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*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

post #1 of 61
1/7/08 at 6:57am
Thread Starter 
Couldn't find a discussion thread on this.

Another fantastic performance from Daniell Day-Lewis.

A relentlessly brutal film.

Loved it!
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There Will Be Blood [Blu-ray]
post #2 of 61
1/7/08 at 7:30am

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I'm dying to see this film, but it's still in limited release. I live in the Chicago burbs, but it's only showing on 3 screens downtown. I was close to pulling the trigger yesterday, but by the end of the day, it was cost $75+ for two of us to drive downtown, pay for parking, two tickets, & refreshments. I decided to wait and hopefully it expands next weekend.
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post #3 of 61
1/7/08 at 9:08am
Thread Starter 

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ruben
I was also troubled by the decision to have Paul Dano play both brothers, Paul and Eli Sunday. A lot of reviewers refer to them as "twin" brothers, but no one ever says that, and in fact it's been widely reported that another actor was originally cast as Eli. Introducing two characters played by the same actor with no explanation and no significant change in appearance creates narrative confusion at a point in the film when the plot is still getting established, and I think it was a mistake. (Which is not to say that casting Dano was a mistake; he nails the role.).

There is an odd moment were Eli introduces himself the to Daniel. Daniel has a what seems to me a very odd reaction, almost a "What the ????" expression and I believe he actually turns and looks and his son H.W. as well. Almost as if he is thrown a little that Paul and Eli could be twins? The fact that he didn't say anything about it the rest of the film seems to me to fit his character. I don't know. Maybe I misinterpreted it or read too much into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
Still, for all my problems with it, it's a true original, unlike anything I've seen before, from Anderson or anyone else. Those don't come along often.

M

I agree.
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post #4 of 61
1/7/08 at 11:41am

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I want to see this one to. It looks very very intriguing, and for some reason very brutal. Not just brutal violence but brutal for the time period. Does that make sense?

It is on my list of films to see very soon.
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post #5 of 61
1/7/08 at 4:36pm

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
I was also troubled by the decision to have Paul Dano play both brothers, Paul and Eli Sunday. A lot of reviewers refer to them as "twin" brothers, but no one ever says that, and in fact it's been widely reported that another actor was originally cast as Eli. Introducing two characters played by the same actor with no explanation and no significant change in appearance creates narrative confusion at a point in the film when the plot is still getting established, and I think it was a mistake. (Which is not to say that casting Dano was a mistake; he nails the role.)

I agree. I had not known there were two characters, and for me during the screening, I thought that perhaps Eli had simply given the false name of Paul when he first met Plainview (and hence the look between Daniel and HW later when Eli introduces himself). It wasn't until later in the movie that I realized they were two separate guys.
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post #6 of 61
1/7/08 at 10:45pm

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Steve

Great comments. Hard to imagine the Paul / Eli thing was an error. It;'s set me thinking and I'd love to heard PTA's point of view

It certainly is an intimate epic that we are kept at arms length from by the character of Daniel Plainview.

Great to see another agree on the score. i simply can't believe anyone thinking it was nayhting other than amazing. The use of Brahms and I think, Arvo Part was very clever

By the way, when you were an hour or so into the film did you have this sense of dread that there will in deed be ... blood?

Rob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Y
My reaction to Paul/Eli was exactly the same as Kirk's, and I'm not usually thrown by these things. Upon leaving the theater I was convinced such a cheeky stroke must have been intentional, even if it was a relatively "last-minute" artistic decision due to some casting changes. In a movie where everything else is so carefully crafted, you can bet its ambiguity was not lost on the filmmaker(s).

I, like Michael, had issues with the film, though it has lingered in my memory - always a good sign. But I just can't pin it down. On the whole it was very compelling. But what exactly are we meant to digest?

The "tapering of vision" in the last act makes sense when you realize that the film has really very little to say about greed, oil, or religion (nothing that hasn't been said a thousand times), and is really only interested in one man's doomed and blackened heart. Making that heart a metaphor for America is another matter.

It's an intimate epic, and yet the object of the camera's intimacy keeps us at bay with rhetoric and violence, so we are left with a feeling.... is this all there is to Daniel Plainview? (Yes and No are my answers so far)

I loved Johnny Greenwood's score, which forced you out of the reverie that such horse-clopping visuals might provoke in an audience. It seemed to drag the whole oily affair out of the earth and into a kind of doomsday.

