Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I'd like to know the same thing. If I'm going to get a BR player, and all the reviews on this Panny are glowing, I want to know how the upconvert looks...as compared to the Tosh A2?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Its upscaling isn't bad and looks decent on my 50" SXRD @1080P. It's not as good as some of the REON players however.

I've owned both the BD30 and a PS3 and the BD30 loads just as fast as the PS3. Load speeds are extremely quick, even on Java titles.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

What makes the BD30 better than the PS3? What video solution is the BD10 and BD30 using to output 1080p? How does it compare to the XA2's Reon chip and the DVDO solutions? A moot point for me, as I'll probably just output 1080i to my VP50.

Do either of the BD10 (10A?) or BD30 decode HD audio? DD True HD and DD+? DTS-HR and DTS-core from DTS MA? Can they output these PCM over HDMI?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

The BD30 and BD10 are using different chip solutions. The BD30 is only designed for bitstreaming advanced audio which means you need an HDMI receiver which will decode them.

Having compared the PS3 to the BD30 at 1080p/24, the BD30 does produce a slightly better BD picture.

As far as SD DVD upscaling, the BD30 is not very good. It's image is pretty sharp, but very noisey and non-smooth. Very "un-filmlike." In addition, it won't even pass one single test on the HQV benchmark disc.

I use the BD30 strictly for Blu-ray; however, I need to find a SD DVD solution - I'm keeping my eyes and ears on the new Oppo 983 which is coming out soon - it uses an ABT solution and should be quite a player.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

So the BD30 does fine with 1080 Blu-Ray discs? How does the BD10 compare? How else do these players differ apart from the audio?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

How well does the DMP-BD30K perform? Anyone here have this player hooked up to a HDMI 1.3 receiver that has Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA decoding? Has there been any problems with the advanced lossless codex being sent to the receiver? I currently am looking into another player to upgrade my current Sony BDP-S300 because it will not bitstream DTHD or DTS-HD MA. I am looking to upgrade the Blu-ray player after I buy my receiver, most likely the Denon AVR-3808ci. I am also considering the Denon DVD-2500BTCI Blu-ray Transport. But since it does not use a Realta HQV or Reon-HQV™ processor so I am revaluating if I am going to actually buy it or not. I am now considering the Panasonic DMP-BD30K as an alternate player.

I would apreciate hearing from anyone that has this player and uses it with a new receiver.

• How good does the video look via HDMI?
• Does the player properly bitstream Dolby True HD?
• Does the player properly bitstream DTS-HD Master Audio?
• How well does the player perform overall?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Yes 7.1 DTS MA titles aren't recognized by the Denon models when sent bitstream. The other formats(Dolby True HD, and PCM) work fine.

I'm impressed with it myself. It properly bitstreams audio even 7.1(as long as you don't own a Denon). The video looks spectacular. The loading of discs is super speedy. If Denon releases a firmware update(or a fix) then it's a solid combination. Until then, you don't get DTS MA 7.1 which hurts a bit because Lionsgate and New Line are using that exclusively now. It know 7.1 DTS MA is seen correctly by an Onkyo and a Yamaha so clearly it's not a player fault.

The only player flaw is certain discs aren't not playing friendly with the player. Sunshine is an example.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Hey Shane,

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

Do you know how many discs do not play or have problems with the DMP-BD30K?

Since the Denon AVR-3808ci's firmware can be updated via it ethernet connection I fell its only a matter of time before Denon corrects it. Denon has a good reputation and I do not think it will take them long to correct the problem with the 7.1 DTS-HD MA decoding.

Also does anyone have the DMP-BD30K hooked up to the Onkyo TX-SR875? I am going to keep the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and the Onkyo TX-SR875 as alternate choices if I do not buy the Denon AVR-3808ci.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I know Sunshine was one. I don't know about the others.

