Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › TV Programming › New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse - Page 9

post #241 of 588
3/22/09 at 7:42am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I don't think the Dollhouse offers immortality. The dolls may not remember who their implanted personalities came from, but it's completely different to "download" a consciousness like BSG's cylons or Dr. Xavier in Xmen. If that's where they are going, they haven't said it yet.

As for the rich finding the Dollhouse, I have no problem with that. The Dollhouse could just as easily find them. They are salesmen, selling fantasies. They have a very easily identified clientele. They just go to the rich and offer them access.

Similarly, I don't think the internet millionaire's wife's personality needed to be downloaded to Echo for her to fit the part. All he wanted was a doe eyed wife who was grateful to see the house he bought. He wasn't looking to replace his wife permanently. He just wanted to relive that day once a year.

They went to great pains to show that they could create a personality by merging pieces from lots of others. To me, this means they aren't simply downloading one consciousness to another body.
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Dollhouse: Season One [Blu-ray]
Dollhouse: Season 1
Dollhouse: Season 2 [Blu-ray]
post #242 of 588
3/22/09 at 4:58pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Who is the mole inside the Dollhouse? My first thought was that it must be Topher's assistant. She seems to have the technical know how to implant the message to Ballard.

But that seems almost too obvious. As I thought about it , I realized that it could be Topher himself. He has the easiest access to the equipment. His character started off being fairly sympathetic then was slowly revealed to be an amoral jerk. It would be a great twist if he turned out to be a good guy after all.

Whoever the mole is they have to be extremely careful, since if they are discovered the Dollhouse management wouldn't think twice of killing them.

This episode was by far the best of the series so far.
Reply
post #243 of 588
3/22/09 at 5:42pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
More importantly in this episode something that had previously been foggy for me was brought into stark focus...I don't like the Dollhouse, I want to see it brought down and I want Ballard to be the one to do it! Love that dude.

I finally pegged why i'm so bothered by Echo's delivery of the line "Did I fall asleep?", she says it with such a blank and innocent intonation, one that is shared by all the Actives. They trust these shady, and IMO evil, individuals who have wiped their minds, taken away their personalities and memories of a life and loved one's and it truly disgusts me. They're like children who are being led into the car of a predator with the promise of candy.

I want to weep for Sierra, she was violated in the worst way that a woman can be violated but that little shit Topher simply hit the "erase" button and now she has no memory of it, does that mean it didn't happen? To the Dollhouse it does and that's why I hate them so.

This might be the first time i've ever watched a show where I wasn't on the side of the show's titular group but rather on the side of the lone FBI agent trying to destroy it. It's akin to watching The A Team and rooting for the government to find Hannibal and bust them.

Strange position to be in as a viewer and I like it.

Now that you've reached the conclusion that you don't like the Dollhouse, can you reflect on why you struggled with it til now? What did you find likable about the Dollhouse, or what did you think the viewer was supposed to like? Everything about it is reprehensible. Aside from Boyd, the yet undisclosed mole and perhaps the doctor with the scarred face, there isn't even a character inside the Dollhouse capable of good acts.
Reply
post #244 of 588
3/22/09 at 6:06pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Watched the first few episode but that actress bothers me. She's not as hot as some people say and she's horrilbe a horrible actress. Plus, the story line is kinda stupid.
Reply
post #245 of 588
3/22/09 at 6:20pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Mr. Film, you really should watch the recent episode, since it is the first "non-network-demand" episode. It's totally different from the episodes that came before.

Quote:
This might be the first time i've ever watched a show where I wasn't on the side of the show's titular group but rather on the side of the lone FBI agent trying to destroy it.

Alias was like that (except in Alias, the lone agent on the "good guys" side was on the inside).
Reply
post #246 of 588
3/23/09 at 8:18am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

meh, it was overhyped. bought into the hype. ep didn't meet the hype. hype=.

i'll just wait til this season's over to catchup on the rest. how many eps for this s1?
Reply
post #247 of 588
3/23/09 at 8:45am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Are we supposed to be confused whether Caroline's message was real or a red herring set up by the Dollhouse PTB? Because I am, but at the same time, the show isn't really going anywhere if it's a red herring so I suppose it real. Or is it?

I'm glad I stuck with the show -- in retrospect, I can see why they took so long to really get it going, as each show set up the groundwork for blowing it all up. I just wish the second episode didn't leave such a bad taste in my mouth -- that one curdled most of my goodwill.

Now the stuff with Alpha makes more sense -- they think he's dead because the doll was killed, but Alpha is immortal because he can be downloaded into any number of dolls.

