New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse - Page 4

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

If that was so, they did a pretty good job in making the episodes flow one into the other. The Ballard material definitely followed from the first episode. Of course, they could have just moved that material around between 3 episodes when restructuring things.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Scott, I was really angry when they did that too. I'll just have to watch it online. I did watch Friday Night Lights, which for some reason was not "preempted". WTF?

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Stephen DeKnight is a good writer, but he still needs work as a director.

Not sure what I thought of "The Most Dangerous Game" twist for this show. But it was weird to see The Middle Man as a psychopath.

Ethically, this show is sort of repulsive. Plus, I am not sure they've done a good enough job to have any of the characters truly rootable yet.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I was finally able to watch the episode on Hulu. Online streaming is not even close to being able to replace SD tv, let alone HD.

This episode was a vast improvement. I liked the first one, but the second episode really felt much more like what I was hoping for. It felt much more like Joss W. was involved.

It just shows that once again when the suits make you swap out Pilots, it will probably be a bad thing. You would think that Fox had learned this, but I guess not.

The only negative thing about this episode for me was that stupid gladiator type salute they were doing to symbolize shoulder to the wheel. It just seemed so awkward.

On a positive note, I thought the dialog was much more in the Joss style. It was a little more subtle than Buffy, but it was still thee.

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Agreed. I'm watching the show because Whedon is involved but I'm having a hard time warming up to it. The repeating scenes where Echo gets out of the van in the tunnel and goes to the elevator, talking about all the things that happened to her on an engagement: 'I have to tell him how I feel'...'will you be here after', etc. really bother me. It's like betraying the trust of a child who depends on you for everything. Repulsive is the right word.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

You are right about the Dollhouse feeling a bit unethical. I guess we are to assume that the dolls willing signed up.

I was wondering if the show would be better if somehow Echo gets out and
the show was about her trying to bring the Dollhouse down?

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I don't think we can assume that for all of them. Isn't the FBI investigating partly because of human trafficking?

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Right. You get the feeling some signed 5 year contracts for the money (see: Caroline) and others were trafficked. But I'm getting serious implications the end point is to get them so pliable and prove how well it works so they can be government contracted. Which is why "Echo" stands out, as the first who may fit that role.. just a theory, but it fits so far. I think the fact that Echo could adapt beyond her programming was what Alpha or whoever was looking for.. someone who could meld together and a mind that could quickly react beyond the programming...


If you want to root for someone, I suppose you can root for the FBI agent to do his job and Echo to escape.

They of course have to bring SD-6.. er.. Dollhouse down, though

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I can, Firefly, where the execs made him refilm the pilot, and Crusade where the execs made JMS retool the show and refilm the pilot...see a pattern forming here?

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I enjoyed last night's episode, but didn't care for the Most Dangerous Game story. It's just been done too many times. The flashbacks also felt a bit clunky though, but I guess it was a decent way of setting things up.

I suppose the biggest challenge of this show is having a main character who's essentially a blank slate. She's been shown to be special, but for the moment, she's a character that learns little to nothing each episode and behaves in a completely different manner the next, without a singular motive or desire. That's the premise of the show, but it makes her hard to side with.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I think that's what they dealt with last night. Alpha was able to maintain multiple imprints. Bits & pieces, but he held together pieces of all the imprints he had. And he was able to get Echo to jump out of her current imprint with some of the stuff she had before also - the imprint she was in had no ability for the fight back she gave.

So, the question is, can she grow to hold together enough imprints?

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I loved the pilot but I loved this second ep even more. I also agree that this whole organization makes me feel very uneasy.

The only way I can feel right about the Dollhouse is if these people volunteered for this, they were told all about it and what it entails. Otherwise if they were tricked or kidnapped into this I find the whole thing despicable in the extreme.

I'm also already getting tired of hearing the following..."Did I fall asleep?"

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I’m glad so many of you loved the second show even more.
It was pretty irritating for me.
Echo was programmed to be a superb outdoors person (and a hot lover). She even disagreed with the client about the difficulty of some whitewater, “It was only a 3, maybe 3.5”
Then when “the Most Dangerous Game” started suddenly she turned into a semi-helpless female, lost her bouldering skills, began running like a girl with her arms waving around uselessly, and finally tripped and fell (the ultimate female in distress cliché).
I would also like to propose a new drinking game based on, “Did I fall asleep?”

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

This episode was so much better than the pilot. In fact, it should have been PART of the pilot, because the pilot on its own did NOT do a good job of setting up the series premise. This did a much better job, even with the awkward flashbacks. Though partly because of them.

I think the series should have started with the aftermath of the Alpha massacre. Showing us Caroline at the beginning of the pilot made her less mysterious.

It was nice seeing Mark Sheppard (BSG's Romo Lampkin!) and "Agent Helo" together in the same scene!

I don't think Echo's imprint was supposed to be a killer - she was supposed to be a capable but real person "in over her head". The psychopathic client probably wanted it that way. I have to agree though, the "running and tripping" scenes were definitely the least compelling of the episode.

