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Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

post #1 of 262
Thread Starter 
Lots of HD DVD collectors at HTF have expressed, understandably, their frustration with Warner's recent decision given the potential obselescence of their HD collection and hardware given the money they've invested. And this is true even for many who also see the advantage of the industry finally having a viable single-HD format. Even though HD DVD players will continue working for some time, and nothing is going to stop those 5" discs from putting out the great 1080p picture they did before January 4th, it's understandable that an avid HD DVD collector would have some discontented emotions over Warner's decision, *especially* given Warner's public comments just a few weeks prior suggesting that they had no plans to change their format-neutral course, and given their hard-push for software sales of *both* formats this Christmas season.

I hope that describes fairly what some HD DVD owners might be feeling.

Some HTF members have already suggested that a "peace offering" of some sort fromm the BDA, such as a credit towards a BD player purchase or trade-in for HD DVD titles, would be fair given that HD DVD consumers have been handed a raw deal. I agree, and if the BDA is willing to pay Warner a nice sum to seal their BD-deal, why not offer the same courtesy to the folks ACTUALLY resonsible for HD disc media becoming a viable product in the market place: The consumers - specifically a large portion of the consumers who've already taken a great risk in helping establish a market for HD software on HD DVD, and invested their hard-earned cash to prove it.

Bill Hunt has this to say and I agree with him:

Quote:
I was thinking last night about how HD-DVD fans must be feeling right now, in the wake of Warner's announcement of their intent to go Blu-ray only later this year. We've gotten more than a few e-mails from them over the last 24 hours, as you might imagine, and they're understandably feeling a bit down right now. I have to say, however, that with just a few exceptions, they've been very classy today in accepting what most of them acknowledge is the defeat of their preferred format with good grace.

Given that, I think it would be wise at this point for the Blu-ray Disc Association and its member studios and manufacturers to make a peace offering of sorts to HD-DVD supporters. Warner and the rest of the BDA should make some kind of offer to HD-DVD enthusiasts that would allow them to exchange a few of their HD-DVD discs for Blu-ray versions of the same titles, or to provide some kind of additional discount on Blu-ray players to those who have purchased HD-DVD players prior to December 31st 2007, to help them migrate to Blu-ray more easily and painlessly. It would be a nice gesture. It's not like both camps aren't giving tons of free discs away already in "buy one get one free" offers. It might cost the BDA a little up front, but the goodwill it would generate among enthusiasts would be worth the expense, I think. It would be a nice way to welcome HD-DVD consumers into the Blu-ray fold, and it's a way to help put this format war foolishness - and the acrimony that it's inspired online - behind us. It's worth considering.

Folks, we've rallyed and made a difference before. It was HTF fans that Got Warner to embrace OAR for "family films", and the influence we've had here has gone much further than that one case study. What say you? express yourself here. Tell Warner and the BDA that a very practical way to smooth over hard feelings with an sizeable group of their HD-disc buying consumer market would be to extend a peace-offering to make switching over to blu less painful. I'd suggest to Warner and the BDA that the "pay off" to HD DVD consumers is a very, VERY profitable long-term investment: You've got a large group of early-adoptors who are avid disc-purchases and know the advantage of buying HD software over standard DVD. Those individuals will spend MUCH MUCH MORE over the next 10 years on Blu-ray Discs than the cost of a free Blu-ray player to help the transition today. And those consumsers have friends and family, who they might just convince to invest in HD disc media as well.

Warner stated publically that improving adoption and HD disc sales was one of their guiding factors in their decision to help create a single-format solution. Ok then, how about starting with your own loyal consumer base who've already put their money on the line to buy your product?

What do you think?
post #2 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I don't think it'll happen but it'd certainly be a decent thing to do. Obviously, they aren't going to replace the massive collections that some people have but if they are willing to give away 5 or 10 discs to people buying hardware, it would be a nice peace offering to offer a similar number of titles through a trade-in program of some sort to people.
post #3 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Peace Offering? great idea! I would love to see it come in the form of a royalty price break given to Toshiba so they can manufacture high quality/low priced HD DVD/Bd Combo players.

