Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive! - Page 49  

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Before last week's numbers, HD DVD was keeping up with Blu-ray, and the market was expanding for both sides. The HD DVD hardware sales were likely necessary just to keep up with the increase in Blu players out there over the holidays, particularly PS3s.

The timing of Warner's announcement surely dampened the enthusiasm of many new HD DVD owners, leading many, I'm sure, to return their players and software. I'd imagine the 85:15 from last week had HD DVD's numbers suppressed by returns.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I just read at Video Business that Toshiba is starting a huge marketing campaign for hd-dvd to get the mainstream consumer who is concerned about price to buy into hd-dvd. Obviously stores like Walmart and others, who have very few educated salespeople, won't be telling the buying customer about which studios support which formats so they can make the decision for themselves, and of course, these people aren't learning from us, I doubt if they even know of these forums, and come May that almost 80% of movies won't play for them. My question to you is, do you think this is fair marketing? Is Toshiba going to tell consumers who are probably going to spend some hard-earned cash on this investment what is happening to their future movie supply?

I am not putting Toshiba down. They have the right to promote. But the first thing that came to mind is, how many people, come May of this year, are going to be pissed off? Does Toshiba hope to keep this format going with 2 studios? Certainly now, nobody is going to switch sides. How can the shareholders of the Toshiba corporation allow such further investment with such a grim release list? Are the stock analysts probing this for their shareholders? Or, is Microsoft back in the game hoping to stall this war until downloads hit it big, which are starting to happen already, and is Microsoft writing more huge checks to keep the stall going?

I've seen some of of you guys call Sony ruthless, in my book Microsoft has always been the worst, not only in this but their business practices since day 1.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

There are ways Blu-ray could counter Toshiba's marketing campaign, just by being more proactive in their advertising with their stable of exclusive studios and titles. Go beyond "available exclusively on Blu-ray" ,which is only implicit regarding lack of HD DVD availability. Flat out say it. It might get people's attention a little better.

There has yet to be a an actual ad from either side that shows any sort of competitiveness between the formats, and that needs to change a bit. Meanwhile, we get those ads with soft drinks, beers, auto insurance, automobiles, etc. Just about every product category imaginable.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

This is quite interesting, interview with Graffio at Universal. He's of course very biased, as I would expect any interview to be with the blu side, but still good reading:

BetaNews | Interview: Universal EVP Ken Graffeo says HD DVD is here to stay

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I think Toshiba is going to highlight that their players are high end upconverting DVD players that add HD playback capacity. This is actually something they should have done a long time ago:

“Our HD DVD players not only playback approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment, but also enhance the picture quality to near high-definition on legacy DVD titles by all the studios. In short, we added high-def to DVD, which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than 200 companies.”

Toshiba plans big HD DVD marketing campaign - 1/14/2008 - Video Business

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I disagree. The real battle is between HD and DVD.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I agree with that, but that's not what I was addressing. I was addressing how Blu-ray could counter the HD DVD ad campaign. Blu-ray can counter any "upconvert your DVDs" ad with one of their own, and then tell the consumers why their players are better for futureproofing in regards to high-def media.

As for the battle between high definition media and DVD, I think that the consumer electronics companies and studios have a basic roadmap for that a few years down the road...they'll just phase out DVD entirely, first players, and then discs.

But this only works if there is a single HD disc format to transition to.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I guess I was trying to ask if it makes sense for BD to spend PR dollars countering HD DVD making a last ditch effort to stay alive. I don't think so. At this point it I feel it is irrelivent to BD if Toshiba is still selling HD DVD players a year from now. If BD doesn't want to be a LD like niche format (which is still very possible) then they need to start figuring out how to beat DVD.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I usually don't respond to this issue, but since I see it posted every 6 or 7 posts, I decided to post about it myself. I keep reading these posts (usually from hd-dvd owners) about Blu-ray not having 1.1 or 2.0 and low low player prices. The thing is, 1.1 is reality and 2.0 is very very close.

But, what I say is: What does Blu-ray have that hd-dvd doesn't? 75-80% of Hollywood content. I will take that over 1.1 or 2.0 any day!

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I guess this has been the major debate among the HD-fans. For HD DVD-fans Blu-ray is "inferior", because these 1.1/2.0 issues issues were "late" (I can´t really think of any other *real* reason, if we leave "cheap players" out of the discussion). Then again it´s a fact that Blu-ray has more studios (and more movies). I guess these same debates are still going strong?

There are some issues (region coding in CERTAIN releases, additional copy protection, pricing in with e.g. Fox-titles, use of MPEG-2 in CERTAIN releases, lack of DD+) that have been irritating HD DVD-fans from day one, but HD DVD has their share of "issues" as well (only 30gb capacity, less studios, etc)..

