Lost: Season Four - Page 46

^^^

Yeah, I saw that title (There's No Place Like Home) when I was fishing through the season four discs yesterday.  I had forgotten how short this season was.  On the up side, there is a neat booklet (assuming one has the required sense of humor ) included with the season.

I'd like to reiterate how much I appreciate Michael Emerson's acting.  Goodness, I'd be hard pressed to find an actor with more range in Lost than he.  I know that the man who plays Richard has received a lot of accollades in the other thread, but Emerson is the man for me right now.  In the episode I saw last night, in which he first meets Juliet, I saw some interesting nuances right from the get-go.  At first, I was turned off by what I saw, but then I let it play out, and realized that what I saw was in the script as opposed to a slip-up (as in being out of character and off the page) on his part.  It was a wonderful segment when he first laid eyes on Juliet.

You're in for a treat as you catch up with the episodes you haven't seen.  His Emmy in 2009 was well-deserved.

Josh,

Thanks.  I'm going through season four quite fast (eight episodes in about three nights).  I almost asked if he had won an Emmy (didn't Locke win one for Lost?)

We watched The Other Woman again tonight.  I learned a few things that escaped me the first time.  First, during the scene where Kate is found by Jack and Juliet (this is after Charlotte has conked her on the head and taken off with Farraday), the Dies irae is heard.  The first eight notes are there, and it's unmistakable.  I do know that Giacchino hints at it elsewhere (at least earlier) in the series by giving us only fragments of the (instrumentalized) chant; however, here the first 'phrase' is heard in its entirety, note-for-note.  Unlike his use of "Life and Death" at opportune times, I wasn't certain why the Dies irae was used at this point.  But I'm sure there was a reason other than musical.

Later, when Ben shows Juliet Goodwin's dead body, I almost thought I saw a hint of schizophrenia in Ben.  He came very close to acting as though he had more than one personality, too -- but he probably only momentarily lost control given what he and Juliet were discussing.  {How I'd love to know who Harper was referring to earlier in the episode when she said that Juliet 'looks like her' (or words to that effect)}.  My daughter thought of Annie, and I thought of a girlfriend or wife.  I hope I find this out one day.

Some conjecture on my part: Back in season two, when Ben is (I think) talking to Locke about who the 'bad guys' really are, he mentions how Jack's group has killed one (I assume Ethan), and they (the Others) have killed one (perhaps Scott or Steve?)  At the time, I remember thinking that Ben's math didn't sound quite right.  But tonight, I may have understood what Ben was getting at -- that possibly Goodwin was purposely omitted from that season two discussion because Ben, and not Jack's group, was ultimately responsible for sending him to his death.  That made a bit more sense to me, since saying that the Others killed two would not have been advantageous to Ben in that situation.

That's Kate's theme (she doesn't really have any leitmotifs that I can remember).  It's was established back from in season one, and appears on the OST as "Kate's Motel."  It's a musical homage to one of Giacchino's influences, Bernard Herrmann, who himself was influenced by Dies Irae.

I don't believe that tie to the hymn has any real connection with the story itself, as Giacchino wasn't part of the "inner circle" with regards to the story arcs at the time (season one).  Unlike, say, Bear McCreary (my favourite soundtrack composer at the moment) on BSG , Caprica, and Human Target, who is intimately involved with the actual crafting of the narrative.

Josh,

Hey, thanks for that information.  I was pretty certain that I had heard it in its entirety (well, at least the eight-note phrase) before.  Most films that I have heard that use it don't use the entire chant.  The original Jason and the Argonauts goes pretty far with it, as does The Screaming Skull.

BTW, I don't know if you've seen any of my posts on film composers, but Bernard Herrmann is my all-time favorite.  His scores for Psycho, Fahrenheit 451 (you know you love 7/4), The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Vertigo are among my favorites.  But there are so many more.  His studies with Percy Grainger were discussed in some of my graduate courses, one of which was taught by a professor who knew Bernard Herrmann at some length.

Travis,

The reason I dismissed Annie as a possibility regarding Harper's words was because I think she was a brunette.  (BTW, speaking of comic books and possible spinoffs, every time I see the series Flash Forward, I can't help but think of Lost.)

Scott, are you watching Battlestar?  I don't recall seeing you in any of the season threads.  If you ever decide to give it a shot, Bear McCreary has a blog about his work on the show (as well as his other shows, such as Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Trauma, Human Target, and Caprica).  His music was so popular that it went out on tour--pretty amazing for a show on the Scfi channel.

Josh,

No, not yet.  That's another series that I really have to watch one day.  My eldest son has purchased the first season for himself, but I have yet to catch an episode.  He is also a huge Buffy fan, which is a series I have yet to see (except for an episode here and there).

