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08: Home Theater Project Beginning - Page 2

post #31 of 53
1/16/08 at 9:27am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
The powered sub in that setup would only add distortion to your IB. I wouldn't use it. In fact, I wouldn't buy a package set like that. You are stepping into world class bass but going cheap on the speakers. Upgrade in stages and get quality speakers. AV123, SVS and Elemental designs all have nice speakers that you could use as your front 3.

-Robert

I looked at those speakers. I like the Elemental Designs prices(budget friendly) If I got the A6-6T6(200w) for my center and the A6-5T5(150w) the the Front L and R I would still be within my budget on things to get now assuming I could use my kenwood speakers now for the Left, Right, And rear surrounds in a 7. setup.

All this equipment will be installed in the upstairs living area for the time being and then when the basement is finished I will move the Receiver, Speakers, Blu-Ray player, and Build a new IB sub. The Speaker wire is run under baseboards now for a 5.1 setup so I will add 2 more wires for the 2 more channels which will be run using the wall channels which can be moved if I wish to later.

I will be adding a 56" or 61" 1080p DLP Samsung with the LED light engine upstairs and selling the 720p Samsung DLP that is there now.
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post #32 of 53
1/16/08 at 11:19am

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

ED even runs their own forum (icixsound.com) where you can ask detailed questions. About half of the time, the owner of the company is answering the questions. Other than AV123 and SVS, I know of no other company where you can get that kind of service.

You can absolutely use the Kenwoods for surrounds. I'm using older Polks as my surrounds. One even has a busted tweeter. They are temporary until I can build 7 identical speakers. Now that I have time to build, the temp has dropped below the minimum recommended by my wood glue manufacturer.

-Robert
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post #33 of 53
1/16/08 at 11:58am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
ED even runs their own forum (icixsound.com) where you can ask detailed questions. About half of the time, the owner of the company is answering the questions. Other than AV123 and SVS, I know of no other company where you can get that kind of service.

You can absolutely use the Kenwoods for surrounds. I'm using older Polks as my surrounds. One even has a busted tweeter. They are temporary until I can build 7 identical speakers. Now that I have time to build, the temp has dropped below the minimum recommended by my wood glue manufacturer.

-Robert

So you are going to build all your speakers?

Do you have any opinions on the TV's I listed?
circuitcity.com- Product Comparison - Projection TVs
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post #34 of 53
1/16/08 at 2:16pm

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Yes, I'm building all of my speakers. Six of the mid-tweeter-mid and one of the center channel using the Dayton home theater plans. Build my subs as well. Literally. I bought the magnets, frames, cones, etc. Bolting and gluing up four 18's.

Out of those TV's get the biggest. Don't pay any attention to how they look in the store. Once home and calibrated, they will all look great.

-Robert
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post #35 of 53
1/16/08 at 5:34pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Would LED lights offer anything extra except for longevity? I will have to take a look at those plans.
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post #36 of 53
1/18/08 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

What are some opinions of the AE15 vs the FiCar Audio 15's vs FI 18's.
So

(a) 2 FiCar Audio with ep-2500 $488(est)
(b) 2 FiCar Audio 18's with ep-2500 $650(est)
(c) 4 AE15's with ep-2500 $650(est.)
(d) 4 FiCar Audio 15's with ep-2500 $726(est)

in a 17'5" x 14'8" x 8'(celings) Room.
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post #37 of 53
1/18/08 at 10:16am

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Design and quality between the two companies is a wash. Scott Atwell at Fi is a great transducer engineer as well as John J. at AE. John's business is a little smaller. Scott not only builds drivers for Fi, the builds them for Ascendant Audio, Epik Subwoofers and I think Sound Solutions Audio.

For actual performance, we need to look at the displacemnt of the drivers. Take the piston surface area of the cone (the Sd parameter) and multiply it times the xmax (in cm) times 2. Then multiply that times the number of drivers. Divide by 1,000 and that gives you the liters of air the proposed sub system will be able to move.

You can also look at the other T/S parameters. The lower the driver's Fs, the easier it is to for the sub to play low. Not always a big issue with EQ available. Also, the Qts should be a little higher for IB subs. .500 is perfect. But again, that's debatable. I'd go down to price vs. having a 2 driver IB or a 4 driver IB. I thought about having a 4 driver manifold but determined that I would have to build it in my attic. I switched to a having a pair of dual driver manifolds that I can easily get through the attic door. I will still install the drivers while in the attic. I don't think I can carry an 80 pound manifold with 80 pounds of drivers installed without bumping into something and breaking it (the bumpee, not the sub).

