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HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock - Page 2

post #31 of 68
1/9/08 at 7:04am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_JP
Anyone besides me hate the "Swish" cover? I can't really stand any packaging where the format is more integral to the cover than the movie art. these pre-designed covers with only a small space reserved for actual movie art reminds me too much of THIS. And we don't need to go back to that.

No, I despise all of the Swish covers. Even when the key art is nice (like Apocalypto) the Swish turned it to crap.

Disney seem to have dropped the Swish on newer releases. I think the only reason The Rock still has one is that the package was released last July in the UK, and the artwork wasn't brought up to the current style.
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post #32 of 68
1/9/08 at 7:22am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

This is great! First The Rock, then Con Air. Where is Tombstone?
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post #33 of 68
1/9/08 at 10:34am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Mike:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
So you've got to cut the UPC codes off both the SD AND the BD?! Ugh. That is going to put a lot of people off the rebate.

Paul: Do you know if it's one rebate at a time...which might necessitate making three separate purchases of Con Air, The Rock and Crimson Tide (in order to get three separate receipts)? Or, can all three be done on one form?

Yeah and it's especially vexing on the Criterion. I never bothered with the poorly-reviewed, non-anamorphic Buena Vista Rock, one of their very first DVDs. So to get the 'bate for Rock, I'll have to cut the Crit, which has no proof of purchase tabs, only one UPC. (At least all the Disney BDs I have sport two POPs.)

My understanding is that the 'bate form says one per envelope, but photocopies of the receipt are allowed. So buying all three discs at once should not be a problem.
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post #34 of 68
1/9/08 at 10:42am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH.
Again, I think you're being just a bit unreasonable about the role of the reviewer. If the reviewer (in this case me) reviews everything that's on the disc, those with a previous edition can see what's missing from an edition that they might have. The key to the review primarily is to ascertain what's on the disc in question and to evaluate what's there. As all catalog Blu-ray titles are going to be new versions of previously released discs, I think it's unreasonable to assume that assigned reviewers are necessarily going to have previous editions that they can use for comparisons (great if they do, but not remotely possible in every instance) or can get discs to others who might have them in time to meet street date (something studios really desire.) These other reviewers have assignments of their own and have limited time and deadlines of their own. And we also have to take into consideration trips to the post office and delivery time figured into all of this. Who's paying?

As I said before, in a perfect world, I would agree with you down the line, but I think it's simply impossible to believe that it's feasible in these instances which, if HDM continues as we all hope, are only going to become more common as time passes.

I think you are right on target, Matt. The time we put into reviewing as much as we do (especially if it is a season of a TV show or a multi-disc review - the 5 disc Blade Runner with 5 versions of the movie and 9 hours of extras springs to mind) - it would be near impossible to meet everyone's desire with regard to comparisons etc. I would suggest that the greatest majority of those reading reviews will want to know what they are getting with that release. I know for me, I want to know #1 - Is the movie any good (High Def crap is still crap), #2 How does it look and sound and #3 what comes extra.

BTW - I will be picking this movie up as a companion to my Criterion version.

Thanks for another great review! - When do you sleep
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post #35 of 68
1/9/08 at 11:32am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Box sets of TV shows and the uber Blade Runner are horses of different colors. TV box sets have been re-released far less than various movies and, when it does happen, they are often simply re-packagings with no new/different content (e.g., when all the Friends individual seasons were out, Warner put them all together in a complete whammy).

BR is a staggering, unprecedented project with a terrific DVD producer attached and requires its own separate category/analysis. Any fan of that movie with the coin is going to get that suitcase for content, packaging, posterity . . . and origami. It's not the same situation as a (less vaunted) catalog title's HD release when there's been a seminal SD DVD predecessor. In other words, cultish fans have been clamoring to see BR done right for years, whereas most DVD consumers were generally quite satisfied with the Crit Rock.
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post #36 of 68
1/9/08 at 12:11pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Box sets of TV shows and the uber Blade Runner are horses of different colors. TV box sets have been re-released far less than various movies and, when it does happen, they are often simply re-packagings with no new/different content (e.g., when all the Friends individual seasons were out, Warner put them all together in a complete whammy).