We watched two more episodes last night: Meet Kevin Johnson and The Shape of Things to Come.  What a bummer to see the deaths of Carl, Danielle, and Alex.  I had no idea it was coming, especially Alex.  Major bummer.  Anyway, my wife informs me that we will see Alex (or rather, 'sinister Alex') later in the series, thanks to the MiB.  How I wish that Ben had unleashed Smokie before he stated that they had changed the rules.  Of course, he had no reason to do that before Alex's death.

We're almost through with Season Four, having watched Something Nice Back Home and Cabin Fever recently.

I loved the opening to Cabin Fever.  That was very nice to hear a tune by Buddy Holley (on a 45).  Emily has very good taste.   Thanks go to whomever was responsible for that little touch.

I'm really starting to hope that Keamy meets an untimely (er, accidental) death soon.

We concluded season four last night, viewing There's No Place Like Home (pts. 1 and 2).  Since I didn't look ahead, it was a nice surprise finding out who Jeremy Benthem was.  I thought it was going to be Jin.

Travis,

Yeah, that was a wonderful moment.  When he put on the Dharma Initiative coat, and then when I saw where he went, the polar bear made a lot more sense to me -- it looked quite cold there for a moment.  I think he ends up in the desert wearing that coat!

I had to look ahead to see the fate of Jin.  Goodness, if this show hadn't already made the transition to sci-fi (and coupled with what I read of what occurs with Jin), it most certainly did during the season four closing episodes.

This was my initial reaction to the finale. But as noted later in the thread, it has since grown on me A LOT, and I've watched it countless times since. LOST finales tend to do that actually, and that's the mark of a great work.

Beside the obvious stuff like moving the Island, one of my favorite smaller moments is early in the episode after Kate and Sayid help free Ben from Keamy and his squad and Ben tells them they are free to take the chopper and leave the Island. An incredulous Kate asks "We can leave? that's it?" -- Ben: "That's it."

Something about that scene gets me every time.

--
H

I was also quite moved when Ben, in response to Locke's plea for the lives of those on the freighter, simply said "So?"  Wow.  I figured that Ben had a way of resetting time (in a way other than TBCRB, hopefully) that would ensure the safety of those on the ship.  But maybe I was wrong about that.

Don't do that! You're ruining it for yourself, man.

Arild,

Hmmm.  I have several children who really wanted to know if he was alive or dead.  My girls really wanted to know his fate.  Jin is one of their most favorite characters.  I'll try to be good from now on. :)

Like Scott, I'm coming to this show very late in the game so I'm basically left in a 'read only' mode when I finish these seasons , which has been at a very brisk clip. Like I did with S3. after I finished I searched out the week to week thread here and relived the seasons twists and turns through everybody's posts. After working through this thread I just had to comment on how wonderful much of the commentary here is. You folks deserve a big pat on the back for producing so much  intelligent and stimulating reading. But I guess that's testament to the show itself.

 

After years of having to suffer through people going on and on about how great this thing is, now that I'm watching it I'm finding it's even better than they said it was. My gold standard up till now had probably been Battlestar Galactica, and at this point last year I was waiting on the complete set to be released to finally see the final last half season. I didn't think there was anyway those last eps could let me down, based on just how good the rest of the series had been- but I was sooooo wrong. While I was just as riveted as the last eps played out, and  (somewhat) emotionally satisfied by the ultimate closure, I was hugely disappointed by the sense that Moore never did have a real compelling masterplan in place. And it seems that most people that have watched 'The Plan' seem to have come to that conclusion also. Getting the complete series set prior to seeing the last eps was about as big a no-brainer as any dvd (or in this case Bd) set I've ever bought. But after finding out how it ended- and more specifically the way it all ended, I've replayed the series in my head and the thought of revisiting  hours and hours of teases, conflicts, premonitions,  and revelations that ultimately mean so little or go nowhere interesting, I now, sadly,  have very little enthusiasm for making my way through those 4 short seasons  again. I can't believe I just typed that knowing how amazing I thought the show was for so long, but that's the way I feel now. The complete set seems like an albatross on my shelf now. I hope some day I can revisit it and recapture a little of my previous appreciation, but I know  it won't be anytime soon.

 

I say all this because after four seasons of Lost (and I'm pretty sure significantly more total hours), my enthusiasm hasn't flagged a bit. If anything it has increased with each season. And here's the rub- it's maintained my interest while at the same time frequently satisfying a need for some kind of closure or at least an intermittent payoff.  I can't wait to see how the Ben vs Widmore(sp?) conflict ultimately plays out, with the Oceanic survivors in the middle, but in the meantime the show hasn't just been one long big tease.

Or has it?