I did some calculations and the 18" Fi will potentially move twice as much air as the 15" Fi. I would go with a pair of the 18" Fi subs and wire them in series to one channel of your EP-2500 for a 4 ohm load. If that isn't enough, then get another pair of 18's for the other channel of the amp.

-Robert
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post #38 of 53
1/18/08 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
Design and quality between the two companies is a wash. Scott Atwell at Fi is a great transducer engineer as well as John J. at AE. John's business is a little smaller. Scott not only builds drivers for Fi, the builds them for Ascendant Audio, Epik Subwoofers and I think Sound Solutions Audio.

For actual performance, we need to look at the displacemnt of the drivers. Take the piston surface area of the cone (the Sd parameter) and multiply it times the xmax (in cm) times 2. Then multiply that times the number of drivers. Divide by 1,000 and that gives you the liters of air the proposed sub system will be able to move.

You can also look at the other T/S parameters. The lower the driver's Fs, the easier it is to for the sub to play low. Not always a big issue with EQ available. Also, the Qts should be a little higher for IB subs. .500 is perfect. But again, that's debatable. I'd go down to price vs. having a 2 driver IB or a 4 driver IB. I thought about having a 4 driver manifold but determined that I would have to build it in my attic. I switched to a having a pair of dual driver manifolds that I can easily get through the attic door. I will still install the drivers while in the attic. I don't think I can carry an 80 pound manifold with 80 pounds of drivers installed without bumping into something and breaking it (the bumpee, not the sub).

I did some calculations and the 18" Fi will potentially move twice as much air as the 15" Fi. I would go with a pair of the 18" Fi subs and wire them in series to one channel of your EP-2500 for a 4 ohm load. If that isn't enough, then get another pair of 18's for the other channel of the amp.

-Robert


Thats the entire reason I am here.
Now I have another question. Would it be possible to do the following. using 2 18's to start and then adding 2 more in a few months? Or would it simply not work or sound like crap. I could always add a center wall to divide the box into 2 smaller boxes until I added the other subs.
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post #39 of 53
1/18/08 at 1:05pm

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

That would absolutely work. Go ahead and cut the holes for the drivers and mount in MDF discs in the place of the future subs. Make sure you use closed cell weatherstripping for an air tight seal.

If you were local, you could have my manifold for 15's in the pic below. I was testing it to make sure it didn't vibrate and make any noise.

-Robert

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post #40 of 53
1/18/08 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Thats good news, I'm going to start an actual "list" of parts I need for the initial build now. Building a box for 4 18's but will only have 2 to start.

I am guessing I will need a least 40" High x 16" Wide x 20-21" deep box for the subs with some support in the middle. And how well will an ep-2500 power 4 Fi 18's?
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post #41 of 53
1/18/08 at 3:25pm

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

If your studs are 16" on center, then the box needs to be 17.5" wide. I'd also go with dual layer MDF. For my dual 18" manifold, it is 17.5"x24"x24". My cut list for dual manifolds was:
8 pieces - 24" x 24" (sides where the drivers mount)
8 pieces - 24" x 14.5" (ends)
4 pieces - 21" x 14.5" (top)

For you, I'd go with:
4 pieces - 24" x 48" (sides where the drivers mount)
4 pieces - 24" x 14.5" (ends)
1 piece - 22.5" x 14.5" (window brace for the middle)
2 pieces - 45" x 14.5" (top)

You will drive each pair of 18's with one channel of the EP-2500. Each pair of drivers wired in series for a 4 ohm load.

I never asked. Do you have a separate room for your EP-2500? If not, you want to investigate making the fan quieter.

-Robert
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post #42 of 53
1/18/08 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

The only seperate room would be the garage. I could put the amp out there where noise would not be a factor.

Which box would I go with in the beginning with only 2 18's Go ahead with the window brace or put in a solid piece of MDF?
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post #43 of 53
1/18/08 at 7:58pm

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Go with A. The larger the opening the better. Splitting it with a solid brace may not make any difference acoustically. At least with a window brace, the minor differences in output will be evened out a little more.

