Kindle or Sony ebook reader ... or the Nook?

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

I ordered a Kindle on the announcement day and received it on Wednesday. So far, I love it. The E-Ink display provides an experience very close to that of reading a real paperback book. But the Sony provides that as well. It's the Kindle's ability to order a new book directly from the device (no matter where you are) and have it available to read within minutes that is, IMO, revolutionary. It's not perfect (it IS a first-gen device), but I think Amazon has something here. Kindle may turn out to be the original 5GB iPod of eReading devices.

It's my understanding that backlighting is impossible on e-Ink devices like the Kindle (& the Sony Reader), as it's an opaque display. It's just like a book in that regard - if you're in a place where you need light to read a book, you'll need light to read the Kindle.

I don't have the booklight that Amazon is selling with the Kindle, but they claim it has the light of 6 ordinary LEDs.

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Do you get the same amount of text on screen at once that you would in a paperback? The way I hope it is is that you read a page and hit the page turn button like you're flipping a real page. I hate scrolling when I'm reading.

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I'm going to be real honest and a total nay-sayer here.. things like "Kindle" etc. diminish the whole reason why I love books, audio books, etc. and why I just can't see it catching.

I love my audible account, but I treasure nothing more then my literal, in the paper library. There is something comforting about opening up a real book and curling up in a blanket or bookmarking to remember things you liked at the moment.. and years later finding those bookmarks and remembering those moments.

I applaud amazon for trying something different, but at $400, I can't see any valid reason why I should give up by buying $13 paperbacks when I hop on flight, knowing that paperback and join my library and stay with me, be loaned to my kids, etc. whenever I want.. rather then an expensive item.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Kindle will really catch fire. But count me as one in the crowd who can't see Kindle as truly viable.

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I think something like Kindle could definitely catch on... comparing it to the 1st gen iPod may end up being a very accurate comparison.

I would be interested in one, except $400 is too much when you have to pay $10 for books (then again it is a 1st gen device)... I'll probably wait for a 2nd or 3rd gen version. I'm not crazy about the keyboard thing... I know it needs something like that, but it would be cool if it could be tucked away when you didn't need it.

I hope the later gen models rely on more than just Sprint's cell network for wireless. There is no Sprint coverage in Alaska at all, but AT&T wireless is coming in the next month or so.

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As a Brit, I'm reading this with great interest as we haven't got these devices yet. I want one for the simple reason that we're running out of room in my house and my office for books [when I moved jobs, one of my stipulations was that my new office had to have a minimum of 500 ft of shelf space - and that doesn't hold all my textbooks by any means; then we start on the novels, the poetry, the general information books, etc, etc]. Much as I love the tactile feel of books, I'd love to be able to ditch the 'routine' ones and replace them with a simple, single electronic book.

So, given that motivation, would I buy the new ebooks? No - or rather, not yet. There are several key issues that need to be resolved. In particular, the screen size is too small. What we need is a double screen that folds up - well, like a book. It also needs to be a bit bigger so that on the two screens you would see exactly the same text as in a paperback book. There is a very good reason print and book sizes are the way they are - they are optimised for the typical reader. A single page of text in the current format doesn't allow the eye to wander automatically to further in the text. You may not think your eyes do this, but trust me, they do, and they hugely enhance your reading speed and (for want of a better term) processing efficiency.

I would also not be too keen on pursuing the 'this is lighter than a book' process. We get a reassuring feel from holding a firm, substantial book. Something too flimsy sends the wrong vibes. And, whilst I'm demanding the impossible, the current format will be hopeless for reading a newspaper. One of the pleasures of newspaper reading is to be able to butterfly flit around a page, looking for the news stories that interest you. A set of headlines and links on a page just ain't the same. Oh yes, and we need interactivity - how else can one do the crossword and the sudoku? And with a textbook, we need the ability to make margin notes, highlight text, etc. So a good electronic pen and writing system is a must.

My personal hunch is that within two generations we will get the dual screen paperback and electronic pen. I think it'll take four generations to get a decent newspaper simulation. And then - oh boy, are we in for a cultural change. I don't think many people have thought through the possibilities that electronic books and newspapers open up. But consider the following couple of ideas:

(1) how long will traditional printing last once ebooks become widespread? I would give news-stands, bookshops et al at best thirty years.

