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Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive! - Page 51  

post #1501 of 1635
1/23/08 at 11:14am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
"One format" is the ONLY way for HD to survive (not talking downloading etc here) and certainly the ONLY way that it would ever replace the SD DVD. It´s the ONLY way to get the real masses behind HD. Period.
You state this is if it was "fact." I find it absolutely amazing how people can ignore history even if it happened only last month. Lets explore recent history shall we.
During this past year HDM hardware and software prices did a "free fall." I don't think I need to list details as these "facts" are indisputable. Why the "free fall?" I maintain that the MAJOR reason was fierce competition between two competing formats. Of course the retail price for software barely moved but astute HDM shoppers had a field day with BOGO sales that brought average prices down to as low as $9 in some cases.
So, I find it simply mind boggling that Blu-ray supporter are passionately clamoring for ONE format ONLY as the only way HDM will survive after enjoying the benefits that competing formats offered this past year. How quickly we forget.
post #1502 of 1635
1/23/08 at 11:51am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
You state this is if it was "fact."

This is how I feel, I don´t want to have two formats "forever", since I want that "one HD-format" (let´s use this term here..) will replace SD DVD one day etc. "Fact" is a pretty strong word, not sure that is it the right one here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
So, I find it simply mind boggling that Blu-ray supporter are passionately clamoring for ONE format ONLY as the only way HDM will survive after enjoying the benefits that competing formats offered this past year. How quickly we forget.

No, people don´t "forget" and of course format war has also caused some "good" - especially during its first year, but it´s time to move towards that "one format". Thank you "format war", thank you for competition and thank you that the prices have lowered down. Now it´s time to move on.

SD DVD didn´t need "competing format" and look what happened.

I believe you also forget mr. Luigi, that many of the first DVDs were non-anamorphic, no DTS, less extras etc. Prices were also lowered down eventually. Just a bit time and patience was needed. No need for "two formats".

So is it that HD DVD-fans want "two formats" and Blu-ray-fans want "one"? Perhaps the other camp believes more to their format, then?
post #1503 of 1635
1/23/08 at 12:19pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
So is it that HD DVD-fans want "two formats" and Blu-ray-fans want "one"? Perhaps the other camp believes more to their format, then?


Maybe some are tired of being told that they should just roll over and give up. Like it or not, there are still two formats and will be until the remaining studios go blu. (There is probably little doubt that this will happen). But until then I think it should be up to each individual to do what is best for himself. I, for one, still plan to buy a Blu-ray player as soon as I decide which one I want.
post #1504 of 1635
1/23/08 at 12:39pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Pannell
Like it or not, there are still two formats and will be until the remaining studios go blu. (There is probably little doubt that this will happen). But until then I think it should be up to each individual to do what is best for himself..

Fair point.
post #1505 of 1635
1/23/08 at 12:42pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I just saw today that HMV here in the UK is having a sale on Blu-Ray Discs. Hmmm... nothing says "successful thriving new format" like a half-price sale...
post #1506 of 1635
1/23/08 at 2:16pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K


SD DVD didn´t need "competing format" and look what happened.
Your right SD DVD didn't need competing formats. I bought my 1st SD DVD at Best Buy in 1998(?) for $12. The title was THIS ISLAND EARTH and I was positively ecstatic. This film is a Sci-Fi classic from the "50s and was the 1st addition to my collection that would eventually number about 500. Titles were cheap if you knew how to play the game. With me it was Columbia DVD club. I joined and rejoined with "codes" enabling you to buy titles averaging $8per title. These were new releases!!!
After having spent YEARS just renting, (I had both Betamax and VHS) it was a new found wonder to actually OWN the titles. Now...buying and owning titles is "old hat."
HDM is totally different. It's going to be a "hard sell." People are content with their SD DVD collections. I am. I still wonder why people with HD sets less than 56" buy HDM players. I don't see much difference between an upconverted picture and HD picture on my 56" 1080P set. I see the difference on my 9' screen. For HDM to survive...prices need to come down and come down FAST and the time proven way to do this is via a competitive selling process. In fact, the MORE formats...the BETTER!!
post #1507 of 1635
1/23/08 at 3:37pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

SD DVD didn't need a competing format for numerous reasons. The most obvious is economies of scale, but only slightly less obvious is that SD DVD had what HDM currently lacks: a unified manufacturing front with a unified marketing plan. This was true, at least as far as hardware went. Because HDM has been fractured from the get-go, it hasn't caught on as quickly. Add to that the fact that the collector movement began with the reduction of VHS prices (and to a smaller extent, the LD "movement') and DVD made good on the promise of collectability in smaller spaces and DVD was a no-brainer. I would mention quality, but that was even more of a no-brainer.