It was also nice to see a little-used Brahms concerto play such a prominent role in the storytelling.
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post #7 of 61
1/8/08 at 5:37pm

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Great to see another agree on the score. i simply can't believe anyone thinking it was nayhting other than amazing.

PTA's Punch Drunk Love also featured an aggressive film score, and I recall hearing several people voicing their displeasure about it. The score is not dissimilar here, with a lot of it being deliberately unpleasant or ominous. I expect many viewers to actively dislike it. After Punch Drunk Love, I suspect PTA is okay with that.

For those who have yet to see it, the ending of the credits also has a dedication.
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post #8 of 61
1/9/08 at 12:50am

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Oh yeah....

The Baptism scene rules all.

One of the most entertaining ( ) scenes of the decade.
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post #9 of 61
1/13/08 at 4:44am

*** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "There Will Be Blood". Please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "There Will Be Blood" should be posted to the http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ml#post3304785.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


Crawdaddy

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post #10 of 61
1/13/08 at 11:02am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

One thing about the title and how it relates to the film as a whole: Bloodlines.

Daniel Plainview was dealing with fake blood relatives for most of the film (H.W. was his fake son, no true relation, and his "brother" turned out to be a faker as well). But neither betrayed him in the truest sense, though Daniel couldn't quite reconcile their lack of the Plainville DNA to ever fully embrace them as family in spite of their own ambitions, they just weren't of his blood relation and that was that. Now contrast that with Eli and Paul Sunday where Paul willingly betrays his family - his blood, for money and ambition, and no appreciable remorse of the impact it would have on his family's future.

Is blood thicker than oil?

Just something to ponder.
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post #11 of 61
1/13/08 at 8:44pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I thought Dano was playing the same character throughout the whole movie? We never see Paul and Eli together, especially when they should be together during the family dinner. Or, did Paul leave his family with the money he received from Daniel?

~T
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post #12 of 61
1/13/08 at 9:47pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

There are 2 distinct brothers. Paul took off after getting his blood money from Daniel. Daniel alluded to this during the final scene.

Originally 2 actors were to play 2 Sunday brothers, but the actor who was to play Paul didn't work out, so PT Anderson decided to just make them twins, and Dano stepped up to the plate to play both roles.
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post #13 of 61
1/14/08 at 7:39am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Dying to see this.
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post #14 of 61
1/14/08 at 10:23am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
There are 2 distinct brothers. Paul took off after getting his blood money from Daniel. Daniel alluded to this during the final scene.

Originally 2 actors were to play 2 Sunday brothers, but the actor who was to play Paul didn't work out, so PT Anderson decided to just make them twins, and Dano stepped up to the plate to play both roles.

Yes. If nothing else, the final scene absolutely confirms there are 2 distinct brothers as Daniel taunts Eli with news of his brother Paul's success.

For a while, I admit, I thought they were the same - that Eli had 'played' Paul and had a grand plan. But, this is simply not the case.
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post #15 of 61
1/15/08 at 10:08am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I finally got to see this film on Saturday and it's still settling in. DDL's performance is certainly noteworthy, but I also thought that his turn as "Bill the Butcher" was an Oscar lock and that turned out to be untrue.

For a 2-1/2+ hour film, it moved along fairly rapidly and several shots were breathtaking including some of the early footage in the diamond mines, the early oil wells, the oil fire, & the baptism scene. During the baptism scene there were many people laughing - GREAT STUFF.

My problem with the film is similar to many others that I've read and is not specifically the ending, but the final 30 minutes or so. The tone changes dramatically when the plot fast forwards to 1927 and it feels like a completely different movie. I'm not sure what PTA could have done to improve this, but as it currently is, I found it jarring.

This is still one of the very best films of the year, and I cannot wait to see it again, but I'm not sure if I'll spend the money at the theater again or wait for DVD.
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post #16 of 61
1/15/08 at 11:31am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Interesting thoughts Patrick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Paul willingly betrays his family - his blood, for money and ambition, and no appreciable remorse of the impact it would have on his family's future.
I don't think we know enough about Paul to be sure of that. His family was messed up. The father was a brutal weakling (he let Plainview walk all over him, but he'd beat Mary for not praying), his twin brother was a con artist posing as a evangelist, plus he lived in Little Boston, which looked to be one of the most boring places in the universe, until Plainview showed up. My take is that Paul, a religious and decent person, just wanted OUT and AWAY, to live his own life somewhere else. He couldn't do that without money, and selling information to Plainview was an easy way to make money. He had no idea that Plainview would cheat his family. He probably thought that they'd make a lot of money and be set for life. His only asking for $500 was pretty selfless, compared to what his family would make.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Plainview was telling Eli the truth when he said that Paul had himself a well making $5000 a week, I think he just said that to screw with Eli's head (in one of the funniest scenes in any movie I've seen, along with the "Baptism" scene).

