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Christmas Rant - Page 2

post #31 of 43
12/27/07 at 12:55pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
You keep bringing this up, but honestly, I don't really see that "average techno ignorant consumer" caring about the extra stuff that needs >=1.1 profile. They are far more likely to care about playback defects/problems in the traditional movie experience itself, and w/ that, I don't see the HDD side being any better. Most people I know don't even touch the extra features on SD DVDs -- and most of them are not exactly "techno ignorant" either, but just have vastly different priorities than most HT enthusiasts.


When this average user sees a feature on the menu, clicks on it, and nothing happens, or worse yet the player locks up, what do you think is going to happen. They are going to start getting discs returned to the stores as being defective.

And when "average user" is told, its not defective, your player just can't play these features, he is going to be pissed.

Doug
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post #32 of 43
12/27/07 at 1:19pm

Re: Christmas Rant

It'll be interesting to see how much the Profile 1.1 titles coming out in a couple weeks cause that. I suppose the fact that these formats have achieved relatively little penetration works in the companies' favor for that - the best selling BD player (the PS3) is actually upgradeable to use this stuff. It'll also be interesting to see what the lag for the information getting to customer service departments is - if someone brings a copy of Sunshine in and says the PIP commentary didn't work right, Best Buy will probably initially just give him or her a new copy (at which point the process repeats). Then comes the "it only works on newer players" and the "I just bought my Sony player here last week".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
As it is at this point I only buy a blu-ray when I can't get it on HD DVD because I know that everything on the HD DVD is going to work on my 1st gen player. I can't say the same thing of my 1st gen blu-ray player.
Ditto. I don't know if my Samsung BD-P1000 even does TrueHD.
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post #33 of 43
12/27/07 at 2:31pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
It'll be interesting to see how much the Profile 1.1 titles coming out in a couple weeks cause that. I suppose the fact that these formats have achieved relatively little penetration works in the companies' favor for that - the best selling BD player (the PS3) is actually upgradeable to use this stuff. It'll also be interesting to see what the lag for the information getting to customer service departments is - if someone brings a copy of Sunshine in and says the PIP commentary didn't work right, Best Buy will probably initially just give him or her a new copy (at which point the process repeats). Then comes the "it only works on newer players" and the "I just bought my Sony player here last week".


Ditto. I don't know if my Samsung BD-P1000 even does TrueHD.


I also have the bd-p1000, I think it just uses the core Dolby Digital signal when True HD is selected.

And you are probably right, the vast majority of blu-ray players are PS3s so it might not be a huge issue, but I'm willing to be there will be some returns.

Doug
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post #34 of 43
12/27/07 at 6:37pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
When this average user sees a feature on the menu, clicks on it, and nothing happens, or worse yet the player locks up, what do you think is going to happen. They are going to start getting discs returned to the stores as being defective.

And when "average user" is told, its not defective, your player just can't play these features, he is going to be pissed.

Doug

Thing is we're not the "average techno ignorant consumer" though (and that's what I was responding to). I think it's safe enough to say that if you're actually posting here in HTF, you should take more responsibility for your own choices. Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be upset about certain issues that crop up, particularly those that cannot be forseen. But most of this stuff comes w/ the territory though. It's what you get for being an early adopter.

Heck, I could be ranting about the fact my 5-yo HD RPTV can't take full advantage of any of these HD formats (or even upconversion of SD DVDs) because it's only 1080i and only has component inputs, not DVI or HDMI. If I waited just one more year, I wouldn't have had this problem. But I made my choice after doing my homework, and I'm perfectly fine w/ the consequences. Will probably just wait another year or two before I upgrade the display to take full advantage -- and yes, that was more or less part of my plan too.

Yes, I too am not crazy about bleeding edge stuff (even though I'm actually a tech guy in the world of computer software development), and I would not like to own a non-upgradeable, profile 1.0 player either. Heck, forget the profile issue; I don't think I can stand the slow load times and menu navigations and lack of certain basic playback functions (like reverse skip a chapter in the entry level Samsung). But that's precisely why I wouldn't take the plunge on those players -- and have ignored the HD formats for the most part until now. And all the folks I personally know would actually consider me the early adopter, LOL.

But going back to the "average techno ignorant consumer", I suspect if such a person actually bought into BD, he/she probably has plenty of $$$ to spend and can easily shrug it off when a new player is needed. I really can't see any budget conscious person jumping into BD w/out realizing at least some of the risks involved. Heck, there's a format war going on, and that in itself should be enough to scare most such folks away.

