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New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available... - Page 12

post #331 of 727
4/17/08 at 4:52am
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

What's frustrating is now that the PS3 is decoding DTS-HD MA, the *only* benefit of the Panny BD30 that I have is the constant 1080p60 signal for the JVC PJ head... used to be that its streaming of DTS-HD MA to my receiver was also another serious perk over the PS3's core-limited DTS ability.

Well... for $500 for the Panny BD30 player, I'm now seriously considering returning it (still w/in 30 days) now that the PS3 can do full DTS lossless and just going to my friend's house when I have to review BD content that's not native 1080p60 (like many BD bonus features). It seems a real waste of $500 for just that... and there's a rumor afoot that a future update for the PS3 might include scaling of BD material as well (as it already upscales DVD material). In any case... if I can hold out a little longer, $500 might also get me a 2.0 profile player as the second player. Decisions Decisions!

dave
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post #332 of 727
4/17/08 at 7:55am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H
If you want some awesome bass effects check out the opening dream sequence of Total Recall. The DTS HD HR track renders it quite well!

Also, in case anyone was worried about Die Hard 2 (AVS pointed out some players out there bitstreamed the track incorrectly as HR instead of MA), the PS3 had no trouble decoding it properly as DTS HD MA.

Sadly, I don't own TR yet. I need to pick it up, it's one of my guilty pleasures. At this point, I'm looking to pick up more Fox titles (at a discount of course) due to all of this DTS MA-HD goodness. Gonna try for Fantastic Four next.
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post #333 of 727
4/17/08 at 9:50am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Dave,

Is changing the Panny for a video processor an option? Or are prices of those too much higher?

I own the DVDO VP50, and I'm sure that would solve the problem if I had the same projector.


Cees
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post #334 of 727
4/17/08 at 5:18pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Well, have had my PS3 for a few weeks and it appears to me that my std. DVD look better then the BD which it does not make sense to me using a 1080I Mits PJ 3000, you would think that the BD would look better even if the PJ is not a 1080P, don't you think?
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post #335 of 727
4/17/08 at 5:31pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...




well seems obvious something is connected wrong or set up wrong.
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post #336 of 727
4/17/08 at 6:22pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I agree with you and have played around with the PS3 and PJ settings the only thing that I can think of is that when I calibrated the PJ settings it shows a better color and detail on stdvd, it is the item that I can think of.
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post #337 of 727
4/17/08 at 9:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Is changing the Panny for a video processor an option? Or are prices of those too much higher?

I own the DVDO VP50, and I'm sure that would solve the problem if I had the same projector.

I actually contacted the company to see if they had any b-stock units they'd sell me direct at a discount.

That was my first thought before even considering a new BD player at this point. As you say it would work perfectly... but at a minimum of twice the cost of the Panny (and I really would want HDMI 1.3 which would mean the Pro version at an even higher cost). Ugh! So many choices, and they all cost money!

My neighbor is now blu-equipped along with a 1080p PJ (right across the street) so my thought is that if I return the Panny BD30 I can watch any non-1080p60 BD SE content at his place until the PS3 comes out with an update for BD scaling or the BD50 comes out... which is the real player that I want.

dave
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post #338 of 727
4/17/08 at 10:16pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
..and just going to my friend's house when I have to review BD content that's not native 1080p60 (like many BD bonus features).

Your "1080p60"-issue is completely new to me, but then again, I use LCD (which changes the resolution very smoothly) and my 1080p-TV supports both 50/60hz. So you don´t have a TV-set, that you could use to watch those SD-extras? I doubt that you watch everything from protector anyway?
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post #339 of 727
4/18/08 at 12:46am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVid Boulet
I actually contacted the company to see if they had any b-stock units they'd sell me direct at a discount.
Although it isn't in the same range you mentioned for the Panny (and I don't know about your intended budget anyway): I happened to notice an interesting offer in the FS hardware area (at the start of the second week of this month)...

(All I can add is, that the VP50 is a marvellous machine, and if feasible, something someone like you may be able to put to very good use for years to come.)


Cees
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post #340 of 727
4/18/08 at 1:03am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
I actually contacted the company to see if they had any b-stock units they'd sell me direct at a discount.

I have an A stock NIB one I'm selling in the FS area for less than dealer cost.
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post #341 of 727
4/18/08 at 2:34am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...



That's the one I was referring to!


Cees
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post #342 of 727
4/19/08 at 4:31pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I have my PS3 connected to my Sony 51" HD RTPV via component and analog input. Also, I have the PS3 connected to my Onkyo HT-R500 via optical. Both the TV and the receiver have no HDMI inputs. Anyone know if the PS3 can output both analog audio from the TV speakers and digital audio from the receiver simultaneously in this setup? Thanks...

