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post #1411 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
Just because one favors something, there is no reason to think they can not be objective. Especially if they are mature and measured in what they state.

That´s true. In the end and if you really think about it, probably MOST of the writers (blogs, web sites, columns, etc) favour the "other format" in some degree (and it shows between the lines many times), but that´s fine if the piece is still objective and "open minded" also towards that "other format". E.g. this " Scientific Blogging" piece is not very objective IMO. He makes some good points, but not really gives a chance to common sense (meaning that at this point Blu-ray IS winning the war - not sure what happens in next month, though).

I find very hard to read writings that bluntly say that "HD DVD is better format" or "Blu-ray is better format", since most of us know that the things are far from that black and white. You just have to see, admit and accept certain facts from these formats, if you want to really write about them. Be a "fanboy" and no-one cares what you write. Seriously.
post #1412 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I just posted this in the "Wal-Mart/HD" thread.

A visit to my local Wal-Mart today revealed that the store had eliminated it's once-prominent endcap at the entrance to the media section that had been divvied-up half between HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

The endcap now duplicates another endcap buried in the section with discounted TV season sets (Andy Griffith for $19.96, for example.).

All the HD media is back to being stuck behind locked glass in a different endcap in the gaming area buried within the section.

And...ALL the HD-DVDs were gone. Blu-ray only now.

I, unfortunately, did not get a chance to check out the store's hardware situation.

Anyone else seen anything similar at their W-M?

It was reported shortly after the Warner announcement that Wal-Mart was only going to stock Blu-ray in stores. They're probably just going to clear out what HD-DVD items they have left. I think they said they would continue to sell HD-DVD online though.

About Blu-ray profiles. I'm getting the impression that 2.0 is meant to be some sort of "luxury profile." 1.0 was just a holdover to 1.1, which is the "final standard profile." No new players on the market can be 1.0. However, I don't believe 2.0 is meant to replace profile 1.1 in that same way, if manufacturers want they can continue to release 1.1 players.

My point is that if this is the case profile 2.0 will probably just flounder and be forgotten. Software distributors don't like to support broken demographics like this and will probably just release titles without 2.0 capabilities. Hardware manufactures don't seem to want to support it so it's probably at least somewhat costly. Even the 2.0 features we've heard about sound really, really, really lame--so I don't see a lot of consumer demand for either the discs or the hardware.
post #1413 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I just posted this in the "Wal-Mart/HD" thread.

A visit to my local Wal-Mart today revealed that the store had eliminated it's once-prominent endcap at the entrance to the media section that had been divvied-up half between HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

The endcap now duplicates another endcap buried in the section with discounted TV season sets (Andy Griffith for $19.96, for example.).

All the HD media is back to being stuck behind locked glass in a different endcap in the gaming area buried within the section.

And...ALL the HD-DVDs were gone. Blu-ray only now.



I, unfortunately, did not get a chance to check out the store's hardware situation.

Anyone else seen anything similar at their W-M?

Yes, I did. Our local Walmart used to have both formats, now the hd-dvd's are suddenly gone, and there is only one hd-dvd player which said closeout (it was an A3) and 3 blu-ray players shown, the Panny 30, the Sony 300 and the Samsung 1400.

There have been comments made last week including this story, from someone who was interviewed who obviously had information about Wal-mart:

Walmart to only sell Blu-ray? :: PlayStation Universe (PSU)
post #1414 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

A far as 2.0 players, 6 were announced at CES, the first coming is the Panasonic BD50, which is 2.0 (and 1.1) and has internal Dolby True and DTS Master decoders and 7.1 analogs but will also send those signals via bitstream through hdmi (both ways). Then Sony announced 2 players as well, called "sapphire" models. Also there's the Sharp model supposedly at $399 with 2.0 and Marantz, and one from a company called Gowell, perhaps that's a UK brand? I am not sure, and I am sure more players with 2.0 full featured to come soon. What surprises me is the new Denon models, being that they are $1000 and $2000, are only 1.1 (maybe that will change).