BR is a staggering, unprecedented project with a terrific DVD producer attached and requires its own separate category/analysis. Any fan of that movie with the coin is going to get that suitcase for content, packaging, posterity . . . and origami. It's not the same situation as a (less vaunted) catalog title's HD release when there's been a seminal SD DVD predecessor. In other words, cultish fans have been clamoring to see BR done right for years, whereas most DVD consumers were generally quite satisfied with the Crit Rock.

Blade Runner is awesome, isn't it. By far the best release of any kind in a long time...Just incredible!
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post #37 of 68
1/9/08 at 2:09pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Yeah and it's especially vexing on the Criterion. I never bothered with the poorly-reviewed, non-anamorphic Buena Vista Rock, one of their very first DVDs. So to get the 'bate for Rock, I'll have to cut the Crit, which has no proof of purchase tabs, only one UPC. (At least all the Disney BDs I have sport two POPs.)

My understanding is that the 'bate form says one per envelope, but photocopies of the receipt are allowed. So buying all three discs at once should not be a problem.

Paul: Thanks. And, yes...vexing, indeed. And I also think many will find it bothersome to be cutting up the new BD right out of the box.
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post #38 of 68
1/9/08 at 2:42pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Paul: Thanks. And, yes...vexing, indeed. And I also think many will find it bothersome to be cutting up the new BD right out of the box.

Bummers! Yeah, I hate the idea of having to cut up the cover. This was partly why I had to ask about it earlier.

_Man_
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post #39 of 68
1/9/08 at 2:49pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

on the br disc, all you will e removing is one of the small boxes above the upc bar code.

it's not that much really to remove for $10.
now the upc from the CC disc is another thing.
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post #40 of 68
1/9/08 at 2:55pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

I'm trying to think of an alternative to cutting UPCs/POP; a happy medium between, on the one hand, combatting fraud and, on the other, enabling consumers to retain their SD DVD. Anyone?

Even if I don't want to keep it long term I, obviously, like being able to retain the SD DVD, especially when it's a terrific release like the Crit Rock. (I sure wish Sony had done this for Black Hawk Down and Fox for, oh, a ton of their releases since those BDs don't include some good if not great supps.) I can now do a "double dip" recoupment and sell the SD DVD at some point if I want. (I'll be doing that for the non-anamorph Crimson Tide.)

Man, Mike et al., would you guys prefer the rebate be predicated upon sending your SD DVD back to the studio? Just curious.
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post #41 of 68
1/9/08 at 3:28pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I just have a different, more rigorous idea in mind for what reviews of prominent catalog titles should be (for instance, I think spending more paragraphs essentially reviewing/proferring one's opinions on the film itself as opposed to PQ, AQ and supps is at best misplaced and at worst presumptuous).

That sounds *less* rigorous to me. HTF reviews cover both the content and the quality of discs, and generally a thorough review of the content is going to be longer than a thorough review of the image and sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I certainly don't think it's unreasonable for someone reviewing The Rock on BD to have purchased the Criterion SD DVD at some point in the past six years that it has been available and use it for comparison purposes.

It's certainly not unreasonable that they *might* have purchased it. But it's quite unreasonable to expect that every reviewer have purchased every existing edition of every new release that he covers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
If you're not enough of a fan to have purchased the Criterion, then perhaps you're not the right guy to be reviewing the film for other reasons?

Being a fan has absolutely nothing to do with reviewing a disc. And someone who personally cares more about a particular film isn't necessarily going to be any more objective or careful when writing a review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Assuming that because something isn't proactively mentioned in the review means it's not on the disc is dicey. What if the reviewer just overlooked it in their haste?

That's certainly possible. Everyone makes mistakes. If you care enough about a release that you need to be certain of exactly what's there, then you should check multiple sources anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
And you can use USPS.com to both print postage and request pickup at your house or wherever.

