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Donner Superman 2 SE (merged thread)

post #1 of 2287
11/27/01 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
As of now it looks like people's passion for Superman 2 SE from Richard Donner is paying off! The digital bits have posted in the rumor section that the WB are considering it for late 2002 DVD Release, only a rumor but "BOY WHAT A RUMOR!!!!"

Looks like everyone here who posts about the movie should pat themselves on the back? Being positive is a good thing. I while ago i put some ideas down for extras on the DVD on the "Studio and Manufacturer feedback forum" If the WB is listening want do you want on the DVD!
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post #2 of 2287
11/27/01 at 11:15am
Could you provide a link? I just checked the Digital Bits and could find no such information.
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post #3 of 2287
11/27/01 at 11:38am
Don't get your hopes up (legal problems will probably kill ANY chance of a full "Donner's Superman II" from being completed). The Bits' Rumor page says only the following (and it's a posting from 10/19, anyway):

Quote:
For late 2002 and beyond, the following titles are under consideration: A Night in Casablanca, The Loved One, Brewster McCloud, Soylent Green, Twilight Zone: The Movie, Best Friends and special editions of Forbidden Planet, Blazing Saddles, Logan's Run, Superman II and Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
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post #4 of 2287
11/27/01 at 11:51am
A special edition of Superman II does not necessarily equate to a Donner re-cut. I'm not sure a true workable Donner re-cut would even be possible given that there were necessary parts of the film that were never shot by him and the Lester footage would not necessarily match his intent for all of that.

It would be nice if they included deleted scenes and used branching to give us an approximation of what it would have been like, though. They could use title cards to fill in the gaps where no footage exists.

Regards,
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post #5 of 2287
11/27/01 at 11:54am
[size=]If Donner footage is included, either in the film or as deleted scenes, I would pick this up in an instant and sell my old one on Ebay.[/size]
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post #6 of 2287
11/27/01 at 12:19pm
This was brought up in the HTF chat with Warner which is archived here:

Quote:
QUESTION: Is there any interest in releasing Superman II in the form of a
Richard Donner re-cut, or at the very least, a Special Edition where Donner's
cut scenes can be shown in a deleted scenes section? Donner has expressed
interest in re-cutting the film in various interviews, most recently in a July
issue of EW where he stated he would like to be able to show people what
they could have gotten. If it is not possible to get Donner's participation,
would Warner Brothers be interested in doing it without his participation?
Many great scenes directed by Richard Donner are collecting dust in a vault
somewhere, scenes that would make Superman II a much superior film. A
Richard Donner Superman II is the Holy Grail for fans of the Superman films.
Has anything been discussed at all regarding Superman II?

Warner: This has been discussed. It would be very costly and time-consuming.
We would prefer not to do anything without Richard Donner's participation, and
perhaps even Richard Lester's partcipation. So it isn't easily answered just now,
but we understand the interest


I doubt this will ever come to fruition, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Even if all of the Donner footage is incorporated back into the film, at least I would still have the theatrical presentation on the current DVD.
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post #7 of 2287
11/27/01 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
Don't rule out re-cuts? they usually can't beat the original but the Star Trek: TPM is fantastic on my Dolby pro logic set up sound and picture!

If the WB are making a Special edition is anyone here going to say no? 5.1 widescreen with re-mastered picture on DVD with the deleted scenes from Donner version either put back seamlessly or in a deleted scenes section, is what we can hope for the most!

By the way hang on to your Lester version? it will still go up in value if you keep it when or if a new Superman 2 movie comes out!
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post #8 of 2287
11/27/01 at 12:38pm
Quote:
If the WB are making a Special edition is anyone here going to say no?
You weren't here for the howls of protest that greeted the recut, remixed Superman I.

If the second film is reedited or remixed in any way, you can assume that at least some of the fans will be lining up to protest the desecration.

M.
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post #9 of 2287
11/27/01 at 1:05pm
The extended cut of Superman 1 isn't that bad!!!


Why do some people complain so much about it?


What happened with part 2 is just horrible,that i would LOVE to see Donners footage,either in a deleted scenes section or seamlessly branched(so both cuts are included) & see how the film is with his footage. Sure both director's scenes may be easy to tell apart & might make the movie somewhat disjointed. But at least we would be able to get a glimpse of what the original cut was supposed to be like.
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post #10 of 2287
11/27/01 at 1:17pm
Quote:
The extended cut of Superman 1 isn't that bad!!! Why do some people complain so much about it?

It's a matter of taste. Some people simply prefer the original version. Others just don't like the idea of fiddling with movies years after the fact. I, personally, fall into the second category.

