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Ironside SEASON 3 - Page 2

post #31 of 109
12/12/08 at 5:26am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

It's also important to recognize the fact that there is a huge amount of TV-on-DVD available and a limited amount of shelf space at brick & mortar stores. Unfortunately, vintage shows tend to suffer more when it comes to getting some of this space, unless the show is released by one of the majors like CBS Paramount, Sony or Fox which are also releasing contemporary shows like "NCIS" and "24," where sales of those shows are typically much greater than most vintage series and can easily command the attention of brick & mortar retailers. Independents, like Shout! Factory, have a much more difficult time getting their product on the shelves. I know of at least one instance, S'more Entertainment's release of "Make Room for Daddy" - season 6, where one of the major book retail chains simply refused to carry it because of shelf space issues.

I have to believe that a company like Shout! Factory is doing its best to get its DVD releases on the shelves of brick & mortar stores (I've seen season 1 of the vintage family comedy "Father Knows Best" at both Target and Best Buy), but if a retailer turns around and effectively says "no room at the inn," there's not too much recourse for the independent releasing company other than sell it throught other channels, be it through online retailers or direct mail where shelf space isn't an issue.
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post #32 of 109
12/12/08 at 7:28am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Well said Bob. Definitely spot on. I'd buy Season 3 of this show if it were released here in the States, but I'm not boycotting Shout over this. Heck, they are about the best group going right now in my book!

Gary "trust me, I know how frustrating it is to have a favorite series stalled ('Leave it to Beaver', 'Have Gun, Will Travel, 'Quincy') or mutilated ('Fugitive', 'My 3 Sons'), but in this instance I really do believe Shout is doing the best they can" O.
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post #33 of 109
12/12/08 at 7:58am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

[quote=Gary OS]Heck, they are about the best group going right now in my book!QUOTE]

Amen to that. Between Ironside and their solid job on Mystery Science Theater 3000, they're one of the best around.
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post #34 of 109
12/12/08 at 9:07am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hug
It's also important to recognize the fact that there is a huge amount of TV-on-DVD available and a limited amount of shelf space at brick & mortar stores. Unfortunately, vintage shows tend to suffer more when it comes to getting some of this space, unless the show is released by one of the majors like CBS Paramount, Sony or Fox which are also releasing contemporary shows like "NCIS" and "24," where sales of those shows are typically much greater than most vintage series and can easily command the attention of brick & mortar retailers. Independents, like Shout! Factory, have a much more difficult time getting their product on the shelves. I know of at least one instance, S'more Entertainment's release of "Make Room for Daddy" - season 6, where one of the major book retail chains simply refused to carry it because of shelf space issues.

I have to believe that a company like Shout! Factory is doing its best to get its DVD releases on the shelves of brick & mortar stores (I've seen season 1 of the vintage family comedy "Father Knows Best" at both Target and Best Buy), but if a retailer turns around and effectively says "no room at the inn," there's not too much recourse for the independent releasing company other than sell it throught other channels, be it through online retailers or direct mail where shelf space isn't an issue.


Hmmm maybe , Ironside's core audience doesnt do the internet well so limited brick and morter presents=bad sales. I went to 3 targets, 3 walmarts, 3 different best buys and called atleast 3 curcuit citys and a few dvd speciality shops and none had Ionside s1. Im glad some people had luck in finding the season sets but I know a lot of people couldnt find it no matter how hard they tried. So fan support is not the issue availablity is , Unless it a set like mchales navy which everyone supposedly loves you can not find shout sets at most retailers, sorry but that my experance here in So Califorina.
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post #35 of 109
12/12/08 at 9:31am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

I rarely buy DVDs at brick and mortar stores. They are almost always cheaper at Deep Discount or Amazon. So I will buy them online. And I am 55.
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post #36 of 109
12/12/08 at 9:52am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Ironside is a show that I've been considering buying for a while, but haven't yet. While I do recall it from childhood, I remember very little about the show, so it would be practically a blind buy. It seems like something that I would enjoy as an adult, but I'm awash in unwatched TV on DVD sets as it is. I wonder how much of that glut dragged down sales?
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post #37 of 109
12/12/08 at 1:44pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