You can see upcoming players and features of all players here, this is a great chart for current and upcoming players:

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html
post #1415 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Since this is the Warner thread, here is an interesting video of a news story and interview on the format war, run on CNN, where the interview-ee states Walmart is going blu (as seen by the last few posts here).

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
post #1416 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
A surprising number of 1.1 players announced at CES will have ethernet ports for FW upgrades only (no BD live abilities).

Hmmmm thats interesting and yet short sighted at the same time.

Doug
post #1417 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Some of the already released players have ethernet ports. The Samsung BD1200 and BD1400 (which can do firmware updates via the port), the Pioneer HD1, 94HD and 95FD.
post #1418 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Ok I just have to know what is CE3K ?
post #1419 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
Ok I just have to know what is CE3K ?

CE3K = Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Dave. I have to smile at all the comments about the high cost of some of these DVDs. I paid much, much more for the LD version of this title back in the 90's. And it wasn't uncommon to pay almost $100 for a Criterion Boxed set. With an MSRP of ~$125 we thought we were getting a "bargain." Prices for HT media have dropped dramatically over the past 20 years or so, and the picture and sound have never been better. Not so sure of the content, though.


post #1420 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Thanks RAF, I should have figured it out. I have it on DVD and Blu-ray.

Quote:
Dave. I have to smile at all the comments about the high cost of some of these DVDs. I paid much, much more for the LD version of this title back in the 90's. And it wasn't uncommon to pay almost $100 for a Criterion Boxed set.

I find it funny as well every time I hear a comment about how $35 - $40 is to much for HD media. I remeber the cost of some laserdiscs being $100 or more. I think I paid a good amount of money for the Criterion Boxed set of The Rock.
post #1421 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
Thanks RAF, I should have figured it out. I have it on DVD and Blu-ray.



I find it funny as well every time I hear a comment about how $35 - $40 is to much for HD media. I remeber the cost of some laserdiscs being $100 or more. I think I paid a good amount of money for the Criterion Boxed set of The Rock.

And I remember paying over 150.00 for the Honeymooners (2 box sets) and $125 for The Sound of Music laserdisc box set. Now give me The Sound of Music on blu-ray and I'll be smiling for a loooong time (with Fox's DTS Master audio of course)!!!!
post #1422 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I remember paying $100 for The Phantom Menace LD. Still have it and prefer it over the DVD.
post #1423 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
I remember paying $100 for The Phantom Menace LD. Still have it and prefer it over the DVD.
You said a mouthful there. Why the hell hasn't this been remastered? The other 5 films put it to shame as far as PQ . Maybe we'll get these on Bluray in time for the 35th anniversary of Star Wars. I hope Warner does Bluray right. I hate it when the studios port the films over in an attempt to rush a HDM release. Hopefully they have learned from other studios we won't tolerate that. They have been good so far, though. I just hope that when there's no competition in the future the studios don't start half-assing the quality of the releases. I may be worrying for nothing, but, this fact has been on my mind lately.
post #1424 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I would hope that the BDA would pressure the studios to maintain a standard of quality. I to would hate to see video quality suffer because studio's start half-assing releases. I am looking forward to many WB titles on Blu-ray and hope they give us a release schedule for the rest of the year some time soon.

And while Star Wars may not be a WB title, one thing I find interesting is since Fox is heavily supporting DTS-HD MA. What is going to happen with Star Wars when it comes out on Blu-ray? Will Star Wars get that DTS-HD MA treatment or will Lucas be able to single handed get Fox to release there first Dolby True HD title? I guess that for some of us that hoped for a DTS release of Star Wars just might get our wish finally, na not if Lucas has his way. But at least it will sound awsume with lossless audio even if it is Dolby True HD, which sounds great.

My wish is to own Star Wars on Blu-ray with a DTS-HD MA track. Come on look at my sig should this be a suprise. Hey its my dream.
post #1425 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
I would hope that the BDA would pressure the studios to maintain a standard of quality. I to would hate to see video quality suffer because studio's start half-assing releases. I am looking forward to many WB titles on Blu-ray and hope they give us a release schedule for the rest of the year some time soon.

