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Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

post #1 of 22
11/20/07 at 10:09am
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

I just updated the firmware on my Toshiba HD DVD A2 to 2.7. When I went to check everything out, I put in a standard DVD. What played was the movie inside of a box about 1/2 the size of my Sony 16.9 LCD. When I used to play any DVD, the screen would be full size. When I tried an HD DVD, it played in a full size screen.

I called Toshiba and the tech had me re-initialize the A2 and we checked all of the settings. The result was the same. He told me that he did not know what the problem was and instructed me to send it in for repair. I told him that this was my second unit [the first one kept locking up, but the store where I bought it from replaced it for me]. I do not want to be without the player for weeks on end while Toshiba tries to figure this all out [especially around the holidays].

Has anyone else had this problem? If not, don't update your player to the 2.7 update until they work this out. Now I'm stuck with an HD DVD that plays standard DVD's in a small box within my 16.9 LCD!
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post #2 of 22
11/20/07 at 10:27am

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7

Sounds like when i play a widescreen, and this is the important part...widescreen, but NOT 16:9 enhanced movie on my Plasma. I assume you checked all your settings, just in case. My Blu-ray player needs to have my personal settings re-applied. Sorry i cant be more help, good luck!
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post #3 of 22
11/20/07 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 

Update on Toshiba A2 firmware 2.7 upgrade

Hi All,

In my previous post, I mentioned that after I updated the firmware on my Tosh A2 to 2.7 my DVD picture looked very small [as a square inside my Sony LCD 16.9 TV]. What I discovered is that this only happens with some standard DVD's. All the HD DVD's are fine.

For instance, my older standard Paramount widescreen DVD of Deep Impact. When I played the DVD, the picture is just a small box inside the larger 16.9 screen. This never happened before the 2.7 update. However, most of all my other favorite standard DVD's are fine as before [such as all the Star Trek movies, Lost in Space, etc.].

I double checked my settings and then slipped the Deep Impact disc back in to see if there were any other widescreen settings on the DVD itself, but there are not. So, to watch this particular DVD in full widescreen on my
Sony, I have to set the TV to zoom or wide zoom.

There is something weird going on and I did report it to Toshiba. They are checking it out, but it appears to be happening on just some DVD's.

Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this on their 2.7 firmware upgrade. If you have the Deep Impact DVD, please give it a try and let me know if the same thing happens to your picture.

Thanks,

Mitch
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post #4 of 22
11/20/07 at 12:37pm

Re: Update on Toshiba A2 firmware 2.7 upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch
my DVD picture looked very small [as a square inside my Sony LCD 16.9 TV]. What I discovered is that this only happens with some standard DVD's. All the HD DVD's are fine.

For instance, my older standard Paramount widescreen DVD of Deep Impact.

So, to watch this particular DVD in full widescreen on my
Sony, I have to set the TV to zoom or wide zoom.

I think Deep Impact is a non-anamorphic DVD, so to fill your screen, you would have to watch it in zoomed mode.
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post #5 of 22
11/20/07 at 12:37pm

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

There is nothing wierd at all going on. What you describe is perfectly normal behavior, and would have happened on your player with any firmware version. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your player.

What is happening is that you are watching non-anamorphic SD-DVDs on your player. They are not set up for widescreen, so the player is displaying the letterboxed image in the 4:3 area of your TV. The only way to see a non-anamorphic DVD 'fill' your widescreen TV is to tell your player that you have a 4:3 TV, and then use the zoom feature of your tv.

Telling the player that you have a 4:3 TV will horizontally stretch the image, and using the zoom on your TV will vertically stretch the image, resulting in the correct aspect ratio.