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Adam,
They're not going to beat out DVD! I don't see how the studios can sell enough product to justify the cost of preparing many titles for HDM. Furthermore, I think the studios already came to that conclusion. Also, I know too many people who don't even have their DVD player hooked up correctly and are still listening to their audio through their television speakers. IMO, I think people such as those are still in the majority.




Crawdaddy

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

As an HD DVD owner who initially was interested in Blu-ray, I can say that the uncertainty of profiles led me to go with HD DVD when players went south of $300. Now that I have HD DVD with what would be called 2.0 specs, I'd like the same with Blu-ray. Considering problems some 1.0 players are having with 1.1 software (Samsung in particular), it gives me pause as I consider how current players will handle discs with 2.0 content.

As for actual content available, it's not 75-80% right now, as Warner is still releasing HD DVD titles until the end of May. Once June rolls around, maybe the right Blu-ray player for me will be available. If so, I'll jump in. Until then, I'll continue to build my HD DVD collection, which I will enjoy for years to come.

Anyway, until one format has 100% unwavering support of all studios, the 75-80% is still a problem. Must be neutral to actually enjoy all movies rather than enjoy a format.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I think that by May when the Warner switch happens, those who are looking to buy a blu-ray player that is finalized will have several to choose from at that point. Sony has announced 2 models called "Sapphire" that will be both 1.1 and 2.0 enabled, one will send the new lossless formats via HDMI as bitstream for the receiver to decode, the other model will do that as well as have internal decoders (for DTS Master and Dolby True) so that the signals can be encoded and sent to the analog outputs as well, this is great for people like me who have an older receiver (Mine is a Denon) that doesn't have HDMI but does have 7.1 analog input. Those are due late spring. Then there will be a Marantz model, but that will be very high priced from what I have read, and then the Panasonic DMP-BD50, which I think will be the first to come out with 2.0, and this is the one I am after, since it has the internal decoders for the new sound formats.

Denon has delayed (announced a few days ago) their first two players for a month or two, and word is that the reason is to make them 2.0 compatable, but there again you are talking about $1000 and $2000 for the 2 players, far out of the reach of many of us (but it would be nice, hehe).

Also announced with 2.0 is the Sharp BD-HP50U. The original announcement for the player said 1.1, but now charts and sites are showing it as a 2.0, so we'll see. It could be that after the CES when Sony and Panasonic announced their 2.0 players, the other companies announcing players have decided that they better upgrade them to 2.0 before they release them. I am sure other announcements including a Samsung model and probably Phillips and Pioneer will have a 2.0 player. Then there is word of a JVC model, and I think Onkyo might enter the blu player race as well. I really see the cards changing for 2.0 in a quick manner now with the first 2.0 disc already released from Lionsgate. Then, of course, Sony said at CES that the 2.0 upgrade for the PS3 is due very soon.

This is one area I think that in the past the BDA has failed, which was not to insist on all players released at least having ethernet ports so they would be 2.0 or the ability to be upgraded to 2.0 with firmware. This should have been mandatory and they should now make this and 1.1 a mandatory spec, as well as decoding for the new sound formats, either through HDMI as bitstream or with internal decoders for analog outputting of these signals.

For me personally, these featrues like 1.1 and 2.0 sound cool to have, but I highly doubt I would use them often, but I am not saying there aren't people that love to use these features. I rarely listen to dvd commentaries unless it's one of my most favorite films, and from what I have seen for the internet special features for hd-dvd (at my friend's home), there hasn't been any that have really impressed me yet. I do think in the future they will be learning to use these features for more rich and unique content.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Looks like Warner is making the 3-week HD-DVD delays official for all titles.

Warner Extends HD DVD Release Delay to Catalog Titles | High-Def Digest

I would think that, as far as most B&M retailers will be concerned, this will make them BD "only" releases, especially when it comes to advertising.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I've seen a bunch of "the future is BLU!" ads on television recently.
They may not know the specifics about which studio supports what, but there has been anecdotal evidence (noted earlier in this thread) that clerks in these stores know that Blu-Ray has seemingly taken the upper-hand and are steering customers away from HD-DVD purchases.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

It would be interesting to get a reading from COSTCO on this. They curtailed their "return at any time for a full refund" policy for electronics about a year ago to prevent "free TV upgrades" but still give you your money back no-questions for IIRC 60 days. HD-DVD players purchased as Xmas presents could fall within that window. People could turn back in their player for a full refund and just keep the 5 free promo discs, and then go shopping for a BRD or combo player.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

There is evidence that hd-dvd disc sales have increased. Looking at the overall sales figures do not show this because blu-ray has released more catalog releases than hd-dvd. Individually, the sales are probably embarassingly bad yet they add up. I also think blu-ray had the more attractive titles in terms of box office. That's why you have to look at individual sales. Planet Earth sold more discs in hd-dvd than blu-ray in 2007. Transformers was the largest selling title in terms of exclusive releases. The HP 5 hd-dvds had around 43% of hd sales. That's about a 30-40% increase from 300's 2-1 blu-ray advantage. BR also posted strong numbers above the 33% share 300 got. The numbers have been down lately but that is hardly unexpected.