And while Star Wars may not be a WB title, one thing I find interesting is since Fox is heavily supporting DTS-HD MA. What is going to happen with Star Wars when it comes out on Blu-ray? Will Star Wars get that DTS-HD MA treatment or will Lucas be able to single handed get Fox to release there first Dolby True HD title? I guess that for some of us that hoped for a DTS release of Star Wars just might get our wish finally, na not if Lucas has his way. But at least it will sound awsume with lossless audio even if it is Dolby True HD, which sounds great.

My wish is to own Star Wars on Blu-ray with a DTS-HD MA track. Come on look at my sig should this be a suprise. Hey its my dream.

Mine too. It could go either way one this though. I'm just looking forward to its eventual release regardless.
post #1426 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Some of the already released players have ethernet ports. The Samsung BD1200 and BD1400 (which can do firmware updates via the port), the Pioneer HD1, 94HD and 95FD.

I don't know about all the Pioneer players, but the ethernet port on the first one was for media sharing only and you couldn't load FW updates over it.
post #1427 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Also there's the Sharp model supposedly at $399 with 2.0
I don't think the new sharp is a 2.0 player. I know the press release said it was BD Live, but I think the PR guys used the wrong term for it. We won't know until we see the back of it. The upcoming Panasonic BD50 is going to be the standalone to beat for overall features and quality.
post #1428 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald Trent
Mr. Hanks has either been paid by Toshiba to write this, or he simply has no clue about anything. He claims he understands business very well, but I seriously doubt he has any business experience at all. His arguments in favor of HD-DVD border on the ridiculous. According to him just having an Ethernet port for updates on all HD-DVD players, is enough to guarantee the success of HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. Ofcourse, he quite conveniently overlooks the fact that the most common Blu-Ray player, or for that matter HD player, the PS3, already has an ethenet connection. Also by the end of this year, if not sooner, there will be several Blu-Ray players, from several manufacturers, featuring an ethernet port.
The other argument that Mr. Hanks uses in favor of HD-DVD players, their low price, also does not hold much weight. Specially considering, that inspite of their higher price, Blu-Ray standalone players outsold HD-DVD players during the holiday period. The irony is that he talks about Apple's sucess with the iPod in the portable music player market, to explain, that all people care about is a "top notch system", as if Blu-Ray is somehow a lesser technology than HD-DVD. Someone needs to point out to Mr. Hanks that Apple's iPod is one of the most expensive amongst all personal music players and quite unjustifiably so, if you ask me. More importantly, after the recent price drops in Toshiba HD-DVD players, there is not much room left for further reductions, atleast not anytime soon. Whereas Blu-Ray still has room to play with their pricing, since costs for Blu-Ray will continue to drop for a long time, as the technology matures. This also includes reductions in the cost of disc manufacturing. HD-DVD has had the advantage of being closely based on DVD, and thus starting out with a lower manufacturing cost for discs. But that also means, that there is not much room further for lower costs on that front either, since DVD was already a very mature product.
Mr. Hanks also mentions having Microsoft as a supporter of HD-DVD, as a major key to winning the war for HD-DVD. This is when Bill gates and Microsoft, both have stated on numerous occasions that they believe some form of a download model as the likely successor to DVD, rather than any disc based system. If Microsoft really believed in HD-DVD and/or wanted to fully support it, they would have considered adding HD-DVD to the X-Box, but that is something that they have explicitly said they will not do. In fact Microsoft has very recently made statements, post Warner announcement, that they are open to the idea of a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box. This to me clearly indicates their extent of support or rather the lack of support to the HD-DVD cause. Who is willing to bet that the Microsoft labs are already working on a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box, that is if they already don't have one tested and ready to go as and when needed. Furthermore, he mentions the success of Windows as an example of