(2) how long will writing on paper last? Personal letters are disappearing now we have emails, and really the only places in which people use handwriting on a regular basis are schools and to a lesser extent colleges/universities. I would guess that for many adults, the sole times they use a pen and paper are writing the shopping list and signing for something. Once we have ebooks, how much longer before kids learn to write on electronic notepads? And then, given the ever-improving handwriting recognition programs, it's a short step from there to writing movements being automatically converted into standard print. Handwriting as we know it could disappear in two generations.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

Kindle has 6 text sizes. The smallest size is about equivalent to a paperback page. For those of us whose eyes are getting older, however, the larger text sizes are a blessing.

You can switch among the text sizes at any time. I use different sizes depending on whether I'm using Kindle on a table, or holding it in a chair, and on whether I wearing my contacts or my glasses.

And yes, you have a (large) page turn button you click when you are ready to advance (of course there's a page back button as well). I'm pretty sure the E-Ink technology doesn't even support scrolling.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

The price is getting a lot of criticism from folks on the Amazon forums who have apparently never bought consumer electronics before. As you point out, it's a first-gen, early-adopter price. This is no different from the first $1000 CD & DVD players, digicams, & more recently the $600 iPhone.

It's important to note that the $9.99 book price is for current best-sellers, and is a high-end. Most books I have looked at are cheaper than that. For example, I'm interested in reading the Navajo mysteries by Tony Hillerman. The entire series is available for Kindle at $5.99 a pop. This is one dollar cheaper than the paperbacks. Now, like Chris I love collecting books, but like Andrew I'm pretty much out of room. This is where Kindle will be very handy.

I've seen book prices as low as $1.50 for classics like the works of Dickens, Austen, etc. Of course, you can also download these for free from Project Gutenberg - Kindle reads plain text files directly. Or you can convert them to Kindle format using free tools from mobipocket.com, or using Amazon's e-mail service (which is also free if you just have them e-mailed back to you instead of directly to the Kindle). So you could read exclusively classics from PG and never pay a cent for content on the Kindle.

The keyboard is used for searching in the store, and for note-taking. However, while you're reading it's just there taking up space. I fully expect that in future models this will be refined - you may have a hideaway KB as you mentioned, or a choice of a "reader-only" model with no KB. A touch-screen a la the iPhone might be the ultimate solution, but it's my understanding that the E-Ink technology is not there yet.

I was a little surprised they used the USA-only EV-DO (CDMA) network at first. But after thinking about it, I think this was a deliberate decision by Amazon to limit the initial base of Kindle to the US just to make it easier for them to evaluate how it's performing, and to have closer control over the network. I have no doubt that if Kindle's successful, future versions will use GSM or WiFi, making them truly international devices.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

Thanks. I've never liked scrolling ebooks, which is one reason I rarely read them.

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It seems to me that electronic book readers will discourage sharing of books. I'm assuming that when I buy a book, it is attached to that kindle and can't be transferred to another. To share the book, I would have to loan out the kindle.

From the video on Amazon, it would also appear that the kindle owner is dependent on Amazon to back up his purchased books. There was no mention you could put the books on your pc.

This is an interesting idea, but this is an early adopter price. The kindle might be a big hit or a flop. I do believe there is no avoiding change and that electronic books will become common one day.

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Sorry, Pat, I don't have a book light and therefore cannot answer your question.
This is true. I believe if you have multiple Kindles on the same account (a family each has their own Kindle) all books purchased on that account can be read on any of the Kindles attached to the account. But that's the extent of the sharing allowed.
Funny, one of the big complaints from folks who haven't actually looked at the Amazon video is that they felt they would be SOL if the Kindle broke - that they would lose all their purchased media. Not true - Amazon keeps a record of everything you buy and you can re-download it at any time to any Kindle attached to your account. This is a GOOD thing - many wish the iTunes Store had the same feature.

But if you want a local backup, you can do so. The Kindle comes with a USB cable. Hook it up to your PC (or Mac) and the Kindle appears just like any USB storage device. No special software needed - just drag & drop files to & from the Kindle. You can easily back up your Kindle content on your PC (I just did this). You also use this method to copy Audible books, MP3s, and your own non-DRMd reading material to the Kindle. I just did this with Dickens' "Bleak House" obtained from Project Gutenberg. Works great.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

I would "test drive" an ebook reader before buying. I've played with a recent Sony reader at a bookstore and found it too slow to be enjoyably useful. A recent review I read of the new Sony also noted that the page-turn took about 2 seconds, which seems unbearably long to my tastes. (If I'm off base here, correct me.)