As Matt mentioned, getting reviews posted ASAP is extremely important both to this site and to the studios. Usually screeners don't arrive until just before, or even sometimes after, the release date. Sure, it's not that tough to send an email out asking who most wants to review a particular disc, but you can't just re-mail a screener while other sites are already posting reviews or the release date is imminent. And that's usually the case.
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post #42 of 68
1/9/08 at 3:38pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

That sounds *less* rigorous to me.

For deep catalog titles, the argument can be made that most people are already familiar with the film. (On a personal note, I'm tired of Michael Bay-bashing. This thing some do wherein they hold their nose while talking about/reviewing Bay and/or Bruckheimer is pretentious. Bashing Michael Bay has become the admission fee to some people's "Serious Film Fan" Club.)

But it's quite unreasonable to expect that every reviewer have purchased every existing edition of every new release that he covers.

I didn't say "every." I was careful to say that I think Rock is a special--but not unique--circumstance based upon the caliber of the Crit.

Being a fan has absolutely nothing to do with reviewing a disc. And someone who personally cares more about a particular film isn't necessarily going to be any more objective or careful when writing a review.

But it does have direct bearing on whether you've purchased the heretofore best presentation of the film in question on home vid. "Objective," no--but "careful," I think so. If someone is a fan, they ostensibly care enough to be more careful/meticulous compared to someone for whom it's just another disc.

If you care enough about a release that you need to be certain of exactly what's there, then you should check multiple sources anyway.

But wouldn't it be nice if the writer's goal was to make his review a one stop shop? The pride some reviewers apparently take in their work here ought to arguably translate into my not having to go to, say, HomeTheaterSpot.com to find a more thorough review there. I've been a member here for over six years and spend quite a bit of online time here. It would be nice if I didn't have to check multiple reviews to get information that I would argue is basic.
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post #43 of 68
1/9/08 at 3:40pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

why would anyone want to send a dvd back in to get a cash rebate back?

Paul, you know the reviewers here dont get paid.

i just think you're way off on this.

you can always apply for a reveiwer spot next time one opens up.


anyway arent we supposed to discuss the Rock blu ray disc
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post #44 of 68
1/9/08 at 3:47pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I'm trying to think of an alternative to cutting UPCs/POP; a happy medium between, on the one hand, combatting fraud and, on the other, enabling consumers to retain their SD DVD. Anyone?

I'm not at home right now so can't check my other still-sealed BDs, but does the plastic sticky label that go along the top edge of the BD case usually come w/ UPC code? And in particular, does the one used for The Rock BD have it? Maybe they'd be willing to accept that instead of cutting the cover.

I seem to recall that being acceptable for certain free DVD offers back in the early days of DVD -- even though the offers asked for UPC code/POP cutouts. I even kept those sticky plastic labels inside the cases during those early years -- and most of them are probably still in those cases. In later years, many/most studios stopped putting the UPC code on that label -- and of course, there haven't been those kinds of mail-in offers either.

Quote:
Even if I don't want to keep it long term I, obviously, like being able to retain the SD DVD, especially when it's a terrific release like the Crit Rock. (I sure wish Sony had done this for Black Hawk Down and Fox for, oh, a ton of their releases since those BDs don't include some good if not great supps.) I can now do a "double dip" recoupment and sell the SD DVD at some point if I want. (I'll be doing that for the non-anamorph Crimson Tide.)

Agreed. I'll probably be using my non-16x9 The Rock DVD though I'm having a hard time locating it at the moment.

Quote:
Man, Mike et al., would you guys prefer the rebate be predicated upon sending your SD DVD back to the studio? Just curious.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you asking if we'd prefer sending the old DVD itself instead of just the UPC cutout? Why would we prefer that? Unless you mean the studio will return it back to us (along w/ the $10 check) after verifying that we own the old DVD. Well, I guess that would work better if I'm doing it w/ the Criterion DVD -- though I'm expecting to just use my non-16x9 version. Still, that would be a hassle, even if Disney accepted it, and the extra shipping cost would reduce the value of the rebate.

