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Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive! - Page 40  

post #1171 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Seems like a catch 22 though. DVD sales, even for double and triple dips are shrinking, so even those are getting harder to market and sell. At the same time, let's throw in an even better disc into the total package, but you have to buy a new DVD player (HD) to take advantage of it.

The only positive I could think of in doing this is if you do get the HD DVD player, you also have an SD disc to use with DVD players in other rooms or with portable players. But if someone already has the SD DVD, then even that is not needed.

And it really isn't much of a secret weapon anyway. If it actually works, the BD studios could do the exact same thing (and I still wouldn't like that either). There goes the advantage, although I still think 2 vs. the world is hard to claim an advantage in any scenario.
post #1172 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
If you don't have either player then you're in the best position to just wait and see what happens this year without any financial investment like some of us.

I am waiting, but it's mainly because my wife doesn't want to spend the money to replace the DVD player while it works perfectly fine. She'd much rather have a Wii (which will be here next week).
post #1173 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
suppose they decide to not only continue to release titles on HD DVD but to package them TOGETHER with each and every standard def DVD release. Every release from those three with BOTH the standard def DVD and the HD DVD version in the same case, all priced within a dollar or two of the SD versions now. These could be either combo discs or two disc sets (SD and HD DVD). There wouldn't be any standard def only versions going forward.

I've thought about this for months now as the Blu fans have talked up the weekly software market share stats - why has a combo disc strategy like this not been implemented already? The combo disc (as much as some of us may hate it) had (or has) such potential for building the base of HD-DVD beyond the enthusisast early adopters. Its simple logic - Average Joe figures out one day that the last 10-12 dvds he bought all have an HD version on the other side. He has an HD library built already - why not go buy a player and take advantage of it? Imagine the market share potential that Transformers, Shrek 3 and Bourne would have had if every copy was a combo disc...

If HD-DVD could hang around long enough for Iron Man and Indy IV to go on sale that way - wow.
post #1174 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick.C
I've thought about this for months now as the Blu fans have talked up the weekly software market share stats - why has a combo disc strategy like this not been implemented already?
Warner tried!
post #1175 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

But....
NOBODY tried what is being suggested here, which is that the studios eat the markup on combo releases and only release combo discs for new releases. If this strategy had been adopted from the get-go, HD DVD would have enjoyed greater market penetration and J6P would have a built-in library when he got around to buying an HD DVD player. Warner did release all new releases as combos, but they didn't discontinue SD only releases.
post #1176 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth
Thanks Ron! I rarely hear that without the word ass in there somewhere too!

Mark

Hello Mark! I don't think I've heard you referred to in that fashion ("smart ass") since way back in the Compuserve CEFORUM days!



(Just kidding, of course.)

Your theory regarding HD-DVD would be a brilliant one as long as the combo discs (DVD/HD-DVD) are priced the same as the SD discs that they would be replacing. I can see the packaging now: "FREE copy of HD-DVD title enclosed!" Or, "Plays on ANY DVD player" etc. Since SD media sells in the millions of units while HD titles (both formats) sells in the thousands, not even the most creative Blu-spinners could argue that Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD. After all, they are already including the "millions" of PS3s in their "Blu-ray Player" count even though a huge number of PS3s have never had a movie inserted in them. So it would be disingenuous to claim that a disc that contains both a SD and HD-DVD copy of a movie on it (one disc, folks) at the same price as the SD version alone shouldn't be counted. (Ironically, I'm one of the people who actually purchased a PS3 as a Blu-ray player and play very few games on it. It's an excellent BD player!) As an owner of many, many HD combo titles already I've never had a problem with any of my discs and in my estimation they work as advertised. (Yes, I've seen the threads about combo disc exchanges, but I've also seen disc exchanges for SD discs and even LDs over the years.)

As a full time user of both HD formats I'm not concerned with who's ahead or who's dropping out of the race. When movies are released I purchase the ones I want regardless of format. And if people panic so that prices go down even more than the BOGO sales, so be it. I'll scoop up every good title offered to me and if it's under $10 a title (like some recent Amazon BOGO sales in both formats) bring them on. My HD-DVD players didn't stop working on "Blu Friday" and I expect to watch the discs for many, many years. (I still spin vinyl and LDs).