how Microsoft's preserverance is a factor in this war, quite conveniently forgetting that Windows succeeded simply because of the huge support it had from the software and hardware manufacturing companies. While Apple floundered inspite of a superior, "more complete" product, due to it's monopolistic business manufacturing and sales model. The fact is, that Toshiba is the Apple, while Sony is what Microsoft was in the OS war. Also, in the VCR format wars between JVC & Sony, it was JVC with the software & manufacturing support while Sony was the one with a monopolistic model. Whereas, this time around, it is Sony with the software & hardware support, while Toshiba tries to push it's format almost single handedly.
Finally, the silliest of Mr. Hanks arguments, is reserved for last. He states, "If Blu-ray sells 100 machines and each customer bought 7 discs with it, that's good for studios and not great for player manufacturers. If HD-DVD sells 300 players and 1 disc with each, Toshiba is much happier than studios. Which of those groups can easily change direction? The studios". Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of his argument. If the studios sell 100 x 7 = 700 discs on Blu-Ray and only 300 x 1 = 300 discs on HD-DVD and if the higher disc sales, is what is "good for studios", as he himself states, then why in the world would they "easily change direction"? By the way, the very figures he uses, indicate how well versed Mr. Hanks actually is with the current state of the HD market. Where in the world did Mr. Hanks get the idea that there are 3 times as many HD-DVD players sold than Blu-Ray players? Even Toshiba's own figures admit that they have only a 49% share of the HD player market and this is not taking into account the PS3, which if included would give the edge to Blu-Ray players by almost 5 times, considering that there are around 3 million PS3s sold in addition to the half million standalone Blu-Ray players. Compare that to the half million HD-DVD players in addition to the approx 200,000 HD-DVD X-Box addons and it is quite clear where the dominating Blu-Ray disc sales come from. Last but not the least, Mr. Hanks needs to take a course in business, for he seems to be totally devoid of any understanding of the basic principle of business, ie. profit. Toshiba may be outselling any other single Blu-Ray manufacturer in HD player sales, but the question is at what price. While the Blu-Ray players sell for a profit, Toshiba continues to lose money with each new HD-DVD player they sell. In their goal to establish HD-DVD, or should I say to insure survival of the HD-DVD format, Toshiba has forever forsaken any profits from HD-DVD hardware sales. Thus, leaving absolutely no incentive for the other CE manufacturers to ever get into manufacturing of HD-DVD players. In fact with the current state of affairs, I don't see much of an incentive for even dual format players, for it is far cheaper to buy the two formats individually, than what it would cost to make a dual player profitabally. But obviously, Mr. Hanks lives in his own dreams, totally oblivious of what is happening in the real world. But then again, this may just be the only way he figures he could generate readership for himself and his blog.
I don't think anyone at this stage can, with even reasonable surety, guarantee which way the format war will end. But I think, with the way things already are, one can safely predict, that irrespective of what happens to HD-DVD, Blu-Ray is definately here to stay. Thus for Mr. Hanks to actually predict that HD-DVD will outrightly win over Blu-Ray, is just hog wash, to put it mildly.
post #1429 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I just read that story, and it's absolutely absurd. This guy is in a dream state. He obviously knows nothing about the video business, where the number one factor has always been "Content is king." 75 to 80% of studio releases are not going to be available, how many people will buy these players? Huge movie fans perhaps to get Universal and Paramount films and those who own it already, plus those that are not told about the software factor at point of sale. But families want a Disney film,and I can't stress enough how important the studio is (having been in the video business since early VHS -Magnetic Video, families must have the Disney brand). I have a strong feeling that the fact Disney is devoted to blu-ray played a part, even though it might have been small, in Warner's decision.
post #1430 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
I don't know about all the Pioneer players, but the ethernet port on the first one was for media sharing only and you couldn't load FW updates over it.