Even if BD has won the "war" at this point, it's still going to have to make clear to the average consumer why the upgrade is "necessary", something it has failed to do so far.
post #1508 of 1635
1/23/08 at 5:28pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I don't remember any major CE format/product that had such a clear air of being unfinished as Blu-ray has had. It's one thing to say that there will be future enhancements. It's quite another to say that the players on sale for more than a year are already two major generations away from where players will be within a year. In addition, a major studio supporter has touted features that will not play on any standalone player on sale today.

It's hard to compare the launch of Blu-ray to anything in electronics history because no one has really tried to own a market with a progression such as this.
post #1509 of 1635
1/23/08 at 6:10pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcos
I don't remember any major CE format/product that had such a clear air of being unfinished as Blu-ray has had. It's one thing to say that there will be future enhancements. It's quite another to say that the players on sale for more than a year are already two major generations away from where players will be within a year. In addition, a major studio supporter has touted features that will not play on any standalone player on sale today.

It's hard to compare the launch of Blu-ray to anything in electronics history because no one has really tried to own a market with a progression such as this.

All the more reason to eliminate HD DVD as competition then BD could progress at the snail's pace they envisioned initially with high prices for hardware and software intact. Unfortunately for them HD DVD is a formidable obstacle.
post #1510 of 1635
1/23/08 at 7:02pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcos
It's hard to compare the launch of Blu-ray to anything in electronics history because no one has really tried to own a market with a progression such as this.
Coleco's Adam comes to mind.
post #1511 of 1635
1/23/08 at 8:50pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcos
I don't remember any major CE format/product that had such a clear air of being unfinished as Blu-ray has had. It's one thing to say that there will be future enhancements. It's quite another to say that the players on sale for more than a year are already two major generations away from where players will be within a year. In addition, a major studio supporter has touted features that will not play on any standalone player on sale today.

It's hard to compare the launch of Blu-ray to anything in electronics history because no one has really tried to own a market with a progression such as this.

I agree with you. I've never seen it happen. Although the first line of Toshiba dvd players way back would not play DTS and certain discs would not work, I remember because I bought the first player. Blu-ray came to market unfinished because hd-dvd came to market and blu-ray could not wait another year and give Toshiba the head-room. I don't say this was right, but I do see it from a business stand-point if Blu-ray wanted any chance, and it appears they did very well with the market anyway. Blu-ray did deliver the movies from day 1, with the 1080p and the uncompressed sound, that's what I really wanted anyway, and that was my main concern. Anything 1.1 or 2.0 has very little interest for me, but I know it does for some.

I still say that the BDA made a big mistake in not mandating 1gb of memory and an ethernet port on every player (even if a firmware upgrade was needed to activate it). I have the feeling once this is all sorted out with the new players being finalized, we will see quite a sparkling format. For those like me, who really are after watching the movies in glorious 1080p and uncompressed sound, I am quite happy now. I don't really care about 1.1 or 2.0, even though my PS3 will have both soon.
post #1512 of 1635
1/23/08 at 9:22pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Toshiba wasn't the only brand of first gen players that could not pass or decode DTS. My Panasonic couldn't either.
post #1513 of 1635
1/23/08 at 9:43pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
Toshiba wasn't the only brand of first gen players that could not pass or decode DTS. My Panasonic couldn't either.

I had a friend with the first Pioneer DVD player, it had trouble skipping chapters and it was not enabled for DTS. Seems all the formats are late with DTS, even these 2 new ones.
post #1514 of 1635
1/23/08 at 9:51pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Player sales numbers have been confirmed:

NPD Confirms Huge Blu-ray Share Jump - 1/23/2008 9:40:00 AM - TWICE
post #1515 of 1635
1/23/08 at 10:19pm

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Looks like Blu-ray is leading the way in Australia as well

Blu-ray winning the format war in Australia | NEWS.com.au
post #1516 of 1635
1/24/08 at 1:50am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
Toshiba wasn't the only brand of first gen players that could not pass or decode DTS. My Panasonic couldn't either.

Let's not forget the very first Sony DVD player, the venerable DVP-S7000. It was later replaced with the DVP-7700 which did support DTS but the 7000 was a landmark player. Tremendous build quality, no macrovision, no region coding and a hefty price (over $1000) by today's standards.

I still have mine in service in an extra bedroom.


post #1517 of 1635
1/24/08 at 2:36am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF
Let's not forget the very first Sony DVD player, the venerable DVP-S7000. It was later replaced with the DVP-7700 which did support DTS but the 7000 was a landmark player. Tremendous build quality, no macrovision, no region coding and a hefty price (over $1000) by today's standards.

