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post #781 of 1635
1/8/08 at 7:46pm

Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
You do realize that Divx has become the format of choice for people who are sharing home movies on line right? It produces much higher quality at lower bit rates than quicktime or WMV. Most camera phones that record movies use Divx, as to many of the point and shoot still cameras that also record movies. For many people their point and shoot camera IS their home movie camera.

Doug

That's fine, but you're assuming that only a small fraction of people are using their Divx-enabled DVD players for watching movies that are downloaded? How long have dvix-enabled camcorders/cameras been around? Not as long as Divx-enabled DVD players. How about xvid? Many camcorders/cameras support that too? It's been on DVD players for many years as well and has been a popular codec for downloaded movies for a long time.

Although anecdotal, I know at least 50 people who own Divx/Xvid enabled DVD players to watch movies they download via filesharing. I've had a least a few hundered users who've asked for advice on a DVD player that'll play "movies I download off the torrents".

While you're right that there are probably many people who use these players for movies they've recorded, you can't ignore the HUGE amount of people who use them to view movies they've downloaded off of filesharing.
post #782 of 1635
1/8/08 at 7:52pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I have to say I'm rather ticked off at BR manufacturers right now. I just got back from CES, and asked several of them if they were planning to market a sub-$500 with advanced codecs sent to analog outs. Most of the reps were utterly clueless about what I was talking about, and the ones that could answer the question said no. Sony said it has no plans to market such a player (strictly HDMI output). The only NEW player I saw was a Sony prototype for BD-Live, so it sounds like that's a ways off (in other words, a full-featured BR player STILL isn't here). I thought CES was supposed to be a venue for announcing improved products, but most of these people sound content to sit on their hands.
post #783 of 1635
1/8/08 at 7:56pm

Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Colella
That's fine, but you're assuming that only a small fraction of people are using their Divx-enabled DVD players for watching movies that are downloaded? How long have dvix-enabled camcorders/cameras been around? Not as long as Divx-enabled DVD players. How about xvid? Many camcorders/cameras support that too? It's been on DVD players for many years as well and has been a popular codec for downloaded movies for a long time.

Although anecdotal, I know at least 50 people who own Divx/Xvid enabled DVD players to watch movies they download via filesharing. I've had a least a few hundered users who've asked for advice on a DVD player that'll play "movies I download off the torrents".

While you're right that there are probably many people who use these players for movies they've recorded, you can't ignore the HUGE amount of people who use them to view movies they've downloaded off of filesharing.


I actually saw the Divx camcorders and the Divx DVD player showing up about the same time. I'm not saying that people aren't using it to watch downloaded movies in the Divx format, I am saying that I don't think thats what the CE companies had in mind when they starting making compatible players.

Doug
post #784 of 1635
1/8/08 at 7:58pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I have to say I'm rather ticked off at BR manufacturers right now. I just got back from CES, and asked several of them if they were planning to market a sub-$500 with advanced codecs sent to analog outs. Most of the reps were utterly clueless about what I was talking about, and the ones that could answer the question said no. Sony said it has no plans to market such a player (strictly HDMI output). The only NEW player I saw was a Sony prototype for BD-Live, so it sounds like that's a ways off (in other words, a full-featured BR player STILL isn't here). I thought CES was supposed to be a venue for announcing improved products, but most of these people sound content to sit on their hands.

Well I think you will start to see fewer and fewer players with analog connections of any kind. Analog connections mean easy to copy.

Doug
post #785 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:02pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Well I think you will start to see fewer and fewer players with analog connections of any kind. Analog connections mean easy to copy.
Yeah, and more new hardware to force people to buy. I HATE the games these people play.
post #786 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:07pm

Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I actually saw the Divx camcorders and the Divx DVD player showing up about the same time. I'm not saying that people aren't using it to watch downloaded movies in the Divx format, I am saying that I don't think thats what the CE companies had in mind when they starting making compatible players.

Whether the CE companies had that in mind or not is besides the point - many people are using the players for movies they've downloaded.
The original point (all so long ago) was that the average person has no problem with video quality that's even of lower quality than DVD... since many are buying these Divx DVD players to watch movies they download. It's a feature many are looking for when buying a DVD player now. Much like MP3, quality is taking a backseat to convenience and price with movies as well. This is one of the uphill battles HDM has.
post #787 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:07pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio
Looks like Best Buy is focusing now on Blu-ray. Retailers mixed on impact of Warner's HD DVD snub | Beyond Binary - A blog by Ina Fried - CNET News.com Look for a change in the weekly flyer in a couple of weeks.
I thought BestBuy had been focusing on BR for the past year??? Looking through their ads every Sunday, I wondered if they even sold HD-DVD. They won't have to change their weekly flyer much to to solely promote BR.

