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post #841 of 1635
1/9/08 at 11:38am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
If they come over to the BD side right away, well we all know Sony isn't the most magnanimous of corporate bodies, they may not get a great deal. It will be more like "yes, WB was the nail in the coffin, our format has won and you had to come crawling back to us, you'll take what we give you and like it." Okay, not quite that melodramatic, but you get the picture.

If they continue to fight for the short term, Sony will be put in a more desperate situation to try and end the war, and will be more likely to offer
to offer incentives to welcome them back into the fold.

I want this to end quickly too, but if I were in the boardroom of either Paramount or Universal, this is probably the tactic I'd espouse. I wouldn't do it too long, maybe a couple of months, depending on how quickly the BDA will move to entice you. Hold out too long and you risk really prolonging the war. There will be a point of diminishing returns on this tactic.
I just don't see this as logical but when have corporate decisions every been logical. Right now based on just the announcements, BluRay has the insurmountable lead in content and they simply need to keep trying to reduce player cost at a reasonable pace and they will win completely over time. No need to "answer" or compete with HD-DVD no matter what they do.

I don't think (hope) that is going on and that they are all trying to negotiate a peaceful end. The proposal above about Toshiba producing a combo player could work. Effectively Toshiba would produce a BR player at BR player prices and give away for free the HD-DVD functionality and Sony could give them a break on the royalties during this phase. HD-DVD exclusive studios could wait until most Blu player owners have Profile 1.1 for their IME content before switching to exclusively BD, maybe by the beginning of 2009. This would allow existing HD-DVD exclusive owners the ability to buy a backup HD-DVD player and new BluRay player for just the cost of a BluRay player.

Or they could steal back a BluRay exclusive studio and let the screaming begin anew.
post #842 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:05pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Patrick,

you're mistaken, it's actually the opposite: the PS3 *won't* bit-stream advanced audio to an outboard decoder... it will only decode internally and pass as PCM (over HDMI, as all multi-channel PCM is delviered). So you don't need a recevier with HDMI 1.3/advanced-audio decoding built-in. I bought one that *did* have that ability bcs I want to use my receiver and have that option with my future BD player that will bitstream advanced audio. For now, the PS3 doing the internal decoding will get me by.

Total quibble. And you wonder why the general public is going to care about the nuance of internal decoding vs. bitstream/outboard decoding?

The big picture: you're going to have to replace your non-HDMI receiver or pre/pro if you intend on getting 5.1/7.1 lossless audio from the PS3. That's not an attractive option for people who don't have the budget to drop 4-digits on a new HDMI-capable receiver or pre/pro just because they elected to go "cheap" with the $400 PS3 that doesn't offer 5.1/7.1 analog audio outputs. Even if you don't *need* HDMI 1.3 specifically, you're going to need some form of HDMI connectivity built into the receiver or pre/pro to get those PCM 5.1/7.1 audio tracks via HDMI. Is the general public going to want to also figure out if HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 is good enough for just that? It's enough for the general public to throw up their hands and just stick with SD DVD.
post #843 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:07pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

My fellow HD DVDers,

Let's band together
As if it were St. Crispin's Day
And ask ourselves if you had once chance, just one chance
To fight

BUY EVERY HD DVD release from here on out on release day, and NOT any BD (you can always buy it later), the studios and unconvinced spectators will witness...

Freedom!!!

Smiles. Just SOMETHING constructive.

ps. have about 300 titles, 4 players, and 30 titles on the way...and intend to pick up more through May.

Who's with me?
post #844 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:18pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumbo
Who's with me?

Well, at least Michael Bay is not with you..

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=807

"Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!"

post #845 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:33pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumbo
My fellow HD DVDers,

Let's band together
As if it were St. Crispin's Day
And ask ourselves if you had once chance, just one chance
To fight

BUY EVERY HD DVD release from here on out on release day, and NOT any BD (you can always buy it later), the studios and unconvinced spectators will witness...

Freedom!!!

Smiles. Just SOMETHING constructive.

ps. have about 300 titles, 4 players, and 30 titles on the way...and intend to pick up more through May.

Who's with me?

Sorry dude, I've put some Paramount purchases on hold until the smoke clears. I will sadly probably still snatch up Timecop, because I'm just sad like that, but every other HD-DVD purchase for me is on hold. Based on Bill Hunt's article that he just put up, those purchases may be going on moratorium.
post #846 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:56pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

And he still hasn't corrected his line about the APPLE desktop line NOT going to have BR.

Such PC ignorance of HIM.

Ok, the MacPro at least.