Now, if there were a full-color system with quick response, and magazine subscription options (think Newsweek), that would be quite interesting to me.

That's not very reassuring: I have books on my bookshelf, but the stores I bought them from no longer exist. Perhaps I'm too pack-ratty, but I like the sight of books on shelves. I enjoy rereading books I've had for nearly 30 years. I'm dubious of an ebook will be readable in 30 years. I'm skeptical of any claim that Amazon will be around in 30 years.

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I drop a book on the floor, no biggie. I drop a kindle on the floor, here comes the anger and tears. It's a neat idea, but not $400 neat. For it to catch on, you need to get it down to double-digits, and I suspect in time the price will fall.

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I agree. This has got to be cheap enough so I won't cry if I break it, cheap enough so that I might buy it on impulse. The money to be made should come from selling the content. However, I do understand they want this to be a limited roll out and thus the steep price.

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Ah, I did not know that. With "free" public domain titles the Kindle/Reader starts to make much more sense. When you can only read $10 eBooks its a bad product, a new eBook should cost pennies, since there is no cost to publish beyond server fees. (a quick search will turn up dozens of titles that cost significantly more in e-form).

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Did you miss my following paragraph where I described how you can back up your Kindle content to your own computer?? The point is you're covered both ways.

I love the sight of books on shelves too. What I'm not liking right now is the sight of books stacked everywhere in my house because I am out of shelf space - and I have no room to install new ones. The Kindle is clearly not a solution for everyone, but I'm hoping it will work for me as a tool to manage my collection - ideally the "keepers" will stay on the shelves, the "read once" titles will be Kindle.

I won't claim to know that Amazon will be around in 30 years, but if ANY current e-tailer will last that long, surely it will be Amazon.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

Yeah, this is going to be a sticking point for some with the current state of the E-Ink technology. In my experience the page-turn time on Kindle is 1-2 seconds. Doesn't bother me - takes that long to turn a real page anyway.
Again, the E-Ink technology's not there yet (color). I'm sure it will come in time.

And Kindle DOES have magazine (& newspaper) subscriptions. For example, you can get Time for $1.50 a month. However, it's not a digital representation of the magazine (like, say, the Zinio service). You get all the text content of the mag in a book-like format. Obviously, this will not satisfy many people. Kindle as it stands now is a reasonable solution for material that is solely or primarily text - novels, biographies, etc. It's just not there for heavily graphical material.

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Sorry, but this is a specious argument. If you really buy into this, then you would own NO handheld electonic gadgets. Digicams, camcorders, cell phones, MP3 players, game players - you drop 'em, they can break. Shit happens - you break your toys and you deal with it. Replace 'em if they're important to you, move on otherwise. At least with Kindle Amazon has all your content purchases on their server ready to fill up your replacement Kindle...

Oh, and as far as "drop a book on the floor, no biggie"... I dropped a book of mine a few months ago. A nice, heavy guide to England full of beautiful color photography. 20 years old and (of course) no longer available. Accidentally knocked it off of my bar (about 3.5 feet) onto carpet. Unfortunately, it landed on the edge and the spine ripped badly. The "anger and tears" definitely came.

Funny thing is, I suspect my Kindle would survive the same fall nicely, at least based on Amazon's drop tests (see the video on the Amazon Kindle page), and on the fact that I keep my Kindle in its protective cover.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

No doubt. Again, this is no new concept to readers of this forum, many of whom happily shelled out $1000 for their first DVD player. But DVD didn't take off with the masses until the price hit one-fifth of that. $79-$99 sounds about right as a "magic price point" for an eBook reader.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

Why should a new eBook cost pennies?? Are you saying the author & publishing house should receive no remuneration at all? I simply don't agree with that notion.

Now, I agree that eBooks should be cheaper than physical books. Most of the titles I've checked out on Amazon are. The $9.99 price is, as I've mentioned before, for new books & best-sellers.

And if we're talking about an eBook version of a physical title you already own (or are purchasing), then yes - I would like to see that be a nominal add-on fee (or nothing).