I suspect Ironside's audience makes up a large percentage of the audience for other 60s shows which also don't get a lot of shelf space but haven't been cancelled after two seasons. History has shown that if fans want a show, they will find a way to buy it. I'm grateful to Shout for giving Ironside its chance, and particularly grateful to them for a second season and an explanation. They are one of the top company's out there, and most people in the industry will echo that sentiment.
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post #38 of 109
12/12/08 at 1:46pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

As disappointed as I am that IRONSIDE has stalled, I agree that the consumer abandoned this series, not SHOUT. I think SHOUT did a great job with the two seasons they put out; this show apparently just didn't find its audience. Hopefully the situation changes, but absent a big uptick in sales I don't expect it.

Blaming SHOUT for retail distribution problems is unfair also. The retailers are the ones who decide what to stock, not the studios. There is a tremendous glut of product out there right now and only so much shelf space to go around.
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post #39 of 109
12/18/08 at 11:47pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Foulard
I've just ordered this from DevotedDVD (I've used them before successfully) and it came to about $29 in US dollars. Their shipping is pretty low--I checked it against a bunch of other Aussie vendors, and it was one of the cheapest.


Hey Guy thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much for the tip , I just got my confirmation email from devoted dvd my Ironside s3 set on the way for a price that would be about the same if I got it a Walmart . What so bizarre about this topic is the same of folks who savaged cbs on the fugitive (and savage every other cbs release regardless if be tampered with or not Five-0) are so tolerant of Shout abandonment of Ironside? Especially with shouts crappy track record of series competiton ....... Oh well But thanks again Guy for the tip I have fun watching season 3 hopefully season four will follow soon. And no more of my $$$$$$ to Shout bye bye.
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post #40 of 109
12/19/08 at 1:46am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Comparing what CBS did to the FUGITIVE to Shout! abandoning a series that they did a great job releasing unaltered is absurd. Shout! has a record of listening to customers and improving marketable product (i.e. complete episodes of season two of FATHER KNOWS BEST after fans expressed displeasure at syndie eps in season one). Shout! maintains a dialogue with its fan base and gives believable explanations (i.e Ironside didn't sell and we're not going to put out a product that loses money). To even mention Shout! in the same sentence with CBS/Paramount, is, in my opinion, and insult to the good folks at Shout.
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post #41 of 109
12/19/08 at 4:17am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Here's some indication that sales of Ironside were not what was expected by Shout! The 2-disc version of season 1 can be had for about eight bucks from two online book retailers specializing in remainders and closeouts.

Daedalus Books Online - Ironside

HamiltonBook.com - New Books at Bargain Prices! - IRONSIDE, VOLUME 1: Season 1.
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post #42 of 109
12/19/08 at 1:28pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Season One got both a full season release and split season sets?! Wow. Looks to me like Shout went above and beyond the call of duty trying to make these episodes available at different price points--and then they do a second season release despite poor sales on season one? That's amazing. I can understand someone being disappointed that the series isn't getting anymore releases as of now, but I don't see how anyone can justify, especially in the face of those split season sets, a position that Shout! gave up on the show without doing everything it could. Instead of being angry at Shout, after learning of those split season sets, I'm inclined to be even more grateful for their efforts.
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post #43 of 109
12/19/08 at 1:42pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Season One got both a full season release and split season sets?! Wow. Looks to me like Shout went above and beyond the call of duty trying to make these episodes available at different price points--and then they do a second season release despite poor sales on season one? That's amazing. I can understand someone being disappointed that the series isn't getting anymore releases as of now, but I don't see how anyone can justify, especially in the face of those split season sets, a position that Shout! gave up on the show without doing everything it could. Instead of being angry at Shout, after learning of those split season sets, I'm inclined to be even more grateful for their efforts.