Could the big plan be to turn any number of important people into sleeper dolls? Could the Dollhouse itself be a lure for the rich and powerful to unwittingly become sleeper dolls when they meet with the Olivia Williamses of the world?
Reply
post #248 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:06am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Now the stuff with Alpha makes more sense -- they think he's dead because the doll was killed, but Alpha is immortal because he can be downloaded into any number of dolls.

Could the big plan be to turn any number of important people into sleeper dolls? Could the Dollhouse itself be a lure for the rich and powerful to unwittingly become sleeper dolls when they meet with the Olivia Williamses of the world?

Snap! That's a great angle.. Alpha could have downloaded into anyone. Kind of creepy; and a good angle with who knows who is a sleeper. That's a real turn. Maybe they are just waiting until they have sleepers in all the right locations.
Reply
post #249 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:08am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo
Now the stuff with Alpha makes more sense -- they think he's dead because the doll was killed, but Alpha is immortal because he can be downloaded into any number of dolls.

Hmmm. I thought Alpha was very much alive, but his "death" has been reinforced by the powers that be, so as maintain the illusion that they have everything under control. Alpha just happens to be in possession of all the cool traits from the various personalities he's been given - super-smart, hacking, combat skills, et cetera.

I figured that brief part of the recent episode where Topher (man, what a terrible character--something this series has in spades!) left his office was the small window were Alpha hacked the code and planted the "message" in Echo.

Who knows, though. I'm a strong "anti-Whedon," so I tend to miss this stuff in his work.
Reply
post #250 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:15am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dial
I figured that brief part of the recent episode where Topher (man, what a terrible character--something this series has in spades!) left his office was the small window were Alpha hacked the code and planted the "message" in Echo.

That does seem like the set up. The obvious culprit is Topher's assistant. Beyond that, it may be that Topher's assistant is Alpha. Beyond even that, there could be an army of Alphas, all with the same skill set but a slightly different personality wrapper to make them distinct characters.

I guess the real question is how Alpha was created. The official explanation is woefully lacking.
Reply
post #251 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:19am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

My big question is that since we are led to believe that Topher is the original mastermind of the technology (I think we've even been outright told this), why are his bosses not *the* bosses. Simply put, why does he work in the LA office, and not the "home office," for lack of a better term.

I'm sure it can be explained by "oh he likes to work on the front lines," or something like that, but it just seems odd since it was revealed there are Dollhouses around the world.
Reply
post #252 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:50am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

The hacker may not have even been physically present -- if the chair has been hacked, then perhaps the culprit just needed a few moments when Topher was not watching the drive and wouldn't notice it writing data. So, the culprit may have been anywhere, and was just watching Topher on the security camera feeds. Awfully lucky timing, but that's the nature of the secret evil culprit life.
Reply
post #253 of 588
3/23/09 at 10:52am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I forget -- why did Topher leave the office momentarily?
Reply
post #254 of 588
3/23/09 at 11:19am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi
Now that you've reached the conclusion that you don't like the Dollhouse, can you reflect on why you struggled with it til now? What did you find likable about the Dollhouse, or what did you think the viewer was supposed to like? Everything about it is reprehensible.

Well, call it me giving the show the benefit of the doubt and reserving judgment until more information came to light on the Dollhouse.

I took the stance of "the place sure SEEMS evil but the show is new, maybe something will come to light that explains the Dollhouse in a positive light."

This past ep sealed it for me, though, and there's no more doubt.
Reply
post #255 of 588
3/23/09 at 11:51am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dial

Who knows, though. I'm a strong "anti-Whedon," so I tend to miss this stuff in his work.

What does that mean?
Reply
post #256 of 588
3/23/09 at 12:09pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
My big question is that since we are led to believe that Topher is the original mastermind of the technology (I think we've even been outright told this), why are his bosses not *the* bosses. Simply put, why does he work in the LA office, and not the "home office," for lack of a better term.

I'm sure it can be explained by "oh he likes to work on the front lines," or something like that, but it just seems odd since it was revealed there are Dollhouses around the world.

Why was Jack Bauer always in LA and not DC or NY? I think he's a super genius, but I'm betting other dollhouses have people just like him. He's just a narcissist who likes to think he's the greatest, despite it being pointed out to him that there are others who understand the job. He's just the smartest in the building.
Reply
post #257 of 588
3/23/09 at 12:11pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

i just hope it doesn't dive into alias territory 2much. SD6 was one of many branches in the world and it was a front and not truly CIA. so u have a double agents running amok everywhere and u never know who2trust and where the loyalty lies.

i'd like to see the story go towards how echo is 'the one' and can see beyond all the brainwashing like neo.
Reply
post #258 of 588
3/23/09 at 2:54pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo
I forget -- why did Topher leave the office momentarily?