As a final observation, I'm constantly amazed by those people who seem to be the most vociferous in arguing about the various HD formats but who don't even own a player in either format! I can fully appreciate and respect the views of those who are waiting relatively silently on the sidelines because that don't choose to enter the marketplace as long as there is still some doubt as to what format will emerge eventually. There is just as much merit in owning neither player as there is in owning both players as your own personal solution to the format wars. I chose the get both because I love movies and can appreciate the greater visual and sonic qualities that HDM offers because my other equipment can bring out the best it has to offer. When I speak about Blu-ray and HD-DVD I'm speaking from a position of authority, not one of emotion rooted in some sort of allegiance to a format without any personal experience. People are free, of course, to show a preference for one format or another - no matter what the reason - but once stated, be done with it. When people continue to press the issue and then start talking about not owning either format because they can't see any advantage in HDM at this time they lose all credibility as far as I'm concerned. You want to own neither? Fine. But then don't continue to rail about one format's superiority to another if you are not talking from experience.

I've been around a long time on these forums (going back to the very early eighties on CES in the CEFORUM where I was an assistant Sysop). Inevitably, when discussions regarding consumer electronics get heated I have to ask the question, "Do you actually have significant personal experience with the item that you are espousing so passionately?" If the answer is, "No" then I thank them for their time and ask them to tone it down until they do. There is no substitute for experience and it's not generally productive to continue a discussion with a "third person" individual beyond a reasonable point.

Good to run into you again, Mark!

The Chargers and the Giants still playing football. Who would have thunk?

post #1177 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Dont know if this has been posted before - but it is superbly funny!!

YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD
post #1178 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

RAF, speaking on behalf of those of us who don't have either format but are planning to move forward in the near future, all formats being equal (which in itself is debatable), the need for separate competing formats in the market is no longer needed.

We have our reduced hardware prices and improved features in a timeframe shorter than those on DVD. What we don't need is 2 HD players or even a high priced combo player when there is an 80/20 split in software content.

No matter what the argument, it comes down to an 80/20 split. There is no way to get past that, and for those who want a single player, it's the only number that matters in the end.

And retailers know this too. Blu-ray will have its own retail section separate from DVDs, making it special, perhaps better, in the eyes of consumers. By mixing in HD DVD discs into the DVD release area of retail space, this might actually backfire on the studios by reducing the impact of the HD DVD disc rather than making it stand out.
post #1179 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Dont know if this has been posted before - but it is superbly funny!!

YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD

"Blades of Glory is still one of our exclusive titles..."
post #1180 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

"BLADES OF GLORY? Are you F**KING kidding me?!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Dont know if this has been posted before - but it is superbly funny!!

YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD

Oh my lord that was wonderful.
post #1181 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Tremendous film as well!
post #1182 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Hi again Robert! Always a pleasure to bump into you!

Boy, we THOROUGHLY enjoyed that Charger win here in San Diego yesterday! I was at a birthday party (50th B-day for a very good friend so I couldn't miss it) and the restaurant's private banquet room had no TVs. So, I brought along my MacBook Pro and a friend let me log into his Slingbox to stream the game to my laptop via my wireless Express Modem card! Worked great! I didn't miss a single play!

If we can get past the Pats (no easy task, I'll admit), perhaps it will be the Chargers and Giants on Feb 3? That is, if the Giants can get past Green Bay!

Anyway... to get back on topic... The more I think about this whole "combo-disc only" idea the more I like it. I don't buy EVERY title released on HDM disc. And, when I rent, I simply rent the standard def version. Sure, I tried both Blockbuster and Netflix for HDM rentals but I got sick and tired of the delays. When I'm feeling like I want to watch a specific movie, I want to watch it NOW, not 2 weeks from now. So, I get all of my SD rentals for $1 per day out of the Red Box machine at my local supermarket. And just the other day, I was thinking about how loooonnng it would be before the Red Box machine offered any sort of HDM titles. I mean, they have a finite amount of space in that box. But, if the ONLY way Red Box could buy a movie is via a disc with BOTH a SD and HD DVD side, my problem is solved! Instant high def disc rentals in the Red Box!!

It will be interesting to see what happens with Universal, Paramount and Dreamworks! But I sure hope they are considering the combo-only scenario!

Hey.... picture this.. American Gangster comes out combo-disc only. And, even though Mr. PS3 owner believes in his heart of hearts that it will eventually come out on Blu-ray, he wants to see it now. So, as with other HD DVD exclusive titles, he rents or buys the standard def DVD.

