Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows? - Page 3

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

If Legend is so interested in preserving classics through colorization, why don't they make a DVD player that automatically colorizes all black and white material. That way true fans can have the original material and casuals can have something that will automatically modernize these programs, making them hip and "with it." Perhaps it could have some sort of automatic sensor to delete any un pc scenes, maybe a smoke detector to remove all of the cigarette smoking?

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

My original comment may have been misunderstood. I'm not FOR colorization of TV shows, but if it were to mean release or no release of one of my favorites, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

We don't know how many producers would have loved to have their shows filmed in color but were denied the process due to cost. Before 1966 virtually all sitcoms were black and white, and not due to choice.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Just like the above, I am willing to tollerate colorization it if it gets black and white shows released.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

I'm generally opposed to colorization of anything that was originally produced in B/W although I admire Sony for offering both sets of BW & IDOJ for those to choose which release thwy want to buy. Obviously, I bought the B/W sets for both

David L brought up an interesting point about the sales #'s of the color sets vs B/W for those 2 shows. I'd hoped that the B/W #'s would have been higher. Maybe the #'s indicated that there just weren't a lot of the 'Boomers that bought these sets, but rather, the later generations that first discovered these shows in syndication. I'd have bet almost anything that nearly all of the 'Boomer buyers would have bought the B/W sets.

The main reason that I support B/W releases for those shows that were originally produced that way is that's the way I first viewed them. The other reason is the same as many have posted here; that's the way they were made to begin with so, as we say in Texas, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

That said, Elena and others bring up a good point for thought: If the studios were to "draw a line in the sand" and say (regarding future B/W shows) "It's colorization or nothing", how many here would hold the line and not buy a "Grail" release on their list? How's this for a hard decision? What if Paramout had released "The Fugitive" S1V1 colorized with no B/W set as an option? Man, that would be a tough decision for me. Viewing this show on DVD for the first time, I can't imagine looking at the scenes from "Fear in a Desert City": At the Greyhound Bus Sta or...from "See Hollywood & Die"....the scene at the housing contruction site with the city lights in the background against that pure black night sky.... as colorized shows. "Just doesn't work for me".

Let's hope we never have to make choices like that.

Final editorial : For those that couldn't find the BW & IDOJ B/W sets at their local stores, why not go 'net? They're always available at the online stores right to your door and in most cases, less expensive (except for the Walmart bins, etc) than local stores. This DVD 'net buying's the greatest thing since the last Cowboys Super Bowl win

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

The B&W sets of Bewitched were extremely hard to find in the B&M stores, which may have had something to do with those sales numbers. Whether the B&W sets would have actually outsold the color sets had the playing field been more level is uncertain and, truth be told, doubtful.

The packages were not labeled as "Colorized," they were labeled as "In Color!" so the average consumer who was not well versed in the history of the show may not have even realized it was altered or that there was a choice.

Even if they did realize there was a difference, I suspect the average buyer--not the purist/enthusiast but the average buyer--would probably still have chosen the colorized version. Joe Six Pack (J6P is probably not the target demographic for Bewitched, but that's beside the point) likes his color tv programming.

Happily, for fans of the show and of B&W programming, the unaltered versions of Bewitched, at least, are also available so our delicate eyes needn't be offended.

Unhappily for Sony, the difficulty of finding a B&W copy of Bewitched in a B&M store when I was in an impulse buying mood has prevented me from ever purchasing a copy. Yes, I'm aware that I could easily buy it online but when I have to stop and think about buying something online, my better judgment will usually kick in and I'll click on over to Netflix to rent it instead.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Brian,

Good points about the B&M buyer. I rarely am in that category so it's easy for me to overlook that thought.

The Netflix thing is something that makes a lot of sense for a lot of DVD'ers out there but for me it's not the right choice, at least not enough to sign up at Netflix since, as I understand it, there's a monthly fee regardless if the customer rents something in a given month. For me, with all of the un-watched series on the shelf, I passed on joining Netflix. It there wasn't a monthly fee, I'd most likely rent some sets to check them out before buying for the collection.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

That's what I was saying.