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If the Kindle were $99, I'd snap at it. A perfect place to grab "pulp" books that I don't want to own the hardbound of. I'll always own the hardbound copies of things I really treasure (Harry Potter as a recent example), but for something that's airplane reading "pulp" stuff, probably perfect.

$400 is too steep. I know it's the early adopter price. All I have to say is: early adopters on this are suckers.

Amazon has to be making some money on everything they sell for the Kindle, a little cut of every book you buy for the Kindle, etc. So, why shouldn't the thing be much cheaper to get more people to buy so they can make more money on the sell-through of product to it?

That's the way it could (should) work. At the same time, I understand it's a costly device and they can't lose a ton of money on it. But it seems as though the first generation is overly spendy.

This is the same problem as the PS3 ran into.. though, apparent by the sell numbers, not as bad. The target price for this needs to be sub $200. My target may be $99, but sub $200 will get a lot more business adopters (those like me who fly frequently... which is where this thing strikes me as potentially very interesting).

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

I carry a company Blackberry (would never have one otherwise), no ipod, no camcorder, no portable games, no MP3 players. I do have digital cameras, but typically I have them strapped around my neck, or with a wrist strap, and unlike a kindle/book, I'm not holding them in my hands for long periods of time. I guess I don't really do portable "gadgets" all that much. A kindle that has a prominent reading screen as its main selling point, unfortunate drops on hard surfaces that crack the screen would deter people from plunking down another $400 to replace it. It has to be cheaper to approach a level of "disposable-ness" when they fail or are damaged by the ravages of gravity at the most inopportune time. The smaller gadgets with the smaller video screens are probably harder to crack than larger screens when inadvertently dropped, due to simple physics and material properties.


At least keep it apples to apples with the anecdotes, I drop a book the size of a kindle, and it's doubtful it's going to sustain that much damage. Plus, would you lug a heavy guide around with you all the time (like a kindle)? I doubt it. You just got unlucky (I know the pain, I've damaged collectible stuff from accidental drops). But for most part, an average paperback isn't going to suffer much damage from getting dropped.


Time will tell if the kindle proves reliable, else we'll see testimonies of people bemoaning a cracked screen rendering their new $400 toy useless. To get people to "buy into" the kindle revolution, Amazon is going to have to come up with an inexpensive warranty replacement program so that people get accustomed to kindle reading, and aren't faced with pouring more money into the product than absolutely necessary to keep the people interested in buying the kindle books as Amazon's revenue stream, i.e., don't make the hardware price-prohibitive to use the software (kindle books) for a long time, since books don't 'expire', is it too much to ask for a long life for kindles. If the product takes off, I would see the kindle hardware being treated like "free" cell phones that are used to get people hooked on the service (software - the book files) provided that the user agrees to a contract of purchase (like a book/month) for some duration that makes it profitable for Amazon/etc.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

I'm not an early adopter, but I don't think they are suckers. People buying the kindle now, most of them must know it will eventually drop in price. It is "worth" it to them to pay extra to have it now. If I could afford it, I think I would too.

They're not suckers just because they made a decision you wouldn't make.

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Maybe Bezos will pull a Jobs and issue kindle book credits once the price of the kindle drops, like the iPhone did after a few months.

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And I don't like papyrus - put it near a lamp flame and it burns. I'll stick to reading runes carved on rocks

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That's my point. I want a digital magazine replacement. Not a gray-scale, text only replacement. I like the permanence of books. But magazines are ephemera -- read it this week, in the trash the next week. So they're perfect for a transient e-reader. But I want full color, high resolution magazine replication. I also want to be able to quickly "flip" pages; my understanding is that current e-readers are pokey and so would not encourage browsing.

This reminds me of early digital cameras, when they could capture 12 photos at 640 x 480. It was so much worse than traditional cameras, except for the few people that loved gadgets for their own sake, or would benefit despite the huge flaws. But now, digital cameras are superior in almost every practical manner to film cameras.

So it may be in a few years; these e-readers are nowhere near replacing books in general. But for some, even these initial crude devices are worth having. But I don't see much point for most people until they've improved a great deal.

Re: Kindle or Sony ebook reader

That's where we differ. The Kindle is offering a text only version of newspapers & magazines at a DISCOUNTED price? I'll take 2!