David, they weren't quite split season sets . . . just the pilot plus six episodes. There was never a season 1, volume 2 release of "Ironside," but there was a similar release of season 2, volume 1. I suspect it may have had to do with shelf space considerations because I only saw the season 1, volume 1 release at my local Walmart . . . they never carried the full season . . . . I believe that Shout! was trying to find a way to meet the needs of Walmart with this abbreviated release.

Here's what Shout! Factory ended up releasing . . .

Shout! Factory - Ironside
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post #44 of 109
12/19/08 at 3:27pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Thanks for clarifying my misunderstanding. Still, I think it's fair to say Shout's intent was basically the same as doing split seasons. As a fan of Ironside, it's nice to know Shout! did everything they realistically could for season one to find an audience, and then gave it a full second season release DESPITE low first season numbers.
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post #45 of 109
12/19/08 at 4:01pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Don't blame Shout! if you couldn't find their releases at B&M stores. Blame the retailers.

I'm 100% positive that Shout! and their distributors did everything they could to place as much product as possible at retail, but the retailers are just not carrying nearly the quantity of DVDs that they did a short time ago. And they won't even consider properties if they don't believe they will make their required weekly numbers - which get more outrageous by the day.

It started with Musicland closing, then you had Suncoast closing most of their locations, Target never carried much that isn't directly from a "major", Wal-Mart has cut down their number of SKUs drastically the last few years and are quick to return things almost immediately if they don't prosper. Then add Circuit City closing so many of their stores, and now the reports that Best Buy's 3rd quarter earnings were down 77% from last year and you can see where the mess is. Hopefully when the economy turns around, things will start to push back more to the way they were even 2-3 years ago.

People are going to have to get used to shopping online for almost anything that isn't a blockbuster or recent hit TV show. It's too bad, but it's the market and the smaller studios (and now even the bigger ones) aren't calling the shots.
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post #46 of 109
12/19/08 at 5:42pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

The other thing to consider is how much Universal charged to license Ironside to Shout in the first place. If it was high, then Ironside would've had to do extremely well to turn a profit for Shout.

It's interesting to compare that to the Universal/Timeless relationship. What made Laredo work for Timeless, and not Ironside for Shout? Did Laredo really sell a whole lot better? Or did Timeless negotiate a better deal, or were Timeless' expectations more realistic? Or maybe Laredo (and now Wagon Train?) isn't selling so well either....
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post #47 of 109
12/19/08 at 5:53pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bowie
The other thing to consider is how much Universal charged to license Ironside to Shout in the first place. If it was high, then Ironside would've had to do extremely well to turn a profit for Shout.

It's interesting to compare that to the Universal/Timeless relationship. What made Laredo work for Timeless, and not Ironside for Shout? Did Laredo really sell a whole lot better? Or did Timeless negotiate a better deal, or were Timeless' expectations more realistic? Or maybe Laredo (and now Wagon Train?) isn't selling so well either....

Or maybe Universal charged more for Ironside than Laredo. Surely that's a possibility. Also, I'm thinking that the prints Timeless gets for shows like Laredo (which are much more uneven than the prints we saw for Ironside) make a difference in the deals. It's one thing to get the rights to distribute a show, and another to also get pristine prints from the studio vaults. Correct?

Gary "hope that made sense" O.
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post #48 of 109
12/19/08 at 7:32pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
Or maybe Universal charged more for Ironside than Laredo. Surely that's a possibility. Also, I'm thinking that the prints Timeless gets for shows like Laredo (which are much more uneven than the prints we saw for Ironside) make a difference in the deals. It's one thing to get the rights to distribute a show, and another to also get pristine prints from the studio vaults. Correct?

Gary "hope that made sense" O.