_Man_
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post #45 of 68
1/9/08 at 3:48pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
anyway arent we supposed to discuss the Rock blu ray disc
Agreed. I had moved on (and Tony, most of us know that "agree to disagree" means 'let's move on since we're not going to convince each other to change positions') but some have insisted upon revisiting subjects of disagreement related to the review.
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post #46 of 68
1/9/08 at 4:15pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Man:

Quote:
. . . does the plastic sticky label that go along the top edge of the BD case usually come w/ UPC code?
No, I don't think so unfortunately.

Quote:
Are you asking if we'd prefer sending the old DVD itself instead of just the UPC cutout?
LOL--I guess I hadn't thoroughly thought through this conundrum when I posed that question: the people who don't want to cut the UPC/POP are likely the same people who want to retain the disc that qualifies them for the rebate. The people who don't mind cutting the POP/UPC are likely the same people who don't want to keep the disc (in good condition) and would be willing to perhaps ship it back.

I just took a quick peep at various SD DVDs in my collection and I think we just got the unlucky luck of the draw. Early MGM, Fox and Disney SD DVDs put the POP on the back cover. However, I have Paramount titles for which the POP is the corner of the single sheet cardboard insert. And Snapper POPs are little perforated tabs in the inside of the spine. If these were Par or Warner SD DVD titles we were talking about, I think we'd be in better stead as far as UPC/POPs go.
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post #47 of 68
1/10/08 at 6:50am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Anybody compared this new U.S. blu-ray release of "THE ROCK" with the already available ones from the UK and Australia ?

Is there any difference in the films cut, the PQ, audio and the extras ?

The U.K. blu-ray had the AUDIO COMMENTARY advertised, but... it was missing. Does this release definately have the audio commentary? Thanks.

Thanks!
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post #48 of 68
1/10/08 at 10:42am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Middlemiss
I think you are right on target, Matt. The time we put into reviewing as much as we do (especially if it is a season of a TV show or a multi-disc review - the 5 disc Blade Runner with 5 versions of the movie and 9 hours of extras springs to mind) - it would be near impossible to meet everyone's desire with regard to comparisons etc. I would suggest that the greatest majority of those reading reviews will want to know what they are getting with that release. I know for me, I want to know #1 - Is the movie any good (High Def crap is still crap), #2 How does it look and sound and #3 what comes extra.

BTW - I will be picking this movie up as a companion to my Criterion version.

Thanks for another great review! - When do you sleep

exactly Neil

to me #1 is how does it look and sound #2 is how good is the film and #3 is extras, personally I spend majority of my time on #1 first and foremost

HTF is blessed with a wide range of reviewers that have different standings of those 3 items so everything is covered for all different types of readers

-Gary
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post #49 of 68
1/13/08 at 7:06am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Does anyone know if you can get the rebate form off of the Internet?
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post #50 of 68
1/17/08 at 4:03pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Does the front cover need a sticker mentioning the rebate? I bought Con Air from Walmart and there isn't a rebate sticker on front. Would the form still be inside?
Thanks
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post #51 of 68
1/17/08 at 4:18pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Never mind...found a phone number for Disney.
Thanks
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post #52 of 68
1/17/08 at 4:24pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Let us know what they say, Mark.

Is the coupon inside despite the sticker not being on the packaging?
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post #53 of 68
1/19/08 at 10:11am

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

They are sending me the forms directly.
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post #54 of 68
1/19/08 at 4:40pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
i just think you're way off on this.