My guess is the iPhone Mini, if I were to SPECULATE.

And for those who were wondering:

"Warner's First DVD Title Arrives On HD DVD, May 6
[North America]

Warner Home Video has announced that the first film in the world to debut on the DVD format, Twister (1996), will at last be available to own in high-definition on the Special Edition HD DVD disc. The HD DVD is expected to be priced at $28.99 SRP a copy."

from:

HD DVD Format Blog
post #847 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:57pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Ouch!!! 300 titles?!?!?! at $15 each thats around $4500... You should promote yourself to Captain because your going down with the ship I guess you already knew that since you got 30 more on the way...

4 HD DVD players??? I almost want to pull the BS flag on that...
post #848 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:00pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I've received second hand information from someone who met with a studio head recently about the whole WB side change. I wasn't there, so I can't verify it, so take it with a grain of salt -

Essentially no money changed hands. The switch was apparently due to the following: 1) Sony, Fox, Disney were not even considering changing sides, regardless of 'payouts' being discussed; 2) All the studios, especially a couple were putting pressure on WB to make a choice to help end the stale mate so everyone (studios) could benefit; 3) The revenue from the BD sales far outweighed the HD-DVD sales for WB contrary to sales charts; 4) BD is seen as the revolutionary format with HD being seen as just an evolution with a shorter lifespan in the eyes of the BD studios; 5) consumers aren't buying into either format due to confusion; 6) the big one I'm told, because of #5, DVD sales as a result of #5 PLUS the recent 6 month trend of video games eating into DVD sales (and growing game sales, declining DVD sales) contributed to the decision to establish one format that consumers could graduate into rather than leave the studio with declining DVD sales, and no big next-gen (BD, HD) sales because of the consumer confusion and statemate of 'which one will win'.

This isn't conjecture (although #6, declining DVD sales due to video games has been a front page topic of recent, especially in Video Business magazine), fanboy-ism, or preference (I'm purple currently) just second hand information from a highly trusted source who got it direct from a studio heads mouth (and I mean head of studio, not assistant or someone down the food chain). I'd like to say the source, but unfortunately would give away my source.

Take it for what you will - apparently all the same things are being pushed onto Universal right now, but Paramount not sure since a deal was recently done with HD-DVD.
post #849 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Brian,

Thank you, but we'll stick with our story. It didn't come from
a studio head that would essentially give a cleaner explanation
of what occurred.
post #850 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_S
I'm certain many case studies will be written that about how they came to market with an incomplete product and still haven't been able to deliver features they promised 4 plus years ago and still managed to succeed. If we could ever get the unvarnished true it would be a hell of a read.

Ironically, it sounds like Sony took a page from Micro$oft w/ this one.

_Man_
post #851 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:11pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
That's what EXIF data is for! :-) All those pics were taken on 1/7...

HD DVD pics: 3:42 PM, 3:43 PM
Blu-Ray pic: 11:06 AM

If this is dpreview.com, you'd have plenty of folks pointing out that can be forged too.

_Man_
post #852 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:25pm

Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Colella
Whether the CE companies had that in mind or not is besides the point - many people are using the players for movies they've downloaded.
The original point (all so long ago) was that the average person has no problem with video quality that's even of lower quality than DVD... since many are buying these Divx DVD players to watch movies they download. It's a feature many are looking for when buying a DVD player now. Much like MP3, quality is taking a backseat to convenience and price with movies as well. This is one of the uphill battles HDM has.

That may be so right now, but I wonder how many of those people are watching those divx downloads on a big HDTV though. Would be one thing to watch crappy quality HD or decent quality DVD on a big screen, but would be quite another to watch something signficantly worse than that. I'd think most of the folks who wouldn't bother upgrading to a big HDTV are also folks who don't download divx unless they watch divx on a their computers (or some other small screen) while watching something much better on big HDTVs.

Anyway, I suspect most folks who download divx probably weren't buying DVDs anyway. They might not even have been renting much. So the studios probably weren't really counting on them for the HDM revenues anyway...

_Man_
post #853 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:37pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Ron, I want to express my gratitude to you and the mods here for sticking to your guns with regard to what went down. I know you guys have had close contacts within Warner for years, and I appreciate you putting your own reputations on the line to do what's right (by reporting the truth.)

I don't know why anyone would have doubts, as it's obvious that Warner has clearly favored the HD DVD format up until the sudden last moment switch.

I can only hope that the tenure of those who brought about this sudden decision will be the shortest in studio history.
post #854 of 1635
1/9/08 at 1:44pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Total quibble. And you wonder why the general public is going to care about the nuance of internal decoding vs. bitstream/outboard decoding?