I still have mine in service in an extra bedroom.
RAF,
I was going through my old HT equipment receipts yesterday and I found my receipt for that unit dated Aug, 1997. How time has flown by in the last 11 years.
post #1518 of 1635
1/24/08 at 3:37am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
HDM is totally different. It's going to be a "hard sell." People are content with their SD DVD collections.

Yes, you´re correct. It´s "hard sell", no doubt. But it´s even more hard with two formats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
I still wonder why people with HD sets less than 56" buy HDM players. I don't see much difference between an upconverted picture and HD picture on my 56" 1080P set.

Strange comment. I have 40" 1080p LCD and I can "see the difference". But perhaps not all people see that, I can´t speak for everyone.

These "I don't see the difference"-comments are usually what the SD DVD-fans keep saying, mainly because they want to think that their "SD DVD"-collection is "good enough" etc. Sure, SD DVD is decent/good and I have around (give or take) 1700 SD DVDs, but of course I see "the difference" between 480 vs 1080 (or 576 vs 1080 with PAL).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
In fact, the MORE formats...the BETTER!!

Well, we obviously disagree with this one, so I doubt that we find any common ground on this one.. Time will tell of course who is "right" (truth is probably again somewhere in the "middle").
post #1519 of 1635
1/24/08 at 4:58am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Yes, you´re correct. It´s "hard sell", no doubt. But it´s even more hard with two formats.
.
yes...it's a hard sell for people only casually interested in what hd offers over sd.Anyone TRULY interested...or rather, truly appreciative of the benefits of hd is likely going to want to own whatever and however many options are out there. these are hd enthusiasts as opposed to format enthusiasts who think they are hd enthusiasts. jmo of course.
post #1520 of 1635
1/24/08 at 5:33am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
SD DVD didn´t need "competing format" and look what happened.


in terms of quickly falling prices and increasingly progressive catalog selection, this was due to consumer enthusiasm over what was a RADICALLY NEW ergonomic experience for consumers in terms of video playback. this new tech offered many USEFUL conveniences over the existing, commonly used tech at the time. How anyone can look at the situation today with hdms and expect the same parallels "if only there were one format", strikes me as a very simplistic, not very astute, appraisal of past and current trends and a poorlyl reasoned estimation of future trends.
post #1521 of 1635
1/24/08 at 6:32am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
How anyone can look at the situation today with hdms and expect the same parallels "if only there were one format", strikes me as a very simplistic, not very astute, appraisal of past and current trends and a poorlyl reasoned estimation of future trends.

I can see that this discussion isn´t really going nowhere. All I can say is, that the time will eventually tell how this situation is going to play out.

If there´ll be "two HD formats" and all that, I´ll continuing to buy both formats in some degree. I won´t be happy (nor the "masses" are happy), but I can live with the situation (I have both players after all). It´s sad for the "masses", but what can you do.

However, at the moment I hope that the Blu-ray will "win" and we´ll have "one format". It´s up to Universal and Paramount now. So - time will tell. Our debate won´t change the outcome.
post #1522 of 1635
1/24/08 at 6:41am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
It´s up to Universal and Paramount now. So - time will tell.

I think its out of their hands too Jeri. The retail stores, they are the ones with the power now. Once Best Buy, Wal*Mart, and Circuit City stop carrying product, then its over.
post #1523 of 1635
1/24/08 at 6:46am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald Trent
All the more reason to eliminate HD DVD as competition then BD could progress at the snail's pace they envisioned initially with high prices for hardware and software intact. Unfortunately for them HD DVD is a formidable obstacle.
In what world? Blu-ray player prices are dropping rapidly, you can't accuse Blu-ray of having higher prices since the software prices for both formats are the same, and HD DVD is tanking in both hardware and software. Time to be realistic here, folks.
post #1524 of 1635
1/24/08 at 6:50am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
How anyone can look at the situation today with hdms and expect the same parallels "if only there were one format", strikes me as a very simplistic, not very astute, appraisal of past and current trends and a poorlyl reasoned estimation of future trends.

I don't think that HDM has any chance of reaching the same level of success that DVD had; but I don't think that many would argue that there is a lot of consumer confusion about HD in general, and two competing formats that are effectively the same is only going to worsen that situation.

The studios and retailers obviously would like to see HDM be more successful. I'm not sure I totally buy into the idea that studios and retailers think it can repeat DVD's success anyway, but I think it is safe to say that they would like to see a greater awareness and adoption of HDM than Laserdisc had.

