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Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba - Page 2

post #31 of 73
1/6/08 at 11:12am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Good points. However, we still don't have a Blu-ray player with a level of audio support and next-gen features comparable to the basic HD DVD hardware spec.

Regarding audio yes we do. The HD DVD spec ONLY requires internal advanced audio decoding for advanced Dolby (plus and TrueHD), *not* DTS-HD MA. And the spec doesn't mandate bit-streaming over HDMI 1.3 of the raw signal... that's optional. In fact, the HD DVD spec doesn't even require full 5.1 decoding of TrueHD... just 2.0.

To your point, in fact MOST Blu-ray Disc players on the market to day do as much if not more with "advanced audio" than the HD DVD spec would require. Most of them are fully decoding TrueHD, and some also bitstream over HDMI 1.3.

Oh, and it's probably going to be pricey but Panasonic just announced their BD50 which is the first 2.0 profile player and has internal decoding for both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD.

p.s. when it comes to "PIP" or web features, I agree 100% with you. IIt's why I bought the PS3... so I could update to profile 1.1 (which I have) and eventaully 2.0 (which I will, along with DTS-HD MA deocding)
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post #32 of 73
1/6/08 at 5:31pm

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_L
(And, of course, while I join others in perceiving the Warners announcement as a "death blow," it may be presumptuous to automatically assume this is the end of the war.)
Hey, eventually a Blu-ray declaration of victory will actually be true. Maybe it's this time.
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post #33 of 73
1/7/08 at 8:40am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Thanks for the post David. It's a nice moment in a sea of classless BD triumphalism (not here so much as at AVS).
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post #34 of 73
2/19/08 at 6:10am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Toshiba : Press Releases 19 February, 2008

It seems an appropraite time to resurrect this thread.

Industry sources are telling us that after the Warner announcement, that Toshiba did indeed make an internal decision to close shop with HD DVD, but was looking to find the most graceful exit strategy and time-table. It appears that the Netflix, Best-Buy, and Walmart announcements, which were made by those retailers with the knowledge of Toshiba's ultimate plan, were the catalyst they needed.

Toshiba, thanks for helping make our HDM the best that it can be. Toshiba raised-the-bar of hardware performance while at the same time pushing the industry to lower prices. We are in a much better place for the consumer today with HDM hardware and software quality and price because of Toshiba's efforts.

Quote:
TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.
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post #35 of 73
2/19/08 at 6:28am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

"Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products"

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post #36 of 73
2/19/08 at 6:42am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Toshiba makes a classy exit. Nice to see. And I am glad the "war" is over.

Some one let me know when Blu ray is ready for prime time (a profile 2.0 machine that costs under $200 and movies that are $20) and I'll revisit the issue. Until then, back to renting SD DVD.

Dave
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post #37 of 73
2/19/08 at 8:42am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

I thought I'd chime in, heading in a different direction...and not to sound like a vulture waiting to feed on a now dead carcass, but I plan to (should there be more price drops, etc), acquire another HD-DVD player or two and fill in the remaining collection of movies I thought were too expensive.

Thankfully HD-DVD is not DiVX, and the movies won't stop playing with the defeat of this format.

I jumped in September of last year for Heroes on HD-DVD, and added to the collection (making me a 'purple' guy). I will round out my HD-DVD collection pending clearance sales happen. The format is fine, the movies are fine, and unless there is a compelling reason to buy a BD version instead, I'll pick up some HD-DVDs.
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post #38 of 73
2/19/08 at 8:43am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

I'll continue to rent and buy HD DVD until it is no longer practical. I'm with you on when BD is "ready for prime time".
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post #39 of 73
2/19/08 at 8:56am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Started with HD-DVD tried to help push the format as much as I could, alas, Sony won out in the end. Still, I enjoyed the ride. Now begins to the long process of re-buying all the Fast and the Furious movies in Blu Ray ()
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post #40 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:16am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

"but I plan to (should there be more price drops, etc), acquire another HD-DVD player or two and fill in the remaining collection of movies I thought were too expensive."

Hopefully Toshiba will be making a combo player.
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post #41 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:24am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave>h
Toshiba makes a classy exit. Nice to see. And I am glad the "war" is over.

Some one let me know when Blu ray is ready for prime time (a profile 2.0 machine that costs under $200 and movies that are $20) and I'll revisit the issue. Until then, back to renting SD DVD.

Dave


How about a stand-alone 2.0 profile player....... at ALL. Much less under $200 or movies for $20
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post #42 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:29am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

I'm still rooting for a combo player too!


Cees
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post #43 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:37am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Jeremy,

the Panny BD50 is on the way. It won't hit the $200 price point but it will provide a full featureset along with internal decoding of all advanced audio, bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3, and 7.1 analog outputs. Not bad. I'd expect it to be around $400 by this holiday season regardless of how much it streets for when it debuts. I paid $400 for my first progressive-scan DVD player in 2001. It's not a shock for me to let Panny make a little bit of return on their full-profile BD player for at least a short time before the market gets commoditized and manufacturers lose their profit margins.

As for Combo players... I would imagine that *when* Toshiba releases their first blu-ray player (it will happen), it will be a combo-player.
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post #44 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:53am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Jeremy,

the Panny BD50 is on the way. It won't hit the $200 price point but it will provide a full featureset along with internal decoding of all advanced audio, bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3, and 7.1 analog outputs. Not bad. I'd expect it to be around $400 by this holiday season regardless of how much it streets for when it debuts. I paid $400 for my first progressive-scan DVD player in 2001. It's not a shock for me to let Panny make a little bit of return on their full-profile BD player for at least a short time before the market gets commoditized and manufacturers lose their profit margins.

As for Combo players... I would imagine that *when* Toshiba releases their first blu-ray player (it will happen), it will be a combo-player.
I've been keeping my eye on the developments of that BD50 as it appears to have all of the features that I want and Panasonic is a company that I trust. Unfortunately, my TV is only 720P/1080i, and is 32 inches, as my room is not particularly big, and because of how I have to have it set up, I sit fairly close to the TV. I'm one of the few that believe, although the PQ is very important, the audio quality is what makes a truly immersive experience for me. But that Panasonic will put my Onkyo TX-SR805 to good use allowing my receiver to decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA across HDMI. I also know that people had problems with the .1 on previous Panasonics across HDMI so I am hoping they get that resolved. I would assume, however, that if your receiver does the high-res decoding, that kind of renders the problems with the Panasonic a moot point. I wonder what kind of price we'll be looking at come Christmas for that BD50. I have a kiddo on the way in just a few weeks (WOOHOOO), and the wifey might kind of sneer at anything much above $300. That Onkyo was going to be one of my last bigger purchases, at least for a while, and then Toshiba had to go and lose.
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post #45 of 73
2/19/08 at 9:56am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Jeremy,

the Panny BD50 is on the way. It won't hit the $200 price point but it will provide a full featureset along with internal decoding of all advanced audio, bitstreaming over HDMI 1.3, and 7.1 analog outputs. Not bad. I'd expect it to be around $400 by this holiday season regardless of how much it streets for when it debuts. I paid $400 for my first progressive-scan DVD player in 2001. It's not a shock for me to let Panny make a little bit of return on their full-profile BD player for at least a short time before the market gets commoditized and manufacturers lose their profit margins.

As for Combo players... I would imagine that *when* Toshiba releases their first blu-ray player (it will happen), it will be a combo-player.


Have they got a street date on the bd50 yet???


Doug
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post #46 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

EDIT... my bad... crossed posts.

I think that the BD50 is supposed to come out early/mid-summer but I'm not sure. Anyone have any good info? I know that Sony is waiting to give the BD50 a few months on the market before bringing the 2.0 profile and DTS-HD MA decoding firmware updates to the PS3.
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post #47 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
I'm one of the few that believe, although the PQ is very important, the audio quality is what makes a truly immersive experience for me. But that Panasonic will put my Onkyo TX-SR805 to good use allowing my receiver to decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA across HDMI.

I'm with you Jeremy. Lots of us with golden ears love movies too. I see nothing wrong with enjoying the audio-transparency of Blu-ray before upgrading your video chain.

When you finally get full 5.1/7.1 lossless, you won't believe your ears. It's incredible, and it's like "lifting the veil" that's muddled the fidelity of your DVDs for all these years.

BTW, be sure to pick up the Dave Matthews music Blu-ray... the 24/96 Dolby TrueHD track is beyond belief.
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post #48 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:12am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
EDIT... my bad... crossed posts.

I think that the BD50 is supposed to come out early/mid-summer but I'm not sure. Anyone have any good info? I know that Sony is waiting to give the BD50 a few months on the market before bringing the 2.0 profile and DTS-HD MA decoding firmware updates to the PS3.
So the PS3 WILL be doing DTS-HD MA decoding internally and not the core only? I didn't think it had the hardware for that.

I'm still not going to buy it, primarily because I don't want the temptation of another gaming system, I already have enough trouble keeping up with games on my 360, and here in a few weeks the 360 will be lucky to tear me away from my drooling, poop-making machine :-)

And i want a standalone player. Maybe Pioneer will make something outstanding that doesn't cost so damn much.
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post #49 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:25am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I'm with you Jeremy. Lots of us with golden ears love movies too. I see nothing wrong with enjoying the audio-transparency of Blu-ray before upgrading your video chain.

When you finally get full 5.1/7.1 lossless, you won't believe your ears. It's incredible, and it's like "lifting the veil" that's muddled the fidelity of your DVDs for all these years.

BTW, be sure to pick up the Dave Matthews music Blu-ray... the 24/96 Dolby TrueHD track is beyond belief.
Oh, I've already enjoyed lossless 7.1 on my HD DVD player with TrueHD movies like the Bourne Ultimatum sent PCM across HDMI. But, as a personal preference, I just would prefer my receiver do the decoding. I'm fairly certain the burr-brown decoders in my receiver will be superior to the ones in the player.
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post #50 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:36am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

David, I noticed you removed your reference to "the Transformers BD appearing in the Circuit City database" being "the real-deal."

I don't see it at their Website; is this just something a contact has mentioned to you?
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post #51 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
David, I noticed you removed your reference to "the Transformers BD appearing in the Circuit City database" being "the real-deal." I don't see it at their Website; is this just something a contact has mentioned to you?

Yes. A blu-ray insider (a trusted source with good reliability) has confirmed that it's real and in the pipeline. He also confirmed that the high-bit-rate AVC video encode is superior to that used for the HD DVD. It will be interesting to see if anyone can see a difference on a revealing 1080p display.

I had removed that post bcs I had responded to Doug's question about the "BD50" at first thinking he meant the BD50 for Transormers... then I re-read his question and realized he was talking about the *Panny* BD50...

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post #52 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:50am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
BTW, be sure to pick up the Dave Matthews music Blu-ray... the 24/96 Dolby TrueHD track is beyond belief.
The PCM track ain't too shabby either.
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post #53 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:56am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR
Oh, I've already enjoyed lossless 7.1 on my HD DVD player with TrueHD movies like the Bourne Ultimatum sent PCM across HDMI.
I guess you're referring to some matrixing done by your receiver, Jeremy? Unlike, say, Pan's Labyrinth (on the BD only!) or Waiting, Ultimatum is natively 5.1 not 7.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I had removed that post bcs I had responded to Doug's question about the "BD50" at first thinking he meant the BD50 for Transormers... then I re-read his question and realized he was talking about the *Panny* BD50...
Here's to enjoying both and right soon!
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post #54 of 73
2/19/08 at 10:59am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

About Panasonic's BD players...

I know the BD50 is coming, but if you're like me and don't give a rat's patooie about internet based "extras", and if you have an HDMI 1.3 receiver, then the current BD30 has everything you'll ever want. And it's a fast loader.

-Reagan
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post #55 of 73
2/19/08 at 11:03am

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I guess you're referring to some matrixing done by your receiver, Jeremy? Unlike, say, Pan's Labyrinth (on the BD only!) or Waiting, Ultimatum is natively 5.1 not 7.1.


My bad.. you are correct. I forget, I'm still fairly new to this 7.1 thing. I'm using THX Ultra Cinema 2 in my Onkyo to matrix to 7.1 the PCM 5.1 signal it's receiving from my HD-A2.
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post #56 of 73
2/19/08 at 12:20pm

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

You know. I didn't really want to buy Transformers before (since it's not quite my cup of tea as a grown-up ), but if the BD will make the ultimate reference disc (like it sounds), maybe I'll do it partly because of that. It'd be nice to have something like that to show off to friends and family so they can clearly see how much better BD can be over DVD -- and my grade school son really wants to have it at home anyhow.

Of course, I do also have the Planet Earth BD set now, and that is one stunning set to show off BD (and HDTV in general). IMHO, every enthusiast should run out and buy that set to use to evangelize their friends and families.

And oh, yes, again, I quite agree about thanking Toshiba for helping raise the bar for HDM in general and for helping drive prices lower. I would've prefered that no format war of this sort was actually fought in public, but in the end, it did serve some good purposes. Hopefully, things will start taking off real soon now that there's just one single HDM format going forward...

_Man_
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post #57 of 73
2/19/08 at 12:49pm

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagan
About Panasonic's BD players...

I know the BD50 is coming, but if you're like me and don't give a rat's patooie about internet based "extras", and if you have an HDMI 1.3 receiver, then the current BD30 has everything you'll ever want. And it's a fast loader.

-Reagan

To be honest I don't know at this point what cool internet features may come down the pipe in the future. I think the feature where you could watch an HD DVD with friends from across the country was a really innovative idea and I wouldn't want to miss out on something else cool that comes along. I want a machine that will be able to handle it no matter what it is.

Doug
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post #58 of 73
2/19/08 at 12:52pm

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Toshiba's announcement coincided with the arrival of my PS3 purchased on ebay in the States so I could play region a discs and have sacd support, so it was well timed.I fully agree with your sentiments David.I certainly don't regret my investment in HDDVD .
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post #59 of 73
2/19/08 at 12:55pm

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Yes. A blu-ray insider (a trusted source with good reliability) has confirmed that it's real and in the pipeline. He also confirmed that the high-bit-rate AVC video encode is superior to that used for the HD DVD. It will be interesting to see if anyone can see a difference on a revealing 1080p display.

Oh, I'm sure someone will see a difference whether they can see a difference or not. And who knows, there may even be a difference. I am also sure that there will be plenty of threads at HT sites talking about how the lossless audio is a vast improvement over the "transparent" compressed encode on the HD DVD. I started bracing myself for it as soon as I saw your post about Transformers on Blu-ray. Of course, I would be interested in a scientific, double-blind comparison of some type (which would be widely refuted regardless of the outcome ).

Still, I am actually glad to know that it is on the way for my Blu-brethren and for Michael Bay of course . I may even rent the Blu version to run my own "tests."
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post #60 of 73
2/19/08 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Thank-you HD DVD and Toshiba

DavidJ,

do us the honor and compare the two side-by-side when the new disc comes out. Have someone switch between them without your knowledge of which is which and report back what you see/hear.

It's not 100% double-blind, but what I usually do if I have both lossless and lossy on the same disc is set up my remote to toggle between the audio, close my eyes, and press multiple times until I lose track of which sountrack option I'm listening to. Then I guage my perceptions and open my eyes to see if my impressions are having any corrleation (showing a reliable difference) versus the lossy/lossless options.

With the 640 kbps DD on BD it's a no-brainer that lossless is always *noticably* better. Many at AVS have already reported hearing improvements with lossless over DD+ at 1500 kbps on other titles, but I'd be especially curious with transformers... it wasn't really until Transformers hit without it that suddenly we started hearing reports from "experts" telling us that DD+ was transparent.

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