It's that way on all three. That's why I mentioned that particular addendum only after the Samsungs.
post #1431 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
Mr. Hanks has either been paid by Toshiba to write this, or he simply has no clue about anything. He claims he understands business very well, but I seriously doubt he has any business experience at all. His arguments in favor of HD-DVD border on the ridiculous. According to him just having an Ethernet port for updates on all HD-DVD players, is enough to guarantee the success of HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. Ofcourse, he quite conveniently overlooks the fact that the most common Blu-Ray player, or for that matter HD player, the PS3, already has an ethenet connection. Also by the end of this year, if not sooner, there will be several Blu-Ray players, from several manufacturers, featuring an ethernet port.
The other argument that Mr. Hanks uses in favor of HD-DVD players, their low price, also does not hold much weight. Specially considering, that inspite of their higher price, Blu-Ray standalone players outsold HD-DVD players during the holiday period. The irony is that he talks about Apple's sucess with the iPod in the portable music player market, to explain, that all people care about is a "top notch system", as if Blu-Ray is somehow a lesser technology than HD-DVD. Someone needs to point out to Mr. Hanks that Apple's iPod is one of the most expensive amongst all personal music players and quite unjustifiably so, if you ask me. More importantly, after the recent price drops in Toshiba HD-DVD players, there is not much room left for further reductions, atleast not anytime soon. Whereas Blu-Ray still has room to play with their pricing, since costs for Blu-Ray will continue to drop for a long time, as the technology matures. This also includes reductions in the cost of disc manufacturing. HD-DVD has had the advantage of being closely based on DVD, and thus starting out with a lower manufacturing cost for discs. But that also means, that there is not much room further for lower costs on that front either, since DVD was already a very mature product.
Mr. Hanks also mentions having Microsoft as a supporter of HD-DVD, as a major key to winning the war for HD-DVD. This is when Bill gates and Microsoft, both have stated on numerous occasions that they believe some form of a download model as the likely successor to DVD, rather than any disc based system. If Microsoft really believed in HD-DVD and/or wanted to fully support it, they would have considered adding HD-DVD to the X-Box, but that is something that they have explicitly said they will not do. In fact Microsoft has very recently made statements, post Warner announcement, that they are open to the idea of a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box. This to me clearly indicates their extent of support or rather the lack of support to the HD-DVD cause. Who is willing to bet that the Microsoft labs are already working on a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box, that is if they already don't have one tested and ready to go as and when needed. Furthermore, he mentions the success of Windows as an example of how Microsoft's preserverance is a factor in this war, quite conveniently forgetting that Windows succeeded simply because of the huge support it had from the software and hardware manufacturing companies. While Apple floundered inspite of a superior, "more complete" product, due to it's monopolistic business manufacturing and sales model. The fact is, that Toshiba is the Apple, while Sony is what Microsoft was in the OS war. Also, in the VCR format wars between JVC & Sony, it was JVC with the software & manufacturing support while Sony was the one with a monopolistic model. Whereas, this time around, it is Sony with the software & hardware support, while Toshiba tries to push it's format almost single handedly.
Finally, the silliest of Mr. Hanks arguments, is reserved for last. He states, "If Blu-ray sells 100 machines and each customer bought 7 discs with it, that's good for studios and not great for player manufacturers. If HD-DVD sells 300 players and 1 disc with each, Toshiba is much happier than studios. Which of those groups can easily change direction? The studios". Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of his argument. If the studios sell 100 x 7 = 700 discs on Blu-Ray and only 300 x 1 = 300 discs on HD-DVD and if the higher disc sales, is what is "good for studios", as he himself states, then why in the world would they "easily change direction"? By the way, the very figures he uses, indicate how well versed Mr. Hanks actually is with the current state of the HD market. Where in the world did Mr. Hanks get the idea that there are 3 times as many HD-DVD players sold than Blu-Ray players? Even Toshiba's own figures admit that they have only a 49% share of the HD player market and this is not taking into account the PS3, which if included would give the edge to Blu-Ray players by almost 5 times, considering that there are around 3 million PS3s sold in addition to the half million standalone Blu-Ray players. Compare that to the half million HD-DVD players in addition to the approx 200,000 HD-DVD X-Box addons and it is quite clear where the dominating Blu-Ray disc sales come from. Last but not the least, Mr. Hanks needs to take a course in business, for he seems to be totally devoid of any understanding of the basic principle of business, ie. profit. Toshiba may be outselling any other single Blu-Ray manufacturer in HD player sales, but the question is at what price. While the Blu-Ray players sell for a profit, Toshiba continues to lose money with each new HD-DVD player they sell. In their goal to establish HD-DVD, or should I say to insure survival of the HD-DVD format, Toshiba has forever forsaken any profits from HD-DVD hardware sales. Thus, leaving absolutely no incentive for the other CE manufacturers to ever get into manufacturing of HD-DVD players. In fact with the current state of affairs, I don't see much of an incentive for even dual format players, for it is far cheaper to buy the two formats individually, than what it would cost to make a dual player profitabally. But obviously, Mr. Hanks lives in his own dreams, totally oblivious of what is happening in the real world. But then again, this may just be the only way he figures he could generate readership for himself and his blog.
I don't think anyone at this stage can, with even reasonable surety, guarantee which way the format war will end. But I think, with the way things already are, one can safely predict, that irrespective of what happens to HD-DVD, Blu-Ray is definately here to stay. Thus for Mr. Hanks to actually predict that HD-DVD will outrightly win over Blu-Ray, is just hog wash, to put it mildly.
The article might be hogwash, but I find your long rebuttal to such hogwash more interesting.