It's probably nothing, but my observation the past 6+ months was that HD-DVD did almost nothing to promote itself, while Blu-Ray had promotions almost every week in Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target.
post #788 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:19pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Those pics don't really mean a whole lot. The Toshiba one looks like a demonstration area that wasn't being used at the time, not a general grazing area like the Blu booth pictured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
No.

I LOL'd.

Just poking fun Dave, you know I love ya.
post #789 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:19pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

We should congratulate Sony. Congratulations to Sony for being better at kickbacks than Toshiba. Your payoffs to Fox, Disney, and MGM were obviously very large to lure Disney away since they were one of the developers of hd-dvd. Your generosity knew no bounds. When Fox was threatening to walk, you generously gave them even more kickbacks. While Warner was conning their customers, you generously wrote a big check with a bunch of zeros in it. Congratulations Sony for making politicians look honest. Congratulations for making used car salesmen look like angels. Congratulations for making the payola scandals of the 50's look like chicken feed. Remember, buy Sony products they need the cash to pay off all the kickbacks.

DVD FOREVER(that is if Sony doesn't offer kickbacks to get companies to drop dvd) and down with the evil empire called bluray.
post #790 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:21pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Speaking of people that seem to be a broken record.
post #791 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:36pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisP
We should congratulate Sony. Congratulations to Sony for being better at kickbacks than Toshiba. Your payoffs to Fox, Disney, and MGM were obviously very large to lure Disney away since they were one of the developers of hd-dvd. Your generosity knew no bounds. When Fox was threatening to walk, you generously gave them even more kickbacks. While Warner was conning their customers, you generously wrote a big check with a bunch of zeros in it. Congratulations Sony for making politicians look honest. Congratulations for making used car salesmen look like angels. Congratulations for making the payola scandals of the 50's look like chicken feed. Remember, buy Sony products they need the cash to pay off all the kickbacks.

DVD FOREVER(that is if Sony doesn't offer kickbacks to get companies to drop dvd) and down with the evil empire called bluray.


Pathetic. Both TOSHIBA and SONY are guilty of offering huge wads of cash to buy loyalty. Neither party is innocent. So SONY added one more zero than TOSHIBA was willing to pay. WARNER took the best deal that was offered to them and that is as simple as it gets. It has nothing to do with loyalty, respect for the consumer, or ethics. It is always about the money and SONY was just willing to give more of it away. I'm sure that you would take the lowest offer if two parties were offering you huge wads of cash to sell your house.

To me, WARNER took the money as a hedge against the failure of HDM. They would like it to succeed and make them a lot of money, but maybe even they aren't sure that it will. To cover that possibility they take a fat payment up front and ensure that they get at least some return on investment.
post #792 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:40pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Related link (found from the AVSforum):

CES: Bill Gates Unplugged - MediaFile

"Q=Warner Brothers said last week it was backing Blu-ray exclusively. Will Microsoft remain committed to the HD DVD format even if it appears that the media companies are backing Blu-ray?
A=Certainly we supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD as Windows peripherals. The last announcement was Paramount opting for HD DVD and now this one is going the other way. I still think a format battle is going on there. Our contribution is the HDi Interactive format piece has been really well received. We hope to see that used broadly. ****I think the real competitor in the long run is digital (video) download****. Just like in music, it is going to be the biggest of the three.

Q=You kind of sound agnostic about the formats.
A=No, not really. We have definitely worked with HD DVD in a very strong fashion. Our codecs and HDi are available on the other format and we are a leader in digital download so we have some involvement in all three approaches. ****In the long run, people don’t want physical media****. You don’t say to yourself, what’s the format battle after CD. If someone tried to introduce a new music format, you’d laugh and say ‘well isn’t that my phone, my iPod and my Zune?’ And you’d be right."

So at least MS is not really worried. They want digital downloading...