I hope you haven't sent off your player yet, since there is nothing wrong with it. I'm also a little disturbed that Toshiba wouldn't recognize what is going on, and ask you to send in your player.
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post #6 of 22
11/20/07 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Thanks Jeff & Perry,

You are correct! All of my other DVD's work fine. Toshiba tech support did not realize which DVD I was using, nor did they ask. I will call them back and let them know.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Mitch
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post #7 of 22
11/20/07 at 2:52pm

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch
Thanks Jeff & Perry,

You are correct! All of my other DVD's work fine. Toshiba tech support did not realize which DVD I was using, nor did they ask. I will call them back and let them know.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Mitch
Hey, i was right!
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post #8 of 22
11/21/07 at 1:58pm

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Jeff C., weren't you and I in a thread sussing out this very same issue about maybe 6 months ago? I may be wrong on your participation, but there was a guy having the same problem with his first DVD releases of Rounders and Pulp Fiction (which were not anamorphic).

Mitch, rather than take the hits in resolution that result from zooming the picture to the correct aspect, I highly recommend that you buy the anamorphic Special Collector's Edition re-release of Deep Impact.
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post #9 of 22
11/26/07 at 11:37pm

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Quote:
Telling the player that you have a 4:3 TV will horizontally stretch the image, and using the zoom on your TV will vertically stretch the image, resulting in the correct aspect ratio.
And one other thing that's problematic about this work around is that--in addition to the loss in rez resulting from zooming--there's also the loss in rez from having to switch to 480i/p to preclude, depending upon your TV, the loss of aspect ratio control when watching at anything higher than that. My Tosh set locks into "Full" mode when watching content above 480p, whether via component vid or HDMI.
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post #10 of 22
11/27/07 at 8:48am

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Glad the problem was sorted out; but, as a result, we now have an incendiary heading on a thread that is completely inaccurate. Would the admin consider changing the head to something less misleading?
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post #11 of 22
11/27/07 at 8:48am

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Seriously. . .can we please change the title of this thread?

EDIT: Bob beat me by *that* much!
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post #12 of 22
11/29/07 at 4:02pm

Re: Warning! Potential problem with Tosh A2 firmware update 2.7 (merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Cooper
There is nothing wierd at all going on. What you describe is perfectly normal behavior, and would have happened on your player with any firmware version. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your player.

What is happening is that you are watching non-anamorphic SD-DVDs on your player. They are not set up for widescreen, so the player is displaying the letterboxed image in the 4:3 area of your TV. The only way to see a non-anamorphic DVD 'fill' your widescreen TV is to tell your player that you have a 4:3 TV, and then use the zoom feature of your tv.

Telling the player that you have a 4:3 TV will horizontally stretch the image, and using the zoom on your TV will vertically stretch the image, resulting in the correct aspect ratio.

I hope you haven't sent off your player yet, since there is nothing wrong with it. I'm also a little disturbed that Toshiba wouldn't recognize what is going on, and ask you to send in your player.

I just got my HD-A2 player. My problem is..when i play a 4:3 dvd the player automatically stretches the image to fit my 16:9 tv.
How do i correct this?
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post #13 of 22
11/29/07 at 5:21pm

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

If you tell your player that you are connected to a 16:9 tv, it should automatically pillarbox (add the black bars to the left and right sides of) the 4:3 content and display it properly on your 16:9 tv.

One caveat: I am connected through HDMI, and this is the behaviour I have experienced. I don't know if the player automatically pillerboxes 4:3 content on 16:9 displays if connected via component or something other than HDMI.

If component doesn't do this (pillarbox) then you'll have to set your TV to 4:3 mode on the TV itself.
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post #14 of 22
11/30/07 at 6:21pm

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

I am using component cables. I've tried setting up the tv at a 4:3 ratio before i pop in a disc in my hd-a2 player. It still stretches the 4:3 disc to fit my screen as soon as the disc starts up.
I called Toshiba and they are mailing me a firmware update disc. I hope this solves my problem. I'm getting tired of watching MASH and my other dvds stretched out of shape.
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post #15 of 22
11/30/07 at 8:40pm

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Davey, what is the make and model of your television? IIRC I had this problem with my HD-D1 and it was never resolved; it was a design flaw of the player, at least insofar as the way it interacted with my Tosh television.
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post #16 of 22
12/1/07 at 4:09am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Davey, what is the make and model of your television? IIRC I had this problem with my HD-D1 and it was never resolved; it was a design flaw of the player, at least insofar as the way it interacted with my Tosh television.