I think the whole discussion is somewhat moot because if a studio isn't releasing a show because they don't think it'll sell, why would they spend even more money on colorizing something that they see as having little or no value?

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Speaking only for myself, I beleived there would be ample BW and Jeannie at the stores in Black and White. But when it turned out not to be I didn't want to wait since the color version was staring me in the face. I was more geared to brick and morter places to get DVD's back then.

I told myself I would pick up the Black and White versions later but still haven't (I still intend to).

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

I recall that time when BEWITCHED, SEASON ONE hit the shelves. At the time, I was eager to get my hands on it (the black & white of course). That Tuesday, whenever it was, First stop was the Target store on the way to work. They only had the colorized version. I held the set in my hand and equivocated for awhile - "Should I, or shouldn't I? It is just a TV series, and they don't have the black & white." I put it back on the shelf and walked out of the store, deciding to do a more thorough shopping expedition at lunchtime.

I thought about online ordering during my work morning, but somehow just wanted it then and there. So at lunch I headed out to a local Borders. Surely Borders would stock the black & white version I thought. But when I got there I was dismayed to again find only colorized versions.

Next stop was a local Sam Goody store (still in business at the time). No luck. Only colorized versions. A pattern had developed. Still resisting the urge to just throw my hands up and get the colorized version, I continued on to one last stop. There was a Blockbuster in the same shopping center as the Sam Goody store, and though I'd never been inside it, I gave it one last chance before heading back to work and ordering the thing online.

There it was, locked up in the TV set case, the black & white BEWITCHED, SEASON ONE. I found a clerk and ponied up the extra bucks - yes, I payed MORE than I should have for a black & white version, just because Blockbuster was the only store at which I could find it.

Bottom line is that most people wouldn't go through what I did. If they even heard about BEWITCHED being released and shopped for it, they'd only find the colorized version - it was basically all that the stores stocked, so of course it sold better than the black & white to all of those impulse buyers out there who saw it on the shelves.

I'm not deluding myself into thinking that had there been a fair chance with equal distribution and display that people would have flocked to the original black & white. I work in radio and we have a saying, "The masses are a$$es." I understand that Jane Sixpack out there couldn't care less whether BEWITCHED, SEASON ONE was colorized, in color originally, panned & scanned, falsely made into 16:9, or had Elizabeth Montgomery's voice redubbed by Paris Hilton. Bottom line for her is that if she wanted BEWITCHED for the family, she bought whatever was on the shelf.

I too aplaud Sony for making both available - I just wished they had been a bit more upfront about labeling the sets as "In Color!" when the were colorized.

For some reason, even though I found the black & white set, I was somehow soured on the whole notion and never picked up any further BEWITCHED sets, making it the first series that I abandoned rather than a studio.

Harry

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

You can tell if you pay attention to the details. One example: The episode where Samantha got covered with what they called big green spots. The spots were black -- they figured, since it was black and white, why bother to paint them green. Well, colorization shows them to be black, while everyone's going around saying, "Oh, look at those awful green spots." It's just plain dumb, as is colorization generally.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

This came up in the BW thread at the time: sorry, but the spots are most definitely green on my dvds & TV. Dark (forest) green, but definitely green, not black.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

I just watched a couple of clips from the colorized Betwiched...and...well...it looks terrible. You can totally tell that it is colorized. Everything just looks flat. Glad I bought the original B&W versions.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

It looks great in color to me.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

I love It's a Wonderful Life...being in B&W makes it feel even more heartfelt and nostalgic so to speak.

Tonight though I saw the new colorized version being played on several LCD TV's at Wal MArt, and I must say, they did a damn fine job making it look as if it was originally filmed that way..it was cool seeing the colored Xmas lights and the liveliness of the bar scene etc...I must say I was impressed...WAY moreso than the old days when companies tried to colorize old movies..THAT was horrible stuff.

For fun I'd like to sit through both version once this season just to experience the movie in a new light so to speak.