_Man_
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post #35 of 43
12/27/07 at 6:59pm

Re: Christmas Rant

FWIW, personally, my main rant is I want this darned format war to be settled asap. To me *that* is what's most annoying about all this.

_Man_
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post #36 of 43
12/28/07 at 11:18am

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Thing is we're not the "average techno ignorant consumer" though (and that's what I was responding to). I think it's safe enough to say that if you're actually posting here in HTF, you should take more responsibility for your own choices. Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be upset about certain issues that crop up, particularly those that cannot be forseen. But most of this stuff comes w/ the territory though. It's what you get for being an early adopter.

Heck, I could be ranting about the fact my 5-yo HD RPTV can't take full advantage of any of these HD formats (or even upconversion of SD DVDs) because it's only 1080i and only has component inputs, not DVI or HDMI. If I waited just one more year, I wouldn't have had this problem. But I made my choice after doing my homework, and I'm perfectly fine w/ the consequences. Will probably just wait another year or two before I upgrade the display to take full advantage -- and yes, that was more or less part of my plan too.

Yes, I too am not crazy about bleeding edge stuff (even though I'm actually a tech guy in the world of computer software development), and I would not like to own a non-upgradeable, profile 1.0 player either. Heck, forget the profile issue; I don't think I can stand the slow load times and menu navigations and lack of certain basic playback functions (like reverse skip a chapter in the entry level Samsung). But that's precisely why I wouldn't take the plunge on those players -- and have ignored the HD formats for the most part until now. And all the folks I personally know would actually consider me the early adopter, LOL.

But going back to the "average techno ignorant consumer", I suspect if such a person actually bought into BD, he/she probably has plenty of $$$ to spend and can easily shrug it off when a new player is needed. I really can't see any budget conscious person jumping into BD w/out realizing at least some of the risks involved. Heck, there's a format war going on, and that in itself should be enough to scare most such folks away.

_Man_

My problem isn't so much that as an early adopter I don't expect there to be issues with the formats. My problem is I have two formats to compare. One, HD DVD, works for all intents and purposes flawlessly (not withstanding the need for a firmware update now and then), The other format, blu-ray, works considerably less than flawlessly. And that has more to do with the fact that format was really not ready to be released when it was than anything else.

My blu-ray player has a very hard time with any blu-ray discs that are authored in the advanced format. Menus on discs such as pirates and cars, while very cool, are slooooooooow. So slow that the game on Cars is unplayable. Trying to bring up the pop up menu during the movie is like watching cement dry.

Now if I had nothing to compare it too, I would probably just chalk it up to the fits and starts of a new format. However when I have a format sitting right next to it that was designed and executed correctly out of the gate, it makes me look a little less favorably on blu-ray. The fact that blu-ray is still having issues like this almost 2 years after being released (I'm not talking just about 1st gen players here), makes me wonder why Sony really doesn't have its act together.

Doug
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post #37 of 43
12/28/07 at 3:03pm

Re: Christmas Rant

I will agree with one thing for certain... The menus for Blu-ray are 100% unforgivable!!
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post #38 of 43
12/29/07 at 4:40pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce


As it is at this point I only buy a blu-ray when I can't get it on HD DVD because I know that everything on the HD DVD is going to work on my 1st gen player. I can't say the same thing of my 1st gen blu-ray player.

Doug

It does? I have an A1 and there is at least one movie I have where the PIP doesn't work: audio only.....no pic.
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post #39 of 43
12/29/07 at 5:01pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
It does? I have an A1 and there is at least one movie I have where the PIP doesn't work: audio only.....no pic.

I guess I've been lucky, but I have had no problems with any features on an HD DVD. I've had no problems with any of the combo discs either. I think in the entire time I've owned the A1 I've had it lock up on me once, and I think that was on an SD DVD.

Doug
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post #40 of 43
12/29/07 at 6:47pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I guess I've been lucky, but I have had no problems with any features on an HD DVD. I've had no problems with any of the combo discs either. I think in the entire time I've owned the A1 I've had it lock up on me once, and I think that was on an SD DVD.

Doug
Same here, Doug. I have the Toshiba HD-A2 and I am simply amazed at the smoothness and reliability of its operation. It plays literally anything I throw at it with aplomb!!! By any measure, The A2 was and is ready for "prime time."