That is one reason I don't buy these player sales figures any more than I buy these weekly disc sales sales figures. They are an approximation and nothing more. You create a model and some figures are used but these models can be wrong. The government does approximately the same thing when they generate statistics like the unemployment rate and gdp figures. Yet these figures can be adjusted wildly up or down later. Also another issue is how you count PS3. Some people say a PS3 sale is a blu-ray sale even if only a small number are using it as such.

I also do not believe that having two formats causes consumer confusion. I think hd media is what causes confusion. Most people don't even know what hi-def means and whether they have it or not. Also this whole exclusivity bs created confusion. If it were not for that then the choice would be simple. You can purchase blu-ray which has a small advantage over hd-dvd and pay a couple hundred more for it or go with hd-dvd which gives you value.

The bottom line is this. Consumers had no choice in this. The only thing that flew with Warner was the size of Sony's check. The only thing that flew with some retailers are the bigger commissions that they got from blu-ray sales.

I have got two more hd-dvds coming in the mail. After all, I still have a fully functioning ced player and a few CED movies that have never come out on dvd. What I can't get on hd-dvd, I will get them on dvd as soon as the prices drop. I refuse to be pushed around by Warner or Sony. They can take blu-ray and take it to somewhere I can't mention publicly.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

No, they aren't going to beat out DVD. Like I said in a previous post, they are going to replace it.

You start by phasing out production of standard DVD players. Then you phase out production of standard DVDs, specifically on new releases, and then on catalog titles as they fall out of stock on DVD and need to go back into production.

It's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen. It happened in the past when there was enough market saturation on media playback devices to leave the old format behind, and it's happening with TVs with the transition to HDTV as we speak. And it happens in the computer hardware industry on an almost annual basis, although it tends to go unnoticed.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I guess it's back to cave-wall drawings for you, or at least VHS, since Sony was behind its competitor. Sony and Warner (among other companies) pushed DVD down your throat 10 years ago. I don't really see much of a difference.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

It's not going to happen, but I'm glad you're hopeful except you still haven't addressed the cost issue regarding all catalog titles being prepared for HDM releases. Furthermore, I actually hope you're right because I rather see my favorite films on the best possible home video presentation.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

DVD won't be phased out until and unless there is more money to be gained from making the transition to hidef. DVD sales growth has peaked, but DVD sales are still growing, if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

With regards to catalog titles, it may or may not happen, and that's going to be up to the individual studios after doing their own market research. Certainly there are some films available in HDM that I have on DVD that I will only replace when the DVD dies, because they aren't important enough to me. There are some I will replace as soon as I get my HDM player, and some I won't ever bother repurchasing because they just sit on the shelf taking up space. That's something that the studios will have to deal with.

But as prices continue to fall on HD players, I see no reason why, 5 years down the road, any standard DVD players would need to be manufactured by the main CE companies (the cheapo chinese off-brands can do whatever they want). Blu-ray and HD DVD players can both play SD discs now, so the only issue preventing a total switch on new player sales is price of HD players. And that will come down dramatically once the R&D expenses have been recouped.

Once there is enough saturation of these DVD v2 players (HD players) in households, then the studios can just stop manufacturing DVDs.

It'll take a bit of marketing and perhaps some well thought out displays in stores to help it along, but it'll happen. And the transition to digital broadcasts will certainly help. Even though people aren't "hooked" on HD yet, the knowledge is spreading and sooner or later the majority of consumers will get into it.

Let's also not forget that as we get older, so do the people younger than us. They get jobs, the build home theaters, and they know more about technology than many of us know it alls. They may not have the money yet, but they will a few years down the road.

Of course, this only works once there is a single HD format or every HD player on the market is a combo player, the former being more likely.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Don't forget about the matter of economy of scales and the coming of downloads and such.

In the long run, DVD (sales and rentals) could be replaced by HDM + downloads combined. There might not technically be profits to gain in one sense, but there could be operating expenses saved by streamlining back down to 1 format for physical media, especially if BD (rather than HDD) is the future.

Also, unfortunately, replacing DVD w/ HDM doesn't necessarily mean *all* HDM will have true/optimal HD quality. No doubt some future HDM releases, particularly low sales and/or obscure catalog titles, will not offer true/optimal HD quality and might even just recycle (gasp) SD transfers upconverted to HD, if they do get released on HDM. It's kinda like how "digital" is not always better than "analog" -- and let's not even argue about the finer points of that debate.