I think Microsoft is dreaming if they think that digital downloads are going to replace physical media for movies anytime in the forseeable future, if ever. Firstly, the bandwidth required to download a high definition movie is simpley astounding, even on a high end cable connection it could take a day or several, compared to a couple of minutes or less for a 3 minute chunk of audio. Also, the mediums are enjoyed in distinctly different ways, movies are several hours long and best enjoyed sitting down on a comfy couch in front of a tv, in contrast to music which is ideally suited to the ipod "jukebox in your palm" approach, there is no tangable advantage to having your movies stored this way. You don't watch hundreds of movies at once and skip between them at will, not to mention the potential for catastrophic data loss if you're storing your entire movie collection on a hard disc (or perhaps ms envisions a pay for play system in which case that's even more obscene) And while ipods and the like are clearly the media of choice for music, video on these little devices is really a joke. Also, the nature of movies is more like that of books, people love to collect, I'd say that digitally downloaded movies are about as likely to replace discs as ebooks are to replace the real thing. How many years were ebooks hyped to replace books?

Sorry to go off topic here, but I just had to say, I think discs are gonna be with us for a long time.
post #793 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:50pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Well, I read that Comcast was supposed to make an announcment at CES. They were supposed to be talking about a service that would allow you to download a hi-def movie in four minutes. Downloading for the less discerning may a lot closer than people think. I'm not interested because I don't want some company having the ability to revoke permissions to watch downloaded content.
post #794 of 1635
1/8/08 at 8:54pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Samsung's got it right: Downloads are not going to kill HD, they're going to kill DVD. As the linked post says, "Digital distribution will kill standard-def physical media, not HD—people delete recorded SD content; they want to keep 'high quality' content through Blu-ray."

I think that's pretty much correct. But the people downloading and deleting SD content are going to outnumber the people collecting Blu-ray content by about twenty to one.

All this talk about bandwidth and the infeasibility of HD downloads ignores the fact that most people will be happy downloading much smaller files than what's found on a Blu-ray disc. They just don't care.

And when Blu-ray hits the ceiling and downloads take off, we'll hear all the usual suspects harping about how they warned us and the war wasn't ended soon enough to keep from killing HD media (even though right now, in an effort to appear magnanimous and lure back those lost readers, they're falling all over themselves praising the war they were lamenting as the worst thing ever to happen to movies just last week), but the fact of the matter is, that's where the market is headed because that's what the market wants. What this small minority of quality-oriented collectors here likes will not sway the mass of casual media consumers who spend orders of magnitudes more money (if the same magnitudes less in emotional and intellectual investment) than the rest of us on entertainment.
post #795 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:03pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is now Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
If it was an HD DVD player originally, why didn't it fully support HD DVD?

It was the Blu-ray Side that wasn't fully supported at the TotalHD demo. The official abbreviation for Blu-Ray is BD (Blu-ray Disc - which is what I said in the original post), not BR as everyone here keeps using.
post #796 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:12pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
I have to say I'm rather ticked off at BR manufacturers right now. I just got back from CES, and asked several of them if they were planning to market a sub-$500 with advanced codecs sent to analog outs. Most of the reps were utterly clueless about what I was talking about, and the ones that could answer the question said no. Sony said it has no plans to market such a player (strictly HDMI output). The only NEW player I saw was a Sony prototype for BD-Live, so it sounds like that's a ways off (in other words, a full-featured BR player STILL isn't here). I thought CES was supposed to be a venue for announcing improved products, but most of these people sound content to sit on their hands

I disagree 100% about forcing you to upgrade. It's a natural evolution. I'm amazed that people think they can move their video formats forwards and expect their audio decoders to stay in the previous generation. How do you think people who bought pro logic decoders felt about DVD? Same boat.

History is going to repeat itself in this hobby. Some people just need to wake up and realize this and quit complaning about something they simply can't either deal with or let go. This hobby is a technology based hobby and will evolve like crazy. The PC industry is WORSE. Spending oodles of cash to play the next game only to find out your $500 video card is not going to function well with the next gen.
post #797 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:16pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
I have to say I'm rather ticked off at BR manufacturers right now. I just got back from CES, and asked several of them if they were planning to market a sub-$500 with advanced codecs sent to analog outs. Most of the reps were utterly clueless about what I was talking about, and the ones that could answer the question said no. Sony said it has no plans to market such a player (strictly HDMI output). The only NEW player I saw was a Sony prototype for BD-Live, so it sounds like that's a ways off (in other words, a full-featured BR player STILL isn't here). I thought CES was supposed to be a venue for announcing improved products, but most of these people sound content to sit on their hands.

Agree 100%.

Why these manufactuers can't give us full-featured hardware at reasonable prices (and at or below $500 is not exactly fire-sale cheap) I don't know.