I'm currently testing a Yamaha RXV3800. It's quite nice but a bit too shrill sounding for my tastes and I don't care for the EQ much as it's limited to >60hz. It's a loaner so I can't complain for the time being. I'll have to go back to non-lossless soon as my friend will finally want it. He's building a theater and let me try out the 3800 since I'm in the market. The 875/905 are the 2 receivers I'm looking at. My friend has the 805 and the 875 uses the same amp section except it has a better scaler. Beyond that, the differences between the 875 and 805 are subtle. The only real knock on the 875 is the heat it generates. It's a non-issue for me but if you have a closed cabinet, you want to make sure it has good airflow otherwise it's better IMHO than the 3808. The scaler is way better and it has more power. Sound wise, it's a matter of opinion. Between those 4(including the Pioneer), it comes down to brand preference and which options you value the most. The scaler is more valuable to me so the 875 is what I'm leaning towards. The DTS MA 7.1 issue isn't hurting matters either.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I currently own the Panny BD30, Sony SXRD tv, and HD cable box and am in the market for a new receiver. Like most people I have considered the HK247 & 347, Onkyo 605, and Yamaha 659 & 661. To my understanding to get the benefit of the new DTHD and DTS-HD MA I would need a receiver that can decode HDMI 1.3...is this correct? Of the list of receivers I mentioned, the Onkyo is the only one that I am aware of that would do this but is my last choice for various reasons. I am leaning towards picking up the 659 now, as I can get a good deal on one, and then upgrading to a 1.3 HDMI receiver next year. Is there anything that I am misunderstanding or should be aware of? Thanks for all of the help.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Since we're off on a tangent now -- and nobody seems to have more to say about the original topic -- can someone tell me which A/V receivers (in the range of Onkyo 805) offer true direct bypass mode for analog audio sources along w/ preamp out?

Seems that the Onkyo 805 does not offer true direct bypass mode as the Secrets' review says "any and all digital audio processing is still very much alive". Oddly, according to the review, the 805 still won't offer (digital) bass management and time alignment since it doesn't "digitize the 5.1 analog input". So does that mean the digital audio sections are running, but just not doing anything for analog sources? At first, I thought he meant an A-to-D-to-A conversion is forced on all analog sources, but the last comment says otherwise.

Also, anyone know if it's possible for these receivers to downmix the various lossless formats to 4.0 output? I may just go ahead and finally add a matching center speaker, but I'm still not sure I want to add a sub considering my living space (and neighbors). I find my Vandersteen 2Ci's satisfying enough for handling whatever LFE that gets downmixed to them right now.

I'm thinking about using the Onkyo 805 to pass preamp out to my old B&K AV amp, and I'll probably run my Denon 2910's 5.1 output to it for hirez audio. Will be using the PS3 for BD/DVD playback for the forseeable future.

Thanks for any input on this...

_Man_

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I am not sure I would go with the 805 I have been hearing about these ether catching fire or just going up in smoke. The 805 looks really nice and it supposedly puts out what it says it puts out power wise. But it runs really hot and you may not want a receiver that runs really hot.

I am currently looking into my next receiver and I have to save up for it. But the only two Onkyo's I will concider at this point is the TX-SR875 and the TX-NR905. They have the Reon HQV chip and it might be a good investment over the 805 that uses the Faroudja chip. I am also checking out the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and Denon AVR-3808ci receivers. If I had a nice budget I would get the Denon AVR-5308ci and add some nice high end power amps. But since I do have a budget it most likely will come down to ether the Denon AVR-3808ci or Onkyo TX-SR-875.