Well, Paul.S, I hate to see a man with strong, salient points get his ass handed to him as he fights the good casue alone, so let me state that I concur with your complaints 100%. As I venture into this (to me) shiny new Blu-ray world, the single most critical piece of information I will be seeking from online reviews will be in regards to ported-over/not-ported-over from SD extras, just edging out video/audio quality and leaving plot synopsis and opinionation well behind in the dust. This isn't to pick a fight with any particular reviewer or review here or elsewhere, just a consideration volunteered to any reviewers concerned with how to provide maximum impact for their readers.
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post #55 of 68
1/19/08 at 6:07pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Thanks for taking a moment to post your comments, Travis. (That excellent quote in your sig from that most excellent movie is another example of a kick ass SD DVD that a review of the BD of ought IMO pay careful comparative attention to whether the plethora of supps on the Platinum Series get brought over. Knowing Fincher/if Zodiac is any indication, they'll be even more, which makes the issue even more important.)

(FWIW, I don't feel I was getting my ass handed to me . . . and that is neither meant [entirely] to denigrate the responses nor be self-aggrandizing.) To quote Axel Foley from another wicked good Bruckheimer pic, I "still gotta [lotta] ass left."

FWIW, PotC: At World's End also got a $10 coupon upgrade deal included inside the SE SD DVD version -- not sure if it was also in the regular version. However, that deal was no good for me since it seemed to only work for B&M purchase

Btw Man-Fai, it appears from Mark's posts above that you can request the rebate forms be sent to you even if there was no sticker on or form packed with the disc.

Mark, maybe you could post that Disney phone number?
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post #56 of 68
1/19/08 at 8:30pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

instead of taking over the review of the Rock, there is a feedback section just for this sort of thing.

"I don't feel I was getting my ass handed to me"
agreed, jsut different opinions.
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post #57 of 68
1/20/08 at 4:18pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
instead of taking over the review of the Rock, there is a feedback section just for this sort of thing.

They say that 'turnabout is fair play.' If so, then it's my turn to say that I don't think that's a fair comment, tony.

Several people, including yourself, proferred their responses taking issue with my comments about what a BD review of a title for which there was a feature-laden, "Director Approved" Criterion SD DVD precursor ought to be. But when someone expresses agreement with me, you intimate that those comments are inappropriate for the thread.

Another on the rebate tip: not only is $10 more than what Wherehouse.com (where I often sell CDs and DVDs) is offering for the Crit Rock but unless I'm missing it, DVD Planet's "Quote Machine" doesn't even give a price for the title.
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post #58 of 68
1/20/08 at 6:50pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

You continue to impose this opinion on this topic that is
supposed to be a review of the rock.

These reviewers do this as a coutesy
to the readers of HTF.

Again not paid and It is done in their
spare time.

If you have ideas for the forum, there is a feedback area.


It is completed unreasonable to expect them to own every version of each DVD they review.
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post #59 of 68
1/20/08 at 7:18pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

I'm not "imposing" anything, just like neither Travis' constructive criticism nor mine represent "taking over the thread." To wit, you're free to proffer your own comments about the disc itself or perhaps the rebate, instead of parrying and jousting my comments without much susbstantive explanation of your position as a collector on the topic.

I also previously re-expressed/clarified that I did not say "every" prior disc (see post #42). I have been quite clear about why I think this is a special circumstance. The Crit Rock is a very special disc. Indeed, it was the first mainstream Hollywood picture to get the "Criterion treatment" on DVD; the company's pedigree skews more towards Truffaut.

And I'd like to think that even some reviewers would take issue with this notion that their reviews are a "courtesy." I'd rather like to think that at least some of them consider it an adjunct of their passion for movies and home theater and their desire to share that. Saying it is a "courtesy" sounds too much like it's something the readership should accept in any form, whether it be of good quality or not. That's not in keeping with the spirit of the "community" you mentioned earlier.

Your straw man comments and misrepresentations may suit your own personal needs but they don't really contribute to the discussion.
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post #60 of 68
1/20/08 at 7:44pm

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
You continue to impose this opinion on this topic that is
supposed to be a review of the rock.

These reviewers do this as a coutesy
to the readers of HTF.

Again not paid and It is done in their
spare time.

If you have ideas for the forum, there is a feedback area.


It is completed unreasonable to expect them to own every version of each DVD they review.

I am with you on this one.
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