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Why the Black Bars? - Page 2

post #31 of 42
1/6/08 at 12:59pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Lee
I remember watching Robert Redford's The Horse Whisperer in the theatre and the movie starts in an 1.85 aspect ratio when it's set in New York City but then changes to 2.35 when it moves to the open country. The screen changed shape DURING the movie; the first and only time I've ever seen that.


Galaxy Quest also did this. It starts at 1.85:1 when they are on Earth, and switches to 2.35:1 when they get into space. Sort of like Dorthy opening the door to OZ and the film goes from B&W to color. Unfortunately the DVD didn't follow this pattern.



Doug
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post #32 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:02pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Galaxy Quest also did this. It starts at 1.85:1 when they are on Earth, and switches to 2.35:1 when they get into space. Sort of like Dorthy opening the door to OZ and the film goes from B&W to color. Unfortunately the DVD didn't follow this pattern.



Doug
Perhaps the HDM version can restore this? I don't remember noticing that (only saw it once at the cinema) but it would be cool.
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post #33 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:03pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
arent the bars NOT part of the resolution of the image.
in other words isnt the full 1080 or 720 or 480 lines enclosed only in the produced image of a 16x9 enhanced dvd.

No its not like an anamorphic DVD where the 16x9 image is squeezed into the 4x3 picture. HD has no anamorphic provision. A 2.35:1 image has black bars on the actual video itself, just as a 1.37:1 has the black bars on the sides.

Doug
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post #34 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:05pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

oh right, i forgot this was a HD question.
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post #35 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:21pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Galaxy Quest also did this. It starts at 1.85:1 when they are on Earth, and switches to 2.35:1 when they get into space. Sort of like Dorthy opening the door to OZ and the film goes from B&W to color. Unfortunately the DVD didn't follow this pattern.

Really? I saw Galaxy Quest in the theatre but don't remember this at all (and I enjoyed that movie much more than The Horse Whisperer). So how is the first part framed on the DVD? Is the 1.85 cropped to 2.35? Or does it use black bars on the side?

Oh, BTW, I don't think the screen should have altered during the presentation of The Horse Whisperer. Now that I think about it, I think it was set at 2.35 at the beginning but idiot that I was, I thought it was a projectionist mistake so I went to complain. They then changed the screen shape to 1.85 but then, when the movie shifted to 2.35, parts of the picture was projected on the wall! So they changed it back to 2.35.
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post #36 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:25pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Ahh, ok, so the crux of the matter is that there are several "wide screen" formats. That's the "problem" so to speak.
In a perfect world, HDTV would have been exactly the same ratio as every single movie out there, and every single movie out there would be in the same ratio that everyone agreed to in this perfect world.
No worries, I don't really mind the black bars, I just prefer the look of the whole screen being filled up, jut a personal preference.
I used to have a projector (720p) and a 110" 16x9 screen, I guess one didn't notice it as much as one does on a HDTV.
Next time I move I will get another projector, I miss the "movie" feeling I think you can only really get with a projected image. Again, just a preference, don't want to start another tizzy...
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post #37 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:34pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Lee
Really? I saw Galaxy Quest in the theatre but don't remember this at all (and I enjoyed that movie much more than The Horse Whisperer). So how is the first part framed on the DVD? Is the 1.85 cropped to 2.35? Or does it use black bars on the side?

Oh, BTW, I don't think the screen should have altered during the presentation of The Horse Whisperer. Now that I think about it, I think it was set at 2.35 at the beginning but idiot that I was, I thought it was a projectionist mistake so I went to complain. They then changed the screen shape to 1.85 but then, when the movie shifted to 2.35, parts of the picture was projected on the wall! So they changed it back to 2.35.

Galaxy Quest was a Super 35 film so the opening in the theater was just cropped to 1.85:1. Super 35 can be cropped at pretty much any aspect ratio.

On the DVD they just cropped the whole thing at 2.35:1

And you were right in the first place about The Horse Whisperer. A friend of mine saw it in the theater and called me as soon as he saw it going on and on about the aspect ratio change.

Doug
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post #38 of 42
1/6/08 at 1:37pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusinCA
Ahh, ok, so the crux of the matter is that there are several "wide screen" formats. That's the "problem" so to speak.
In a perfect world, HDTV would have been exactly the same ratio as every single movie out there, and every single movie out there would be in the same ratio that everyone agreed to in this perfect world.
No worries, I don't really mind the black bars, I just prefer the look of the whole screen being filled up, jut a personal preference.
I used to have a projector (720p) and a 110" 16x9 screen, I guess one didn't notice it as much as one does on a HDTV.
Next time I move I will get another projector, I miss the "movie" feeling I think you can only really get with a projected image. Again, just a preference, don't want to start another tizzy...

You could always get some black velvet material and create adjustable masks to cover your TV at the various aspect ratios. If you don't see the edges of your TV, I don't think the fact that they are different ratios will make a big deal to you.

I know there was a company that made masks for this that would fit the different sized TV screens, but I don't know if they are still in business.

Doug
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post #39 of 42
1/6/08 at 2:11pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusinCA
Ahh, ok, so the crux of the matter is that there are several "wide screen" formats. That's the "problem" so to speak.
In a perfect world, HDTV would have been exactly the same ratio as every single movie out there, and every single movie out there would be in the same ratio that everyone agreed to in this perfect world.
No worries, I don't really mind the black bars, I just prefer the look of the whole screen being filled up, jut a personal preference.
I used to have a projector (720p) and a 110" 16x9 screen, I guess one didn't notice it as much as one does on a HDTV.
Next time I move I will get another projector, I miss the "movie" feeling I think you can only really get with a projected image. Again, just a preference, don't want to start another tizzy...
That's not a perfect world, as it removes creative choice from the filmmaker.

It's like saying, in a perfect world all photographs would be 4"x6" (no 5"x7", no 8"x10", and certainly not custom murals!) so all frames could be the same ratio.
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post #40 of 42
1/6/08 at 3:18pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

Two other examples of shifting aspect ratios during the movie are The Crocodile Hunter: Collision Course and Brother Bear. BB is 1.85:1 for the first 24 minutes with muted colours, then shifts to 2.35:1 for the remaining hour with brighter colours. In the case of TCH:CC, the movie constantly shifts between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1, with the plotline of the film being "wider" and the "show" segments in the narrower format. These are both properly presented on DVD.
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post #41 of 42
1/6/08 at 3:46pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

My best example of this is Star Wars Episode 4 (original 1977 movie) I own the original vhs release of it & it is full screen (before I knew there was a difference),I place it & the dvd of it in my dvd/vcr & cue them up to the same point in the film & toggle between them to show people the difference between "full" & "wide" & have shown more than a few people what a difference! You get used to the black bars when realizing you are indeed seeing the "entire" movie rather that it being centered & filling the screen.
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post #42 of 42
1/6/08 at 4:03pm

Re: Why the Black Bars?

i mentioned brother bear only a few posts back.

i didnt know about croc hunter tho'
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