1993
Seabiscuit 2003
Slap Shot 1977
Somebody Up There Likes Me 1956
White Men Can't Jump 1992
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post #12 of 111
1/19/08 at 1:26am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Where there is mystery, it is generally suspected there must also be evil.”
— Lord Byron
AFI defines “mystery” as a genre that revolves around the solution of a
crime.
Steeped in the unpredictability of human nature and wrapped in a
tangle of plot twists, mysteries inhabit a world where the secrets are dark
and the agendas well hidden. Unlike the open-endedness that
characterizes so much of real life, a movie mystery delivers the ultimate
satisfaction of a solution in the final reel.


And Then There Were None 1945
Big Easy, The 1987
Big Heat, The 1953
Big Lebowski, The 1998
Big Sleep, The 1946
Blow Out 1981
Blue Velvet 1986
Bourne Identity, The 2002
Charade 1960
Chinatown 1974
Conversation, The 1974
D.O.A. 1950
Devil in a Blue Dress 1995
Dial M For Murder 1954
Fugitive, The 1993
Game, The 1997
Gaslight 1944
Gosford Park 2001
Hound of the Baskervilles, The 1939
House of Games 1987
In a Lonely Place 1950
In The Heat of the Night 1967
Kiss Me Deadly 1955
Klute 1971
L.A. Confidential 1997
Lady from Shanghai, The 1948
Last of Sheila, The 1973
Laura 1944
List of Adrian Messenger, The 1963
Maltese Falcon, The 1941
Man Who Knew Too Much, The 1956
Memento 2001
Mulholland Dr. 2001
Murder on the Orient Express 1974
Naked City, The 1948
North By Northwest 1959
Postman Always Rings Twice, The 1946
Rear Window 1954
Rebecca 1940
Se7en 1995
Sea of Love 1989
Shot in the Dark, A 1964
Sleuth 1972
Spellbound 1945
Suspicion 1941
Thin Man, The 1934
Third Man, The 1949
To Catch a Thief 1955
Usual Suspects, The 1995
Vertigo 1958
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post #13 of 111
1/19/08 at 1:26am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Where there is mystery, it is generally suspected there must also be evil.”
— Lord Byron
AFI defines “mystery” as a genre that revolves around the solution of a
crime.
Steeped in the unpredictability of human nature and wrapped in a
tangle of plot twists, mysteries inhabit a world where the secrets are dark
and the agendas well hidden. Unlike the open-endedness that
characterizes so much of real life, a movie mystery delivers the ultimate
satisfaction of a solution in the final reel.


And Then There Were None 1945
Big Easy, The 1987
Big Heat, The 1953
Big Lebowski, The 1998
Big Sleep, The 1946
Blow Out 1981
Blue Velvet 1986
Bourne Identity, The 2002
Charade 1960
Chinatown 1974
Conversation, The 1974
D.O.A. 1950
Devil in a Blue Dress 1995
Dial M For Murder 1954
Fugitive, The 1993
Game, The 1997
Gaslight 1944
Gosford Park 2001
Hound of the Baskervilles, The 1939
House of Games 1987
In a Lonely Place 1950
In The Heat of the Night 1967
Kiss Me Deadly 1955
Klute 1971
L.A. Confidential 1997
Lady from Shanghai, The 1948
Last of Sheila, The 1973
Laura 1944
List of Adrian Messenger, The 1963
Maltese Falcon, The 1941
Man Who Knew Too Much, The 1956
Memento 2001
Mulholland Dr. 2001
Murder on the Orient Express 1974
Naked City, The 1948
North By Northwest 1959
Postman Always Rings Twice, The 1946
Rear Window 1954
Rebecca 1940
Se7en 1995
Sea of Love 1989
Shot in the Dark, A 1964
Sleuth 1972
Spellbound 1945
Suspicion 1941
Thin Man, The 1934
Third Man, The 1949
To Catch a Thief 1955
Usual Suspects, The 1995
Vertigo 1958
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post #14 of 111
1/19/08 at 1:42am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“One is very crazy when in love.”
— Sigmund Freud
AFI defines “romantic comedy” as a genre in which the development of
a romance leads to comic situations.
Romantic comedy spares no one in chronicling the horror and
humiliation, the hope and despair, the agony and ecstasy of Cupid’s
arrow. Wrapped in fantasy and charm, laced with funny little truths
about the human condition, romantic comedies remind us that we’re all
susceptible to that crazy thing called love.