Oh god, I love this movie. I've seen it 3 times so far, and I plan to see it again, several times. I believe it's an instant American classic, and besides loving the movie, it's a thrill to be able to see a brand new classic in the theater, on the big screen.
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post #17 of 61
1/17/08 at 8:24am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I don't believe Eli was initially a con artist...I think he was an evangelist. Only after years of success did he succumb to temptation and become a con artist. That's speculation, but I believed that he believed in 1902 everything he said.

Though certainly Plainview was lying to Eli about Paul. He never saw him again. He was doing that to destroy Eli mentally. I do disagree that Paul didn't know what Plainview would do. The kid sold his family for $500.
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post #18 of 61
1/24/08 at 4:32pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Location Goof
Lots of Texas and California locations, beautifully shot etc.
There were some sequences however when the camera had one POV you'd be near Marfa TX and the the angle would change and suddenly there were the smooth hills of California. Probably not the sort of thing many viewers would even notice.
Now, as to the goof.
Preacher boy is headed for his first showdown (where he's about to get slapped silly) and he walks along purposefully past an oil pipe and sludge basin.
The camera angle changes and suddenly the background is...a DAM! Or perhaps it's a LEVEE buts it's NOT around in ANY other shots we see of the derrick area.
It's huge, it fills up the whole background and it's construction is obvious due to the distinctive large slabs of concrete.
Anyone else notice?
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post #19 of 61
1/26/08 at 3:52pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I saw it yesterday and was completely blown away. I'm glad I knew very little about it going in. What happens to H.W., the brother, when and where there is blood, etc. were plot points that caught me completely off guard. And that last line!! Brilliant. Just brilliant. I'm wanting to see this probably at least two more times on the big screen and I want to drag along as many friends as possible. It's rare that a film lives up to the hype, especially after being SO dissapointed by No Country For Old Men-(loved the first two hours but was very let down from the pool scene to the credits).
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post #20 of 61
1/26/08 at 7:08pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I am shocked this moving is garnering so much praise. It started well and went nowhere. Relentlessly pointless. Meandering. Daniel Day-Lewis is phenomenal but the without him, this movie would crumble under it's own girth.

A 2 hour and 38 minute movie where nothing happens. Disappointed doesn't even touch how I feel right now.

I'm finished.
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post #21 of 61
1/28/08 at 8:51pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I think someone drank Brett's milkshake.
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post #22 of 61
1/29/08 at 4:00am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by L. Anton Dencklau
I think someone drank Brett's milkshake.


No doubt. Wish I had a bowling pin right now.
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post #23 of 61
1/29/08 at 5:35am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

No doubt. Wish I had a bowling pin right now.


Out of curiosity, have you ever watched any of PTA's previous films? ...or any of Robert Altman's films per chance?

I personally thought that this film was a borderline masterpiece and after I get a chance to watch it a few more times, it will probably move up.
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post #24 of 61
1/29/08 at 9:23am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Peterson
No doubt. Wish I had a bowling pin right now.


Out of curiosity, have you ever watched any of PTA's previous films? ...or any of Robert Altman's films per chance?

I personally thought that this film was a borderline masterpiece and after I get a chance to watch it a few more times, it will probably move up.

I love Boogie Nights and Magnolia. I have seen and enjoyed several Altman flicks, too. This film is not like any of them.

No great ensemble.

No character development.

No great dialog (unless you count Plainview yelling everything).

PTA moved backwards in terms of storytelling, in my opinion.

The film has alot to offer: a fine, thrilling score, great cinematography, arresting visuals, and Daniel Day-Lewis' blistering performance.