Hopefully the Panny BD50 will actually be available at your price-point even if its retail is higher.

I certainly wouldn't spend ANY money on a BD product that wasn't full-featured (lucky for me the PS3 will be upgrded for 2.0 soon). And a $500 handful of cash should be able to give you your choice of products.


p.s. regarding those pics from CES: even the NPR rep on the radio was reporting how the attendees were crawling over the Blu booth but barely anyone was venturing into the HD DVD booth
post #798 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:23pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan T.
I think Microsoft is dreaming if they think that digital downloads are going to replace physical media for movies anytime in the forseeable future, if ever. Firstly, the bandwidth required to download a high definition movie is simpley astounding, even on a high end cable connection it could take a day or several, compared to a couple of minutes or less for a 3 minute chunk of audio. Also, the mediums are enjoyed in distinctly different ways, movies are several hours long and best enjoyed sitting down on a comfy couch in front of a tv, in contrast to music which is ideally suited to the ipod "jukebox in your palm" approach, there is no tangable advantage to having your movies stored this way. You don't watch hundreds of movies at once and skip between them at will, not to mention the potential for catastrophic data loss if you're storing your entire movie collection on a hard disc (or perhaps ms envisions a pay for play system in which case that's even more obscene) And while ipods and the like are clearly the media of choice for music, video on these little devices is really a joke. Also, the nature of movies is more like that of books, people love to collect, I'd say that digitally downloaded movies are about as likely to replace discs as ebooks are to replace the real thing. How many years were ebooks hyped to replace books?

Sorry to go off topic here, but I just had to say, I think discs are gonna be with us for a long time.
I’ve posted many time on this subject so I’ll post it again. Movie downloads will never replace physical media but downloads will continue to grow and become a major source of revenue for the studios. If you don’t think the studios are very interested in downloads as a revenue stream you should think again. Downloads would have a much higher profit margin then physical media and that is very appealing to any business.

In the coming years more and more CE companies will be developing media hub appliances that will feature the downloading and storing of movies. The infrastructure while not here now is being developed. An example is Comcast announced this week that in 2008 they will be rolling out 160 megabits per second internet service option. Mentioned in the announcement, you would be able to download a two plus hour HD movie in less than four minutes.

Downloading is going to become a major player for the studios, there is simply no doubt about it.
post #799 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:41pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_S
An example is Comcast announced this week that in 2008 they will be rolling out 160 megabits per second internet service option. Mentioned in the announcement, you would be able to download a two plus hour HD movie in less than four minutes.

I doubt it. 160 megabits per second over 4 minutes yields 4.8 gigabytes, or the capacity of a single-layer DVD.

And that's assuming 100% throughput, which is highly unlikely.

If we had the ability to compress a 2 hour HD quality movie into a single-layer DVD, we wouldn't have needed HD DVD or Blu-ray.
post #800 of 1635
1/8/08 at 9:58pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Even if Comcast overstated, at 160 HD downloads are very viable.
post #801 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:03pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Absolutely. But in 4 minutes? Not a chance.

I'd say 30 minutes is probably a bit more realistic assuming greater compression than either HD DVD or Blu-ray. And that also assumes actually being able to maintain a relatively high throughput of the 160 megabit capacity, which, in practice, seems a bit unlikely. I've never met a stated maximum bandwidth network connection that actually met expectations in real world usage.
post #802 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:11pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I certainly wouldn't spend ANY money on a BD product that wasn't full-featured (lucky for me the PS3 will be upgrded for 2.0 soon). And a $500 handful of cash should be able to give you your choice of products.

But the PS3 purchase all but guarentees that you'll have to upgrade your receiver to receive lossless audio channels/bitstreams via HDMI. At this time, I wasn't keen on any of the Onkyo models, and didn't want to spend $1300+ for a Denon 3808CI or higher model simply to get lossless audio when my current pre/pro already has 5.1 analog inputs. This is the main reason I don't have a PS3 for a BD player, even if it is upgradeable to 2.0, it doesn't have analog outputs for decoded lossless audio.

