Donner Superman 2 SE (merged thread) - Page 4

Interesting. Thanks Dharmesh. Good to learn that there is some interest in a new cut - hopefully these issues will be worked through in the near future.

I completely forgot about the letter writing campaign, but it's good to know it got the WB to take notice.

Notice they said "an extended version." Obviously, an "extended" version and "Donner's cut" are two totally, completely different animals. I've never been able to understand this campaign to "restore Donner's version" because it won't ever happen -- he didn't complete his work on the movie, and it never existed in the first place!

Now, restoring scenes he DID direct (like those in the TV cut) IS a possibility -- and I'd love to see that, in addition to the longer TV versions of "Superman I" (still over 30 mins. never seen on DVD) plus III and IV (heck, why not!). The Brando footage from II in particular would be great.

But saying we'll see a full "Donner's Director's Cut" is a pipe dream. Unless Superman can turn back the clock to 1978 and have him un-fired, you'll never see it.

Well, in the last Warner chat, they asked for a thread to be started in which we could name our most requested titles. An extended/Donner Cut was I'm sure in the top three. So now we may have something. I'm not sure if this is good news or not, but I read something in the paper yesterday that is reporting that Marlon Brando is virtually a full blown pauper at this point. Maybe at this point WB can get him to sign off on his footage at a disounted cost. (Although I'm not sure of the complete specifics of what went on at the time)

I would also like to see the all footage version of S.T.M. as well

sounds optimistic to me

Sounds good to me. Thanks, Dharmesh!

It's a bit too late for that now.

Sadly so. May he rest in peace.

Not to sound like a ghoul, but I do wonder what this means as far as using Brando's footage in a new SII release.



It freaks me out a little that I wrote that yesterday and the next day he is repoted to have passed on.

Yes..

He's all over BBC News 24 at the moment.

A brilliant actor.

Years ago, a friend of mine -- who has done some work for WB -- said the only way we'd ever see the SUPERMAN II Brando footage would be "after he dies." He thought that'd be the only way all the legal issues involving his suit and such could be worked out.

Or, it could make things even more complicated as now, WB might have to deal with his heirs to get the permission.

Not sure what it says about me, but the Donner Superman II issue is the first thing I thought of when I heard about Brando's death today.

Put that on the list of ways you KNOW you're obsessed.

And when I say "you," I mean me too

A Donner supervised recut with all footage fully restored, SFX tweaked (like wire removal and optical composite cleanup & digital re-compositing) and color corrected (just like the first movie), and a kick ass remix would be ABSOLUTELY A MUST!!!!

Make it so!

Dan

I thought the exact same thing. I am guessing that we will be seeing a flood of Brando SE titles hitting the stores this X-Mas.

I was thinking the same thing. It was probably the because I had just read this thread the day before, though.

I wouldn't agree with that. It was his suit, he won it, and wanted nothing else to do with the movie. I'm not saying it will happen now, either, but they tried before and didn't get anywhere from what I heard. It will hardly be "more" complicated than trying to persuade Brando to get the footage released. We can only hope....

Hey, I noticed word that Blade Runner will finally see 2-disc special edition treatment next year (albeit much smaller than their original planned 3 disc). If I recall correctly, that was the #1 most requested special edition on Warner's official thread that was posted here some months back. And #2 on the list was Donner's restored Superman II.

Aside from Brando's death, that undoubtedly affects the completion of the cut in some respect (good or bad), now Richard Donner is in negotiations to come on as producer on the new Superman Returns film by Bryan Singer. Is it me, or is right now THE perfect time for Warner to look into setting things right putting that film back together.

I know Donner has expressed interest in doing so, and yes, I do acknowledge that some of Lester's footage may be needed. Last I checked, though, Donner's footage was used (without credit no less!!) for both Superman 2 AND 3. I'm sure they could reach some agreement with crediting Lester, and working things out with the DGA, to result in an alternate cut.

I also agree that this film is in DIRE need of more post-production. The lack of finish to the sfx is abysmal, most notably in the "chamber transformation" scene which uses a combination of cheap sketch work and recycled footage from Superman I. Anyway, for those who don't already know, there is a site that has contact info to reach Warner with your thoughts and opinions at:

http://www.theforbidden-zone.com/supermanii/index.shtml

Right now is when you to make your wishes heard. There couldn't POSSIBLY be a better time if all goes through as planned and the Donner series is used as a launching point for the new film. The special editions could be readied - a 2-disc version of the flipper SE for Superman: The Movie and another 2-disc for the restored Donner cut - to coincide with the newest entry in Summer 2006. That's a heckuva timeline, giving them plenty of space to get the ball rolling.