I know there are purists who HATE what has been done, but I'm not that diehard and am willling to see the show in both forms.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Me too, Elena. But what's weird is that, for as good as they look on DVD and when I saw them broadcast, they look terrible in the promos they put on the DVDs. It makes the colorization look like that old 1980's crap. Expecially the clips of Jeannie.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Perfectly said. It would take far more than color to get younger consumers to have any interest in any of the series from the 50s or 60s. The same things that make many of us love these shows are the same exact things that would turn off younger viewers. And I'm sorry but to me television lost a great deal when color came in. Maybe it was just a general shift in the writing and the types of series being produced but to me at least the classic era for TV was 1960-65 and it has never been as great again. After that, TV stopped doing character studies and stories about social issues. It became all cops and detectives for the most part.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

I rented the 1st 3 discs of Jeannie Season one in color and then stopped as well as the 1st disc of Bewitched. Although they do look better than the 80's colorized films something still looks off in them with the change in Contrast and flesh tones still tend to have that pastel crayon look. Overall they still look awful to me and I'm glad I then purchased the B & W versions.

I wonder if some would feel the same way about music. Many parents that do not allow their kids/teenagers to listen to music with explicit lyrics would if they altered those lyrics and replaced them with different words. There are some songs that have had this done to them on Disney Radio for example. So by the same logic they would sell more CD's if they did this altering to music. So would those that think colorization to B & W films is fine and will increase sales also be fine with altering lyrics in music to "increase" sales. If not then some have a double standard and are not seeing the point of why it is wrong to colorize.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Last night we opted to look at the colorized version of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE from the two-disc set that's out there now.

The first comment from my wife was, "Why is the bell yellow?"

And I had to admit, the bell in the Liberty Films logo DID look yellow - not gold or bronze or a natural color, but a pastel yellow.

As the film ran, I could admire the job done by the colorizors, but as mentioned above, it didn't look natural. It didn't look like a piece of color film. It looked like a colorization job, and continually took me out of the picture. I won't be opting for that version ever again, and will stick with the black & white, the way God, Frank Capra, and Liberty Films intended. Thankfully that version is included too, and looks much better.

I mention this film since it's highly touted as a great example of good colorization. That may be so, but it's still a long way from looking natural or normal.

I say if people don't want to watch black & white, then so be it. Let them be the losers of the experience.

Harry

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

It's interesting to me that people (in general) have such an aversion to black and white. There's a sense of entitlement involved in this issue that disturbs me. Sometimes we need to step away from the comfortable and the familiar. Expand the mind on occasion. It's not so terribly scary, and sometimes provides rich rewards.

It's my feeling that once the age of CGI and shaky camerawork becomes stale.....well, it already has.....that someone is going to try something "new and innovative" such as a TV series shot in black and white and it will be treated like a cutting edge technique and be showered with praise and Emmy nods.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Harry,

Great example & analogy with "It's a Wonderful Life". All I can say, from Texas, is (regarding original B/W shows & films)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Mark,

I'm laughing with you, not at your post

Perfectly stated.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Sadly, this is already being done. Many explicit albums are edited so that Wal-Mart will sell them. It's odd that Wal-Mart will sell R-Rated or Unrated DVD's yet draws the line at music that contains the F-word.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

How about colorization of b/w videotaped shows, is that possible? I would imagine it'd have to be copied and transferred to film first?

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

Since the process is done digitally and not photochemically, I doubt they would have to transfer video to film in order to bastardize...er, I mean colorize it. If anything, it would require a digitizing of the analog video source.

Re: Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows?

As long as the originals are available I don't see the harm.

I would love to see the first 2 season of "The Adventures of Superman" colorized. Superman originated in the colorful medium of comic books. Any Tv series were the Producers changed over into color is fair game. Clearly they thought something was lacking or they never would have made the expensive shift to color.

Maybe if the show is ever released in Blue Ray or HD-DVD. If not the whole series a few samples like with the Lucy dream sequence. The Origin of Superman in the first episode "Superman of Earth" and the classic "Panic in the Sky" would be perfect candidates.