Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive! - Page 33  

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Thanks for the correction. I've always been under the impression that ICT limited the output to 480p. Guess I don't know as much as I think I do.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

And the great thing, of course, is that even if every studio were to go exclusively Blu, those HD DVD titles would still play. It's not as if they self-destruct in 60 seconds after the format wars are officially over.

What Patrick said. All you folks yearning for a quick end to the war, I hope you enjoy paying premium prices for your HDM. This is a classic case of "be sure you want what you ask for".

M.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

That argument doesn't wash. DVD had no competition and yet prices came down. There's absolutely no reason to believe HDM won't do the same. There will still be competition between the various player manufacturers and competition between the film studios software products as well as competition between retail outlets. Why is it that people think HDM should be held to a higher standard than any other product?

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Patrick, do you mean that the player that has some firmware-updates is in "Beta test mode" for you? So PS3, Toshiba - and most of the computer softwares, etc are all in their "Beta mode"? Just because they´re being improved and updated?

..Or do you refer mostly to the 1.1/2.0-issues with Blu-ray and which have been "ready" with HD DVD basically from day one? This point I would partly understand, since it´s of course very true, that Blu-ray messed up these 1.1/2.0-issues because of this format war (the format wasn´t fully ready when it was released).

I just want to make sure, that do you just place all firmware-updates and such to the one basket..


You keep saying "BD this", "BD that". I have updated my Toshiba already about 2-3 times (PS3 more than that, I´ll admit, but since it has made the player better and better all the time, I can´t honestly complain! - Keep them coming Sony..). Updating Toshiba hasn´t been as smooth as PS3, but with both, the frimware updates have been easy via Ethernet (and cable, which at least in my country many people have). I fully understand, that without computer those updates are not that easy anymore, but I doubt that we´ve a HD-player in the future that doesn´t require firmware-updates AT ALL..

Of course, at some point these updates will slow down (when the players reach the "certain level" etc), but these updates now are just completely normal evolution of technology, nothing more (but like I said, those 1.1/2.0-issues are a bit more than that, and BD can take some heat for that - not just forever like it seems in the forums).

Quite frankly I don´t care that much what the average Joe thinks about the firmware-updates. I doubt that these people want to see those PiP-extras or "funny" web based extras anyway. They just want that the main movie works. I believe that´s the case with most of the players at the moment.. I believe 1.1/2.0 are for the extras and such - not for the regular playback of the normal film..

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

As we stated prior, we are very confident of what we are hearing.

We don't anticipate Paramount or DreamWorks will be immediately
going Blu either.

Of course, in this business, all of that can change in a nano second.

As I stated previously, I'm a bit disappointed that Toshiba and these studios are
moving forward against the grain. The amount of supporting Blu-ray studios is
now overwhelming, and Toshiba could easily end this format war now.

However, with home entertainment bringing in more money than its
theatrical counterpart, there is so much at stake here. I could very
well understand the fact that Toshiba wants to continue fighting this war
at all costs. I'm just not confident it's going to do anybody any good in
the long run.

I am personally afraid retailers are going to kill HD-DVD as word has
already spread to the general public that the format is dead (though it
apparently isn't). I know I have spoken to many people that are afraid
to buy an HD-DVD title with anticipation that the remaining studios will
be Blu within a year. All of this is certainly just speculation, but you can
see how this mindset isn't good for a format that wants to continue the fight.


So, there you have it folks! There are still two formats, and until this war
is over, we are going to continue supporting HD-DVD and Blu-ray. We ask
that everyone continue to be respectful to each other's opinions. We are very
proud of the fact that discussion in this thread has risen above any similar
discussion found anywhere else.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I was a pretty big supporter of HD-DVD having both a 360 add on and an A2 before I got my PS3. But you really could see the writing on the Wall over the last few months just by looking at the dwindling release lists every week for HD-DVD disks, and the Increasing Blu Ray Release lists. So I started buying more titles on Blu and my HD-DVD purchases really stopped with the Star Trek Season 1 release. I agree that I too will not be buying any Paramount and Universal titles until this thing gets resolved. There does not need to be two formats anylonger with only two studios supporting HD-DVD.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

"Well, Universal and Paramount are sticking with HD DVD because the Warners announcement just freed up a lot of HD DVD production capacity."

Along with Rons comments about being suprised how the studios would respond makes me wonder what they'll do.

They really need to amp up the releases.