Onkyo:
TX-SR805 SRP$1,099
130 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 60A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling -
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 3 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

TX-SR875 SRP$1,699
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 65A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Reon (HQV)
1080p Upscaling Reon (HQV)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1

TX-SR905 SRP$2,099
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 5Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: 70A
Direct/Pure Mode
480i to 480p Processing Reon (HQV)
1080p Upscaling Reon (HQV)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 2
Toridal Transformer

Yamaha:
RX-V3800 SRP$1,699.95
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response ?
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
Compressed Music Enhancer
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080i/1080p Silicon Optix (HQV) Scaler
HDMI V1.3 / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

Pioneer Elite:
VSX-94TXH SRP$1,600
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response ?
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Stream Direct
Room Calibration: Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out

Denon:
AVR-3808ci SRP$1,599
130 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
Upgradeable to Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 2
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2

AVR4308ci SRP$2,499
140 Watts per channel X 7 channel
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Advanced AL24 Processing - All Channels
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
480i to 480p Processing Faroudja (DCDi)
1080p Upscaling Faroudja (DCDi)
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 4 / 1
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2

AVR5308ci SRP$5,200
150 Watts per channel X 7 channel
THX Ultra2-Certified
Amplifier Frequency Response 10Hz-100kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability: ?
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
Pure Direct Mode
Advanced AL24 Processing - All Channels
Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup
Upgradeable to Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
480i to 480p Processing Realta HQV
1080p Upscaling Realta HQV scaling 1080p
HDMI V1.3 Repeater / 1080p
HDMI In/Out 6 / 2
Analog Inputs / Preamp Out
Ethernet/USB
12v Triggers - 2
RS-232 (2)
Toroidal Power Transformer: 1 Main Toroid + 3 standard type sub transformers

I did recently check out the Panasonic DMP-BD30 the same day I was checking out the Denon AVR-3808ci and I really liked the picture on the BD30. If I do not buy the Denon DVD-2500 BT, I will definantly get the Panasonic.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Thing for me is, if I need to move up to the Onkyo 875 range, then I might as well go for the Integra 9.8 prepro (to pair w/ my B&K amp), no? Street price on the receiver might be a bit better, but probably not by enough to matter me thinks.

BTW, doesn't the 875 run just as hot as the 805? I don't use a closed rack/cabinet, so the extra space heater might not be so bad for me -- and the AC isn't too far away for the summer months either.

One other thing. Toward the end of the Secrets' review, it mentions that the 805 consumes a lot of power just for the "HDMI-Control" mode (even when powered off!). I wonder if that doesn't have something to do w/ all the complaints about the receiver running hot. Maybe it doesn't run so hot if that's turned off.

_Man_

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

One thing I have to say about the Onkyo 805 is for the price it does have alot of features. But all it would take is for just one to go up in smoke and I would be pissed. And since it does not have the Reon chip I might as well go with the Denon at that point.

I guess the Integra 9.8 prepro with a pair B&K amps would be nice to. It seems to have alot going for it as well.

Intergra DTC- 9.8 RSP $1,600
AUDIO PROCESSING:
• THX Ultra2 Certified
• Toroidal Transformer Plus 2 Separate Power Transformers for Audio & Video Processing
• HDMI (v.1.3a) Audio & Video Processing
• Audyssey MultiEQ XT Advanced Room Correction
• DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus Decoding
• Burr Brown 192khz/24-bit DACs for all channels
• Neural THX Surround Processing
• Three Advanced TI 32-Bit Processing DSP Chips
• Linear Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry
• VLSC - Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry - All Channels
• Bi-Amp Capability for Front L/R Channels
• IntelliVolume Input Level Calibration System
• 15-band Graphic Equalizer
• Variable Crossover Settings by Channel Pair
• Accurate Speaker Distance Settings (0.2 ft increments)
• A/V Sync Delay Adjustment by Input (up to 250ms)
VIDEO PROCESSING:
• HQV Reon-VX Processing for Premium Quality HDMI Upscaling/Transcoding of All Sources (up to 1080p)
•Deep Color™ (36 bit) Capable HDMI (4-in/2-out)
• HD Component Video (100 MHz) w/Upconversion
CONNECTIONS:
• 7.1 Channel Balanced Line Level XLR Outputs
• 2 Channel Balanced XLR Audio Input (assignable)
• 7.1 Multichannel Input & Pre-output
• XM® & SIRIUS Satellite Radio Ready [Required XM or SIRIUS tuner, antenna, and subscription sold separately.]
• HD Radio Reception Capability
• Assignable Digital Inputs (4 HDMI/3 optical/3 coaxial)
• HDMI/Component Video Assignable to Tape/CD/Phono
• 1 Optical Digital Output
• Front Panel A/V Inputs (including optical)
CUSTOM INTEGRATION FEATURES:
• Bi-directional Ethernet & RS-232 Port for 3rd Party Control Systems (Device Discovery, E-control, etc.)
• Fixed/Variable/Powered Zone 2w/ HD Component Video & Subwoofer Output
• Zone 2 Bass/Treble/Balance Controls
• Main Zone/2/3 & Zone 2 Max & Power On Volume Settings
• Dealer Settings Memory Store & Recall w/Lock/Unlock
• Permanently Stored Memory Settings
• Dual IR Inputs w/Common Output
• 3 Programmable 12V triggers (w/adj. delay)
• RIHD for System Control via HDMI
• Optional Rack Mount Kit Available (IRK-155-3A)

