*** Official SWEENEY TODD: THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET Discussion Thread

I think the days of everyone loathing movie musicals are gone, or at least are on vacation for a while - so long as the material and score are of a certain style.

Hairspray has that nice 60's sound, with enough of a hint of modern pop, and is an overall feel-good enough show that it was a decent hit. It got away being unabashedly a musical without having to make the musical numbers overtly "fantasies" in someone's head.

I can't see Sweeney Todd being a hit or bringing in huge box office, unless the teenage girl contingent just can't get enough of Depp looking all emo goth. It's a dark, violent musical that's rated R. The material certainly doesn't have any of the cheese associated with movie musicals (or what the public that doesn't frequent live theater associates with musicals in general). As I've said before, it's certainly an acquired Sondheim taste.

The musical numbers you can hear on the website don't sound bad, but some of the behind-the-scenes stuff I've seen of Depp in the studio recording the songs seemed kind of lifeless. Leaving me wonder who the music director was giving him some feedback. I'm reminded of one of the extras on the Hairspray Blu-Ray (I guess it's on the DVD too), where Marc Shaiman was telling one of the actors they were being too reticent in the studio and that when it came time to act the scene they'd hate to feel restrained by the track that was recorded in the studio. Perhaps that is the characterization Depp was going for from the beginning, but this seemingly less manic Sweeney is certainly something I'm going to have to see to judge properly. If it's a nice gradual progression from reserved to manic it can work, as I do sometimes feel people that play him start him out far too crazy and insane right at the beginning of the piece.

In any event, we'll see. I'm glad the material is getting the respect it deserves and isn't being toned down for a PG-13 rating. Anyone producing this piece should know what they were getting into from the get-go.

For future Sondheim movies though, maybe the success of "Enchanted" will get someone to do "Into the Woods" next.

Re: "Sweeney Todd" with Tim Burton and Johnny Depp

Sweeney can be sung in many different styles, IMO. In a very disciplined manner or not. If it's not going to be sung in a disciplined or trained voice though, it had better have some really good acting carrying the context of the songs though to make it work.

Alot of this is personal opinion I suppose, because I really have never liked George Hearn in the role, vocally anyway, but many people seem to swear by him.

Depp seems alot closer to Michael Cerveris in style, though Cerveris seems to be more overtly emotional and angry vocally than Depp seems to be. My fear is that, from what I've heard so far, Sweeney just sounds indifferent in Depp's interpretation.

Re: *** Official SWEENEY TODD: THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET Discussion Thread

The basic characterization Carter used is what most people playing the part nowadays go for. Understated, dark, and nefarious when appropriate. I think it has lot to do with the production design (the movie included) many modern productions tend to go with.

I saw the movie last night, and enjoyed it, though I feel it has some problems. As I feared, Depp seemed a little flat in his characterization, only getting really animated during certain killings. I'm guessing that was a deliberate choice, but I felt it sucked alot of energy out of the character.

As I said above, I sort of guessed what Carter's portrayal of Mrs. Lovett was going to be. Even given that though, I felt she didn't milk some of the classic comedic quips the characters gets. I really felt this in "A Little Priest". When performed on stage the two actors have quite a few between-verse asides and little jokes, not to mention I think the song was truncated from the original version. None of those little quips and joking were in the song at all. It just seemed to be another example of how alot of the humor of the piece didn't make it into the film.

As a very macabre film I might say it's brilliant, and seeing an extremely graphic portrayal of the murders (something not usually done on stage) really drives home the psychosis of these characters, but I felt it was missing even the most obvious humor bits that even the darkest and most serious live staging of the piece will retain.

I also felt it odd that "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" was never heard in the film, but musically it was everywhere in the score. If any "overture" piece was ever perfectly written to accompany opening credits than the Ballad was it, a shame it wasn't used, IMO.

Re: *** Official SWEENEY TODD: THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET Discussion Thread

I have to take issue with this quote from the quoted article:


My suggestion was to use it during an opening credit sequence that progressed the story. The thing "holding up the action" at that point is an, IMO, worthless opening credit sequence that is basically just some bad CGI. I often don't mind "segregated" opening credits that are standalone and essentially an overture, but when I feel it could have been used as some productive story-building time I take issue with it.

I also don't feel the differences are really distracting, the film is much more like the musical than it is different. In fact, one change I do like is the moving of the second act "Joanna" so that it happens before "God, that's Good." It works in either order. I mainly just don't like the exclusion of pretty much any bit of humor from the piece outside of the Perelli character. I could sense the tone and mood really wearing down the audience I was seeing it with by the time it came time for the Judge's return.

Re: *** Official SWEENEY TODD: THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET Discussion Thread

Well, "God, That's Good" was there, in the form it was morphed into anyway. I didn't really have any issue with it. As a matter of fact, since we see him building the chair and using it and the Act 2 Johanna was moved to be before "God, That's Good," the last half of the song wouldn't make any sense logistically since it is them testing the chair and chute.

After reading parts of the article that Michael posted I can see how the cuts were made - since they basically were designing it so that only the principles ever did any singing. That explains certain decisions, though I'll argue whether that angle was even necessary to take. Ask me a year or two years ago and I'd say, yeah, do something to make it "less musical" to make it appeal to people better, but I think audiences have once again grown somewhat accustomed to musical conventions and wouldn't have begrudged the film a chorus.

Re: *** Official SWEENEY TODD: THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET Discussion Thread

Of course, that is somewhat the point of that number. Here's Sweeney singing about wanting and loving the daughter he lost while he mindlessly does these acts that take him further and further away from the man he was, and the man that Johanna could possibly have any memory of.

Michael's post is spot on with regard to the violence. I may complain about the graphicness of the violence, but I also completely despise the current trend of slashers and cannot bring myself to watch torture porn, so I'm far from one of these movie goers that is desensitized to film violence and need it amped up to a certain level to be effective.


Then, of course, a fourth murder SHOULD have been very personal to Sweeney, but that's the one that completes the tragedy of the story.