As for Superman II, I'm all for seeing a Donner re-cut. Since the original version is already available on DVD, everybody wins. This is the main problem that most had with Superman. The modified version was released on DVD, but not the originaol.
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post #11 of 2287
11/27/01 at 1:30pm
[size=]
Quote:
You weren't here for the howls of protest that greeted the recut, remixed Superman I.
That was because there was no option to view the original cut with the original soundtrack. They could easily have done this through seamless branching. Also, the remixed audio could have been the 5.1 DD track, and the original sound track could have been a 2.0 surround track. We already have the original Superman II on shelves now. Besides, Superman I was developed under completely different cirumstances. If they tried to have Donner recut Superman III, I'd be the first one protesting (I doubt Donner could save that piece of shit anyway, but that IS Lester's film). It's Donner's extensive involvement that spurred this whole thing.[/size]
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post #12 of 2287
11/27/01 at 2:09pm
They could pull a Star Trek and use CG to recreate how Donner imagined the scenes. Most of what wasn't shot was action, not dialogue

Jeff Kleist
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post #13 of 2287
11/27/01 at 5:00pm
I'm pretty happy with the recut of Superman for the most part. I especially like the scenes of Superman making his way to Luthor's lair, that was classsic superman stuff, can't believe it was cut in the first place, it looks brilliant. I guess I wasn't worried about not having the original because I have the laserdisc. Still, might have been nice to have the original in a seemless branching mode. What bugs me is that I thought I was going to be able to switch to the music only track and avoide that crappy "read my mind sequence" but alas, the voice over appears on the music only track as well. Oh well, was a good idea while it lasted.


I'd like to see a SE of Superman II done in the same fashion as the abyss dvd, with seemless branching and tons of extras.
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post #14 of 2287
11/27/01 at 6:12pm
Quote:
I'd like to see a SE of Superman II done in the same fashion as the abyss dvd, with seemless branching and tons of extras.

That would be fantastic! I only wish that that is the way it will be released someday. I used to like "Superman II" so much when I was younger. Now, I put almost on par with parts III and IV. The only thing that separates it from those other two are the fantastic villans. I'm dying to see Dick Donner's version of the film.
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post #15 of 2287
11/27/01 at 8:33pm
Thread Starter 
We're all dying to see a Donner re-cut! Nice to see you on this post Jeff (again we on the same subject)

Retro vision magazine issue 8# had Tom Mankiewicz talking of the most talked about famous cut S2 scene, with Jor-el and Clark being the most chilling scene ever seen!
With that in mind, too bad about those who would complain?redited movies are much better than remakes who's has been counting the remakes of popular movies this year! Has Hollywood lost it! haven't they got imaginations.

People bitch about "Star Wars SE trilogy" and maybe even "Superman SE" "Army of Darkness" with the Apocalpse ending "Apocalpse Now redux" and colourize old black and white movies of the 40's and 50's
Better to have deleted footage in archive section on DVD than, no footage?

Everyone can be cynical, but i rather be positive and give support of movies that can be greater when they get a second chance? how many of you have enjoyed Spartacus on DVD second time round? or seen such hits on DVD like Aliens Director's cut or The Abyss SE, Terminator 2 SE, Blade Runner the list goes on? we all are cynical about things at first! but we should remain open minded!
In time maybe "Superman 2 Donner Director's cut" will be all the rage!

Hopefully
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post #16 of 2287
11/28/01 at 6:38am
i think that after all these years, with all the films history, it should be re-released as a special edition with tons of extras.
i don't think lester or donner wants to do it, but i can't speak for them.
i just hope WB give this the green cut, i mean the green light.

yaniv
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post #17 of 2287
4/22/03 at 5:58pm
I want it so badly. Getting the restored cut now next month hopefully on DVD. Have it on VHS. It's WAY better. They can easily do it. It WOULD make money. I think this would be IDEAL.

Superman II: The Adventure Continues DVD Dics 1:
A remasted version of SII. Lesters version.
Making of.
Lester Deleted Scenes.
Lester Commentry.
Reeve Commentry.
Photo Gallery.

Superman II: The Adventure Continues DVD Dics 2:
Remastered version of SII. Donners version. finish it with CGI.
Making Of.
Deleted scene.
John Williams score.
Donner, Reeve and Manky Commentry.
Isolated Score.
(I wish the showed Williams SII without the music and he does it like he would have done it. I'd say he forgets half of what Thorne did to his magnificant score so it would be easier to do instead of copying it.

Thats my dream. Now, SIV is a completely different matter. Same with that only the completely did the movie up with CGI making it look at least in the slight bit real. Make his suit proper blue instead of the dark blue we get. Make us believe he could fly in that movie.
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post #18 of 2287
4/22/03 at 6:00pm
Wow, what a bump....
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post #19 of 2287
4/22/03 at 7:13pm
Why is it that the isolated score and the soundtrack (at least my copy of the soundtrack) ALL have the "Can You Read My Mind?" dialogue? That is the single most embarrassing scene in the entire film, all because of the dialogue, and to be unable to avoid it even in an isolated score or a soundtrack album that otherwise features no dialogue from the film... what is the reason for this? Ayyone have any ideas?
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post #20 of 2287
4/22/03 at 11:31pm
A bump indeed. I think it will be fair to everyone if I move this to Software to get some better discussion.