I have not only a sizable HD DVD collection I don't plan on replacing with similar Bds- but some of the discs are Imports of titles I don't expect to see showing up on Bd until the fomrat becomes the all dominant new optical standard...which I actually don't see happening as long as studios continue to release DVDs year in and year out. And if they ever did show up as imports on Bd...likely they would be region restricted (as they were on DVD).

I feel bad for the thousands of new owners that Warner just burned- if they think that HDMs can prosper in the climate they helped create, by all means offer some kind of incentive to the hesitant consumers who are probably thinking "fool me once..."
post #4 of 262
Thread Starter 

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
I feel bad for the thousands of new owners that Warner just burned- if they think that HDMs can prosper in the climate they helped create, by all means offer some kind of incentive to the hesitant consumers who are probably thinking "fool me once..."

Exactly.
post #5 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I'm going to have to be ABSOLUTELY in LOVE with another Warner movie before I buy it.


None of this blind buy, kinda liked it crap.


Effers.......


Anyways...

Heck yeah, how about $50 bucks off of a PS3 with the UPC of my families A30?
post #6 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

At the least they should provide a trade in credit towards a Blu-ray player for all of the people who just purchased a HD DVD player for Christmas. A lot of those people have got to be feeling pretty burned right now. They stand to lose a lot of money in the form of lost software sales if they don't do something for that segment of purchasers. After all, people who feel ripped off aren't about to run out and buy hardware and software from organizations that are perceived as causing their misery.
post #7 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

What's really funny is that most people that have bought a HD DVD probably never heard of Bill Hunt nor have any inclination of the intensity of this format war on the internet in which a peace offering has to be mention by Hunt in his article.
post #8 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
They stand to lose a lot of money in the form of lost software sales if they don't do something for that segment of purchasers. After all, people who feel ripped off aren't about to run out and buy hardware and software from organizations that are perceived as causing their misery.

that's the big "Duh!" that Warner can't possibly have escaped realizing.

The tens of thousands of people that just bought into HD DVD in the last couple of months are the segment just past the hardcore early adopters that will buy anything.
These people bought on price and features- and the feature was to be able to play HDMs. I don't think the majority here were concerned that it played one specific format over the other. The point was it played High Definition discs.

After being informed now that their recent purchase has had a huge part of its functionality seriously curtailed- how many are then going to rush out and drop another few hundred on a Blu-ray player?
How many are going to drop that after coming to the conclusion that based on their modest display sizes and wide viewing distances- that HD wasn't all that much anyway?

The BDA has a hard row to hoe here. Not only do they have to overcome widespread apathy from the vast majority- now they have to overcome some measure of outright resentment...from tens of thousands of HD interested, non-fanboy, consumers.
post #9 of 262
Thread Starter 

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
The BDA has a hard row to hoe here. Not only do they have to overcome widespread apathy from the vast majority- now they have to overcome some measure of outright resentment...from tens of thousands of HD interested, non-fanboy, consumers.

Paul,

what would you suggest that the BDA (and WB?) do to help mend the bridge with HD DVD enthusiast consumers? $300 towards a BD player purchase? Disc-exchange?
post #10 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Bl

I like the idea a lot. I have a PS3 and am personally glad that Blu will move forward, and I do feel badly for those who have an investment in HD-DVD that they feel has been diminished.

I don't however subscribe to the notion that Warner screwed anyone, and Warner is the bad guy in all of this. History will show that they were pivotal in eliminating a format that a fledgling market cannot support.

For the record, I would say exactly the same thing if it were HD-DVD that prevailed - I made sure that my investment in Blu was not wasted by getting a PS3, which Sony would absolutely NEVER stop producing Blu discs for, no matter what. But, I digress.

Great idea to offer something which hopefully would not be prone to abuse by non HD-DVD owners.
post #11 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I dont see it happening at all, but I'll take advantage of whatever comes of it.
post #12 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I'd take a credit towards a BluRay player purchase as long as I don't have to trade in my HD-A1 to get it.
post #13 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I wouldn't mind in-store trade-ins of Warners HD DVDs for their BD counterparts at major retailers (like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc). It'd be a big headache for the retailers, but it would bring in customers, and generate some good will and perhaps some customer loyalty to the retailer and studio in the long run.

The caveat is that if you trade in an opened HD DVD title, you get an opened BD title in return (to ward off returns without proper receipts).

Also, warn customers that the BD title might not always have all the same features and functionality of the HD DVD, and if that's an issue, they don't have to trade in the title and should keep the HD DVD if the features are more important than getting the BD counterpart.

If the onhand stock is lacking, provide customers with forms to fill out with the SKU/title that customers want to trade in, and that gives the retailers an idea of how much stock they need for the trade-in program on a monthly basis for a specific trade-in window, like 6 months or so.
post #14 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Yeah, any mechanism where you had to trade in your player would be completely silly, since for the average consumer with only one player, that really would doom their entire HD collection to obsolescence. But some sort of plan to exchange your dual-format titles for a rebate on the Blu-Ray version wouldn't be so bad. I don't see anything of the sort happening, though.

And David, I really, truly mean no offense when I say this, as I know I'll be looking to you as a huge resource in the days ahead, but how many "Now that Blu-Ray has won..." threads are you planning on starting? Since the announcement on Friday, you've averaged over two a day.
post #15 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

And then, when Warner Bros. reverses its decision next April? What then?

I mean, which studio do you trust?
And why?


Cees
post #16 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

This trade-in idea stinks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Rather than having early adopters junk their existing HD DVD collection, how about an incentive for buying a combo player? I think this would cause a lot less hassle.
post #17 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

I don't see this happening.

And what's more, it's much more likely they would provide incentives and rebates to people who haven't adopted either format yet. Those are the people they're worried about, not current HD DVD owners. It's likely their mindset would be, "Well where else will HD DVD owners go? Back to DVD?"

Right or wrong, I just don't see it happening.
post #18 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?



I'll have flying bacon along with my swapped-out discs.

I'm still waiting for RCA to exchange my CED discs for Laserdiscs.
post #19 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Bl

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ryfun
"Well where else will HD DVD owners go? Back to DVD?"
Yup, just to pi$$ off the BDA and attempt to make the format sink. Given the number of people who believe that an upconverting DVD player over HDMI is "good enough", this could succeed. HDM is actually in a very fragile place right now, and the BDA needs to do everything in their power not to irritate those who have already made the leap.
post #20 of 262
Thread Starter 

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
Yeah, any mechanism where you had to trade in your player would be completely silly, since for the average consumer with only one player, that really would doom their entire HD collection to obsolescence. But some sort of plan to exchange your dual-format titles for a rebate on the Blu-Ray version wouldn't be so bad. I don't see anything of the sort happening, though.

Yeah, I wasn't advocating for anyone having to get rid of his/her HD DVD player to get any sort of credit. My thought was more along the lines of a $300 credit towards a BD purchase of the consumer's choice... flat out. I suppose how one would demonstrate that they were or weren't an HD DVD collector to "prove" they should get the $ would be tricky. disc-exchanges for like titles makes perfect sense and would be easy since the disc is its own proof.

Quote:
And David, I really, truly mean no offense when I say this, as I know I'll be looking to you as a huge resource in the days ahead, but how many "Now that Blu-Ray has won..." threads are you planning on starting? Since the announcement on Friday, you've averaged over two a day.

Well, since Friday, there's been a lot to talk about.
post #21 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

How about Toshiba offers up a rebate($100 or so) to HD DVD owners towards the purchase of a Toshiba BR player(assuming they go that road)? Toshiba would likely do well with this as they aren't being painted as the bad guys.
post #22 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Bl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Yup, just to pi$$ off the BDA and attempt to make the format sink. Given the number of people who believe that an upconverting DVD player over HDMI is "good enough", this could succeed. HDM is actually in a very fragile place right now, and the BDA needs to do everything in their power not to irritate those who have already made the leap.

I certainly don't disagree that could and probably will happen in many cases. However, they just don't have the numbers to make any format "sink." (I'm talking specifically of current HD DVD owners here.)

I'm just saying, the BDA isn't going to worry about disgruntled HD DVD fans. Right or wrong, they're just not going to. They want to sell Blu-ray to Joe Schmoe who's still currently buying DVD and hasn't yet even begun thinking about making the switch to an HD format. Those are the people they want to adopt this format.

But the question was, "Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?"

Should they? Maybe.
Will they? Nope.
post #23 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
what would you suggest that the BDA (and WB?) do to help mend the bridge with HD DVD enthusiast consumers? $300 towards a BD player purchase? Disc-exchange?

for the 'enthusiast'? Nothing.
The term enthusiast to me implies someone who was hip to what could happen and forged ahead anyway because of the immediate benefits. I would happily label myself that way- and I'm not whining about being on the 'losing side'. I, and many others, knew full well this was a very strong possiblity.

The people that Warner is negatively impacting are the second strata of adopters and I honestly don't know what the Bd can do for them. I'm certainly not trading in my A1 (and will actually be looking to buy a spare HD DVD player in a couple months should Toshiba decline to produce a combo unit this year). I'm still paying off my $500 1.0 profile Sony player- I don't plan on putting anymore money into Bd hardware until this breaks down. On the other hand, seeing as how the build quality looks to be pretty cheap, that may not be far off anyway.

This second strata also probably hasn't compiled a large collection yet- or had time to. If they have, that means they have a lot of disposible income, so the the whole matter shouldn't have a big negative impact on them.

If the BDA thinks they can getthe average media consumers on board by sudsidizing some kind of buy-back program with the Bd CEs, that might not be a bad idea. Get those HD DVD players out of circulation, otherwise the more efficent production design of the media might not demand that format actually die off as anticipated. It could 'slumber', being supported by a few blockbuster new releases every six months, and then come back in force 5-6 years down the road, if Bd fails to capitalize on its position.

Let's say 20,000 new HD DVD owners take them up on a $200 buy back incentive- that's only another $2 million- a drop in the bucket at this point.
Of course, over the formats lifespan, how many new discs would each of those consumers have to buy to make up the $200 in royalites...and then go beyond that so that Sony and the others can start to make a profit. Are these the consumers that are likely to spend that much?

As others have, said Warner might be smart to accept trade-ins on its media...but that means the people trading them in still have to go out and drop another $300 or so on a new player.

Good luck with that.

Hate to say this- but this is why HD DVD would have been in a better position to win the peace. The primary Bd capable owner only had a PS3- a unit that retains some functionality independant of HDMs- and even in that area would likely have been supported by Sony alone for years. They would also be looking at being forced to adopt the format with the lower priced hardware.
This situation is pretty much the inverse of that- burned owners now have to buy into more expensive hardware, and their previous purchase, should Universal and Paramount bolt too, has little added functionality going forward beyond the dvd capability. Are these consumers going to be assuaged by the selling point that that new Bd player is backwards compatible too?
post #24 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Of course, everytime I read "BDA" I then think of this:
Bomb damage assessment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
post #25 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
how many "Now that Blu-Ray has won..." threads are you planning on starting?

I also noticed that DaViD has been having multiple blu orgasms, though I also appreciate the info he's providing in these, er, literary ejaculations.

Seriously, I've owned an HD DVD player for about 16 months and, frankly, the BDA owes me nothing. I spent my money. I knew what I was doing. I received good entertainment value, and I still have an excellent DVD/CD player.

I would most of all like to see one of the BDA member companies release a Blu-ray player capable of providing all the features (ethernet, PIP, internal audio decoding to analog outputs, etc.) that my first gen HD DVD player has and, of course, sell it at a competitive price. Then I'd feel comfortable purchasing a Blu-ray player.

A limited disc replacement offer with a hardware purchase, or perhaps a hardware purchase discount (with some proof of HD DVD ownership) would obviously be a nice gesture, but not expected, and would play only a minor role in my decision to go Blu.
post #26 of 262
Thread Starter 

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
I would most of all like to see one of the BDA member companies release a Blu-ray player capable of providing all the features (ethernet, PIP, internal audio decoding to analog outputs, etc.) that my first gen HD DVD player has and, of course, sell it at a competitive price. Then I'd feel comfortable purchasing a Blu-ray player.

The Panny BD50 just announced at CES does EVERYTHING BD should be able to do for the long haul:

1. 1080p24 output
2. Internal decoding of both TrudHD and DTS-HD MA
3. 7.1 *analog* output for those without HDMI
4. 1.3 HDMI bitstreaming of advanced audio codecs for external decoding
5. full profile 1.1
6. full profile 2.0

The problem? a rumored price of $699. Of course, those prices have a way of coming down quickly once the players hit the streets. At the very least, a good sign that there is actually a BD player coming to market that *does* do everything that it should. Hopefully a reasonable price tag to go along with it won't be too far behind.
post #27 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
At the very least, a good sign that there is actually a BD player coming to market that *does* do everything that it should.

when you go beyond high definition, the laws of time and space change.
18+ months for a player that finally does all it should seems whiplash inducing quick.
post #28 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

If a studio wants to offer some deal to people who were active in their BETA experiment, cool.

Otherwise, if people think they deserve something for guessing would seem silly. This would apply to BD users if the coin dropped the other way.

How soon we forget that both formats were and are in infant stage. Any one who thinks they were not being used is a well trained unit.

I'm very happy the experiment is closing in on a final candidate. Watch CES and see how the game closes with lightning speed.
post #29 of 262

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Bl

Let's see if I understand this correctly, some guy who got a $98 toshiba hd a2 and five free movies needs to be compensated because he got burned?! Are you freaking kiddin me?

How would you differentiate between this joe who hasn't shelled out any money on the format, besides the measley $98 he paid, provided of course, he hasn't already ebayed the player for a profit, and the true hd dvd enthusiast who has purchased 100 plus movies.

I think the hands down dumbest aspect of this proposal is that the BDA should compensate hd dvd owners when its toshiba that burned them, waved player prices so low, that even non HT types couldn't resist in an attempt to win this war and having failed to do, the bda should compensate them instead. Its toshiba's name on the player, its their format, any compensation made should be done thru toshiba.

How about this instead, anyone having purchased an hd dvd player in the past year can have their money refunded by toshiba? The blame is being placed on the wrong party. I knew a year ago when I bought the 360 add on that I was taking a risk, and there's not a single person on this forum or others who can claim they weren't aware of what they were doing or the risks they were taking. I deserve absolutely no compensation.
post #30 of 262
Thread Starter 

Re: Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu?

Quote:
Let's see if I understand this correctly, some guy who got a $98 toshiba hd a2 and five free movies needs to be compensated because he got burned?! Are you freaking kiddin me?

No.

But the HD DVD consumer who invested in over 200 HD DVDs deserves something (IMO).

A disc-trade-in offer would be the perfect solution as it would only compensate in proportion to the investment a consumer has in terms of software. That's an easy way to go about it. Warner could do direct-exhange for like titles. Or the BDA could work out a system for exchanges for future purchases of titles yet-to-be-released on HD DVD (like Universal titles).

I'm not suggesting what the ideal solution would be. I'm only suggesting that *some* sort of incentive/transition-offer should be made.

Quote:
How about this instead, anyone having purchased an hd dvd player in the past year can have their money refunded by toshiba? The blame is being placed on the wrong party.

Works for me. There are strong indications that the BDA is working with Toshiba now on some sort of peaceful surrender to save themselves the rigor of a death by unmarketability. It's possible that something of this nature could be a part of those negotiations.
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