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I think maybe I just need Outlaw (or perhaps Rotel) to come out w/ a prepro for my needs.

_Man_

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

i have the Panasonic and the Toshiba, and the Panasonic is notably worse than the Toshiba in upscaling. It just looks less HD-like and more like you are watching upconverted DVD. If you use a VP for deinterlacing with the Panny it helps things a bit though.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Unless the build quality/looks/reputation of the Denon are important factors to you, and/or you can purchase one for a great price--I'd suggest (IMHO, of course) you go w/ the Panny BD30, if you had to choose between it and the Denon; from what I've read elsewhere, the performance of both units are quite comparable. Not only that, they both also share the same PCM/LFE bug (where LFE on uncompressed PCM tracks output via HDMI is -5dB lower than the other channels).

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Thanks for the input Tony, I am going to take a wait and see approach regaurding the Denon. My primary focus right now is saving up for a new receiver. And I still have to actually choose the receiver I am going to buy. So after that is all done and behind me, that is when I will focus on upgrading my Blu-ray player. I will have to save up for that as well. But I could very well end up with a Pioneer Elite receiver and Blu-ray player, you never know what will happen? I am leaning towards the Denon 3808ci so far with the Integra 7.8 in a very close second. I am still looking to check out the Onkyo 875 with the Reon scaler, but I have to admit that the heat issue concerns me. IMHO heat will most likely end up shortening the life of the 875 and I can not see it lasting 11+ years like my Yamaha RX-V995.

I am very impressed with the picture quality of the Panasonic DM30K and it could very well end up being my next Blu-ray player. I have to admit that I am pushing the budget envelope getting the Denon. But the goal is to have the best performance for the money. The Panasonic would look great sitting under a Denon or Integra receiver. I just need to save the money so I can actually buy the gear.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Dave--LOL @ your "Panasonic looking great sitting under a Denon" comment...I have both a BD30 and a 3808ci, but in my setup the BD30 is sitting above the 3808. Yes, ideally it should be the other way around (I went w/ the "heavier devices on the bottom" placement concept) but my low-profile A/V cabinet has an open back and both A/V devices are separated by a fairly-thick wooden shelf, so I'm not too concerned about too much radiated heat from the 3808 hitting the BD30.

The Onkyo 875 is indeed an attractive option, feature-wise--if anything, because of the Reon chip; I don't remember if the 875 had the same lip-sync issues that other folks alluded to w/ the 705 and 805 models but I do know that these issues did scare some folks away from the Onkyo and towards the Denon 3808.