The big picture: you're going to have to replace your non-HDMI receiver or pre/pro if you intend on getting 5.1/7.1 lossless audio from the PS3. That's not an attractive option for people who don't have the budget to drop 4-digits on a new HDMI-capable receiver or pre/pro just because they elected to go "cheap" with the $400 PS3 that doesn't offer 5.1/7.1 analog audio outputs. Even if you don't *need* HDMI 1.3 specifically, you're going to need some form of HDMI connectivity built into the receiver or pre/pro to get those PCM 5.1/7.1 audio tracks via HDMI. Is the general public going to want to also figure out if HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 is good enough for just that? It's enough for the general public to throw up their hands and just stick with SD DVD.
You can get 1.3 receivers for around $400 now.
post #855 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:00pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

So if the games market is active (which it is), target them with add-ons! AND screens.

Well technically 5 players:

2 add-ons
1 A35
2 A3s

to pair with...5 screens!
post #856 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:04pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Listen....

I can't come out and tell you everything we are hearing because
of obvious reasons and for the fact that anything can change.

Also, we are not the definitive source of information here. While
we have a lot of trust in the information we are receiving, there
are always different versions from so-called "insiders" worth
considering. Those who eventually get the story right most of
the time are those you gain trust in.

It's absolutely certain that Universal, Paramount and DreamWorks
are talking with the BDA. They would be stupid not to.

At the same time, Toshiba has been talking with the studios
still committed to HD-DVD on how to move forward.

Now I know Bill Hunt has just posted an announcement that
essentially guarantees that Paramount, Universal and DreamWorks
are extremely close to announcing they are going Blu-Ray.

I have a general idea where he is getting his information from,
but realize that we are operating off of a different channel.

I'm not saying Bill is wrong, but right now we have received
conflicting information. Toshiba is HIGHLY upbeat about moving
forward with HD-DVD right now.

So let's consider that for the moment there are now two sources
telling you two different stories coming from opposite sides of the
format spectrum. What that means to you, our readers, is that
you should continue to keep an open mind. For the moment,
you have The Digital Bits very high on these remaining studios
going Blu. That may very well be the case according to his sources.
However, we are sticking to our sources that are very optimistic
that Toshiba and their remaining HD-DVD studios are going about
business as usual.

This is not a ploy by us to give you false information that would
put HD-DVD in a favorable light. Truth of the matter be, we are
rather disturbed that HD-DVD would think about moving forward
in this manner, but if they do, I'm certain they weighed their options
carefully. We will also continue to support their format in addition to Blu-Ray.
post #857 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:12pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

But is Toshiba truly highly upbeat or just putting out a vibe that they are highly upbeat?

I may not have inside information on this type of thing, but I run a website on Arena Football, and I have contacts at all levels and know how this inside information thing works. Even the contacts who you trust will try to play you every once in awhile, especially if the ship is going down.

Hell, it happened live on ESPN a month ago in regards to Les Miles and the Michigan head football coach job.
post #858 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:20pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Toshiba is upbeat. It's not spin. As far as we know they
are not ready to throw in the towel yet.

...but keep an open mind. Retailers need to be spoken to, and
everyone involved has to regroup and come up with a game plan
before putting out any sort of definitive statements.

Don't take "silence" as a sign of defeat.

...and yes, this can change at any time and I don't say that to
give us an "out." I'm just letting you know what we are hearing,
at the moment, unoficially, prior to any announcements.
post #859 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:35pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Thank you Ron for keeping us informed as much as possible. The entire thing has been quite interesting to watch unfold, and it helps to have reliable sources like HTF to guide us through it.

My suspicion is that Toshiba and the others involved are probably going to play hardball. Ultimately, it may be the market that decides the fate of HD-DVD. I second the opinion of those in this thread that believe it all depends on the consumers perception of where HD-DVD stands.
post #860 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:38pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austan
Ouch!!! 300 titles?!?!?! at $15 each thats around $4500... You should promote yourself to Captain because your going down with the ship I guess you already knew that since you got 30 more on the way...

4 HD DVD players??? I almost want to pull the BS flag on that...


Thats really rude actually.

I've got 3 HD-DVD players and 93 titles (also have 3 PS3s and 160 BDs) and have paid considerable more than $4500 as its all imported from the USA to the UK. So I have a considerable investment in HD-DVD. That said, I am pleased that the war shows signs of being over and that its full steam ahead for blu-ray.
post #861 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:44pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Brian,

Thank you, but we'll stick with our story.