Adam's Rib 1949
American President, The 1995
Annie Hall 1977
Apartment, The 1960
As Good as it Gets 1997
Awful Truth, The 1937
Ball of Fire 1941
Barefoot in the Park 1967
Born Yesterday 1950
Bridget Jones's Diary 2001
Bringing up Baby 1938
Bull Durham 1988
City Lights 1931
Clueless 1995
Design for Living 1933
40 Year-Old Virgin, The 2005
Goodbye Girl, The 1977
Harold and Maude 1971
His Girl Friday 1940
It Happened One Night 1934
Jerry Maguire 1996
Lady Eve, The 1941
Moonstruck 1987
My Best Friend's Wedding 1997
My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2002
My Man Godfrey 1936
Ninotchka 1939
Nothing Sacred 1937
Palm Beach Story, The 1942
Philadelphia Story, The 1940
Pillow Talk 1959
Pretty Woman 1990
Roman Holiday 1953
Roxanne 1987
Sabrina 1954
Say Anything… 1989
Shakespeare in Love 1998
Shop Around the Corner 1940
Sixteen Candles 1984
Sleepless in Seattle 1993
Something's Gotta Give 2003
Splash 1984
10 1979
There's Something About Mary 1998
Trouble in Paradise 1932
Wedding Singer, The 1998
What's Up, Doc? 1972
When Harry Met Sally… 1989
Woman of the Year 1942
Working Girl 1988
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post #15 of 111
1/19/08 at 1:53am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“Justice has nothing to do with what goes on in a courtroom;
justice is what comes out of a courtroom.”
— Clarence Darrow
AFI defines “courtroom drama” as a genre of film in which a system
of justice plays a critical role in the film’s narrative.
Innocent until proven guilty. These four words inspire stories where the
outcome may be the difference between life and death. The drama
inherent in the theatre of a courtroom—the accused enters, prosecution
and defense state their case, and a jury deliberates—all build to the
moment when a verdict is read.


Absence of Malice 1981
Accused, The 1988
Adam's Rib 1949
Advise & Consent 1949
Amistad 1997
Anatomy of a Murder 1959
…And Justice for All 1979
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt 1956
Caine Mutiny, The 1954
Children's Hour, The 1961
Client, The 1994
Compulsion 1959
Crucible, The 1996
Cry in the Dark, A 1988
Erin Brockavich 2000
Few Good Men, A 1992
Fury 1936
Ghosts of Mississippi 1996
I Confess 1953
I Want to Live! 1958
In Cold Blood 1967
Inherit the Wind 1960
Insider, The 1999
Jagged Edge 1985
Judgement at Nuremberg 1961
Kramer vs. Kramer 1979
Legally Blonde 2001
Libel 1959
Madame X 1966
Man For All Seasons, A 1966
My Cousin Vinny 1992
Onion Field, The 1979
Paths of Glory 1957
Pelican Brief, The 1993
People Vs. Larry Flynt, The 1996
Philadelphia 1993
Presumed Innocent 1990
Primal Fear 1996
Rainmaker, The 1997
Reversal of Fortune 1990
Soldier's Story, A 1984
Suspect 1987
Talk of the Town, The 1942
Time to Kill, A 1996
To Kill a Mockingbird 1962
12 Angry Men 1957
Verdict, The 1982
Witness for the Prosecution 1957
Young Mr. Lincoln 1939
Young Philadelphians, the 1959
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post #16 of 111
1/19/08 at 2:06am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

“I came, I saw, I conquered.”
— Julius Caesar
AFI defines “epic” as a genre of large-scale films set in a cinematic
interpretation of the past. Their scope defies and demands—either
in the mode in which they are presented or their range across time.
A bloody sword fight in an ancient coliseum; carnage on an open
battlefield; a country on the eve of revolution. With sweeping
interpretations of turbulent times, epics depict characters that,
whether nobly heroic or shamefully depraved, are living life on the grandest of scales.



