Donner Superman 2 SE (merged thread) - Page 15

It seems as if one's affection for Superman III may depend on at what point in your life you saw it. If you saw it as a kid, it was probably very pleasing and you probably like it somewhat to this day. If you saw it later in life, you probabaly don't like it as much. I saw it as a kid, so I have still have some affection for it. What kid watching that movie didn't dream he could be at the seat of that giant computer?

I of course, like many, loved Superman II as a kid, but I think that in my adult years, a lot of things don't hold up well. Maybe part of that stems from the fact that I now know the story behind the film, but under an adult eye, there are very obvious flaws.

I saw Superman III as a kid too and it contributed to my interest in computers. I was amazed. Not long after I had my first IBM PC, taught myself programming, and later in life computers became very important in my work.

Terrific news! I've been wanting to see Donnor's version for a while now.

You guys really need to stop using this as an excuse, because it's the same denegrating manner that filmmakers of the 70's and 80's used when they disrespected material.

The fact that those involved creatively chose to pull away from keeping Superman as the main character (Gus drives the plot his story is the focus) was a deliberate effort by Lester to work around what he felt was an uninteresting and alienating fantasy character.

This is not the way people wrote comic books (at least before the mid 80's deconstructionist period) and the poor quality of editing and movement within the frame relays their misunderstanding of comic book panel form. As a rationalization, "it's a comic book" is a lazy generalization that allows those who adapt and translate characters to the screen to avoid responsibility for their inability to reach higher standards within this genre. Has Donner, Singer and Raimi taught us nothing?

On the professional side, they took the Superman franchise and altered it to create a starring vehicle for Richard Pryor. Now maybe some of us are Richard Pryor fans and enjoy this change of pace, but I don't think that changes how far they have actually gone from a "comic book". I don't know, maybe I missed the DC 'The Adventures of Gus Gorman, Super Hacker' series as I was too young for comics then.



Or we've grown up enough to acknowledge that box office facts does not prove anything in terms of quality or longterm criticism. Some years back I used to write comic book movie columns and I can't tell you how many times someone tried to school me on how Batman & Robin was one of the highest grossing comic book movies of all time ($117 million). I don't think you have to look very hard at the reactions following Superman III to be able to tell something was wrong with the franchise.

Another reason I want to see a Donner cut is that some of the most embarrasing post-production errors could be fixed or dropped entirely. Among these, I would love to see:

1) the Lester version of the transformation scene with recycled Superman I footage replaced (Donner's orignal scene will suffice)
2) the manhole cover air pipes finally painted out (how hard is that???)
3) the color timing redone properly on major sfx driven sequences (the backgrounds for the Metropolis and Moon scenes especially)
4) replace the obviously inanimate rear projection plates (if that Washington footage is used)
5) the credits, obviously (with Donner's name included)
6) a better score

Hell, if they do some of this for the Donner version, why not the Lester cut too? I doubt even he would oppose that. It can't hurt to throw pennies into a wishing well (in this case, HTF).



Why does everyone keep responding here as if someone has seriously considered it? Even if nothing else happens with the upcoming box set, an improved transfer of the theatrical cut of Superman 2 is a given.

I agree with you, Drew. Even as a kid, I didn't like Superman III or IV. The "it's a comic book movie" line just doesn't cut it or justify it in regards to the quality of the material. And we all know box office is NO indication of quality. It was 12th overall for 1983 with Mr. Mom beating it. Hardly a "huge" hit.

Superman III and IV are bad movies for me. Period.

SUPERMAN III, for all its atrocities, does have one bit that I always quite liked...the Evil Superman. It adds some >desperately< needed edge.

And, I actually kind of liked SUPERMAN IV ok, even the moon battle with Nuclear Man...cheezy, but fun on a low-budget Godzilla level. However, whosever idea it was to write in a lame nephew for Luthor deserves a Super-Right-Hook to the jaw...poor Jon Cryer, an actor I really like, but boy, was this a terrible role.

I'd love to see the long cut of IV, and I hope it turns up at some point.

The graphic readouts of the "game" were by Atari, a Warner company at the time.

To give Superman III some more credit, it did inspire an important plot element in Office Space.

Wow. Old Thread Resurrected from 2001!

I would like to see as much deleted scenes as possible. SII is as much a historical movie as S1 was since they were both mostly shot at the same time.

I don't need a re-cut, re-imagined, etc., movie. Just give me a high quality original. If Warner chooses to modify the original, at least include it. That's what DVDs are for! That's why seamless branching was invented!

And III and IV are unwatchable in my book. I never felt that they had a quality feel to them. They were tired copies of the first two.

Same here. I was eleven when Superman III came out and I was terribly disappointed thinking how much better the first two movies were.

Seamless branching won't work, I'm afraid. It's going to have to be a seperate cut entirely.



I hadn't seen III in about 15 years when I popped it into the player in the last year. My friends didn't believe me when I described the movie, so I had to prove to them that such mindlessness existed. Another friend of mine has had to do the same, and frequently uses his position at FYE to show people the trailer and astound them.