But for some reason, most supporters of the PS3 never bring up that point about requiring a new receiver that handles the lossless audio via HDMI. But it'd be a sobering sticking point if someone was getting sold on the PS3, and wanted lossless audio, but didn't have (or want to buy) a new generation receiver or pre/pro that could handle the lossless audio via HDMI. Most PS3 owners either upgrade their receivers, or COMPROMISE by accepting the *gasp* lossy audio stream from the optical audio output of the PS3.
post #803 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:18pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Re: Comcast download speeds - an officemate complained to Comcast about his download speed, and after a few technicians later, he got one that basically left the entire bandwidth open to his connection for his pedestal, and he pretty much experienced downloading nirvana as everything he download pretty much just appears on his hard drive as fast as it could be written to the hard drive. I'll have to ask him if he ever ran a speed test when the gates were totally open for his connection. Sadly, Comcast noticed his download quantity was extremely high and they dropped him back down to the advertised download speed of the plan he signed up for.
post #804 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:23pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is now Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine
It was the Blu-ray Side that wasn't fully supported at the TotalHD demo. The official abbreviation for Blu-Ray is BD (Blu-ray Disc - which is what I said in the original post), not BR as everyone here keeps using.

No the first LG combo player didn't have an HD DVD logo on it because it didn't fully support HD DVD. You could play HD DVD movies but you couldn't use the menus or anything that used HDI. The player would create rudimentary menus so you could play the movie. But it was not a fully supported HD DVD player.

Doug
post #805 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:28pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
I'd say 30 minutes is probably a bit more realistic assuming greater compression than either HD DVD or Blu-ray. And that also assumes actually being able to maintain a relatively high throughput of the 160 megabit capacity, which, in practice, seems a bit unlikely. I've never met a stated maximum bandwidth network connection that actually met expectations in real world usage.
Using the numbers you posted in 40 minutes you have a file larger then what can be found on any Blu disk.
post #806 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:43pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is now Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
No the first LG combo player didn't have an HD DVD logo on it because it didn't fully support HD DVD. You could play HD DVD movies but you couldn't use the menus or anything that used HDI. The player would create rudimentary menus so you could play the movie. But it was not a fully supported HD DVD player.

Doug

Having just acquired an LG super combo drive for BD/HD/DVD (etc), with all licensed logos, I can tell you that the latest version of Power DVD Ultra included does not allow access to audio or subtitles for HD-DVD via right-click, or menu access on the video surface by mouse except, "play", but you can access special features by using the Title search method. PDU's graphic menu that appears at the bottom of the screen does however access to alternate audio and subtitles, so I was able to access all special features on Universal's The Thing. The LG software bundle also came with a firmware update app for all LG drives. Awfully decent of them to do, BTW.

Interestingly enough, playing the BD The Rock via PC today required a software update for PDU before playing. 5 minutes later, I was up and running.
post #807 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:48pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_S
Using the numbers you posted in 40 minutes you have a file larger then what can be found on any Blu disk.

Yes, that is true. But as I said, I don't believe that the 160 mbps is anything more than a maximum speed, and that in practice, 50-60% is more likely. By the way, did they say if it was over cable or some other form of distribution?

As it is now, I get impatient waiting 10 seconds trying to start a 22 minute TV show on demand, and yet I'll spend 40 minutes round trip to pick up a DVD at Best Buy. Go figure.
post #808 of 1635
1/8/08 at 10:53pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
I disagree 100% about forcing you to upgrade. It's a natural evolution.
It's not a "natural evolution". It's a conscious CHOICE by manufacturers who could very easily do otherwise. There ARE HDM players that have been doing EXACTLY what I'm asking for at the price I ask. DVD players have been doing it for 11 years. That these people have an "forget what we were doing before, we decided not to do it anymore, and too bad if you don't like it" attitude pisses me off.
post #809 of 1635
1/8/08 at 11:12pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is now Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Paynter
Having just acquired an LG super combo drive for BD/HD/DVD (etc), with all licensed logos, I can tell you that the latest version of Power DVD Ultra included does not allow access to audio or subtitles for HD-DVD via right-click, or menu access on the video surface by mouse except, "play", but you can access special features by using the Title search method. PDU's graphic menu that appears at the bottom of the screen does however access to alternate audio and subtitles, so I was able to access all special features on Universal's The Thing. The LG software bundle also came with a firmware update app for all LG drives. Awfully decent of them to do, BTW.

Interestingly enough, playing the BD The Rock via PC today required a software update for PDU before playing. 5 minutes later, I was up and running.

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about the LG stand alone combo player. The LG BH100.

Doug
post #810 of 1635
1/9/08 at 12:37am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Well, I don't know how I missed it at CES, but it looks like the Panasonic BD50 may give me what I want with respect to features. Now I'll wait to see how much it costs.
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