This felt much more like a Joss Whedon show, in both the situations and the writing. I like the actor who plays Echo's handler. Does he remind anyone else of Chiwetel Ejiofor from "Serenity"?

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

And Badger from Firefly, of course. I guess Whedon likes him.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Another character I can't quite embrace is 'Topher'.

The show is obviously trying to set him up as the go-to geeky and playful funny man/sidekick like 'Xander' on Buffy or 'Davis' on Tru Calling but until we find out whether or not he's working for an evil and shady organization I can't find him funny or cute in any way.

Until we find out more I consider him working for the bad guys.

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I think if you take that view, he's one of the most evil of the bad guys. But maybe not. He has said in prior episodes he views himself as a great humanitarian for his work there. Just "misunderstood". When confronted with the fact they'd go to prison if people found out, his response was generally "great humanitarians are often under appreciated"

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I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of what the show will develop into, if given a chance.

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I am waiting for a scene showing one of the "dolls" coming out of his lab wearing very little after having sex with him. Since, you know thats what person like him in real life would due. (*cough* Weird Science)

Another thing I would like to see mentioned. Is suppose you have a very rich guy who likes having a women who is his perfect soulmate. Likes the same things, you know they aren't marrying you for your money and are hot. And they want to keep one long term and say marry her. I know its against all of their policies. But, it would be interesting to see it brought up.

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Honestly, that's what I thought was happening at first on this episode, when he told Echo that he'd give her some time to run away, and then it obviously turned out to be much more sinister.

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I find it hard to believe it's a Whedon show; where's the witty banter or the interesting periphery characters? I'll keep watching, but with lower expectations.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

FBI agent's neighbor, a dollhouse plant?

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That is what I thought at first. But, then she made the comment after he leaves wishing she was the girl he was searching for. That threw me off. The only thing is that she is a "doll" and has no knowledge of the whole deal.

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This is becoming a problem for me. Would I like to spend a weekend with an Eliza Dushku doll? Hell yeah. But, if they're whoring her out every week I'm going to stop watching.

It's not that I'm a prude, but she's essentially a sex slave. How is that ok? Is the point of the show that I'm supposed to root FOR the dollhouse or against it? If I'm supposed to root against them, and Eliza rebels, I guess that might be ok that they're setting them up as so slimy. But, I don't think that's where they are going.

And, it's clear from this thread everyone is sort of struggling with the same thing - is Topher a bad guy for what he does? Ethically, yeah - he's some nerd-pimp and he's totally programming some side 'entertainment'. But, I don't think Whedon is going there. I think he's the nerdy sidekick guy a la Xander in Buffy. But, the problem is that it's not funny in this case because of the ethics.

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Has this show been about, perhaps, a government-run operation where these covert "actives" go on missions that require expertise that requires years of training and familiarity, but the brain-dumps allow for Dollhouse to get these Actives up to speed in a few minutes, which also saddled with mission parameters that make it a challenge to complete the mission. But these repeated brain-dumps take its toll on the Actives, and the blenderizing of different experiences and knowledge from various profiles make for unstable Actives, and this leads to either retirement (via mind-wipe, as best they can, while also resetting them back to their baseline memory profile when they enter the program) or rogue Actives that become mercenaries to the highest bidders. Something along those lines might be more entertaining.

I wouldn't even mind if it the actives need to use sex to bridge the gap of intimacy between "spies" or feigned cohorts on a job. But the literal whoring out of these "actives" as the foundation or premise of a show is going to keep splintering off the audience because this sort of premise won't really build an audience since it's just too one-note, while being just icky at its core.

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I've read the synopsis for some upcoming eps and..

BIG SPOILER

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

So, okay, I really wasn't going to watch any more of this show, especially after lambasting the first ep on this thread. However... I kept one eye on the comments for #2, read that it was a lot better, and decided I would give it another try.

...So, holy crap, that episode *was* night-and-day so much freakin' better! I still hate the "Xander 2" lab guy (although that's the Whedon influence), but the rest was really good. I'll give it a couple more eps now, and see which of the first two they most resemble.

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I'm gonna get really tired of the other agents making fun of the agent looking for Dollhouse really fast.

also has anyone noticed the opening credits use the photography technique of making real images look like a model, like on a train set.
tilt-shift photgraphy

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I'm interested to see how the ratings are this Friday. They were down 15% for this 2nd episode, and it looks like TTSCC is going to be un-renewed and the cancelled Prison Break will be the new Dollhouse lead-in. Ouch.

If they drop this Friday, I'd say Whedon should be done with Fox. He needs a cool new idea and a new home.

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I don't see any other network even taking a shot at Firefly or Dollhouse. You never know what the guy has up his sleeve but Fox seems the only network that would be willing to even give his stuff a shot.

Of course, The CW (formerly The WB) is desperate enough that they would take anything that he gave them and I'm sure some cable channels would be interested but I'm only talking about 'real' broadcast networks.