Crawdaddy
post #1432 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSiegel
I just read that story, and it's absolutely absurd. This guy is in a dream state. He obviously knows nothing about the video business, where the number one factor has always been "Content is king." 75 to 80% of studio releases are not going to be available, how many people will buy these players?
If "Content is king" than what chance does Blu-ray have against standard DVD??? Blu-ray gonna have to come up with a new slogan.

Boys....I'm actually going to buy a standard DVD after a long hiatus. EL CID here I come. Been waiting along time for this one!!!
post #1433 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
The article might be hogwash, but I find your long rebuttal to such hogwash more interesting.

Crawdaddy
To be honest, halfway thru typing my response, I actually considered scrapping it, since I found myself wondering if this really deserved a response. But having already spent time on the post and since I did'nt really have much else to do at the time, I decided to finish the post.
post #1434 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Despite being a BD owner, I can definitely appreciate what the format war has done for us early adopters with regards to price and the two sides pushing each other. I also am of the belief the format war isn't over until one format is completely off the shelves all of the major studios are releasing on one format. I also have not completely written off HD-DVD, though to be sure the deck is stacked against them.

That said, Mr. Hanks' article is really one of the worst articles I've read with regards to the use of logic (or rather lack of it) to draw inappropriate conclusions. I too found Sanjay's response more entertaining than the actual article. I was too astounded by Hanks' "conclusions" to write a response. I'm glad Sanjay took care of that for us.

What's even funnier is to see Hanks try to defend himself in the followups to his original blog [at the bottom of the page]. He's clearly written a piss-poor article and has backed himself into a corner and is fighting, scratching and clawing in order to try to defend his fallacious arguments.
post #1435 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

One of the things that I do not think was factored into the holiday sales for Toshiba players. Is that there where alot of HD-DVD players sold for $99 and I do not think that many players would have sold if the players where not sold so cheap. But even with the $99 players being sold which was good for Toshiba. The problem is that there is only going to be two exclusive studios offering HD titles for HD-DVD. The software titles will just not be there to support all those players that sold during the christmas sales. I feel that software sales are really going to start bottoming out as consumers find out that there are very little choices in titles.

This almost seems to be Toshiba's mind set right now, " You can kill me but you can never beat me, who am I ..... I captain HD-DVD".
post #1436 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
If "Content is king" than what chance does Blu-ray have against standard DVD???