All Quiet on the Western Front 1930
Apocalypse Now 1979
Ben-Hur 1926
Ben-Hur 1959
Big Parade, The 1925
Birth of a Nation, The 1915
Braveheart 1995
Bridge on the River Kwai, The 1957
El Cid 1961
Cleopatra 1963
Dances With Wolves 1990
Doctor Zhivago 1965
Forrest Gump 1994
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, The 1921
Gandhi 1982
Giant 1956
Gladiator 2000
Glory 1989
Godfather Part II, The 1974
Gone With the Wind 1939
Greatest Story Ever Told, The 1965
How the West Was Won 1962
Intolerance 1916
Julius Caesar 1953
King of Kings, The 1927
Last Emperor, The 1987
Last of the Mohicans, The 1992
Last Temptation of Christ, The 1988
Lawrence of Arabia 1962
Letters from Iwo Jima 2006
Longest Day, The 1962
Malcolm X 1992
Man Who Would Be King, The 1975
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World 2003
Once Upon a Time in America 1984
Passion of the Christ, The 2004
Patton 1970
Queen Christina 1933
Quo Vadis? 1951
Reds 1981
Robe, The 1953
Samson and Delilah 1949
Saving Private Ryan 1998
Schindler's List 1993
Sign of the Cross, The 1932
Spartacus 1960
Ten Commandments, The 1923
Ten Commandments, The 1956
Titanic 1997
War and Peace 1956
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post #17 of 111
1/19/08 at 2:07am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

AFI's rules state the film must be in the English language, which should DQ Letters from Iwo Jima and Passion of the Christ, not sure why they were nominated.

One Write in candidate per category is allowed, so we may see Ratatouille show up on the final list.

I would have liked to seen Since you went Away on the Epics list and Naked Spur on the Westerns list
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post #18 of 111
1/19/08 at 7:11am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

There's a 'Courtroom Drama' category and no category for horror movies? I know most people look down on horror movies but it would be nice if the American Film Institute didn't fall victim to that type of snobbery too.
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post #19 of 111
1/19/08 at 12:17pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

I don't see why they would name one of the categories "Gangster" and "Crime" is a bit more general and fits better, but I'm not running the show...

I also noticed Excalibur didn't make their fantasy list.
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post #20 of 111
1/19/08 at 3:12pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
There's a 'Courtroom Drama' category and no category for horror movies? I know most people look down on horror movies but it would be nice if the American Film Institute didn't fall victim to that type of snobbery too.

You have to remember that "critics" and "normal people" will put any horror film they like into the mystery or thriller catagory. No critic will admit that there's a good horror film.

As for the lists, I find them fun for those wanting to search out these films but blah for other things. I'm going to guess TO KILL... will win the courtroom one. Epic should be an interesting one since both BEN HUR movies are on the list as well as other silent films.
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post #21 of 111
1/19/08 at 4:57pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
You have to remember that "critics" and "normal people" will put any horror film they like into the mystery or thriller catagory. No critic will admit that there's a good horror film.
Sad but true.
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post #22 of 111
1/19/08 at 5:17pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

No critic will admit that there's a good horror film.
I can't agree with that. I think lots of critics would call Psycho a good film, just to name one example.
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post #23 of 111
1/19/08 at 5:20pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Halloween is a good horror film, but I wouldn't classify it as a thriller. in most people's minds horror divides into a couple categories, teen girls screaming and blood spurting everywhere at random (preferablly in the thousands of gallons) for 89 minutes or films of Dread like Sixth Sense, The Ring, and Psycho.

Very few of the semingly endless schlocky film variety are films anyone but a fanboy have any desire to see, most are mainly useful for mocking and nothing else--in most people's minds.