Jaws, Saving Private Ryan, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, Jurassic Park, BraveHeart,Schindlers List, Apocalypse Now,The Godfather,Star Trek,Forrest Gump,Psycho,Mulholland Drive...etc?

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Warner delaying HD-DVD new releases by three weeks

This just strikes me as petty and ass-covering - I don't see what this gets them except avoiding any embarrassment if some HD-DVD title outsells its BD counterpart one week.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Oh boy..

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Let's just keep it simple:

1. If a HDM title won't play because it needs a firmware update, that's bad thing for the Joe Average consumer. That's the unfriendliness of HDM players at this point, and right now, it's BD that has more weekly threads of titles not working on specific models because a firmware update is needed. That's not good for consumer confidence. Is it? This is the "beta-test" flavor of BD that does it no good in the eyes of the consumer.

You sell people a HDM player so that they can play HDM titles on it. You did not think that people also need to jump through hoops to simply play that title on their HDM player, but that is the case for many player owners, and it's a major turn-off, especially if they don't live and breath HDM news and look for every nugget of news pertaining to their model and incompatibility with so many of the new releases on HDM. At this time, BD gets a lot of titles out, but they also attract a lot of bad press because some BD players require a weekly firmware update just to play BD titles. That's annoying and irritating for the general public to have to deal with on a weekly basis. It's like putting in a VHS tape into a VCR and hoping the machine doesn't eat it, after a while, the confidence in that BD player plummets, and then it's suggested they pony up another $300-$600 for a "better" player from a different manufacturer? When does it end? People don't have that kind of cash to throw around and still maintain an interest in playing HDM, not when they still have SD DVD to fall back on.

2. If a new firmware provides more capabilities (bitstreaming, 1080p24hz video, etc), that's fine, the general public doesn't HAVE to get that update if they are happy with their player as-is.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I agree.....with all the negative press that HD-DVD has received in the past week (amazing how much has been covered on the subject and it's only been one week), I really don't see how the format can survive especially with only 2 studios propping it up. They may carry on for now, but eventually they're gonna walk straight into a brick wall from lack of sales caused by consumer word of mouth. From my perspective as a consumer, I certainly wouldn't want to buy into a format that already has been declared a loser by the press and has retailers questioning whether to boot it out of their chains. I'm sure that I'm not the only one thinking that.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Of course. If there´s old firmware in the player, some titles might not work. If I e.g. use old firmware (pre 2.10, I believe) with my PS3, some extras (the actual film will work) in proper 1.1 won´t work. It´s another matter if some players are not capable of playing 1.1 extras AT ALL of course (=no firmware). But - it´s also true that the very first HD DVD (yes, also Toshiba) and Blu-ray players were not very good and now basically obsolete models. They should be forgotten in this discussion.

For me = Basically normal evolution of technology.
For you = Beta-testing.

So keep the firmware-updates coming companies. We love ´em!

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

If I understand the situation (which I probably don't), Toshiba has patents and licensing rights for HD-DVD. They have a HUGE upside if HD-DVD becomes the dominant format: a guaranteed revenue stream from every single player manufacturer and/or disc manufacturer.

If Blu-Ray wins, then Toshiba is just another player in the crowded market selling players, giving a bit of their profits to their competitors in the BR camp, and condemned to fight a war of decreasing margins as players move from $1000 high-end to $50 cheapies.

And, as a business, Toshiba wouldn't be expected to just throw it in and give up on their business plan. And it might be to their benefit to cause a "HDM Apocalypse", where they fight to the bitter end so that rather than Blu-Ray winning, both formats fail. The value here, is that they don't lose marketshare to their competitors, and there's (hypothetically) an opportunity to re-engineer HDM and start anew, and try and get the winning format the second time. (yeah, this is wildly speculative. more likely, Toshiba wants as others believe to increase their value enough to get the biggest buyout from the Blu-Ray camp).

There's a big hit for Toshiba to lose, and they may be moving now not to keep from losing but to keep Blu-Ray from winning, damn the cost.

(putting my tin-foil hat on now )

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Thanks for your updates, Ronald - it's much appreciated!

When you are saying they are 'not going blu', do you mean that they are not switching completely (which seems obvious after their statements), or that they won't consider going neutral either? (both statements from Universal and Paramount avoid mentioning 'exclusive support').

I agree with you that public perception and retailers may be what forces the last remaining HDDVD studios to at least go neutral eventually.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

It is GREAT to be format neutral!!!! I can watch any Blu-ray or HD DVD title on the day it is released. No waiting for it to be released on the "other" format.