You guys have been watching it and it's just about to finally wrap up- and I'm very curious to know -without getting into any specifics, how satisfied are you with were the show ultimately went, and how it got there?

 

Going back through these threads, this one post by Josh, summed up perfectly the many things I've been marveling at as I've watched the last couple seasons.

 

 

 

For me, at least at this point, Josh's suggestion to go back and re-watch the previous seasons doesn't seem off-putting at all. Even though I just started watching it back in late March I'm going to go through a serious withdrawl when I finish S5- which based on how fast I polished of 4, should be done by Monday morning. I've tried to pace myself with this so I wouldn't burn out, but it's impossible. Amazing stuff.

Edited by Paul_Scott - 5/14/10 at 7:04pm

I have been rewatching the show as I have watched Season 6 and I have found the show immensely satisfying the second time round knowing what I do now. Season 5 especially is fascinating for how they weave in aspects of the show from previous years (trying not to give too much away) and as the show comes to an end and answers are given to various aspects of the show, I have been more than happy so far ( have just reached the last episode of Season 5)

 

I would say most people were very satisfied with the direction of the show in Season 5 but I get the impression that Season 6 seems to have divided opinion more though so far I have loved it. Much depends on the last few hours though so we will see what happens.

 

uh-oh

That response is reminding me a little too much of what I was reading as BSG was wrapping up.

I chalked it up then to some cranks not being satisfied unless they were contrary- until I saw for myself what the grievances were and sympathized with them.

Last night I plowed through the first 8 eps in S5, and I'm sure tonight I'll finish it. Last one I watched last night was LaFleur. One thing that struck me just recently is how unabashedly romantic this show is. Never really realized it before. The Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle was obvious- but there are so many other couples on the periphery, and characters yearning for ties with other characters. The characters that are not motivated by love or yearning are in the distinct minority. The show is extremely 'soap opera' with the sci-fi adventure sheen masking it. I don't consider that necessarily bad at all, just a bit surprising to finally realize it after all this time.

 

Also, another aspect of the show that makes it seem less daunting to revisit sooner rather than later is the amount of humor in it. And for a show with what I would consider a lot of thriller aspects to it, quite a bit of the humor is of a lighter, warmer nature. It would be easy to suffuse this material with a lot of cynical gallows humor, but much of it comes across as  lightly comedic in tone and timing. The tonal balance they manage to strike week in and week out is quite impressive to me.

As someone who is at the end of the show

with most everyone else, you can rest assured

that many of the questions brought up throughout

the seasons do get answered.

 

However, with just three shows to go, there

are still a handful of questions that are still

unresolved that we hope will be.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, guys.

As I expected I polished off Season 5 in the last two days and all I can think of is- "wow, what a difference a season makes." I may post some more season specific comments in that season's thread, but in general terms I'm not really digging the direction they are taking things now.

Maybe after it all plays out, the structure will feel more cohesive, but it just seems to be real late in the game for some of the big things they are introducing.

Paul,

 

What concerns you about the direction they 

are taking?  Perhaps we can assure you it will

get better or worse.

 

Man, wish there was a way you could catch

up on Season 6.  Actually, there is.  You can

watch all the shows online at the ABC site.

 

Maybe get yourself prepared for the finale.

I believe you can also buy them in HD from iTunes as well, if you want more permanent copies.

Hey guys,

just mainlined the first 15 eps of S6 via Hulu. Still trying to process it- some, maybe most, of my concerns have receded- but that may only be because I'm still swept up in the forward thrust of these last shows. Guess I'll see you  in the S6 thread from now on.

 

Travis, concern for people randomly slipping spoilers in other threads over the course of the next three months was definitely a part of my motivation- but I think the primary one was my envy at the great give and take I've seen only in retrospect in these threads. It will be nice to be able to experience some real time discussion for a change.

 

cheers

Paul,

 

You just watched the first 15 episodes of S6 LOST?!

 

Oh my God!

 

So you are now up-to-date with all of us?
 

What do you think?
 

This is great.  You are ready for a new episode

tonight and the finale on Sunday.

 

Yeah. I'm in the middle of some down time right now, so I can devote time to watching a dozen eps back to back.
I watched the first ten,  got some sleep and then finished the rest.
It didn't seem hard going at the time (this show is like crack), but I'm definitely feeling real strung out right now.

 

 

 

Yup. Up to date and posting in the S6 thread.

What do I think? On a certain level the show is beyond criticism because it has accomplished the primary goal of spinning a yarn that is entertaining  and keeps me eagerly asking, no matter what goes on, "so what happens next?"

The forward momentum is so strong right now, even with the big mythology backstory ep, that I'm willing to go with the flow for the moment and not get too hung up (like I was starting to get) on certain aspects and wait till all the dust settles before I get out my pitchfork.