I really don't believe that most mainstream audiences even remember anything of the series past II.

The notion of Kryptonians not needing air in space or on the Moon and being able to talk to each other on the Moon in the vacuum of space was in Donner's footage of Superman II, I gather. This is one area where Donner was not exactly going for verismimilitude, unless there is an explanation within the mythology of Superman as to how Kryptonians can survive in a vacuum.

Leaving this aside, if Superman II is to be recut, some work is needed to the scene wherein Ursa and Non grab Superman before Ursa hits Superman with a flagpole. The wires are clearly seen on Jack O'Hallaran. And when Superman punches Non beneath the street and sends Non careening through a building, the backpack or whatever it is on Non's back could be painted out.

Well, uh, they can hold their breath for a very, very long time and I guess their aura protects them from the possible space hazzards. :b

It would be nice if they got Annette O'Toole to talk about Superman III and the mytholgy in general since she's obviously part of the Smallville cast.

verismilitude = respect of the material

In DC comics, people like Superman *can* exist in a vacuum. Kryptonians can also fly and shoot heat rays from their eyes, and Donner used those powers so we can't fault the logic because we choose to stop buying it for this. (Note: Superman used to be able to produce far more mindless powers that DC editorial wiseless restricted from consistently appearing)

We can't fault him for sticking to the reality of the world he is adapting (possibly when stretched?), but I do fault Lester for arbitrarily adding that Superman can use telekinesis and teleportation but chooses not to (because he's not *evil*). If that's not a textbook against "verismilitude", I don't know what is.



That would be cool, though I would argue that while they're at it they should throw in interviews with Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeve (archived of course) on the same subject. Hmm, yeah, that would be neat.

See, that's not how I thought of Donner using verisimilitude at all (since it's not the definition). I thought he was trying to create a real, rounded world. Where it just happened Superman could fly.

And he did.

I just broke down what he/they said to it's essentials. If they didn't care and treat the adaptation as real (which I read as respect), then it would have been false to an audience.

This from thedigitalbits.com

Also today, there are online reports from various Superman-themed websites (including Superman Cinema) that Warner Bros. and producer Ilya Salkind have finally negotiated a deal for the release of director Richard Donner's original unused footage from Superman II. This would allow for the creation of a long-awaited Superman II: Director's Cut that would be closer to the film Donner was crafting before the film was taken away from him by the studio back in 1979 and given to replacement director Richard Lester. Donner, as many of you know, also directed the original Superman: The Movie (the two films were shot, for the most part, simultaneously). The idea behind all of this, of course, is that Warner wants to release new DVD special editions of Superman II, Superman III and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace in conjunction with the theatrical or DVD debut of Bryan Singer's currently in production Superman Returns. The new film is expected to hit theaters in June 2006.

Superman (and other Kryptonians) surviving in space is a given. True, the talking makes no sense unless we as the audience are just treated to hearing their thoughts. Superman had been shown to possess some telepathic abilities with some creatures in the comics.

I can watch Superman III only if I skip through all the Richard Pryor scenes. The evil Superman stuff, and all the Smallville moments are great; the rest is crap.

Superman IV has problems, but I still enjoy it. Great comedic work by Reeve that's in the spirit of moments I read in my mom's comics as a kid. Maybe more like some of the quick changes Superboy had to do actually. And some great Superman comic moments like plugging the volcano with a mountain top--lifted right out of the comic pages once again. Even his heroics while injured and near-death are still pretty powerful even if his recovery is telegraphed rather obviously at the beginning of the film. That movie could be salvaged with some effort. It's the SW: Episode I of the Superman films.

Personally, the Smallville stuff bored me as much as the rest of the movie when I was a kid, but somehow that "evil Superman" scene is still fun to watch because Reeve is so good in it.



One of the insurmountable problems was all the cheap short cuts they took with the post-production sfx and cutting, due to the budget deflation mid-production. It would be enough of a miracle just to see Warner make the original full length cut available, but there's no way they're going to put that film through post-production again.

Well Fox did a few effects tweaks for the Alien 3 extended cut on the box set, so you never know...

A one man rendition of Superman II sure would have been a sight to see. Too bad I didn't know about it sooner since Chino is only about 10 miles from here.

I would sell all my DVDs to own this one, this is truly the Holy Grail of Special Director Editions. Anyone who knows anything about the history of Superman II (and if you don't, go to the Superman Cinema website, they have great info there) and loves Donner's original Superman would file in lines around the block to own this the minute its available. Warners, you're sitting on a gold mine, specially with all the attention the new Superman Returns is bringing to Donner's original vision by using it as a springboard. If you're concerned about general public awareness, do a media blitz, have Singer out talking about it, please you must do this!

Alex

Found this on Dharmesh's site:

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/dail...ws/index.shtml


I'm sure that they can clean up the Production sound to a degree with Noise Reduction software these days, but one can only hope that they keep searching for the looped audio tracks.

They were already applied to an assembly cut of the film which the Salkind company used for the TV versions.

The special effects test for Superman II on the Roy Field documentary (where Brando says "The virtual spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what is being done is right.") is looped, though, isn't it?