Gordon
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post #343 of 727
4/21/08 at 1:33pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Keeping up-to-date on the new PS3 firmware 2.3?

PS3 2.3 firmware problems with certain DTS-HD MA 7.1 decoding/downconversion to 5.1.

DTS insider explains the 7.1 back surround problem with certain New Line & Lionsgate discs in Post #693 @ AVS on the "PS3 Firmware 2.3x - Master Thread".
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny_k_at_DTS:
Hi all - I received a number of inquiries specifically about a handful of NL titles, so I thought I would help clarify.

The titles in question were encoded with embedded channel remapping coefficients, only present on those few titles. The DTS-HD codec is very flexible and provides a unique way of telling the decoder how to downmix to 5.1, specific to the 7.1 layout used when mixing took place. The goal is to make sure the 5.1 listening experience stays true to the original 7.1 mix. There were a few titles encoded in this unique way – that are perfectly valid (and do sound phenomenal). The issue at hand is specific to the system, hence the "DTS-HD Master Audio | Limited" logo. As to the next logical question, I’ll apologize in advance and say that it is not my place to comment on future PS3 firmware updates.

There are numerous other DTS-HD MA 7.1 titles out there that use standard downmixing coefficients, which do output at 7.1.
I hope this helps and that you enjoy!

Kind regards.

PS- I’m out of town, so I’m jealous you all updated your PS3s before I did ;-)

Post #740 comment by "FilmMixer":
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer:
In regards to how this new "Limited," PS3 only implementation works, this was news to me...

It has never been mentioned in any DTS literature, or their website, or in their PS3/DTS MA press release....

My advise... Leave the PS3 to output 7.1 and 5.1 and matrix decode the surrounds on the 5.1 outputs

And additional post #750 on the subject:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer:

Originally posted by CraigW:

Filmmixer,

I do agree to a point with you, but it sounds like NewLine is also using a speaker configuration that is NON standard for most 7.1 users. So I agree Sony needs to fix this, but I also think dts needs to educate the professionals using their equipement.

Other tracks with 7.1 work fine.

Every 7.1 home setup I have seen is with the addtional two speakers placed behind the listener.

Also is this strictly Sony's fault. Or does some of the blame lie with dts also? After all I am sure dts had some involvement with the development of the decoder.

Also what is the point of having these different speaker setups? Is the dts decoder now doing mixing so if the end user has a different setup that the original mixed soundfield is entact in the end.

I think this is a case where too many options are be given to the people using the tool. Has anyone ever heard the expression: Give them just enough rope to hang themselves.

I think all of your points are valid.. and just to be clear, and as far as I know, there is only one re-mastering company that is using the side surround format, and they do most of the New Line and Lionsgate work, so the amount of titles mixed in this config isn't huge.

I'll have to chew on this today... I gotta go now and finish up my home theater remix of a film I just finished

Paul
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post #344 of 727
4/21/08 at 2:00pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I read over that but I'm not sure I entirely understand what's going on. This is what I'm getting;

For most 7.1 sound mixes, the extra 2 surround channels are mixed for rear placement, so you would have 2 Side surrounds and 2 Rear surrounds. This is how, like was mentioned on AVS, every 7.1 setup I've seen is done.

Apparently some New Line and Lionsgate DTS-MA titles are mixed so that the 2 extra surrounds should emit from the sides and not the rear?

In the case of the PS3, (and only the PS3?) it chooses to downmix these specific titles' extra "side surrounds" into the existing surround channels?

That's as much as I understood. If that's the case, I have to say I'd agree with that enough, though I doubt there's any reason why Sony couldn't give an alternative if that's what people want. The only problem I have with any of it is New Line and Lionsgate, what the fuck are they doing mixing non-standard surrounds in the first place? Are we suppose to redesign our theater setups on a title by title basis now? Morons.
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post #345 of 727
4/25/08 at 2:32pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

One last side-topic comment on Live Free Or Die Hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
I would wait and just rent the PG-13 version. If only to spite Fox for not releasing the real version of the movie. Having seen the movie in the theater I can say that it's not that bad but I'd still wait to buy it until you can get the R rated version. And like you said, the re-release is inevitable so if you like the PG-13 version, you'll probably want the R rated one so why buy it twice when you don't have to.

OK, so I borrowed the 2-disc from the library. Boy did it make me mad. There were about 75 F-bombs, exactly ZERO of which added anything to the movie. Even the "yippie-ki-ay" line felt forced. If they wanted a PG-13 movie, they could've just changed all those lines in the script before shooting it and nobody would've batted an eye. If there was enough blood to earn an R rating, then it was really borderline. I doubt that the PG-13 version had any substantive violence cuts.

What a stupid waste.