And each time he takes it out of the box, there is that "free" HD DVD side sitting in his hand. All of that high def goodness that he could enjoy if only he made the small investment in the form of a $100 HD DVD player.

Ah... the evil temptation of it all!!!

Mark
post #1183 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Combo discs are a bad idea. Can't tell which side to put up and they scratch easily. Plus it sounds like they can't produce them reliably anyway.

I hope they just stick with 2 discs in the case.
Then I can sell the HD version on E-Bay.
post #1184 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

The only way Paramount and Universal would ever release combo disks only, with no SD only counterpart and at no additional cost, would be if Toshiba paid for all the subsidization, and probably then some.

So I'm all for it as well, I figure if Toshiba goes bankrupt that will just kill off HD-DVD faster and we can move on from this war completely.
post #1185 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Dont know if this has been posted before - but it is superbly funny!!

YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD

MAGNIFICENT!! :-)
post #1186 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
RAF, speaking on behalf of those of us who don't have either format but are planning to move forward in the near future, all formats being equal (which in itself is debatable), the need for separate competing formats in the market is no longer needed.

We have our reduced hardware prices and improved features in a timeframe shorter than those on DVD. What we don't need is 2 HD players or even a high priced combo player when there is an 80/20 split in software content.

No matter what the argument, it comes down to an 80/20 split. There is no way to get past that, and for those who want a single player, it's the only number that matters in the end.

And retailers know this too. Blu-ray will have its own retail section separate from DVDs, making it special, perhaps better, in the eyes of consumers. By mixing in HD DVD discs into the DVD release area of retail space, this might actually backfire on the studios by reducing the impact of the HD DVD disc rather than making it stand out.
If that's how you see the situation, then you should be sitting back and relaxing while you wait for the result you've concluded to be inevitable. And yet here you remain, and to all appearances, far from relaxed.

M.
post #1187 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

If they had implemented the combo disc idea perfectly all along, I probably would've gone HDD already -- and probably before I went Blu. For instance, I actually debated on picking up The Departed combo disc (and paying the premium too) a good while back, but did not do it after realizing it didn't contain all the same extras -- and then, not long afterward, the SD DVD version went on big sale for the holidays, and that was the end of the story for that case as the premium was no longer relatively small. And of course, I had considered it before reading about all the playback problems w/ combo discs too -- would not have bothered at all if I knew. I had also considered the same thing w/ a few other combo disc titles too.

Anyway, if they actually decide to go w/ combo releases w/ separate HD and SD discs w/out losing any extras and w/out charging a premium over what the SD disc would normally be, sure, I'll buy those even though I don't have a player at this time since they are HDD exclusive (for now anyway). If they manage to sell a few titles that way to me and still look like they'll continue the format war at that point, sure, I'll then go buy a player for those HDD exclusive titles (plus the bunch of free ones that come w/ the player)...

_Man_
post #1188 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Dont know if this has been posted before - but it is superbly funny!!

YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
post #1189 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
If that's how you see the situation, then you should be sitting back and relaxing while you wait for the result you've concluded to be inevitable. And yet here you remain, and to all appearances, far from relaxed.

M.

I'm perfectly relaxed sitting on my couch watching my cable HD channels while typing these posts on my laptop. I have plenty of time on my hands during the day as a stay at home dad during naptime.

I like to exercise my analytical tools as much as I can, which is why I look at all sides of the debate and weigh the various facts and opinions differently.

Of course, until there is announcement from Universal and/or Paramount, these dual-format releases are just vaporware and we're all speculating.
post #1190 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
YouTube - The Downfall of HD-DVD



Cees
post #1191 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Mark Booth: So, suppose that Universal, Paramount and Dreamworks remain faithful to HD DVD. And suppose they decide to not only continue to release titles on HD DVD but to package them TOGETHER with each and every standard def DVD release. Every release from those three with BOTH the standard def DVD and the HD DVD version in the same case, all priced within a dollar or two of the SD versions now. These could be either combo discs or two disc sets (SD and HD DVD). There wouldn't be any standard def only versions going forward.

I dont get it? It's a format war not a studio war, why would the remaining HD DVD studios "give away HDM"??? Toshiba can undercut any CE because they get their money back on licensing fees because they own the HD DVD format. How would those studios recoup their loses when they give away free HDM??? If they up the price of these "combos" then it would piss off SD DVD users that have to pay a premium for HDM when they dont have a HD DVD player...