Therefore, studios and retailers are wise, IMO, to try to push for a single format in order to eliminate as much confusion as possible. That way you can continue to remove roadblocks and allow HDM reach whatever adoption it is capable of. Again, I do not think that it will be "DVD all over again".

I also think that the HD enthusiast is "beside the point" in their thinking at this stage of the game. As you admit, you're going to buy the content whether there are two formats or more. The studios and retailers already "have' you. The studios and retailers are trying to reach another tier of adoption, and it is clear that at least some of those studios and retailers believe more than one format is a significant roadblock for that tier.
post #1525 of 1635
1/24/08 at 6:54am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K

Well, we obviously disagree with this one, so I doubt that we find any common ground on this one.. Time will tell of course who is "right" (truth is probably again somewhere in the "middle").
This will be easy. Just watch the studios. Will Fox still drag it's feet? Will new releases be announced only to be postponed? How many catalog/classics will be released this year? Sure...the studios will talk the talk but will they walk the walk?
post #1526 of 1635
1/24/08 at 7:02am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
I think its out of their hands too Jeri. The retail stores, they are the ones with the power now. Once Best Buy, Wal*Mart, and Circuit City stop carrying product, then its over.
I wonder.....
I have just completed a review of my buying habits. I have 3 HD players and 2of those were bought on-line. ALL my software has been bought on-line. To be honest if the fate of HDM hangs with retail stores, just the sight of those $29.95 HD software prices would scare the hell out of me.
post #1527 of 1635
1/24/08 at 7:28am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
I wonder.....
I have just completed a review of my buying habits. I have 3 HD players and 2of those were bought on-line. ALL my software has been bought on-line. To be honest if the fate of HDM hangs with retail stores, just the sight of those $29.95 HD software prices would scare the hell out of me.

Thats the truth. I find the best price, and that has been online, except Best Buy has done a few BOGO deals. But so many people still seem to be scared to buy online. I guess fear of credit card theft. The last time i was in a Suncoast, about 8 or 9 years ago i was making fun of them for selling The X Files for FULL retail. I asked the guys working their do people really come in and spend $150 for a season, when i could go to Best Buy and get it for 90? Sixty bucks is real money to me, and that doesnt include the almost 10% sales tax we have in Tulsa! But i guess some people really dont care what they are spending, they just get it if its convenient for them.
post #1528 of 1635
1/24/08 at 7:57am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
To be honest if the fate of HDM hangs with retail stores, just the sight of those $29.95 HD software prices would scare the hell out of me.

And yet it has been widely reported that Best Buy has the most volume in terms of HDM sales. This is just another example of how the "HD enthusiast" differs from the "average consumer", and it reinforces my belief that everything that occurs this year in terms of HDM is driving toward eliminating as much HD confusion as possible for the "average consumer" come Q4 of 2008.

I have no doubt HD DVD will live the longest via the e-tailer, but, and I cannot stress this enough, all the shifting allegiances at the studio and retailer level have nothing to do with us, the HD enthusiast, and everything to do with spurring additional adoption. Notice the careful avoidance of the phrase "mass adoption". I do this because not only do I believe consumers as a whole are not ready to mass adopt this technology, but I also believe studios and retailers realize this as well.
post #1529 of 1635
1/24/08 at 8:11am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

There is also another big factor about when dvd went widespread and the circumstances now that I havn't seen discussed here..... The economy. When DVD came out, our country was in much better financial shape, prices were lower, and disposable income was higher. The last few years have been extra tough on people with all types of rising costs and the gas prices, rising health care and insurance costs among other costs. I think there are many people (and families) that are being very careful about purchasing anything that they consider a luxury item, and since they already have dvd, I think many people are waiting until they see a sign of things improving to buy something like this, and with this recession talk, it's scaring them. I know I am not comfortable about buying many things right now. So how many people are considering replacing their movies right now with all of this going on is a big question.
post #1530 of 1635
1/24/08 at 8:21am

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
There is also another big factor about when dvd went widespread and the circumstances now that I havn't seen discussed here..... The economy.

I've seen it touched upon, not necessarily here mind you. In fact, Warner Bros. even mentioned it as part of their reason to choose a format, although I am not sure I entirely followed their logic.

There is a bit of a counter-arguement to the recession talk however with respect to HDM purchasing. Buying a movie is still far cheaper than taking a vacation, etc. High gas prices may force families to spend more of their leisure time at home. I don't think it is necessarily going to counter-act a ression as much as it may mitigate it a little. However, I do see such a scenario coupled with people not wanting to re-buy their movies putting even more of an emphasis on new titles, which means studio support becomes more of an advantage.
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