At any rate, the movie was decent, but not anything I need to own.
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post #346 of 727
4/29/08 at 5:53pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Newbie here to Blu Ray, I've read a few posts on this thread and will be reading more of it. I am considering a PS3.

One thing that I'm trying to understand is the machine's ability to play PS2 games. Forgive me if it's already been discussed, from what I thought I understood, the 40gb version is supposed to be backward compatible for PS2 games, via hardware.

I saw a 40gb PS3 at Costco today and the product description card satated it was not backward compatible and won't play PS2 games.

Can someone clarify this? Perhaps it has to do with 40gb PS3 built after a certain date? Thanks! Nelson
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post #347 of 727
4/29/08 at 5:54pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

^ true. no ps2 play on the 40.
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post #348 of 727
4/30/08 at 11:43am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

IIRC, only the 20GB and 60GB models will handle PS1 and PS2 games. You'll have to look for one secondhand or just buy a PS2 in addition to the PS3 (getting a PS2 will probably be cheaper and easier).
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post #349 of 727
4/30/08 at 11:46am

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

the 80 g will do ps2 games but it is an emulator not hardware, or something to that effect.
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post #350 of 727
4/30/08 at 3:01pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
the 80 g will do ps2 games but it is an emulator not hardware, or something to that effect.

At least with the first US 60gb PS3s (I have US-model), the PS2-support was on the "hardware"-side. Euro-versions (edit: 60gb, 40gb-model doesn´t have PS2-support) got "emulator" instead. No big deal really (let´s face it; how many people really play these old PS2-games with their PS3s?), but just pointing out...
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post #351 of 727
4/30/08 at 3:14pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

I would suggest just holding onto your old PS2 if you really want to play PS2 games (for more than just a rare occasion). Even if your choice of PS3 offers 100% backward compatibility, I'm not sure it's a good idea to wear it out, etc. playing lots of PS2 games. Just because it can doesn't mean it's always a good idea to use it for everything. Besides, I'm not sure how much electricity the PS2 uses, but maybe the PS3 eats enough power over the PS2 to justify keeping your old PS2, instead of selling it, etc, if you do indeed plan to spend lots of time playing PS2 games (on top of the wear-and-tear factor).

Of course, if your old PS2 had just died, then I guess that's a different story...

_Man_
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post #352 of 727
4/30/08 at 3:46pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
I'm not sure it's a good idea to wear it out, etc. playing lots of PS2 games.

..say what?

Electronic equipments are meant to be "used"..

If your PS3 can support PS2, of course use PS3 to *everything* (BD, DVD, PS3 games, PS2 games, photos, CDs, MP3s, DivX, etc). These things don´t break (if they break, they´re faulty)

My personal "problem" is (very minor, though, since I still have Euro PS2), that since I have US PS3 (which is "NTSC only" for SD DVD/PS2), I can´t play my old PS2 games (which are all "PAL only") - even when my PS3 supports PS2-games.. (confusing? )
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post #353 of 727
4/30/08 at 4:15pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
..say what?

Electronic equipments are meant to be "used"..

If your PS3 can support PS2, of course use PS3 to *everything* (BD, DVD, PS3 games, PS2 games, photos, CDs, MP3s, DivX, etc). These things don´t break (if they break, they´re faulty)

My personal "problem" is (very minor, though, since I still have Euro PS2), that since I have US PS3 (which is "NTSC only" for SD DVD/PS2), I can´t play my old PS2 games (which are all "PAL only") - even when my PS3 supports PS2-games.. (confusing? )

I don't know about that. The PS3 is no longer just a game console, so depending on your priorities, it may well make sense to use it for what it actually does best and save the rest for some other gear you already own. For instance, it can play redbook CDs, but I have better components for that and would rather not wear out the disc transport doing that.

Remember my recent problem? My PS3's 40GB drive seems to have gone bad and needed replacement. No, it probably has nothing to do w/ how much "wear" my family has put on the PS3 (or maybe it does for all I know), but the built-in drive doesn't run very cool -- and maybe it never goes to sleep while the system is active -- and might have its useful life shortened for the usual reasons for instance. That's just one particular item that can fail in the PS3.

And while one might decide that the $$$-cost/risk-vs-convenience/use/entertainment involved is just fine and perfectly acceptable, don't forget that cost is not just $, but also wasted time/effort if/when something fails.

Anyway, just some things to consider before everyone jumps too hard on the "swiss army knife" bandwagon of the PS3. Yeah, if I have a few PS2 games that I want to play on occasion, it would certainly be nice to play them on the PS3, if possible. But if I plan on playing PS2 games a whole lot, then I'd rather stick w/ an actual PS2, if I still have one...