I guess I wanted a more conventional narrative (plot point 1, plot point 2, climax). A character study is not what I expected and not what I like generally. I have been recommending it for the things I listed above but it's not something I'll watch again whereas Boogie Nights and Magnolia are films I can watch again and again (and do regularly each year).
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post #25 of 61
1/29/08 at 10:54am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Castro
A relentlessly brutal film.
While I can understand that the title leads one to expect violence, this comment is puzzling coming from someone who has seen the film. What part of it was "relentlessly brutal"? The film was rather ordinary in that regard, yet I keep hearing this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_M
I guess I wanted a more conventional narrative (polt point 1, plot point 2, climax). A character study is not what I expected and not what I like generally.
Glad to read this. A lot of people are unwilling to admit their (often wrong) expectations play a huge part in how they react to a movie.

It's a good movie, technically brilliant, but I am not sure there is truly anything underneath it all. I've read various interpretations, but none were very convincing. In the end, it felt like a Martin Scorsese flick: A near flawless study of someone that you really don't want to know (and in this case, you never do get to know).

--
H
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post #26 of 61
1/29/08 at 11:27am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_M
...it's not something I'll watch again whereas Boogie Nights and Magnolia are films I can watch again and again (and do regularly each year).
I feel the same about Boogie Nights and Magnolia (and Punch-Drunk Love too) but I also feel that way about There Will Be Blood. I've seen it 3 times and I've been itching to go back to the theater to see it again, but circumstances have conspired against it. I know I'll see it at least a few more times before it leaves the theater. As with PTA's other films, even though this one is more "simple" than the rest, every viewing has given me something else to mull over or marvel at.

I can't believe how much I love this movie! I especially can't believe how much a movie I'm obsessed with is getting critical and awards attention. That's only happened 3 other times this decade (Fellowship of the Ring, Moulin Rouge! and Brokeback Mountain) and I'm loving every second of it. The only thing that makes its probable loss bearable is that it's up against No Country For Old Men/the Coen Brothers. That's a loss I can handle with a big grin. (aw man, TWBB lost...TO THE COEN BROTHERS...WHOOO!!!)
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post #27 of 61
1/29/08 at 11:51am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Am I the only one who thought that Paul and Eli might be the same guy. Is there something in the movie that clearly indicates that they are separate characters? I had this discussion with my wife when the film was over. She disagreed but I thought at the time that Paul and Eli were the same. He was crazy.
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post #28 of 61
1/29/08 at 6:39pm

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

I think i'm with Holodem here in that i'm not quite there yet with the film. I like it a lot, I want to see it again.

i'm not sure if I go with the scorcese character study explanation, though. It certainly satisfies on that level, but that penderecki-like score, lewis performance and that bowling ally scene at the end makes me think he's after The Shining or at least Kubrick in some form. Gotta love the black comedy in there. He's literally eating slabs of meat with his bare hands by the end! Maybe we need a good essay about the american family man and the ghosts of native americans to tie it together. The elements are there for someone to make the attempt:

1.Biblical allusions, (at a minimum Cain and Abel, but i'm sure there are more),
2.Portentous character names: the son of the oil man is named H.W., paul and eli, (more biblical) Plainview...
3.Actors as filmmakers, John Huston is mentioned as the inspiration for Lewis's character, which I wouldn't have got without reading other reviews, but is it just me, or does the young actor bear more than a passing resemblance to Anderson himself?
4.Economics: manifest destiny-->great depression. (i think that's the key arc) “nothing grows on the farm”. Sinclair lewis was openly communist: although, i'm not really seeing a pro-communism argument here.
5.Recurrent Anderson themes: Bad dads, surrogate family, Ambitious Men, California

I'm sure the film would yield much more upon further inspection. It is a rich film, but I think one may have to do some prospecting before you find the vein that lets you decode it. Does anyone have any good links to other readings of the film?
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post #29 of 61
1/30/08 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
While I can understand that the title leads one to expect violence, this comment is puzzling coming from someone who has seen the film. What part of it was "relentlessly brutal"? The film was rather ordinary in that regard, yet I keep hearing this.
H

I used that term because that was one of my first thoughts coming out of it.

The overall tone of the film was unforgiving. There is no compassion or redemption in this story.

Plainview is not a nice man. He is a hard man with a brutal nature.

The geography of the land through out the film is a brutal one. This land is not soft and it is unforgiving. These characters lived hard unforgiving lives and the term brutal is what came to mind.
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post #30 of 61
1/30/08 at 9:16am

Re: *** Official THERE WILL BE BLOOD Discussion Thread

Thanks for clarifying. Evidently I took the word literally.

--
H
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