Life is good in the neutral lane! Bring on American Gangster!

Mark

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I´m going to order that also..

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Ouch! Good for WB sticking to their guns and fully backing BD. Looking forward to those earlier releases.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I paid $500 for my BD player less than a year ago without any intention of having to shell out close to the same amount of money for a basically redundant piece of hardware this soon. I just updated the firmware last month. And now I'm reading that one of my favorite movies from last year (Sunshine) won't play at all.

I'm with Patrick; that's closer to beta testing (especially irksome since I paid money for the privilege) than reasonable expectations.

Yeah, good on them for going the extra mile in treating loyal customers like second-class citizens.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Oh please, I can't believe all the rumbling we're hearing about this when what Warner is doing as they move to Blu-Ray exclusivity is far more consumer friendly and mindful of their customers than what Paramount pulled when they went with HD-DVD.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

That DaveF has a very good point. With all that is
at stake here, perhaps Toshiba would rather continue to fight
and make things harder for the Blu-ray camp with an agenda.

As in the same accusations that people placed on Microsoft,
It wouldn't be far-fetched to attempt to bring down both formats
and then starting anew.

Of course, I'm not saying that this is the case, but in a war
like this anything is possible.

As far as the question from Tomes (Tom) is concerned, I
don't have an answer. All we have been hearing privately for
the last few days is that all the HD-DVD exclusive studios are
staying the course.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

The thought of Toshiba, Paramount, and Universal adopting a 'scorched earth' policy where HDM is concerned is frightening. I still haven't decided what I intend to do with the HD DVDs I currently have, but if this is truly the tactic these companies intend to take, I have absolutely no qualms about halting all further purchases from them.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I suppose, but I just wonder, why do the delayed release at all? It's an artificial delay, since they certainly could continue to release day-and-date until their exclusive contract kicks in. What does Warner gain from it, other than gaming the numbers a little bit to show that going to BD-exclusive was the right decision: They can hypothetically show that Michael Clayton on BD outsold its HD-DVD counterpart 8-to-1, thus HD-DVD is uneconomical, without mentioning the factor that the delay played. Or they don't have to deal with someone noting that Appleseed hypothetically sold a couple hundred more units on HD-DVD in its first week.

I don't exactly think Paramount canceling items that their retail customers had ordered or destroying/warehousing already-pressed discs (which must certainly have existed) was cool either, but that doesn't make Warner's delay something to be lauded.

And entirely one guy's hypothetical situation. Don't get too worked up about it.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I dunno, the only thing I see is if you were Purple, you were going to have access to those movies regardless, so you're more likely to buy the Blu-Ray versions now - unless there is some significant extra content difference between the releases (which I have no clue about).

If you're purely red you are still getting this announced product, whereas with Paramount anyone that was Blu suddenly was getting no product from announced, manufactured, and pre-ordered product - days from release.

At least the reds are still getting the product they expected up until the complete exclusivity begins.

As for whether they're "gaming" the system to show Blu-Ray in a better light? They went Blu-Ray exclusive, you'd expect them to do otherwise? Given the fact that they were actively courted by both camps, I'm still of the mind to believe that Warner actually does want to see this war end, and throwing as much backing as they can behind their chosen format is one way of leading to that. I can't see how anyone can blame them for that.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I hope that Universal and Paramount will continue to show some corporate integrity that apparently Warner, Sony, Disney, and Fox to name a few don't have. At this point it doesn't like they are planning to run out on their customers.

It is amazing watching blu-ray supporters try to defend Warner by comparing them to Paramount. There is a huge difference. Nobody lost money on Paramount. There may have been some people who lost some titles that they wanted but no one lost money.

First, Warner executive said they could go exclusive. Warner puts out release saying they will support hd-dvd for a long time to come. Warner puts out attractive titles like HP movies and BR on hd-dvd. The sales on these were far more even with HP 5 with hd-dvd sales near 45% and BR sales about even. Also Planet Earth on hd-dvd stretches it's lead over blu-ray. Then Warner goes exclusive. I don't know if this rises to legal fraud but Warner was
selling hd-dvd under false pretenses.

Blu-ray did have more releases simply because Paramount and Universal don't put out many catalog titles even in dvd. I have a number of Paramount and Universal titles on VHS because they haven't made it to even dvd. Given some of Warner's sales on their catalog releases, I can see why they would be reluctant. A lot of titles couldn't even sell 1,000 copies combined.