So what would you rather have? A full color system with a battery you have to recharge everyday, or what the kindle now offers where if you keep the internet access off, the batter can last a several weeks. I dreaded the day they "updated" cell phones to offer the color screen only. My current cell phone is the Nokia 6340i, and I like the fact that I only have to charge it once a week. There were beta Kindle testers out there that said they could go over 3 weeks without charging the battery. I like that.

I used to feel that way about CDs too. Now I have all my music stored on my PC, and the CDs are neatly tucked away in several boxes in my attic. I also felt that way about DVDs, until space once again became an issue. This past summer, I've been able to start the process of storing my DVDs onto my PC as well. It's nice to have all this free space where my DVD cases used to be, and I also have MUCH easier access to my music & movies. Now my bookshelves only have ::gasp:: books! And now that they are making e-readers that are apparently very good, I look forward to moving that to digital media as well. If only there was a way to get all the books I already own to digital for free... instead of repurchasing everything.


I hope they don't choose that route. I hate that about US cell phone companies. Right now, the Kindle is an expensive upfront cost, and you are under no obligation right now to purchase anything through Amazon. You can use google books, or Project Gutenberg or any other method as other alternatives to putting your info on the Kindle. And they currently give you free internet access!

I don't have a Kindle, but as someone who currently has a 50 minute train ride each direction for work, I'm very interested in one.

Did anyone else find it odd that you can subscribe to Time Magazine, but it was Newsweek that had the 8 page article about it? We can only guess that Newsweek will soon be available on Amazon.

I'm reviving this thread hoping someone has some more current feedback.  The price of the basic model is now $250, but the thing that really got my attention is that I mostly read classic literature, and most of them are free.  That is really hard to resist.  I downloaded the Kindle for Mac app along with about 20 free books, just so I could see what I got.  I'm not going to read on the computer, but the small Kindle now sounds very intriguing.

I did not see this thread earlier, but I've owned an original Kindle since July of 2008 and subsequently purchased a 2nd generation Kindle shortly after they were released.  Personally I can only recommend E-ink devices for long format reading.  I find that reading on a computer screen or LCD/LED screen for any extended period creates a bit of eye strain.

 

In terms of free literature, such as the numerous classics, I'm not certain that the Kindle distinguishes itself from other e-readers since IMHO, the chief advantage of the Kindle is its integration with amazon (in terms of purchasing books either from amazon or via the Kindle itself.)  While I have not compared some of the free versions vs. copies available on amazon - I have purchased any number of classic works from MobileReference on amazon.  The strategy being that for only a few dollars I have a better chance of proper formatting / less errors in a commercial release vs. a free copy.  The Mobile Reference editions offer a great value for the reader in terms of content vs. price.

 

Some of the works that I've purchased include:

 

The Works of Charles Dickens.

The Works of Fyodor Dostoevsky

The Works of Edgar Allen Poe

The Works of Henry David Thoreau

The Works of Joseph Conrad

The Works of Mark Twain

The Complete Illustrated Novels of Jane Austen

 

All for very reasonable prices ( < $5.00 each IIRC)  If you go to the Kindle Books section on amazon and perform a search for   Mobi  you can get a feel for what is available.

 

As to whether or not it is the right time to purchase a Kindle - I honestly don't know.  I'm sure that the Apple iPad and a host of competing E-Readers is likely putting pressure on amazon to continue to drive improvements on the Kindle platform.  Recently version 2.5.2 software was released that permits users to organize their books into collections.  Something that Kindle users have been requesting for the past few years.  I'm sure there will be a newer version of Kindle within 18 months; but - When will it be available?  What features / upgrades will it provide?  What will it cost?  Also, I would expect an increase in contrast ratio with the next generation model.  I think the current screens are quite readable; but more contrast is always welcome.

 

Kind of hard to recommend right now; but if you do purchase one - I'm sure that you will enjoy using it.  I value quality over quantity in terms of my possessions and the Kindle is something I use almost daily and it is one of the neatest things I own.

 

Forgot to add - I've been pursuing de-cluttering and a more minimalistic life style for the past 15 months and one of the areas that the Kindle really helps in this reqard is the ability to possess hundreds of books in no more space than a small notepad.  IMHO, a great way to still satisfy the desire to read a variety of works at any time while maintaining a more streamlined and less cluttered living space.

 

- Walter.

 

 

Edited by Walter Kittel - 6/20/10 at 8:18pm