What do you think?

I am totally in favor of a Donner cut of S2...although I hope if it is released that they also make a cleaned-up/restored the theatrical cut available. And while I am on that, I would LOVE, and I mean LOVE it if they would make the theatrical cut of Superman: The Movie available. I watched these films more than anything else when I was growing up and while I like the SE of Superman: TM, I still wish I had the theatrical on DVD (though I do have the LD).

Anyways, I would buy S2: Donner Cut on release day. No question about it. Oh, and WB, I would also buy a cleaned-up/enhanced theatrical cut of the film as well...and I would DEFINITELY buy the theatrical version of the original Superman!!!

Bring on Superman 2: The Donner Cut

I would cut off my left *** to see this and of course the Deleted Scenes to Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

"I would cut off my left *** to see this."

Your left ear? Then you'd lose the new 5.1 mix.

n/m

I'd even like to see the extended cut of Superman IV.

And a cut of Superman III that takes out all the Richard Pryor and other goofy crap. It would probably be less than an hour long.

Been holding off on watching it again and doing the chapter skip thing. I love the evil Superman stuff and the Lana relationship.

I too would buy a extended cut of S2 ...Shit i'd camp out overnight to get the first one out of the box !...But even more i'd love to see WHAT improvements they could possibly make on S4 ( I know it was longer ) but good god man what a mess !! I got to see a print of it screened (the 90 minute version )at the theater that i ran a few years ago. Having vowed never to see it knowing it was awful ..and it truely was ....but i am open to see a longer cut because of the Saulkinds stupidity and i know there has to be a movie in there somewhere....maybe ?

The longer cut of Superman IV was something like 132 minutes and many scenes were cut that would have made the movie better if they were left in.

Has anyone addressed a compromise, such as an extensive documentary? I would absolutely love a "Battle of Brazil" type documentary that discussed the issues around the change in directors and break down which parts of the film were done or not, showing some of the scenes from Donner's work without recutting the entire movie.

As Mike Richardson pointed out, Donner didn't finish his version and much of what he shot wouldn't make sense if plugged back in among Lester material. For instance, he had Lois jump out the window of the Planet instead of at Niagara Falls, but probably didn't finish shooting all the related material. Can't have her jump out the window but land in the water or whatever.

Mind you, like you guys, I'd love to see all of Donner's footage, and a new cut incorporating as much as possible would be great, but I wonder if the existing version has already utilized about as much as it could and still make sense. I'd love to be wrong, though. That documentary idea would be a great alternative.

A pal of mine was life-long friends with a stunt coordinator on Superman II (Lester's unit), and according to him, the Donner material was almost completely useless once they got to post -- and there certainly is not enough material to justify a new cut with Donner's name on it. According to him, little or nothing was shot with Reeves or Kidder, so we know for certain that the film was less than half completed, not "70% in the can" as Donner stated.

I mentioned this thread to my friend, and he was of the opinion that all of you guys are waiting in vain. His friend being the stunt coordinator (and seeing as much of Donner's footage was supposedly action footage) I would think this guy knew a little about what was going on, but it is third-hand knowledge, so who knows.

Does anyone know if Lester himself (or anyone involved in Superman II other than Donner) has stated, for the record, how much footage Donner filmed? So far I've only seen Donner quoted...

This is untrue. Much of what Donner claims has been confirmed by the cast, behind-the-scenes video/pictures including in tons of Superman merchandise (including the recent DVD), photos of Brando's scenes with Reeves have turned up (including on Saturday Night Live of all places), and there are even websites with the vast majority of the original Daily Planet "jumping" scene with Margo Kidder reconstructed with photos.... INCLUDING shots of her stunt double doing the action. No offense, but your friend is incorrect.

Not to mention that the Tower of Piza sequence was then used in Superman III with a different context...



There was a massive article about it back in 1982 or so, with most quotes coming from Margo Kidder, including word that the original version of the identity revelation scene with the gun was shot. Since then a lot of odds and ends popped up and has been covered elsewhere, but the remainder of what is and isn't currently in existence only be proved once someone goes into the vaults and hauls it all out.

The only reason Lester couldn't use more footage than they were allowed was because the DGA limited the amount of Donner footage that could be used without due credit, payment, etc. That's why there were forced to reshoot a lot of it... and it's also quite possible that the story they perpetuated on the set amongst their current crew was THEIR version of the truth. I'll try and find the webpages that carry a lot of the evidence and post it when I can. I'm in another town right now so I don't have access to my favorite places list. Sorry.