I wish the same thing could be said for the Samsung BDP 1400 that I just bought. Now, don't get me wrong. The PQ and AQ are superb...but smooth, it is not!!! It "clicks" and "whines" as it digests whatever download it needs to get the movie going and I almost literally keep my fingers crossed during this operation as I've experienced several "hic-cups." The player is much more temperamental and requires a lot more patience on my part.

Since upconversion is horrible on the Sammy, my A2 gets the bulk of the work which suits me just fine.
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post #41 of 43
12/31/07 at 1:27pm

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
Same here, Doug. I have the Toshiba HD-A2 and I am simply amazed at the smoothness and reliability of its operation. It plays literally anything I throw at it with aplomb!!! By any measure, The A2 was and is ready for "prime time."

I wish the same thing could be said for the Samsung BDP 1400 that I just bought. Now, don't get me wrong. The PQ and AQ are superb...but smooth, it is not!!! It "clicks" and "whines" as it digests whatever download it needs to get the movie going and I almost literally keep my fingers crossed during this operation as I've experienced several "hic-cups." The player is much more temperamental and requires a lot more patience on my part.

Since upconversion is horrible on the Sammy, my A2 gets the bulk of the work which suits me just fine.


Yeah my A1 is my primary DVD player, mainly because my Samsung doesn't piller box 4x3 SD DVDs. I watch a lot of older films so this is a pretty important feature to me. I'm hoping that the new Samsung combo player will pillerbox SD DVDs but I've been unable to find out if this is the case yet.

Doug
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post #42 of 43
1/16/08 at 8:09am

Re: Christmas Rant

OK, so I have been a blu-ray user for a while now - love the PS3. Anyway there are a few titles that are only available in HD-DVD that I wanted - Transformers, BB, and Serenity - to name a few. So I read and read an decided I would go with the add-on HD-DVD drive for the 360; got it home, hooked it up and threw in KK, WOW really great picture, low audio volume (issue with the drive itself). Then I get BB, yes! WOOT....happy days. Needless to say I was really disappointed. I wanted to do a comparison between the HD and SD version, using the PS3 to play the SD. Well I could see a little better color and clarity in the HD version, but not much over the SD version upconverted on my PS3. Also it was very clitchy, meaning the panning wasn't smooth in places....and same can be said for playing Serenity. Not to mention unable to play in 1080p; so long story short is I took the damn HD-DVD drive back. Now I have three movies I can't watch, but I know BB will be on Blu-ray sometime since WB just went to BD.

My question, finally - is it worth getting an HD-DVD player now? Since WB has gone exclusively BD, and I know Transformers will one day be BD. I'm thinking about the A35, seems like it gets good reviews here. It does 1080p and will pass lossless audio. I've got a 3808ci on it's way to replace my NAD T763 (which I'm sad to have to replace, great receiver). I just don't know if it is really worth the $269 (on Amazon). Help? Advice?

Thanks

Mike
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post #43 of 43
1/17/08 at 11:15am

Re: Christmas Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_J_D
OK, so I have been a blu-ray user for a while now - love the PS3. Anyway there are a few titles that are only available in HD-DVD that I wanted - Transformers, BB, and Serenity - to name a few. So I read and read an decided I would go with the add-on HD-DVD drive for the 360; got it home, hooked it up and threw in KK, WOW really great picture, low audio volume (issue with the drive itself). Then I get BB, yes! WOOT....happy days. Needless to say I was really disappointed. I wanted to do a comparison between the HD and SD version, using the PS3 to play the SD. Well I could see a little better color and clarity in the HD version, but not much over the SD version upconverted on my PS3. Also it was very clitchy, meaning the panning wasn't smooth in places....and same can be said for playing Serenity. Not to mention unable to play in 1080p; so long story short is I took the damn HD-DVD drive back. Now I have three movies I can't watch, but I know BB will be on Blu-ray sometime since WB just went to BD.

My question, finally - is it worth getting an HD-DVD player now? Since WB has gone exclusively BD, and I know Transformers will one day be BD. I'm thinking about the A35, seems like it gets good reviews here. It does 1080p and will pass lossless audio. I've got a 3808ci on it's way to replace my NAD T763 (which I'm sad to have to replace, great receiver). I just don't know if it is really worth the $269 (on Amazon). Help? Advice?

Thanks

Mike
I'd wait myself. You just might get it cheaper in a few months. As to "worth".....of course that's all relative to your needs and pocket book. Certainly, you can buy it and if your not satisfied - take it back for a refund.
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