That 14.5" is the internal measurement. The outside measurement will be 17.5".

-Robert
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post #44 of 53
1/19/08 at 7:23am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

It should work out fine putting the amp in the garage next to the IB, The only wire I would have to run through the wall would be the out from the receiver . Do they make a wall plate for a connection like that?
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post #45 of 53
1/19/08 at 10:30am

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Do you mean something like this? PE has hundreds of different wall plates and adapters. I use an RCA to F adapter at my receiver. I run RG-6 with crimp on F-connectors throught the walls and attic. Another RCA to F adapter at the receiver. And an RCA to mono 1/4" phono plug connected the EP-2500.

If your garage gets extremely hot, then wouldn't install it there. If it is dusty, build a smaller box on top of your manifold to enclose the entire amp. Put some type of filter system into it so the air circulating inside the amp is clean. Open the case and turn the original fan around so it sucks are from the front of the amp rather than the rear.

If you install it inside, get a quiet fan. You will need to fashion your own plug for it but most use the 3.5" power plug from an old PC power supply. I'll even send you one if you need it.

-Robert
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post #46 of 53
1/20/08 at 6:26pm
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
Do you mean something like this? PE has hundreds of different wall plates and adapters. I use an RCA to F adapter at my receiver. I run RG-6 with crimp on F-connectors throught the walls and attic. Another RCA to F adapter at the receiver. And an RCA to mono 1/4" phono plug connected the EP-2500.

If your garage gets extremely hot, then wouldn't install it there. If it is dusty, build a smaller box on top of your manifold to enclose the entire amp. Put some type of filter system into it so the air circulating inside the amp is clean. Open the case and turn the original fan around so it sucks are from the front of the amp rather than the rear.

If you install it inside, get a quiet fan. You will need to fashion your own plug for it but most use the 3.5" power plug from an old PC power supply. I'll even send you one if you need it.

-Robert

Yeah the garage gets pretty hot during the Summer months. So the box will sit on the back of the studs then and I'll just put in small braces to tie the Studs together to form a box between the studs that the IB will mount to.
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post #47 of 53
1/21/08 at 8:17am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

I have a quick question. I have a HTiB now(5.1 non powered sub) Someone gave me a powered sub(unsure about brand, watts etc) Could I hook up the powered sub to the HTiB Receiver to use until I can get my new receiver and IB built?(Temporary, like less than a month)
The only numbers I can find are Model # AP-A120 and DA-1000.SUB


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post #48 of 53
1/21/08 at 10:37am

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Sure. If you HTiB has an LFE output, then connect that to the line level input of the temp sub. If it only has speaker outs for the sub, then those would connect to the speaker level input of the temp sub.

-Robert
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post #49 of 53
1/21/08 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

The HTiB has a Sub out but it connects using the spring type connectors. The HTiB Receiver powers the sub, so will it hurt anything to have a powered signal going to a powered sub? Can I make my own connector that goes from a spring type conntctor to a RCA?
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post #50 of 53
1/21/08 at 11:32am

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

The spring connectors are speaker level. Just like I mentioned in my previous post. Just connect that output to the sub's high level inputs. You only need to connect the Left input on the sub.

Yes, you could use a line output converter and send that signal to the low level inputs. But that would be a waste of money since that's what the high level inputs are already doing.

-Robert
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post #51 of 53
1/21/08 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Just making sure. Any Clue on the brand of sub that is, the guy said it was a Design Concepts Inc(DCI) Sub? Could not find anything on the net. Yeah I dont want to waste any money, all money is going towards the IB. But I figured this was free so I might as well test it out. Thanks.

Now I gotta start ordering my equipment.

2 Fi 18's($209 each)
EP-2500($249)

MDF(Home Depot $?.00)
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post #52 of 53
1/21/08 at 12:31pm

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

Never heard of the brand nor do I recognize anything from the pictures. But any sub is better than no sub.

MDF at HD is about $23 a sheet here. It all depends on how far you are from the factory.

-Robert
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post #53 of 53
1/22/08 at 6:10am
Thread Starter 

Re: 08: Home Theater Project Beginning

I hooked up the sub last night and while is sounds "better" than what I had. It has a rattle at certain levels, and is kinda distorted sounding, so it will work for a few weeks but then it will be leaving.
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