I have a Magnavox 51 inch set. I bought it July 2005.
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post #17 of 22
12/1/07 at 7:32am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Thx, Davey. Keep us posted . . . and your expectations muted: I could be wrong but I doubt the firmware upgrade will rectify the issue you're experiencing.

You'll of course be missing the benefits of upconversion but you do still have a standard def player on which to play your 4x3 DVDs, yes?
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post #18 of 22
12/1/07 at 8:14am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Yeah, I'm 99% sure that the firmware upgrade won't solve anything. I don't think it's anything to do with the player.

A lot of TV's lock the screen to full 16:9 mode when they recieve progressive scan input. The HDMI connection gets around this by sending a full 16:9 signal with the "black bars" already encoded on the left and right side of the 16:9 signal.

You might try setting your output on the player to 1080i. I have no idea if this will work or not, as the tv locking to 16:9 on progressive signals was always the difference between 480i or 480p. I don't know if 1080i is not progressive in the sense that 480i is, but it's worth a shot. Set the player to 1080i, and then once the dvd is playing, switch your tv to 4:3 mode.

Edit: I guess if that doesn't work then you could set the player to output only 480i. That should allow you to select 4:3 mode on your TV. Sucks, I know, but with that particular TV it may be your only option.
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post #19 of 22
12/1/07 at 11:04am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Quote:
I don't think it's anything to do with the player.
With the caveat that I can only refer to my experience, I disagree. The HD-D1 did this. The XA2 does not. Same display.

A lot of TV's lock the screen to full 16:9 mode when they recieve progressive scan input. The HDMI connection gets around this by sending a full 16:9 signal with the "black bars" already encoded on the left and right side of the 16:9 signal.

Again, I think it's problematic to make general statements about what should or will happen regarding set/aspect ratio behavior when, at least in my reading on these subjects, I've found so much variance from not only manuf to manuf but also within one particular manuf's product line. With regards to "Full" mode, what you describe above is NOT the way my Toshiba 34HDX82 set behaves, either with my HD-D1 or HD-XA2. The set locks into "Full" mode when fed ANY signal--progressive or interlaced--above 480p.

With regard to HDMI getting around the problem, again, I had an HD-D1 connected via HDMI and it did this. I now have an XA2 connected via HDMI and it does NOT do this.

Set the player to 1080i, and then once the dvd is playing, switch your tv to 4:3 mode.

Edit: I guess if that doesn't work then you could set the player to output only 480i. That should allow you to select 4:3 mode on your TV. Sucks, I know, but with that particular TV it may be your only option.

In an abundance of caution/clarity, it should be said that, by "4:3 mode" here, Jeff, you're referring to the aspect ratio control via which the set zooms and variously stretches the IMAGE not the more straightforward choice in the player settings where you tell it what shape of physical TELEVISION you have (the choices are usually "4:3," "4:3 LBX" and "16:9"). On my Tosh, this setting's "4:3 mode" is called "Natural."
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post #20 of 22
12/1/07 at 11:47am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

My Pioneer Elite Pro-610HD RPTV locks progressive scan video input to "FULL" mode. Thus, any 4:3 (either academy ratio or non-anamorphic widescreen) is automatically stretched to fill the screen horizontally. I solved this problem by buying a Panasonic RP-91 DVD player which does a nice job of scaling to correct for this. However, I then re-introduced the problem when I recently got the A2 HD-DVD player. The only way to correct for it in the player is to go into the video settings and change it to max 480i resolution. Then the TV does the de-interlacing and you can adjust the screen.

But this is not a good solution. I can't currently run both DVD players because of lack of inputs. Therefore, at some point I'll be looking to get a receiver with component video switching.
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post #21 of 22
12/1/07 at 12:33pm

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Cooper
Yeah, I'm 99% sure that the firmware upgrade won't solve anything. I don't think it's anything to do with the player.