Gosh, I'm still waiting for a halfway decent SD transfer of The Last Emperor on DVD as it is. I probably won't be waiting for the HDM on that one after the Criterion DVD finally comes out next month...

_Man_

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Once there's only one HDM format, do you think they will go through the trouble of a remaster for an HDM release of catalog titles anymore? I got this bad feeling recently that they may just start porting over sd titles onto a bluray disc. So, they could phase out sd dvd that way, even though technically it would still exsist. In the process they would save money. Now, it wouldn't be HD, but, to the non-informed it would look pretty good by comparison. At least to what the average consumer knows sd dvd to be. Average consumers wouldn't even blink. Now, all of us here would raise hell. However,the people I've met here I wouldn't call the average consumer. EDIT: MAN-FAI WONG, WE must have been thinking the exact same thing here.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Man: Thanks for THAT bit of information! Don't know how it got by me...but it did! Wow. 4-discs. Isn't Criterion poised to go HD? SHOULD we be waiting for a BD release?

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Robert, are you talking about remastering titles for hd of older films? Not sure if you have been watching channels like Cinemax, MGMHD or Hdnetmovies, but there are a ton of classics showing up on these channels and they are beautifully remastered. I've seen movies from the 40's, 50's and 60's, so I think many have already been re-done in high def. To me, in 1080i, they look beautiful, so I would assume these can be pressed on hd disc. I have literally hundreds of them taped on my external hard drive for Dish. They are very clean and definately have been resotred, and these aren't just the top titles. OIf course, I would like them in full 1080p with uncompressed sound.

I tend to disagree with you. As we move to everyone getting a hdtv, I think there will be strong demand, and I think costs for remastering will come down especially with new and faster computer programs for fixing and restoring film frames . Certainly there are some films that the studios may not feel worth their time to spend a fortune cleaning up like that. But I do think there's a bright future for classics on high def disc. Already Fox just announced Longest Day, Sand Pebbles and Patton for their Father's Day promotion on blu-ray. Warner has been releasing classics. And look how many dvd disc back-covers say "high definition transfer" on them. I would assume these were mastered in full high def then converted for regular dvd. I have heard that Sony has been working on their library, trasferring much of it to high def for a long time now. Many of these movies look superb and I would believe they are ready for the hd formats.

I do not think, however, as Troy mentions above, that they will be transferring dvd resolution classics to high def disc. That would not make sense. Certainly most people that have a classic they like that has been released on dvd has probably picked it up....so who would buy the upgrade if it were the same transfer in dvd resolution? I do think it's going to take some time for the classics to roll in though, as they are going after the younger markets right now.

I am not sure, though, what the cost of taking a high def transfer and converting it to a blu-ray master for pressing a blu-ray disc. You may be right that it won't happen, but I sure hope you are wrong:-), but I am interested in your thoughts on what I said.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I'd try to find out more as the release date draws near. But I wouldn't hold my breath on a Criterion BD release all that soon unless we see an announcement (or at least some reasonably reliable rumors) for it. I wonder who actually owns the film (and HDM rights) though. I found this old article w/ a quick google, but it doesn't seem very clear to me:

Image gains rights to Last Emperor, others - 4/11/2007 - Video Business

I haven't noticed a barebones DVD release coming out. Maybe Image (or whoever else) will come out w/ a barebones BD soon after the Criterion DVD release. If so, maybe I'll buy both. The article does mention that Criterion (and Dreamachine) will be doing HD transfers, so I guess one can hope for the best. If need be, it probably won't be too hard to sell off the DVD if/when Criterion releases the BD...

_Man_

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Robert,
I've been a HD subscriber on DirecTV from the beginning and many of those films are not in great shape even those broadcast from an old 1080I transfer. Just take a look at "The Big Country" which was okay, but not up to the standards I expect from HDM.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I fall between you and Robert on this. It could go either way. I am afraid that they may cut corners in an attempt to go mainstream, and if this is the case I would rather HD be a niche product. There are two sides, the CE manufactures and the studios. While the CE manufactures aren't making any money on the hardware, the studios still are making money (and a lot of it!) on the software, and I dont see any incentive for them to support BD at the expense of DVD. I'm not saying it can't happen, but beating DVD is going to be a lot harder than beating HD DVD.

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I give it till 2011. I think by then the Bluray discs will be overwhelming sd dvd. It only took a couple of years for upconvert players to be a market standard. Bluray players will probably have the same result. Hi-Def is here to stay and people know that. Just look at what's happening with cable companies and HDTV television sales. Not to mention, it'll be standard by 2009. The future is looking sweet.