I thought the whole point of HDM was to increase revenues for studios since the SD DVD market is "flat" or "declining"...
post #1192 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

That youtube video is priceless.

Quote:
But....
NOBODY tried what is being suggested here, which is that the studios eat the markup on combo releases and only release combo discs for new releases. If this strategy had been adopted from the get-go, HD DVD would have enjoyed greater market penetration and J6P would have a built-in library when he got around to buying an HD DVD player. Warner did release all new releases as combos, but they didn't discontinue SD only releases.

Combo discs cost more to produce than standard HD DVD or DVD discs alone. They also can't have a "safe side" with silkscreen art so consumers have to get out the reading glasses to read the small print to figure out which way to insert the disc. Sounds like a minor inconvenience, but to "average" consumers this sort of things matters.

I agree with the concept of comb-disc media, and like the idea of both forwards and backwards compatibitlity. If all layers could be access from one side (I belive that some combos can be done this way) that's far preferrable, if the single-side structure allows for uncompromised bit-space. However, that still wouldn't negate the added costs of production making it not feasable for a studio to go "everything on combo" to try to sway the war.

Not to mention that combo discs really wouldn't sway the way... because they play in Blu-ray Disc players too... on the DVD side... and the "regular" consumers buying them to get access to the DVD don't really understand the purpose of that HD DVD side anyway.
post #1193 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

NO KIDDING on the tiny print!!!!

I wound up watching the lastest Potter flick in SD!

Akk.....
post #1194 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

What's so freakin' difficult? If the small print side is up, you're watching the HD DVD side. If there's no printing on the side that is up, you're about to watch the standard def side. You don't even have to read the printing. Either it is there, or it isn't.

That's the way all of the combos I have are printed.

Mark
post #1195 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Not owning the titles, I have a question...If you can't read the small print, how do you know which side means which in the first place? Is there something in the insert that indicates what small print vs no small print actually means?
post #1196 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth
What's so freakin' difficult? If the small print side is up, you're watching the HD DVD side. If there's no printing on the side that is up, you're about to watch the standard def side. You don't even have to read the printing. Either it is there, or it isn't.

That's the way all of the combos I have are printed.

Mark
I have many friends of advancing age [including my parents], to whom the small print might as well be braille. And when I mean advancing, I don't mean in their 80s. Late 40s/Early 50s and up.
post #1197 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
I have many friends of advancing age [including my parents], to whom the small print might as well be braille. And when I mean advancing, I don't mean in their 80s. Late 40s/Early 50s and up.


Well if thats the case they are hardly going to notice the benefits of HD anyway!!

Come off it - its not rocket science- the sides of each discs are also a slightly different colour.
post #1198 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Well if thats the case they are hardly going to notice the benefits of HD anyway!!

Come off it - its not rocket science- the sides of each discs are also a slightly different colour.
It's nice of you to take that decision away from them. You know some people can have trouble reading fine print on a disc but still tell the difference between HD and non-HD material.

And while the meaning of the different colored sides may be "common knowledge" to HT people, I thought getting market penetration was all about getting the mass-market people to buy in, to not remain a niche format? If so, for some of those people (who still haven't set the time on their VCRs) it is rocket science.
post #1199 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
I have many friends of advancing age [including my parents], to whom the small print might as well be braille. And when I mean advancing, I don't mean in their 80s. Late 40s/Early 50s and up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Harvey
Well if thats the case they are hardly going to notice the benefits of HD anyway!!


Not true. Being one of them, I notice the difference.
post #1200 of 1635

Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Just a thought . . .

Would production of the HD-DVD layer of a combo disc become a major bottleneck in the overall operation? I know that HD-DVDs can be replicated using existing DVD replicators, but is there any extra cost involved for equipment add-ons or whatever? (I'm thinking here about the increased density of pits on the disc versus DVD.)

I'm also wondering why this hasn't been tried before (on Transformers, for instance), if it seems like such a no-brainer of a good idea on paper (and I agree that it is). If millions of Transformers DVDs can be produced versus less than 250,000 (or so) HD-DVDs, it would seem to me that the cost of add-on equipment would be among the limiting factors of the all-combo-disc plan going forward.
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