I don't have any of the Timeless sets but from what I heard for most of their releases they use prints they get on their own from collectors. So they're basically only paying Universal for distribution rights. I think also that's why Shout! ended up with syndicated prints for most of Father Knows Best season 1 episodes. They used the prints they got from the estate of Robert Young. In order to get complete episode prints they had to go to Sony which undobutedly does not allow use of it's prints for free (thus adding to expenses for the release). Just my take on the situation.
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post #49 of 109
12/19/08 at 9:08pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

I mentioned Laredo specifically because Timeless used Universal's tape masters. So what they received from Universal (rights + elements) on that show is the same as what Shout got on Laredo. Same thing with the color Wagon Trains, I believe. For the other Universal shows where Timeless supplied the prints, then, yes, the deals would not be comparable.
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post #50 of 109
12/20/08 at 5:48am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bowie
I mentioned Laredo specifically because Timeless used Universal's tape masters. So what they received from Universal (rights + elements) on that show is the same as what Shout got on Laredo. Same thing with the color Wagon Trains, I believe. For the other Universal shows where Timeless supplied the prints, then, yes, the deals would not be comparable.

Oh, ok. My bad. I thought you were making a general comparison. In this specific case, the only two things I could think of as to differences between what Shout possibly paid for IRONSIDE and what Timeless paid for LAREDO are:

1) Perhaps it's just as simple as Universal thinking Ironside was a more high profile series and they charged more for it than Laredo. Therefore Shout couldn't get the return it needed in sales to keep the series going, whereas Timeless didn't have to pay as much for the series and therefore had a lower bottom line.

2) Perhaps the deal Timeless has with Universal was more of a package deal where they got the nice prints for Laredo but also picked up the other westerns in the package as well, series that were uneven and not as popular.

Gary "hey, it's all a guessing game most of the time because the studios generally don't share inside info with us - except when you get a great guy like David Levine who sheds some much needed light on these subjects" O.
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post #51 of 109
12/20/08 at 4:40pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Good points, Gary, which I'm not knowledgeable enough to speculate about. Except that, as Timeless is going ahead with Laramie (also to be sourced from Universal's masters, if my info is correct), they seem to have found a business model with Uni that works for them.

It'll be interesting to see if Shout continues with Adam-12. Given that Adam-12 is contemporaneous with Ironside and of the same genre, I wouldn't expect the numbers to be hugely different between the two, but clearly Shout had reason to hope otherwise.

I will say, given how generally mediocre Ironside is, that I'm surprised at how disappointed I am that the supply has dried up. It's a good popcorn show. I hope it continues to emerge on DVD in Australia, at least.
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post #52 of 109
1/7/09 at 10:31pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Foulard
I've just ordered this from DevotedDVD (I've used them before successfully) and it came to about $29 in US dollars. Their shipping is pretty low--I checked it against a bunch of other Aussie vendors, and it was one of the cheapest.

Hey guy thanks again for the tip, I just got my Ironside season 3 set in the mail today ship "air mail" from singapore? I got the shipping confirmation email on december 19th and got today jan 7th, if thats air mail it must have been a Cessna 172 I hate to see what the slow boat would have been... dec 19th 2009 LOL! . I pop the first disk into my region free phillips dvd player (via region 0 code) and skip around the three different episode on disk one and they play fine. I give the video captures C grade and audio a b-, yes its not as nice of a job as shout might have done, but its very watchable on my vizio vx32L if sized 4:3. I wonder if you got your set yet and what are your impressions of season 3 the region 4 set? Honestly if season four comes out in region 4 I'm homest thinking of buy it too unless the quality of the set takes a big hit later disks. Thanks again for the tip. Bob S.
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post #53 of 109
1/8/09 at 11:14am

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSchneider
I wonder if you got your set yet and what are your impressions of season 3 the region 4 set? Honestly if season four comes out in region 4 I'm homest thinking of buy it too unless the quality of the set takes a big hit later disks. Thanks again for the tip. Bob S.