That makes no sense, you're comparing 2 formats. DVD is trying at the next generation format and on that, 80% of content is blu, you cannot compare to dvd as it isn't the same type of format (HD).
post #1437 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
One of the things that I do not think was factored into the holiday sales for Toshiba players. Is that there where alot of HD-DVD players sold for $99 and I do not think that many players would have sold if the players where not sold so cheap. But even with the $99 players being sold which was good for Toshiba. The problem is that there is only going to be two exclusive studios offering HD titles for HD-DVD. The software titles will just not be there to support all those players that sold during the christmas sales. I feel that software sales are really going to start bottoming out as consumers find out that there are very little choices in titles.

This almost seems to be Toshiba's mind set right now, " You can kill me but you can never beat me, who am I ..... I captain HD-DVD".

I do have to wonder, though, if Toshiba sold so many hardware pieces over the holidays, then why aren't the new adopters buying movies? I mean look at the last 4 weeks of software figures. If these people are buying players, then surely there would have been an increase in software, the numbers don't match.
post #1438 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSiegel
That makes no sense, you're comparing 2 formats. DVD is trying at the next generation format and on that, 80% of content is blu, you cannot compare to dvd as it isn't the same type of format (HD).
Ohhhhhhhhh.....don't be so technical.
For me, at this time, there is extremely limited content available in HDM that I would actually purchase. I was going to buy Master & Commander... but....
post #1439 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
Mr. Hanks has either been paid by Toshiba to write this, or he simply has no clue about anything. He claims he understands business very well, but I seriously doubt he has any business experience at all. His arguments in favor of HD-DVD border on the ridiculous. According to him just having an Ethernet port for updates on all HD-DVD players, is enough to guarantee the success of HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. Ofcourse, he quite conveniently overlooks the fact that the most common Blu-Ray player, or for that matter HD player, the PS3, already has an ethenet connection. Also by the end of this year, if not sooner, there will be several Blu-Ray players, from several manufacturers, featuring an ethernet port.
The other argument that Mr. Hanks uses in favor of HD-DVD players, their low price, also does not hold much weight. Specially considering, that inspite of their higher price, Blu-Ray standalone players outsold HD-DVD players during the holiday period. The irony is that he talks about Apple's sucess with the iPod in the portable music player market, to explain, that all people care about is a "top notch system", as if Blu-Ray is somehow a lesser technology than HD-DVD. Someone needs to point out to Mr. Hanks that Apple's iPod is one of the most expensive amongst all personal music players and quite unjustifiably so, if you ask me. More importantly, after the recent price drops in Toshiba HD-DVD players, there is not much room left for further reductions, atleast not anytime soon. Whereas Blu-Ray still has room to play with their pricing, since costs for Blu-Ray will continue to drop for a long time, as the technology matures. This also includes reductions in the cost of disc manufacturing. HD-DVD has had the advantage of being closely based on DVD, and thus starting out with a lower manufacturing cost for discs. But that also means, that there is not much room further for lower costs on that front either, since DVD was already a very mature product.
Mr. Hanks also mentions having Microsoft as a supporter of HD-DVD, as a major key to winning the war for HD-DVD. This is when Bill gates and Microsoft, both have stated on numerous occasions that they believe some form of a download model as the likely successor to DVD, rather than any disc based system. If Microsoft really believed in HD-DVD and/or wanted to fully support it, they would have considered adding HD-DVD to the X-Box, but that is something that they have explicitly said they will not do. In fact Microsoft has very recently made statements, post Warner announcement, that they are open to the idea of a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box. This to me clearly indicates their extent of support or rather the lack of support to the HD-DVD cause. Who is willing to bet that the Microsoft labs are already working on a Blu-Ray addon for the X-Box, that is if they already don't have one tested and ready to go as and when needed. Furthermore, he mentions the success of Windows as an example of how Microsoft's preserverance is a factor in this war, quite conveniently forgetting that Windows succeeded simply because of the huge support it had from the software and hardware manufacturing companies. While Apple floundered inspite of a superior, "more complete" product, due to it's monopolistic business manufacturing and sales model. The fact is, that Toshiba is the Apple, while Sony is what Microsoft was in the OS war. Also, in the VCR format wars between JVC & Sony, it was JVC with the software & manufacturing support while Sony was the one with a monopolistic model. Whereas, this time around, it is Sony with the software & hardware support, while Toshiba tries to push it's format almost single handedly.