A lot of TV's lock the screen to full 16:9 mode when they recieve progressive scan input. The HDMI connection gets around this by sending a full 16:9 signal with the "black bars" already encoded on the left and right side of the 16:9 signal.

You might try setting your output on the player to 1080i. I have no idea if this will work or not, as the tv locking to 16:9 on progressive signals was always the difference between 480i or 480p. I don't know if 1080i is not progressive in the sense that 480i is, but it's worth a shot. Set the player to 1080i, and then once the dvd is playing, switch your tv to 4:3 mode.

Edit: I guess if that doesn't work then you could set the player to output only 480i. That should allow you to select 4:3 mode on your TV. Sucks, I know, but with that particular TV it may be your only option.

I've tried setting the player to 1080i and even 480i and the results are still the same. Another thing i've noticed, i have a format button on my tv remote and when i play a disc on the A2 player the format button wont work.
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post #22 of 22
12/3/07 at 9:54am

Re: Non-anamorphic DVDs tripped me up after Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
With the caveat that I can only refer to my experience, I disagree. The HD-D1 did this. The XA2 does not. Same display.

A lot of TV's lock the screen to full 16:9 mode when they recieve progressive scan input. The HDMI connection gets around this by sending a full 16:9 signal with the "black bars" already encoded on the left and right side of the 16:9 signal.

Again, I think it's problematic to make general statements about what should or will happen regarding set/aspect ratio behavior when, at least in my reading on these subjects, I've found so much variance from not only manuf to manuf but also within one particular manuf's product line. With regards to "Full" mode, what you describe above is NOT the way my Toshiba 34HDX82 set behaves, either with my HD-D1 or HD-XA2. The set locks into "Full" mode when fed ANY signal--progressive or interlaced--above 480p.

With regard to HDMI getting around the problem, again, I had an HD-D1 connected via HDMI and it did this. I now have an XA2 connected via HDMI and it does NOT do this.

Set the player to 1080i, and then once the dvd is playing, switch your tv to 4:3 mode.

Edit: I guess if that doesn't work then you could set the player to output only 480i. That should allow you to select 4:3 mode on your TV. Sucks, I know, but with that particular TV it may be your only option.

In an abundance of caution/clarity, it should be said that, by "4:3 mode" here, Jeff, you're referring to the aspect ratio control via which the set zooms and variously stretches the IMAGE not the more straightforward choice in the player settings where you tell it what shape of physical TELEVISION you have (the choices are usually "4:3," "4:3 LBX" and "16:9"). On my Tosh, this setting's "4:3 mode" is called "Natural."

Well yes, you're absolutely correct in that there is a wild variety in behavior of different types of sets, which is why I spoke in a general term, rather than being specific. As with what you say, I am only going off my own personal experience in how I have seen tv's behave, and what I've read about others. My suggestions were ways to try and get around the problem, and help diagnose what was going on. Since DaveyM's 'format' button on his remote still did not work when the player was set to output 480i, then I am now at a loss here.

This will be waaaaay out there, but Davey, just for kicks do you have an s-video connector? If so, try this: Connect the player to your tv via s-video only (disconnect all other video outputs from the player). Set your player to output 480i, and set your tv shape in the player to 16:9. Play a 4:3 non-anamorphic dvd and play with the 'Format' button on your remote. See if this does anything.

As a poster said above, "some" tv's will lock on full 16:9 mode with any signal, so let's see if it's the component signal. I have not heard of a tv locking on full from an s-video signal, so if this doesn't work, then it may indeed be the player and not the tv.

Agian, this is all only for testing, I certainly don't expect you to accept that this is the only way to watch your DVDs. I'm just trying to understand what's going on here.

One last question: Do you have a regular SD-DVD player that you can test on this set? Does it exhibit the same behaviour (over component)? This may also provide a clue as to whether the fault lies with the TV or the player.
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