To talk to Echo's handler about why she was on a mission (which he didn't realize she hadn't left for yet) and he was sitting on the sidelines.
Reply
post #259 of 588
3/23/09 at 4:53pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

So... her handler distracted Topher?

Hmm....
Reply
post #260 of 588
3/23/09 at 5:19pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
The FBI and the general public apparently believe that the Dollhouse is just an urban legend. But that begs the question, how do these rich people find the Dollhouse, or even know there is something to be looking for?
The concept of secret exclusive institutions opened to a privileged few is older than the hills... and not terribly mysterious in itself. At some point a friend or acquaintance figures you are "good enough" to be in on the secret and voila. The Dollhouse is no different. Of course it is urban legend because someone always talks too much...

--
H
Reply
post #261 of 588
3/23/09 at 8:15pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
What does that mean?

It means I dislike Joss Whedon, and most of what he is attached to (Buffy, Angel, Firefly), and, as such, I might be guilty of not paying attention to the simple things on Dollhouse (though I am honestly trying to rise above my dislike of Whedon, and judge the show on its own merits).
Reply
post #262 of 588
3/24/09 at 10:03am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Then isn't all this just a big waste of time for you?
Reply
post #263 of 588
3/24/09 at 10:09am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Well, there are numerous shots of Eliza in underwear and such. So it's not a total waste of time if you like that sort of thing.
Reply
post #264 of 588
3/24/09 at 10:15am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

If that was truly the only reason to watch this show, I doubt anyone could seriously say they would watch it. I know I wouldn't watch it for that reason alone.
Reply
post #265 of 588
3/24/09 at 10:25am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
Why was Jack Bauer always in LA and not DC or NY? I think he's a super genius, but I'm betting other dollhouses have people just like him. He's just a narcissist who likes to think he's the greatest, despite it being pointed out to him that there are others who understand the job. He's just the smartest in the building.

Ahhh. See, I was under the impression Topher was literally the inventory of the technology. If he's really just the tech assigned to the LA office, then that completely answers one of my issues, thanks!
Reply
post #266 of 588
3/24/09 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
Snap! That's a great angle.. Alpha could have downloaded into anyone. Kind of creepy; and a good angle with who knows who is a sleeper. That's a real turn. Maybe they are just waiting until they have sleepers in all the right locations.

It was mentioned that selling fantasies is their business, but not their purpose. So perhaps the purpose is to turn all of their clients (ie: the rich and powerful) into sleeper dolls. Two possibilities:

1) Obviously if the dollhouses controls all of their clients they control the world. They are big-baddie evil, blah, blah. Echo, Alpha and Ballard have to save the world and we have a pretty good show.
2) What if things aren't so black and white? The dollhouse clients aren't just the rich and powerful - they are the rich and powerful who are WILLING TO SUPPORT THE EVIL PRACTICE OF TURNING PEOPLE INTO DOLLS. As was stated in the episode; all new technology will be used. What if the entire dollhouse project is to sacrifice a few "volunteers" to find out which rich and powerful individuals in the world are truly willing to use this technology for evil so that they can be eliminated? First indentify which powerful clients are evil, then kill them. This process can't be rushed because clients refer other clients. Only after identifying them all can they be killed. Afterwards the world will be ruled only by those who find the technology reprehensible. At that point they reveal it's existence and the world can be trusted not to abuse it further. This 11th hour twist would put Echo, Ballard and Alpha on the wrong side.

In other words, is the dollhouse trying to control it's clients or kill them?
Reply
post #267 of 588
3/27/09 at 8:12pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I laughed whenever Topher and Adelle climbed over the railing.
Reply
post #268 of 588
3/27/09 at 9:15pm

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Kind of a let down after setting the bar so high last week. I want more of the FBI guy investigating the Dollhouse and less of the uninteresting weekly cases.
Reply
post #269 of 588
3/28/09 at 1:00am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

Adelle was looking rather nice.

I didn't enjoy this episode as much as last week's, but based on the previews for next week, it was a necessary step.
Reply
post #270 of 588
3/28/09 at 6:21am

Re: New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse

I think it was the bridge you have to have for next week. It's now pretty clear that the Dollhouse is really a guinea pig testing station for Rossum a multi-national drug company (and other things).
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: TV Programming

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Dollhouse: Season One [Blu-ray]
Dollhouse: Season 1
Dollhouse: Season 2 [Blu-ray]
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › TV Programming › New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse