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New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available... - Page 4

post #91 of 727
1/9/08 at 8:38am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Mark my words, this thing will outperform Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, and Yamaha

I am not knowing the Marantz as it's a great unit, but the Marantz and the Denon are owned by the same parent company and share a lot of common parts, thus will most likely sound the same. The featureset of the 8002 puts it right between the Denon 3808 and the 4308. I actually think featurewise the Denon 3808 is a better buy and for a small fee can be upgraded to include the equivilent of the $2000 stand alone Audyssey Pro processer. Out perform Pioneer and Yamaha? Yep. But I'd put your Marantz up against my Denon and I don't think you would be able to tell the difference as long as I have Audyssey deactivated. With Audyssey turned on I bet the Denon would win hands down.
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post #92 of 727
1/9/08 at 8:49am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Carlo,

I just got the Marantz 8002 which is HDMI 1.3, does internal advanced audio decoding, and sounds BETTER than my highly-regarded B&K receiver I had prior. Mark my words, this thing will outperform Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, and Yamaha. I'm amazed how "high end" the sound is... and online you can get the 8002 for under $1600.

I just put an order in on the Integra DTC 9.8 pre/pro for that same price and it does it all! I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing all of the new formats through this baby!

Integra Delivers Powerful DTV-9.8 Preamplifier/Processor

Integra DTC-9.8 THX Ultra2 7.1 SSP | Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

SoundStageAV.com Archives - Review: Integra DTC-9.8 Audio/Video Processor
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post #93 of 727
1/9/08 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
the Marantz and the Denon are owned by the same parent company and share a lot of common parts, thus will most likely sound the same.

They don't, and their internal design is very different (and the do not share many common parts, this is a common misunderstanding).

I sold Onkyo, Denon, and Pioneer (and had a top-denon receiver I traded back for my B&K which sounded vastly superior). Having heard all of them (and owned several), I can assure you that the sound quality of the Marantz 8002 is in league above any of these others.
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post #94 of 727
1/9/08 at 8:56am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I fully agree with David. The PS3 is the best choice for MANY reasons.

How about a BD player that has a web browser, plays games, stored high def video on a HDD, has chat, both text and video, is future proof, yada yada, so on and so forth. It's an incredibly capable machine for $400.

Also - I made the mistake of buying a 360 add-on HD DVD player. It's a complete hunk of **** if you care at all about new sound formats. I was uninformed when I made the purchase and regret it. Not only that, but the 360 running sounds like a plane taking off and is HIGHLY annoying while watching a film.

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post #95 of 727
1/9/08 at 9:24am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
The Panny 50 has 7.1 analog out and internal decoding for all advanced audio
That is good news. I'm glad Panasonic is doing that instead of taking a "we'll make you use HDMI, and we've don't care if you don't like it" attitude that some on here have suggested is ok with them.
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post #96 of 727
1/9/08 at 9:37am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
wow, grouchy.

thats all i was asking, is what reason besides, "it plays video games"
And I gave them to you. Sorry if I came across as grouchy, Tony, but I seemed to detect a "how could anyone possibly object to the weaknesses of a game console" attitude in your posts (it seems clear that you and everyone else was aware of those weaknesses before my post). That's why I made the "why should set top makers even bother" remark. Now you know why the thing is unacceptable to me. Period.
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post #97 of 727
1/9/08 at 9:59am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I'm with you Robert, the Panny DMP50 looks good, as long as it's reasonably priced. If the $599 is true, it should probably street for $100 or so less (via online options). If it really was BD 2.0 and internally decoded TrueHD/DTS-MA and output them through the 7.1 outputs (along with lossless 5.1), this would save me tremendously in not having to update my receiver. That alone would justify a higher price tag. Then my PS3 would become my bedroom BD player
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post #98 of 727
1/9/08 at 10:03am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Does the PS3 have component outputs? From what I can see there's some kind of cobbled together thing that you have to buy extra--is anyone using that effectively?

And am I reading this correctly that it won't output DD+ over optical?
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post #99 of 727
1/9/08 at 10:07am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
Does the PS3 have component outputs? From what I can see there's some kind of cobbled together thing that you have to buy extra--is anyone using that effectively?

I'm using it with no problems. It looks great. I think I had to buy it separately, but it was a few months ago and I'm no longer sure.
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post #100 of 727
1/9/08 at 10:08am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
I'm with you Robert, the Panny DMP50 looks good, as long as it's reasonably priced. If the $599 is true, it should probably street for $100 or so less (via online options). If it really was BD 2.0 and internally decoded TrueHD/DTS-MA and output them through the 7.1 outputs (along with lossless 5.1), this would save me tremendously in not having to update my receiver. That alone would justify a higher price tag.
Good point, Carlo. $599 is more than my $499 benchmark, but if it lets me keep my Anthem AVM 30, it's worth it.
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post #101 of 727
1/9/08 at 11:21am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
Does the PS3 have component outputs? From what I can see there's some kind of cobbled together thing that you have to buy extra--is anyone using that effectively?

If you're getting the PS3/40GB, you have to buy the component output breakout cables pack separately (for ~$20) -- the pack includes stereo audio output. Not sure if the PS3/80GB comes w/ it or not -- but probably not. On the bright side, you don't need additional cables for it -- other players don't generally come w/ them anyway.

Quote:
And am I reading this correctly that it won't output DD+ over optical?

This I'm not sure -- can't remember if that was a choice in the settings -- but I do get 640Kbps DD in my setup, which would in theory be better than what you normally get from DVD. I haven't really compared, but I get the impression that it does generally sound better than what I normally get from DVD.

_Man_
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post #102 of 727
1/9/08 at 11:39am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Good point, Carlo. $599 is more than my $499 benchmark, but if it lets me keep my Anthem AVM 30, it's worth it.

Yeah, the proponents for PS3 as a BD player never add "The PS3 is the most updateable BD player IF you also happen to own one of those expensive new receivers that cost a bundle to decode the HDMI audio, or are happy with lossy audio via the optical output." Given the investment in audio equipment in the previous go-around, I also think it's a much better scenario if the BD player can provide 5.1/7.1 analog outputs and also decode the advance audio streams internally. The PS3 fails in that respect, so it's never been as attractive an option for a BD player to me. If lossless audio is important to you, and more money is needed to buy a receiver that does HDMI advanced audio decoding, then the PS3 isn't quite the bargain, but a tease of good things to come.

For those on a budget but want BD, the PS3 offers half the bargain, mainly on the video side, but is relegated to DVD-quality audio if you can only handle the audio from its optical output.
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post #103 of 727
1/9/08 at 11:43am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

the 80G does NOT come with those cables.

and over optical it does NOT send DD-HD only compressed DD
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post #104 of 727
1/9/08 at 12:07pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Yeah, the proponents for PS3 as a BD player never add "The PS3 is the most updateable BD player IF you also happen to own one of those expensive new receivers that cost a bundle to decode the HDMI audio, or are happy with lossy audio via the optical output." Given the investment in audio equipment in the previous go-around, I also think it's a much better scenario if the BD player can provide 5.1/7.1 analog outputs and also decode the advance audio streams internally. The PS3 fails in that respect, so it's never been as attractive an option for a BD player to me. If lossless audio is important to you, and more money is needed to buy a receiver that does HDMI advanced audio decoding, then the PS3 isn't quite the bargain, but a tease of good things to come.

For those on a budget but want BD, the PS3 offers half the bargain, mainly on the video side, but is relegated to DVD-quality audio if you can only handle the audio from its optical output.

It probably all depends though. Yeah, you have less options w/ the PS3, but not everyone of us already own a preproc/receiver that decodes lossless via optical connection -- and some of us might not really prefer analog out from a mid-fi player or one that doesn't do other hirez formats we own, eg. SACD. I don't know when I'll actually upgrade, but when I do, I'll likely go for something (likely a preproc/preamp) that does HDMI anyway. For now, I still seem to get a modest improvement in audio w/ 640Kbps DD instead of the lower bitrate DD from DVD.

_Man_
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post #105 of 727
1/9/08 at 12:26pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I went ahead and picked up a PS3 40GB last night.

I didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but I did watch a TV-on-DVD episode. I think the thing that I found most shocking was just how great a DVD player it actually is. In the short time I had to play with it, it seems to blow my Toshiba A2 out of the water. Not so much for quality or anything else, but all the little things. I think it's slightly more responsive (just a hair), has onscreen runtime display (total, total remaining, chapter, chapter remaining), plays audio and subtitles at 1.5x speed (sometimes I watch text commentaries or bonus stuff at 1.5x speed and couldn't with my A2), and a bunch of other tiny things.

I picked it up as an option to play Blu-ray discs. I never expected to also use it as my primary DVD player. And that's not even counting the media center options. My DirecTV DVR is a piece of crap displaying photos and playing mp3's. The PS3 handles it perfectly!!!

I can't wait to try some BD discs this weekend.
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post #106 of 727
1/9/08 at 12:43pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmoney
the 80G does NOT come with those cables.

and over optical it does NOT send DD-HD only compressed DD

Thanks for the info. I'm back to waiting.
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post #107 of 727
1/9/08 at 12:50pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
I picked it up as an option to play Blu-ray discs. I never expected to also use it as my primary DVD player. And that's not even counting the media center options. My DirecTV DVR is a piece of crap displaying photos and playing mp3's. The PS3 handles it perfectly!!!

I can't wait to try some BD discs this weekend.

Couldn't agree more, Mark, even though I did intend to use it as my primary DVD player. Well, it doesn't do 4x3 squeeze/pillar box via component out though (and doesn't do region-free playback either), but I can live w/ that at this point. I will probably end up using most of the other extra functions too though probably not MP3. If I actually had a 1080p display (instead of 1080i), I'll probably make more use of the web browser too.

I'm actually tempted to pick up an extra PS3 what w/ the Sony $100-back deal (w/ a separate new Sony card for the wife).

_Man_
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post #108 of 727
1/9/08 at 6:52pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Reda
David,

I really hope your source/insider is reliable because this would be excellent news. I know that this has been a sore subject for a lot of PS3 owners. I personally don't care and have been enjoying my PS3 since I got it. In fact, I liked it so much that in addition to having one in the family room (our main TV), I bought one for my dedicated HT room as I just couldn't stand not being able to watch Blu-Rays on my 7.2 system. The second one is the bare bones PS3, yet I got it with a game, a Blu-Ray remote, Spiderman 3 in the box and 5 free Blu-Ray movies by mail all for $400...a great deal IMO!
wasnt that supposed to happen a year ago
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post #109 of 727
1/9/08 at 7:27pm
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

What, 2.0 BD live and DTS-HD MA decoding?

No... we were never told it would have come sooner than this.
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post #110 of 727
1/9/08 at 7:43pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

David,

Any idea if that will be the only component added in that upgrade or is there anything else you heard (new capabilities)? Not complaining, just curious!
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post #111 of 727
1/9/08 at 7:47pm
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Sony always seems to bundle a boat-load of updates in each new firmware version... for instance, one time they bundled 24p output, blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white, DVD upscaling, and 720p output all in one. (that was a good day :-) )

I'm sure there will be other items included. I expect that 2.0 and DTS-HD MA decoding will come together as well.

Oh, they often put lots of gaming updates in as well but I can't comment since I don't have any games.
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post #112 of 727
1/10/08 at 5:54am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

justb a clarification for me. Since the PS3 can decode dd+ internally and soon DTS-MA....all i need to hear it is a reciever with HDMI inputs right?

thanks...i am having a brain frat on this subjesct righgt now.

this could save me hundreds if it is true since i dont need a reciever that decodes these formats!!!

thanks
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post #113 of 727
1/10/08 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Exactly. As long as you have "regular" HDMI on your receiver you can stream the native or decoded PCM stream to your receiver (bcs the PS3 will be taking care of extracting the TrueHD and eventually DTS-HD MA to PCM for you internally and sending over HDMI)
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post #114 of 727
1/10/08 at 9:02am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Exactly. As long as you have "regular" HDMI on your receiver you can stream the native or decoded PCM stream to your receiver (bcs the PS3 will be taking care of extracting the TrueHD and eventually DTS-HD MA to PCM for you internally and sending over HDMI)
Pardon my ignorance of the new formats, but is there any quality degradation in that process (DD+/DTSMA -> PCM -> HDMI -> receiver) over, say, bitstreaming the codecs to a receiver that can decode those internally?

Thanks!
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post #115 of 727
1/10/08 at 9:41am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Sony always seems to bundle a boat-load of updates in each new firmware version... for instance, one time they bundled 24p output, blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white, DVD upscaling, and 720p output all in one. (that was a good day :-) )

I'm sure there will be other items included. I expect that 2.0 and DTS-HD MA decoding will come together as well.

OK, I thought so. I know the DTS MA capability is a HOT request, so I was thinking they may just release the update with that one component only so as to get it out faster. Here's to hoping!
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post #116 of 727
1/10/08 at 9:54am
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Pardon my ignorance of the new formats, but is there any quality degradation in that process (DD+/DTSMA -> PCM -> HDMI -> receiver) over, say, bitstreaming the codecs to a receiver that can decode those internally?

Thanks!

In theory no since extracting lossless to PCM is just like "unzipping" a zip file on your computer.

However, there are possible sources for sonic differences depending on where decoding take place... such as jitter affecting PCM versus bitstream data differently over HDMI, or possible additional DSP one device might apply versus another after PCM extraction.
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post #117 of 727
1/10/08 at 5:06pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I could take advantage of analog inputs, but because I enjoy the occasional PS3 exclusive (maybe, not yet, haha) and because of everythign else the PS3 has an advantage in, I picked one up.


Also, I had credit at gamestop, which I couldn't have gained anywhere else that had a stand alone.
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post #118 of 727
1/11/08 at 12:35pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Love the idea of a “Media Hub”. Didn’t know about the ability to stream audio from a computer using WiFi. Will it play nice with iTunes or just generic MP3s? Will it “stream” .jpgs from a computer as well for a slide show?
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post #119 of 727
1/11/08 at 12:49pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

looking at the online instructions, it says wmv 11 is used to get the music from
the pc to the ps3?

did i read that right?
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post #120 of 727
1/11/08 at 12:54pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

It uses something called DLNA, there are a number of softwares supported, including WMP.
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