Back to the Panny BD30--for some folks, the lack of a fix for the PCM LFE issue (last I heard is that Panny won't offer a fix because they consider the 5db drop to be within normal specifications or something along those lines) is a deal-killer...to the point that those folks who are still in their return period have stated that they will return their BD30 units. It goes w/o saying that it's up to you to decide if you still wish to go w/ the BD30. Then again, you could just tell yourself to go for broke and just go w/ the Denon 3800BDCI instead (note--the 2500 has no analog outs...dunno if that's important to you), which I've yet to see anyone state that it too has the same LFE bug that afflicts the Denon 2500 and Panny BD30.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Hey Tony,

I have some time to think it over and make a decission later. The Denon 2500BT not having analog or digital outs is no big deal. I had planed on decoding everything in the receiver so for me its not an issue. I am going to keep an open mind and if something else comes along I might consider that as well. Maybe if people return enough DM30's Panasonics might change there mind and fix the LFE bug? I would think that it could be fixed with a firmware update.

Does the Panasonic DMP-BD50 have the same LFE bug?

My main concern with the Onkyo 805 is the heat issue and hearing from a few sources that there have been some units that have ether caught fire or gone up in smoke. The heat issue also will most likely shorten the life of the processors as well. I know that heat can shorten the life of a pc cpu when you over clock it to much. It is however hard to beat the features for the $1k price tag when everything else with the same features cost hundreds more.

In your honest opinion Tony, is the LFE issue enough to stay away from the DM30? Does it really effect the audio presentation emough to make a difference?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

I've never used the BD10, but from all accounts it's not as good as the BD30 for Blu-ray. The BD30 reads 1080p/24 off the disc where as the BD10 does not.

All Panasonic BD players suffer from the LFE PCM bug where it's 5db too low.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Dave M.,

There's a really heated discussion regarding the BD30 LFE bug over on AVSforumdotcom; as to whether the BD50 might be afflicted by the same bug--given the following:

1) The BD10--which IIRC came before the BD30--has the bug;
2) The general feeling is that Panny won't fix it because it is "within specs".

...one could surmise that Panny isn't really too interested in ensuring that the bug isn't apparent on the BD50...but it goes w/o saying that it won't be known until folks get their hands on one and find out for themselves. Also--purportedly, they could fix it but "claim" that such a fix would lead to the analog LFE output to run 5db hotter than it did before the fix.

I understand your concerns about the Onkyo; I have nothing against Onkyo myself, and have to admit that they do offer a pretty good bang for the buck. However, I must also admit to being a bit biased in favor of Denon AVRs...if only because I've always wanted to own one--I had my eyes on a 3803 back in the day but wasn't as willing to expand my budget, so I settled for a Sony DA4ES instead.

As far as whether the LFE issue is a deal-killer for the BD30--my ears aren't that discerning/discriminating enough that it'd ruin my overall HT experience (IOW--I'm not returning my BD30...well I can't anyways since I'm past my return period but I'd still keep it nonetheless); your ears may be more discerning. To be politely blunt, the only way you can decide for yourself is to A/B the BD30 against a PS3 or any other non-Panny BD player (except the Denon 2500) playing a BD movie that has an uncompressed PCM soundtrack (like pretty much most Disney/Buena Vista BD titles); the difference is noticeable...how noticeable it is to you will be the determining factor.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Thank you Tony for your input it is very much appreciated.

I am thinking about pushing back my dates for when I will actually upgrade certain pieces of equipment. If I do that it will be because I will try to set aside more money per upgrade to try to obtain better equipment for a nicer HT. Needless to say that money is very tight but I am trying to not only save as much as possible. But I am also trying to maximize my cash and get the biggest bang for my buck.