I think there are at the very least fifty great horror films and that horror should have been one of the categories, and yes they could include films like Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween, or Friday the 13th that most people. There are as many crappy romantic comedies as there are horror films but they managed to find fifty mostly great films for that list. They could have done the same for horror
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post #24 of 111
1/19/08 at 5:33pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Quote:
I can't agree with that. I think lots of critics would call Psycho a good film, just to name one example.

This is one example where I might be a hypocrite and bash myself like I was bashing the critics in my statement above. I personally don't consider PSYCHO a horror film as I see it more of a mystery or thriller. If I were to consider this a horror film then I'd let other Hitchcock movies in like ROPE, VERTIGO, REAR WINDOW and even FRENZY. A lot of horror fans have told me I'm wrong on this issue and I'm sure many here will think I am but I've just never counted PSYCHO as horror. I really don't see it any different than a Holmes, Moto or film noir.

Don't tell anyone but I don't consider THE EXORCIST a "horror" movie either.

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Very few of the semingly endless schlocky film variety are films anyone but a fanboy have any desire to see, most are mainly useful for mocking and nothing else--in most people's minds.

Which is my whole point in regards to critics and "fanboys" as you put it or "normal people" as I put it. You claim most are used for "mocking and nothing else" but I'm fairly certain you've seen very little of them and what you have seen are probably from MST3K (or something like it).

I don't have any problem with this because I'll be the first to tell you that the genre has turned over a lot of shit over the years and continues to do so. I made my "bottom 10" of 2007 list earlier today and seven of them were horror films. You've seen my reviews in the Track thread and you probably noticed that the majority of BOMB and one-star ratings come from horror movies.

The main issue I have is that your comments "mocking and nothing else" have been true since 1910 and Edison's version of FRANKENSTEIN. I think today most people would agree that BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN is a great movie and Karloff is brilliant as the monster but in 1935 critics would throw the "mocking and nothing else" comment at it. Critics hated ISLAND OF LOST SOULS, DRACULA, FRANKENSTEIN and pretty much any horror film that today is considered a classic. The Val Lewton's of the 1940's were booed by critics but today they are held as classics. The Hammer and Universal films of the 1950's were hated by critics but today are considered classics. Heck, even PSYCHO got some very bad reviews when originally released. Let's not even go into the subject of John Carpenter and stuff like THE THING.

The point is that the genre has always been looked down on by critics and movie fans yet years later people come around and call the film a masterpiece. These critics and movie fans should probably take notice when the films are released and not wait ten years to praise them.
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post #25 of 111
1/19/08 at 7:07pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

for the most part this is true of a lot of genres, Science fiction, fantasy, even westerns--critics only like dramas in the contemporary moment, and this is always universally true, without fail, unless an unavoidable genre landmark comes along that blows everyone's minds (Dances with Wolves, Unforgiven, Silence of the Lambs, Sixth Sense, Lord of the Rings, Saving Private Ryan).

looking at the films in the aggregate past is when the standouts and classics of the genre have a chance to rise from the ashes, and you see the great films like Island of Lost Souls and the Val Lewton films begin to get appreciated for being the excellent films (as well as genre pinnacles) that many of them are. It's unfortunate this can't be seen during the moment, and more unfortunate that horror is being ignored by these lists because it is probably the most shat upon genre (guilty of that myself).

Another great film not on the Rom Com list I just thought of, Joe v. The Volcano.

I like a lot of the great horror films I've seen, but I'm not crazy about very many and I don't feel a need to seek out every horror film, when there's so many other films I've not seen. I can only watch about 250 films a year (can't do the amount you and Joe manage) at best and that severely limits my repeat viewings more than I'd like and the result is I mostly see the best of sampling of all. so I've not seen more than 2/3 of the films on most of these lists of fifty for all the genres, I've a sort of well rounded sampling of most genres, but hardly an in depth knowledge of any of them, except perhaps animation.
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post #26 of 111
1/19/08 at 8:10pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

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Originally Posted by Adam_S
I think there are at the very least fifty great horror films and that horror should have been one of the categories, and yes they could include films like Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween, or Friday the 13th that most people. There are as many crappy romantic comedies as there are horror films but they managed to find fifty mostly great films for that list. They could have done the same for horror
Basically that's my view too. I see lots of horror movies and there's tons of lousy, cheap, exploitive and just plain ones. However, there's also some great ones too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Don't tell anyone but I don't consider THE EXORCIST a "horror" movie either.
That's crazy talk. For what it's worth, I can see how a person wouldn't call Psycho a horror movie but personally, I consider Psycho and Frenzy as the only two horror movies that Hitchcock made.
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post #27 of 111
1/19/08 at 8:40pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

I'll just say that if you're going to restrict your definition of 'horror' films to ones like Elm Street and Friday the 13th, then perhaps critics don't embrace that type of horror film. But to claim that critically acclaimed films like Psycho, Frankenstein, Rosemary's Baby, Jaws, The Silence of the Lambs, Alien, The Birds, etc. aren't horror is something I certainly don't agree with.

I do think that most of Hitchcock's films are more mystery than horror, but I'd certainly put Frenzy, Psycho and The Birds in the horror genre.
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post #28 of 111
1/19/08 at 9:57pm

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Just for the record, I don't consider the Val Lewton films horror either. I think these fall into the strange case of a producer hating horror films but being forced to make them so he made them 95% drama and 5% horror.

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Psycho, Frankenstein, Rosemary's Baby, Jaws, The Silence of the Lambs, Alien, The Birds, etc. aren't horror is something I certainly don't agree with.

I personally don't have a problem with anyone calling these horror films. If AFI did do a horror list then these are certainly the movies that would be on it. I doubt something like ZOMBIE, F13 or some Franco film would make the list because they've yet to be accepted by the critics.

ROSEMARY'S BABY and THE EXORCIST, to me and probably me only, are dramas. I think both work on the fear of a sick child and the "horrors" it has on the mother. With TE, you could have had the child sick with cancer, STDs or whatever and the story wouldn't have changed because it was on the mother. I think TE is nothing more than exploitation on a mainstream crowd. There's no doubt the mainstream had never seen anything like this before but to me it was the director doing pure exploitation. The horror of this film is the mother dealing with a sick child. The exploitation is the puke, cussing, Satan and all that stuff.

In the case of Friedkin it's interesting. He has stated countless times that THE EXORCIST isn't a horror movie yet everyone considers it one. The director's CRUISING is a thriller or mystery yet I think it's nothing more than a slasher with the masked killer stalking gay men instead of your typical masked killer stalking sex crazed teens. This is where I might be a hypocrite because CRUISING and PSYCHO have a lot in common. Both deal with murder, a hidden killer and the investigation.

Which brings me to my point of which genre to throw the films. PSYCHO deals with a murder by an unknown killer and the investigation into it. How is this film any different than countless mystery/noir/detective films from the 30s and 40s? Take out Arbogast (sp?) and add Moto, Chan or Boston Blackie and you have a "mystery" film from the 40s. I'm not sure if it's the music of PSYCHO, the shadows, the scares or what but I don't think it was ever sold as a horror film.
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post #29 of 111
1/20/08 at 5:04am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

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I do think that most of Hitchcock's films are more mystery than horror, but I'd certainly put Frenzy, Psycho and The Birds in the horror genre.
Absolutely agree with Psycho and The Birds - clearly horror in my mind. But you're the second person in this thread to class Frenzy as a horror, and I'm curious why. It has been a few years since I last saw it, but I definitely remember considering it a thriller rather than a horror.
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post #30 of 111
1/20/08 at 6:45am

Re: The AFI 100 Years List for 2008...

Well, Frenzy is a story of a serial killer stalking young women. Aside from the fact that he's strangling the victims instead of slashing them, I don't see much genre difference between this and the slasher films.

I guess it might help to get a definition from those who view F13, etc. as horror films and don't view films like Frenzy or Psycho as horror. I guess if you define horror as "lots of blood spurting from a series of graphic killings", then yeah, Frankenstein and Frenzy etc. aren't "horror", but to me that's a definition of "modern slasher" film, not a definition of "horror" film, and would have to conclude that there was no such thing as a horror film before 1970s.
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