Hang tight everyone...
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post #21 of 2287
4/23/03 at 12:13am
for this to get off the ground now, it sounds like the ball is very much in Donners court.
WB seems, from the past several chats, to be up for it.

i think Donner needs to be presented with a tape (unscored) of all of his scenes from the theatrical cut w/ Lesters excised, along with a summarized index of all the raw footage that was found recently.

give him the option of - look everything over, everything that is available to use, everything that was shot by you, and come up with some brief ideas to bridge the excised/missing footage and see if they can come up with a budget for these new scenes to be recomposited or digitally manipulated from existing raw/unused footage.
there have to be plenty of unused blue screen footage that can be composited with new background plates.
longshots could be cgi manipulations of existing figures recomposited into new backgrounds also.
then ask Williams if he wants the opportunity to score this special project.



if i was a director, a project like this might be kind of fun-as long as you has the option of not going thru with it, if you don't think the end product will justify the effort,


just a thought.
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post #22 of 2287
4/23/03 at 1:21am
Quote:
Why is it that the isolated score and the soundtrack (at least my copy of the soundtrack) ALL have the "Can You Read My Mind?" dialogue? That is the single most embarrassing scene in the entire film, all because of the dialogue, and to be unable to avoid it even in an isolated score or a soundtrack album that otherwise features no dialogue from the film... what is the reason for this? Ayyone have any ideas?


If you buy the expanded Rhino set, you can listen to the dialogue free version, which is fantastic. I don't mind the dialogue...I am die hard fan of the film
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post #23 of 2287
4/23/03 at 2:17am
Quite honestly, I'd give my left hand* up to see Donner's Superman II cut. I LOVED the first movie, enjoyed the original cut of S2, but would sincerely enjoy to see Mr. Donner's original movie... EVEN if it was just in a supplimental section and not included in the original film.

( *actually, I'd give my left something else, but let's keep this appropriate... with this star, everyone knows what I mean... come on Warner... we want to see these scenes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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post #24 of 2287
4/23/03 at 5:35am
I would also love an SE version of this film. There are so many different extras and deleted scenes they could add to this release. After watching the SE version of the first film you put this on and get the very plain transfer and dolby 2 channel sound and you have to switch it off - no comparison.

BTW, bumping this thread from Nov 2001 to Apr 2003 has got to be some kind of record!! But i'm sure glad it got bumped.

:b
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post #25 of 2287
4/23/03 at 6:24am
Can someone tell me what differences would their have been between Donners & Lesters version of Supes 2??
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post #26 of 2287
4/23/03 at 7:01am
Competent shooting, better characterization, Marlon Brando instead of Supes' mom, lots of stuff. Do a search for "Superman Cinema" they have a synopsys
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post #27 of 2287
4/23/03 at 7:09am
Isn't Brando supposedly broke now? If that's the case, maybe now is the time to negotiate with him to finally reveal the Superman II footage of Jor-El.

Neil
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post #28 of 2287
4/23/03 at 7:20am
Quote:
Marlon Brando instead of Supes' mom


This didn't have as much to do with Donner's Version Vs. Lester's Version as it simply did Brando being irate at the Salkinds for breach of contract. Unless they work it out with Brando (who's rumored to be close to death every other week), that likely won't be a part of any "Donner Re-Cut."

IMHO, while I'd LOVE to see Donner's scenes and other deleted footage from II (which have popped up on TV versions worldwide), even Chris Reeve said much of the reason why II worked so well was because of how Lester righted the ship. I think the movie is terrific as is, so seeing the scenes as a supplement would be preferrable to recutting the film and (ugh) adding CGI for me.
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post #29 of 2287
4/23/03 at 7:58am
Todd, visit my site, www.supermancinema.net for everything on the Donner vision.

I think Chris Reeve was being professional, in my view, Lester was not a leader, from artistic POV, Superman 2 is a mess - from the different writing styles to the mismatched photography.

I rather have ALL the Donner footage as a supplement, not a recut, which would require lots of money, and I don't think WB will want to commit millions. Just being realist.
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post #30 of 2287
4/23/03 at 10:54am
I'd love to have Donner's vision of Superman 2, but you know what else I'd like? The old ABC extended versions of Superman 2 and 3 that I have on an old VHS tape. There is really a lot of good stuff on there that isn't on the theatrical cuts, so when I watch parts 2 and 3 dvd's, I'm always aware of what I'm missing from growing up watching my old ABC vhs copies. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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