My current upgrade path:

Receiver: Absolute max cash I will spend $2,600

• Denon AVR-3808ci - Faroudja DCDi $1,599
• Denon AVR-4308ci - Faroudja DCDi $2,499
• Integra DTR 7.8 - Faroudja DCDi $1,300
• Integra DTR 8.8 - Reon HQV $2,400 (Toridal Transformer)
• Onkyo TX-SR875 - Reon HQV $1,699
• Onkyo TX-SR905 - Reon HQV $2,099 (Toridal Transformer)

Blu-ray Player: Most likely $999 is my limit

• Panasonic DMP-BD30K $500
• Panasonic DMP-BD50K $?
• Pioneer BDP-95FD $999
• Denon DVD-2500BTCI $999
• Denon DVD-3800BDCI $1,999

HD-DVD Player

• Toshiba HD-A35 $299 (What I will most likely end up with)
• Onkyo DV-HD805 Reon HQV $899

Anyway the receiver comes first and I will then I will save up for the Blu-ray upgrade. The decision of what receiver I am going to buy may end up being dificult. If the Reon is the best scaler solution by far and actually offers a big enough diffence then the Onkyo is the least exspensive receiver that includes the Reon. But with heat issues and the fact I am not sure I can trust it, I am not sure if I could pull the trigger or not? But I will say one thing the Onkyo 805, 875 and 905 are built like a dam tank, aprox 51lbs. The Integra is next up the line and more exspensive than the Denon 3808ci and almost as exspensive as the 4308ci. Like I said its not going to be easy to choose as there are so many to choose from. And as much as I like Denon there is no way I can afford $5,200 for the Denon AVR-5308ci just to get the toridal transformer and Realta HQV scaler. Hell at that rate if I was going to spend the $$ I might as well get the Denon AVP-A1HDCI Preamp for $7,000 along with the matching power amp for $7k. But that is not happening in my life time that is for sure.

Something however tells me if I settle for the Onyo TX-SR805 my HT will be just ok and I will most likely not be happy with it in the end. Especially if the video has the problem with downgrading resolutions?

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Dave,

Not to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you've compared the differences in feature-set between the Denon 3808ci and 4308ci; you'll have to ask yourself if built-in Wifi, HD radio, 2 (vs. 1) HDMI outputs, 4-zone (vs. 3) capability and the extra 10w/ch. that the 4308 offers over the 3808 is worth the extra $900 list price difference--for me, it wasn't. I have to admit I'm not too familiar w/ the Integra but have heard nothing but good things about them. The Onkyo 875 is a worthy alternative to the Denon 3808, given that it has the Reon HQV and is THX Ultra2-certified and retails for pretty much the same price as that of the 3808; however, the lip sync issue scared me away. I can't say as to how warm the Onkyo runs compared to the Denon since I don't own one, but FWIW my 3808 doesn't feel overly warm; in fact it seems like it runs a few degrees cooler than my 5-year old Sony DA4ES.

Regarding your Blu-ray player choices--if you're willing to spend a max of $999, IMHO you'd be better off getting the Pioneer over the Denon, given the Denon's PCM LFE bug. Having said that--IMHO if the PCM LFE bug isn't a big deal to you, I'd say go w/ the Panny BD30 (no point getting the Denon 2500 since it has the same bug, and end-user reports so far indicate that its performance isn't that much better than the Panny), as the general consensus seems to be that it is indeed currently the best bang for the buck as far as standalone BD players go--and in my case, getting a Best Buy 110% PM on a $130 difference in price against Fry's (plus any 5 free BD movies in-store) made my choice even easier. The Pioneer is slightly-better (subjectively speaking, depending on who you choose to believe) than the Panny...but not $499 (list price) better.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Yes Tony I have compared the difference between the 3808ci and the 4308ci. The 4308ci is on the consideration list as just that a consideration. It is not likely that I will buy the 4308ci but I am trying to be thoro in my search for my next receiver. I have a feeling that if I did not put it on and only had the Integra DTR 8.8 someone would have said, why don't you have the Denon 4308ci on there?