Finally, the silliest of Mr. Hanks arguments, is reserved for last. He states, "If Blu-ray sells 100 machines and each customer bought 7 discs with it, that's good for studios and not great for player manufacturers. If HD-DVD sells 300 players and 1 disc with each, Toshiba is much happier than studios. Which of those groups can easily change direction? The studios". Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of his argument. If the studios sell 100 x 7 = 700 discs on Blu-Ray and only 300 x 1 = 300 discs on HD-DVD and if the higher disc sales, is what is "good for studios", as he himself states, then why in the world would they "easily change direction"? By the way, the very figures he uses, indicate how well versed Mr. Hanks actually is with the current state of the HD market. Where in the world did Mr. Hanks get the idea that there are 3 times as many HD-DVD players sold than Blu-Ray players? Even Toshiba's own figures admit that they have only a 49% share of the HD player market and this is not taking into account the PS3, which if included would give the edge to Blu-Ray players by almost 5 times, considering that there are around 3 million PS3s sold in addition to the half million standalone Blu-Ray players. Compare that to the half million HD-DVD players in addition to the approx 200,000 HD-DVD X-Box addons and it is quite clear where the dominating Blu-Ray disc sales come from. Last but not the least, Mr. Hanks needs to take a course in business, for he seems to be totally devoid of any understanding of the basic principle of business, ie. profit. Toshiba may be outselling any other single Blu-Ray manufacturer in HD player sales, but the question is at what price. While the Blu-Ray players sell for a profit, Toshiba continues to lose money with each new HD-DVD player they sell. In their goal to establish HD-DVD, or should I say to insure survival of the HD-DVD format, Toshiba has forever forsaken any profits from HD-DVD hardware sales. Thus, leaving absolutely no incentive for the other CE manufacturers to ever get into manufacturing of HD-DVD players. In fact with the current state of affairs, I don't see much of an incentive for even dual format players, for it is far cheaper to buy the two formats individually, than what it would cost to make a dual player profitabally. But obviously, Mr. Hanks lives in his own dreams, totally oblivious of what is happening in the real world. But then again, this may just be the only way he figures he could generate readership for himself and his blog.
I don't think anyone at this stage can, with even reasonable surety, guarantee which way the format war will end. But I think, with the way things already are, one can safely predict, that irrespective of what happens to HD-DVD, Blu-Ray is definately here to stay. Thus for Mr. Hanks to actually predict that HD-DVD will outrightly win over Blu-Ray, is just hog wash, to put it mildly.
Sanjay,
You know, of course, that we're going to have to learn to "chill out" when we read these type of articles.
It's a sure sign that we're just taking the format war way to seriously. My first impulse was to attack you for attacking him as Mr Hanks has a right to his opinion and he is right as far as, "no one is an expert on the high-definition marketplace." But than I thought.....well, anyway I just started laughing at the whole thing. Have a good day and - Peace.
post #1440 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSiegel
I do have to wonder, though, if Toshiba sold so many hardware pieces over the holidays, then why aren't the new adopters buying movies? I mean look at the last 4 weeks of software figures. If these people are buying players, then surely there would have been an increase in software, the numbers don't match.
There's a variety of possible reasons:

1) Many of the new players were from existing HD DVD owners buying additional units. Anecdotal evidence certainly seems to bear this out, at least to a point.

2) Many consumers confused HD DVD with DVD or DVD upconverts. Not sure how much this happened, but there is plenty of evidence that there is confusion about the formats.

3) Players were bought without knowledge of exclusivity (Warner or otherwise), and are now being returned. This is suggested both by nes outlets like Business Week and anecdotal evidence.

4) Sales were exaggerated. Doubtful, but this is a war...

I'm sure there are other theories floating around, but it's clear that the so-called "razors vs. blades" argument didn't fly with consumers, Warner, or retailers.
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