I got mine a little while ago--it must have been on the faster slow boat. I took a peek at it and it looks pretty equal to the US seasons 1 and 2. I'm still finishing season 1 (I have about a dozen cop/spy/etc. shows of that era that I'm rotating through). I've found the picture quality of that season to be sort of middling--not terrible, but not as crystal clear as the CBS/Paramount shows. My assumption is that it's the same video mastering that we would have gotten from Shout if they'd released it here, since it seems to originate from them.

I noticed that the inside of the disc cases had text material on season 3, unlike the blank ones on season 1 and 2. I don't know if the Australian company (Madman) added that or if it came with the package they got from Shout.
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post #54 of 109
1/8/09 at 7:09pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Very sad news: Don Galloway has passed away at the relatively young age of 71. He was excellent in Ironside and thanks to his friendship with Raymond Burr appeared in other projects with Burr also.

Aside from Burr who was much older than the rest of the cast, Galloway is the first regular from this series who has passed. (Not counting Gene Lyons who made occasional appearances as Commish Randall.)

RIP to a fine actor and gentleman who I enjoyed in whatever he did.
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post #55 of 109
1/8/09 at 9:00pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve...O
Very sad news: Don Galloway has passed away at the relatively young age of 71. He was excellent in Ironside and thanks to his friendship with Raymond Burr appeared in other projects with Burr also.

Aside from Burr who was much older than the rest of the cast, Galloway is the first regular from this series who has passed. (Not counting Gene Lyons who made occasional appearances as Commish Randall.)

RIP to a fine actor and gentleman who I enjoyed in whatever he did.


Wow that sad , I like Don Gallowayand he passed quite young too, wow I really feel old now at 45, remebering watching the Ironside re runs with my long since passed grandma Rosie (she was a huge perry manson fan too). Well he'll be missed but he got this great role a Ed Brown and others to be remembered by.
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post #56 of 109
1/8/09 at 9:13pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Foulard
I got mine a little while ago--it must have been on the faster slow boat. I took a peek at it and it looks pretty equal to the US seasons 1 and 2. I'm still finishing season 1 (I have about a dozen cop/spy/etc. shows of that era that I'm rotating through). I've found the picture quality of that season to be sort of middling--not terrible, but not as crystal clear as the CBS/Paramount shows. My assumption is that it's the same video mastering that we would have gotten from Shout if they'd released it here, since it seems to originate from them.

I noticed that the inside of the disc cases had text material on season 3, unlike the blank ones on season 1 and 2. I don't know if the Australian company (Madman) added that or if it came with the package they got from Shout.


Yes the disk case art work is a step above shouts work. But the captures on the video is a C grade I gave shouts S1 and S2 video captures b- , the audio is about the same. But the region 4 disk set is very watchable and sense Ironside re run have disappeared from the So CAL tv market it nice watch s3 whenever I want and hopefully s4 will be out soon. Im still very chessed off at Shout because it very very very obvious they actively particapted in region 4 release of s3 it would have talken very little work for them to release this set in the U.S. but shout still wants to play its the happy hippy video company and flake out hippy dippy punks in the 60's did oh well. Hopefully more region4 season will continue to roll out.
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post #57 of 109
5/21/09 at 3:59pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

There may be a slight glimmer of hope for Ironside Season 3 here in the US.

Go to Shout's website they have put up a poll for you to vote "For which Shout! show would you most like to see the next season released?"

Ironside is listed. So come on all you Ironside fans lets put in vote for Ironside and maybe it will change Shout's mind and we will be able to get Season 3 here in US
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post #58 of 109
5/21/09 at 4:04pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Good news if true, but I thought Shout lost their license for this show??
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post #59 of 109
5/21/09 at 4:27pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

If they didn't lose the license and it's somehow still possible for them to release a third season, then the credibility of their public spokesman goes even further into the toilet.
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post #60 of 109
5/21/09 at 4:56pm

Re: Ironside SEASON 3

Their credibility might be shot RE Ironside, but everyone who has complained here SHOULD GO THERE AND VOTE!

Maybe it'll work out for us after all!

VOTE!
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