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More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

post #1 of 14
10/17/07 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
I have been adding some HD-releases to our database (in Rewind), and I noticed (mainly based on the high-def digest reviews) that several HD DVD-releases from Warner are now using 640 kbps DD+ (not 1.5 Mbps). E.g. "Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season", "Gods and Generals", "Wyatt Earp", "Alexander Revisited", "The Wild Bunch", "Deliverance"...

I wonder what is the reason (I assume that these reviews are correct)?

(How do you "confirm" the audio bitrate with Toshiba´s players anyway?)
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post #2 of 14
10/17/07 at 12:52pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
I have been adding some HD-releases to our database (in Rewind), and I noticed (mainly based on the high-def digest reviews) that several HD DVD-releases from Warner are now using 640 kbps DD+ (not 1.5 Mbps). E.g. "Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season", "Gods and Generals", "Wyatt Earp", "Alexander Revisited", "The Wild Bunch", "Deliverance"...

I wonder what is the reason (I assume that these reviews are correct)?

(How do you "confirm" the audio bitrate with Toshiba´s players anyway?)

Nothing new here. Warner has, for the most part, always used 640 for DD+ on HD-DVD and 640 for DD on BD. This has been their pattern so far. They either use DD+ at 640 or 16-bit Dolby True HD for HD-DVD. As for the reason, you would have to ask one of their reps that question.
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post #3 of 14
10/17/07 at 1:02pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

It's definitely disheartening, except in cases where it's an older film that wouldn't benfit much (like Wild Bunch and Deliverance). For any semi-modern movie, there really is no excuse not to use 1.5 Mbps if not TrueHD.
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post #4 of 14
10/17/07 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
Nothing new here. Warner has, for the most part, always used 640 for DD+ on HD-DVD and 640 for DD on BD. This has been their pattern so far..

Ah, ok. You may be right. I guess I kinda thought that basically all DD+ tracks on HD DVD are actually 1.5 Mbps.

So how the reviewers are confirming the audio bitrate with HD DVD? I mean since Toshiba doesn´t show it like e.g. PS3 does. Just wondering.
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post #5 of 14
10/17/07 at 3:33pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Ah, ok. You may be right. I guess I kinda thought that basically all DD+ tracks on HD DVD are actually 1.5 Mbps.

So how the reviewers are confirming the audio bitrate with HD DVD? I mean since Toshiba doesn´t show it like e.g. PS3 does. Just wondering.
I think they are using Power DVD. Luckily, Warner is pretty much the only studio using 640.
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post #6 of 14
10/17/07 at 6:09pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
So how the reviewers are confirming the audio bitrate with HD DVD?
Ha, ha, ha! Good one, Jari.

Yes, you have to read it somewhere on a display or else your ears may not tell you! Terrible if you can't read it anywhere!


Cees
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post #7 of 14
10/17/07 at 11:09pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Didn't Warner use low bitrate for standard dvds as well? Whats up with them?
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post #8 of 14
10/17/07 at 11:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Ha, ha, ha! Good one, Jari.

Yes, you have to read it somewhere on a display or else your ears may not tell you! Terrible if you can't read it anywhere!


Cees

You keep on pushing Cees.. You push too many times.......

Seriously, we all (well, most of us) know, that sometimes the "differences" between e.g. DD vs DTS (SD DVDs) can vary. Many times DTS has the edge, sometimes they´re pretty much equal and sometimes DD can have the edge. I believe it´s a similar thing with 640kbps vs 1.5mbps, 1.5mbps vs lossless, etc.

It´s true that you have to listen the each track, "each case" when it comes to audio/transfer - bitrate alone doesn´t tell much, but personally I would like to "confirm" the audio bitrate from the player. With Toshiba, I can´t do that now.

Don´t confuse the "listening the audio and enjoying the movie" to "confirming the audio/video bitrate specs", Cees. I fully agree, that e.g. 640kbps track in many cases is probably pretty much identical to 1.5mbps and same thing with 1.5mbps vs lossless. BUT - in some cases that´s not the case, I´m sure. At least I don´t want to "guess" what is the real bitrate if I´m doing e.g. review or something like that.

Btw. E.g. "Nip/Tuck: The Complete Fourth Season" has 1.5mbps DD+ on HD DVD ( http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/niptuck_s4.html ), so I guess Warner is using it from time to time..
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post #9 of 14
10/18/07 at 10:42am

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K

Btw. E.g. "Nip/Tuck: The Complete Fourth Season" has 1.5mbps DD+ on HD DVD ( http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/niptuck_s4.html ), so I guess Warner is using it from time to time..

Thanks for the link Jari.

Let's hope this becomes the trend at WHV, especially with newer fare which might have a chance to benefit from it.

In the end, I still believe that WHV is doing more for HD on disc than any other exclusive HD/BD studio. If you want a studio with problems, turn to Paramount, now they have SERIOUS problems.
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post #10 of 14
10/18/07 at 1:11pm
Thread Starter 

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
In the end, I still believe that WHV is doing more for HD on disc than any other exclusive HD/BD studio..

I agree Reggie. If it comes to that, I´ll take great selection of titles (also "classics") and extras over 1.5mbps DD+ anyday..

But of course, if DD+ can go to 1.5mbps, why not use it? Perhaps Warner just want to keep things "equal" with both HD-formats and they feel that you don´t gain that much with 1.5mbps (vs 640kbps).
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post #11 of 14
10/18/07 at 3:24pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW
Didn't Warner use low bitrate for standard dvds as well? Whats up with them?

I think its likely that Warner was simply using the Dolby encode created for the theaters which was 320kbps, rather than creating a new 448kbps encode for DVD.

Doug
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post #12 of 14
10/18/07 at 7:16pm

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I think its likely that Warner was simply using the Dolby encode created for the theaters which was 320kbps, rather than creating a new 448kbps encode for DVD.

Doug
Their standard DVDs use 384kbps. Warner just doesn't seem to be as concerned about audio quality as most other studios.
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post #13 of 14
10/19/07 at 1:57am

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Warner just doesn't seem to be as concerned about audio quality as most other studios.
They did extensive tests. We may not like all their conclusions, but it's not fair to state they are "not concerned".

Some studios came to different conclusions, some others didn't go through the same decision processes and/or took the easy and more popular route, regarding possible critique: dumping big (sometimes redundant, or even uncompressed) tracks on the discs.

Some of us may like that (and for the time being it's a comfortable solution), but that still doesn't make Warner less concerned, IMO!


Cees
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post #14 of 14
10/21/07 at 7:22am

Re: More recent HD DVDs from Warner - DD+ 640 kbps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
They did extensive tests. We may not like all their conclusions, but it's not fair to state they are "not concerned".

I didn't say they were "not concerned". I said they weren't "as concerned" about sound quality. They may have done plenty of tests, but the bottom line is that none of those 640kbps titles get stellar reviews for sound quality. Granted they do have titles like Batman Begins and 300 which sound amazing, but as a whole, I think sound quality takes a back seat at Warner.

Quote:
Some studios came to different conclusions, some others didn't go through the same decision processes and/or took the easy and more popular route, regarding possible critique: dumping big (sometimes redundant, or even uncompressed) tracks on the discs.
I don't understand why a studio should be criticized for using space-hogging PCM if that space would be unused anyway. I think it's far more fair to criticize Warner for releasing titles like Syriana at 22GB with plenty of empty space for lossless. While I have no problem with Dolby TrueHD, I'll take space-hogging PCM over 640+ gigs of empty space any day of the week. It would be one thing if they were pushing the capacity and elected to use the bits elsewhere.
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