Denon 3808ci Receiver MSRP $1,599

• 130 watts x 7 channels
• Ethernet network port
• XM ready tuning
• Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio
• Audyssey MultEQ XT & MultEQ Pro calibration installer ready
• Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready
• DSP Effect Modes - 10
• 4 HDMI 1080p/1.3a repeater type Inputs - 1 HDMI 1080p Out
• New Network Streaming - also DNLA Certified
• Internet Radio - MP3 & WMA Compatible
• 24-bit/192-kHz DACs – Burr-Brown PCM-1791/PCM-1791A - 2 x 8 channels
• Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Bit Depth/Sampling Rate/24-bit/192kHz Burr-Brown PCM-1804
• Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup/Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
• Video Conversion – Analog to HDMI - Y/ with Faroudja DCDi FLi2310 scaling 1080p
• AL24 Processing Plus

Denon 4308ci MSRP $2,499

• 140 watts x 7 channels
• Wi-Fi and Network capable
• HD Radio and XM ready tuning
• Ethernet network port
• Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio
• Audyssey MultEQ XT & MultEQ Pro calibration installer ready
• Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready
• DSP Effect Modes - 10
• 4 HDMI 1080p/1.3a repeater type Inputs - 2 HDMI 1080p Out
• New Network Streaming - also DNLA and Wi-Fi 802.11
• Internet Radio - MP3 & WMA Compatible
• 24-bit/192-kHz DACs – Burr-Brown PCM-1791/PCM-1791A - 2 x 8 channels
• Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Bit Depth/Sampling Rate/24-bit/192kHz Burr-Brown PCM-1804
• Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup/Audyssey Pro 32 position using optional software
• Video Conversion – Analog to HDMI - Y/with Faroudja DCDi FLi2310 scaling 1080p
• Advanced AL24 Processing - Multi-Channel

Yes I agree Tony that even for me that the 4308 may not be worth the extra money. However like I said I placed it on the list for consideration because of the other receivers on the list. I keep hearing that the Reon chip is the way to go and is better than the Faroudja. I have wanted a Denon for so long but since I am trying to buy the best for my money. This means in the end the Denon may or may not end up in my home theater setup. I also have to consider this when choosing my next Blu-ray player and HD-DVD player. How good will SACD and DVD-A sound on it among other things to take into consideration.

One thing I may have to accept is that if the economy gets alot worse and I have alot less money to put away for a receiver. In a wost case scenario I might have to settle for something like the Onkyo TX-SR805 and wait 4 or 5 years to upgrade to something alot better. But for now I not only want something better than my current Yamaha RX-V995 and something better than the Onkyo TX-SR805 that will not upconvert 480p DVD to 1080p through the HDMI. I beleive that was what I was trying to remember on my last response. The Onkyo TX-SR875 does upconver via the receivers scaler so even my older Sony DVP-S9000 ES DVD player could become a good transport in a way.


Later on in the second half of the year I will be keeping the Panasonic DMP-BD30K as a lower cost option to the Denon DVD-2500BTCI. Especially if I end up with a receiver that has the Reon chip in it. That may be a good match if I am to upgrade to a Toshiba HD-A35 as well. Like I said there is alot to consider but I know what you are saying about the differences in features vs cost on the Denon 3808 and 4308 receivers.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

That wouldn't be so horrible, I think, considering Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi gave the Onkyo TX-SR805 "Best AV Receiver of 2007"

Secrets Best of 2007 Product Awards | Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Was nice to see my Integra DTC-9.8 in there as well as "Best Surround Processor of 2007"

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

While I am definantly staying away from Sony, Sherwood, Kenwood and JVC receivers. The Onkyo TX-SR805 would be on the bottom of my list even with Secrets Of Home Theater giving it a thumbs up. I actully can't say that there is no way it would ever sit in my ht rack. But it will most likely not unless I can not afford anything better. I am working on raising the bar of my HT and would like to have something alot better than the 805, I guess only time will tell.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

The LFE bug has been fix on the BD30 with the latest FW Upgrade released a few days ago.

Re: Panny DMP-BD30K upscaling ability?

Since my budget has gone down I will be all over the Panny BD30 since the LFE bug was fixed. My first choice was a Denon 2500 but I am sure that I will be just as happy with the Panasonic. My first goal is to save up enough for a new receiver then I will be buying a new BD30 to upgrade my current Sony BDP-S300.