_Man_
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post #354 of 727
4/30/08 at 4:22pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

yea well i bought my ps3 60 to use.
it is etter then the ps2 and better then any cd player i have, well te xa1 is probably better at cd but the ps3 does sacd the xa1 doesn't.

i'm not going to have a different component for every thing i watch and listen too or play.
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post #355 of 727
4/30/08 at 4:30pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
yea well i bought my ps3 60 to use.
it is etter then the ps2 and better then any cd player i have, well te xa1 is probably better at cd but the ps3 does sacd the xa1 doesn't.

i'm not going to have a different component for every thing i watch and listen too or play.

That's fine and good for *you*. I didn't say *everyone* should not use his/her PS3 to play PS2 games, LOL. I was just pointing out the pitfalls of relying too much on the PS3 to do everything just because it can.

BTW, my PS3 doesn't do SACD. And even if it does, I doubt it can do better than my similar priced Denon, especially since I don't have a prepro that can handle SACD via HDMI (assuming that's what some PS3's do). If your PS3 only does SACD via its stereo analog output, then I seriously doubt it can compete w/ any decent standalone player for SACD playback.

Anyway, to each his/her own I guess...

_Man_
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post #356 of 727
4/30/08 at 4:45pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

sacd through hdmi.
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post #357 of 727
4/30/08 at 4:52pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
One last side-topic comment on Live Free Or Die Hard.



OK, so I borrowed the 2-disc from the library. Boy did it make me mad. There were about 75 F-bombs, exactly ZERO of which added anything to the movie. Even the "yippie-ki-ay" line felt forced. If they wanted a PG-13 movie, they could've just changed all those lines in the script before shooting it and nobody would've batted an eye. If there was enough blood to earn an R rating, then it was really borderline. I doubt that the PG-13 version had any substantive violence cuts.

What a stupid waste.

At any rate, the movie was decent, but not anything I need to own.

reALly? that many.
i thought that pg13 allowed for 1 maybe 2 F's otherwise an r rating.
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post #358 of 727
4/30/08 at 5:21pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Thanks for the PS2 game feedback guys. Well, my PS2 is still working and I agree that it makes sense to keep using it. Though it would be nice if a PS3 could also play them.

I also have sensitivity to using the PS3 for so many other functions. I once killed a PS2 from playing GTA2. I guess the constant access to the drive caused the head to missalign. I found a website with info on how to adjust the laser back, but I haven't fixed it yet. I bought a second one.

If I'm paying that much for a PS3, I'd rather not wear the drive mechanism out playing games and use it only for BD, so it's a very expensive game console. My preference is for one machine for one purpose. Too bad cause I'm really interested in playing the new upcoming Gran Turismo 5 and the new GTA looks like fun.

Does the PS3 load the game from the disc onto the HD and play it from the HD? Or does it play the game from the disc? Maybe it will make me feel better if it plays from the HD.
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post #359 of 727
4/30/08 at 7:13pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
If I'm paying that much for a PS3, I'd rather not wear the drive mechanism out playing games and use it only for BD, so it's a very expensive game console. My preference is for one machine for one purpose. Too bad cause I'm really interested in playing the new upcoming Gran Turismo 5 and the new GTA looks like fun.

Does the PS3 load the game from the disc onto the HD and play it from the HD? Or does it play the game from the disc? Maybe it will make me feel better if it plays from the HD.

I'm not too sure, but I suspect it does at least load certain parts of the (PS3) games onto the HDD and play from there. It probably depends on the game maker how that actually works out. If there are some great PS3-specific games you want to play, I wouldn't let my cautionary suggestion stop you though. Afterall, presumably, you'd be using it for what it does best in that case.

Also, when considering all this, don't forget that you do have to pay a premium for the extra feature of PS2 gaming on the PS3. There is no free lunch there. The PS3/80GB costs ~$100 more than the PS3/40GB last I checked. Yeah, you do get certain other bonuses too (like SACD playback), but if the only diff for you is the PS2 gaming, it might not make too much sense to sell your old PS2 just so you can pay the extra ~$100 for a PS3 that gives you ~80% backward compatibility (or whatever it really is) toward PS2 gaming.

FWIW, I should also emphasize that part of my own specific concern has to do w/ how much my entire family uses the PS3 since I'm not a single working guy w/ limited time on hand to use it. In the past, I've had a couple fairly reliable Toshiba DVD players get worn out w/in several years time just because my then-preschool kids spent so much time putting them through their paces (on top of our own frequent viewing routine). It really all depends...

_Man_
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post #360 of 727
4/30/08 at 7:42pm

Re: New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

Thanks for the insights Man! I'll ponder the options. It does make sense to keep my PS2 to play PS2 games. I forget, the PS3 is designed to play games. The ability to play BD discs is the delightful bonus.
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