I also think that if hd-dvd goes under then it hurts blu-ray. Ordinary people are going to be even more reluctant to invest in hd disks. They won't invest their money in potential lemons. You buy on dvd and you win no matter what happens. You have a disc that can be used on dvd or hd players. If you buy a blu-ray disc, it's all or nothing.

Also I don't buy this idea everyone will now want hd because there is one format. Price still matters. The majority of people want the lowest price on
a product. That's one reason Walmart did so well over Christmas. What price will Blu-ray have to meet? The price of a upconverting dvd player or around 70-100 dollars. Also the price differential on software is going to have to come down as well.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

What your saying is hypocritical- if Sony, Disney, Warner, Fox, whatever jumped to HD-DVD, would those companies suddenly be showing 'corporate integrity' as you define it? Of course not and to suggest that Universal and Paramount some how are is laughable.

And second, no one lost money because Warner went BD. Same argument applies to WB as you lament about Paramount.

When are people going to wake up and realize that this is not DivX, your HD-DVD collections aren't going to suddenly stop working at zero hour. Sure having two players isn't optimum or necessarily convenient, but it certainly isn't inconvenient to make the movie watching experience unenjoyable.

Sheesh - formats are a delivery mechanism, but I buy the damn films to enjoy, not the physical delivery system.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Its hard to burn anything when you dont have any lighter fluid left.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

When I saw Patrick's comment:


I assumed he meant that the PS3 couldn't do the on-board decoding which would require getting a new receiver which could since he said you'd need to upgrade to one which could handle lossless bitstreams (and since only HDMI 1.3 handles lossless bitstreams, that's why I mentioned 1.3 in my response). Hearing him say:


I further assumed he was talking about 1.3 since those are the very models that have 1.3 and advanced audio decoding. Standard HDMI receivers have been around for a couple of years and cross all brands.

When I clarified about the PS3 doing internal decoding he said:


to which I didn't disagree as I then understood he had just meant that the PS3 required HDMI (of some kind).

I'm not trying to argue with Patrick. I'm just trying to have a discussion, and sometimes clarifying is the way this happens. We're now clear. We're all trying to convey accurate information, so let's go easy on posters like me who are just trying to make sure we're not misunderstanding each other or the technology.



I said it was *one* of the driving forces behind the specs we all enjoy in HDM which includes many other persons who were pushing for things like 1080p24 even before consumer equipment existed to fully render it (that was my main point... that folks pushed for things that they couldn't personally realize on their own gear).

And indeed the interview with one of the leads from Toshiba at the time who was working on the the specs for their version of HDM (when our spec-wish-list for HDM was published) quoted our petition and the desired list of specs that we had put forth and said that that those requests would be considered. At the time saying things like "1080p24" and pushing for lossless high-res sound on an HD medium was touted as "extreemist" and most industry minds were telling us that those concepts would never become reality because there would never be consumer gear to take advantage of them.

There's a good chance that 1080p24 and lossless audio would still be on HD DVD and BD without our petition of specs promoted by WSR and being handed to the HDM development teams at Toshiba and Sony. But our consumer voice made an impression, and very well may have made a difference.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I find it very difficult to believe Toshiba would try and sabotage the HDM market as a whole, can you imagine the kind of animosity that would garner from the various studios, manufacturers, and retailers? It'd be a sure fire way for Toshiba to put themselves out of business.

Also, it was said WAY back in Warner's original announcement that HD-DVD titles would be delayed from the DVD and Blu-ray releases, why are you guys so shocked? I see it as a good thing, keep uninformed people from buying a dead format, while allowing those who've chosen to go down with the ship to do so. It may have been part of whatever agreement they made with Blu as well.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I think you overstep when you say that the people that chose the PS3 did this because it was cheap. This is certainly not the case for me, and for many PS3 owners. And we don't need to spend 4 digits on a receiver with the new sound formats. Amazon has the Onkyos which start at $365 for the Onkyo 605 which has internal decoding for all formats. Your post has some fact and certainly some fiction!

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Under this fairyland scenario the format war would have to go on indefinitely for everyone to feel they didn't lose money. If you actually believe that would be a good thing for HiDef optical media as a market than more power to you, but I think you'd be in the minority unless you were polling Toshiba's board of directors.

To attribute ethics or any better moral standings between the studios is ridiculous at this point. Warner abandoned customers? Fine, so did Paramount - how easily you forgive Paramount and not Warner.