Like I said, even though my info came direct from the head of a major studio (which obviously wasn't WB), and I found it profound enough to share, since I wasn't there, I won't pass it off as fact. If I was there, I'd flat out say which studio head said it, then everyone could run with it however they chose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
It didn't come from
a studio head that would essentially give a cleaner explanation
of what occurred.

Not sure if there is a typo, but didn't quite understand what you were saying here (and maybe I'm just beat...)
post #862 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:53pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I think Ron says that his information came from people who are not as committed to studios PR like the head of a studio might be.


Cees
post #863 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:57pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I have to agree with Ronald here that Toshiba is definantly going to weigh there options after they have talked to there partners and retailers. While many of us here would love to see an end to this format war asap. The fact is that the current situation is highly fluid and could change at any moment. I am sure that there are alot of things going on behind the scences and it would be easy to guess what will happen next. I wish Toshiba would help end the war, but they are more likely to be vendictive about the entire situation and stick it out just for spite. I feel that if Toshiba prolongs the war the out come may still be the same. They just do not have enough studio support to prolong the war very much longer. It is just a shame if Toshiba prolongs the war and if they do. There is no way I will consider a Toshiba 1080p HDTV to replace my current Sony 720p HDTV. About 80% - 95% of my HDM purchases are Blu-ray and the rest is HD-DVD and a SD-DVD once in a while. While I love my HD-DVD player it is not perfect and I am reminded of that when it locks up or the sound get unsyncronized. But even with that in mind and even though I prefer Blu-ray, there is no way I will be giving up my HD-DVD collection anytime soon. I will however be looking to upgrade my HD-DVD copy of Transformers especially if the Blu-ray version has a lossless track. But for the most part I will not be replacing any of my HD-DVD discs anytime soon.

I would only hope that Toshiba would be willing to surrender if after talking to all there business partners the figure that it will serve no purpose to prolong the war. Will Toshiba do this, I guess we will find out in a few weeks or maybe a month after Toshiba figures out what there next move will be. But one thing is for certain, this format war can not last to long with only two studios backing a format. Ether Universal or Paramount will have to give in to presure to go neutral and that will most likely be all it takes and Toshiba will have no choice. The war will be over and HDM can move forward and the consumer can fell more confident about buying into HD without wondering if the side they have choosen will fail or not?

Quote:
Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!"

I hope we do not have to wait to long to have Transformers on Blu-ray. I hope we at least get Dolby True HD, DTS-HD MA or uncompressed PCM. I would definantly upgrade my HD-DVD copy if I could get lossless on Blu-ray.

Quote:
Warner Home Video has announced that the first film in the world to debut on the DVD format, Twister (1996), will at last be available to own in high-definition on the Special Edition HD DVD disc. The HD DVD is expected to be priced at $28.99 SRP a copy."

I am wondering what audio format they will include on the HD-DVD? Personally I will be picking up the Blu-ray version of Twister as this title will be available on both HD formats. Unless WB changes its mind and cuts the HD-DVD version in a month or two?
post #864 of 1635
1/9/08 at 2:58pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
I think Ron says that his information came from people who are not as committed to studios PR like the head of a studio might be.


Cees

If that's the case, appreciate the update.

The info I got wasn't actually a meeting about the format war. In fact, it was about something completely different. But with some of the other studio executives present, some how they just segued into a brief discussion about this since it was affecting their bottom line with everything. And the dialog was definitely not PR friendly (few expletives). This was an internal discussion only, not a PR event, conference or anything. In fact if it wasn't for the meeting, it'd have come across as water-cooler chatter.
post #865 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:03pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Thanks, Brian.


Cees
post #866 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:07pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Cees is correct and I'm sorry that I wasn't very clear
in my original post.
post #867 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:12pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Graham
I mean, even if Uni and Paramount stay on, it's still essentially over, but it's gonna take a while to bleed out. Hopefully the "surprise" is that they are going neutral as opposed to Blu only. That would be the fair thing for the HD only folks.

I'm holding off my Face/Off, Zodiac and Into The Wild purchases in case we're going to see delayed Blu-Ray releases of them with lossless audio.


"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
post #868 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:23pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Huh?

_Man_
post #869 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:24pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Man - watch "Animal House".

"Forget it. He's rolling..."
post #870 of 1635
1/9/08 at 3:24pm

Years from now

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the Warners,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that buys Blu-Ray with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so videophile,
This day shall gentle his theater;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they bought HD-DVD,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That bought with us upon Saint Sony's day.
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