Journeyman - season 1 thread - Page 12

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Or he'll definitely know, then Dan will put right what he screwed up on this episode and change the time line again.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Nope. They will all send data about pay-per-view selections and the like, but not routine viewing information. TiVO partnered with Neilsen to collect some information (out to 7 days, not just 3, after recording) but not from everyone. They invited a geographically and demographically weighted sample to volunteer to be monitored and once they filled-up the requisite slots they stopped. (Presumably they, like Neilsen, periodically move people in and out of the sample to keep things balanced and bring in new eyes.) There may be similar programs via cable and satellite providers, but I'm not familiar with them. But it has never been the case that all DVRs routinely collected and transmitted viewing and/or playback data.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

That's exactly what they were doing. It wasn't a weak gambit for me, though. It was a wrenching bit of drama. It's scary enough for them for Dan to be doing this, but their son?

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

If the son really started bouncing around time and space, for me, that would be the "time-jump the shark" moment of this show so far.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I thought the bigger 'unintended consequence' was to do with Jack, where before putting the creep away, Jack was starting to believe Dan's time-travel story, but with the creep taken out of the equation, none of the 'talk' ever took place. As a result, Jack really thinks Dan is going insane, and threatens to have him held.

Having said that, two things are unclear to me: had Dan told Jack about his time travelling (in full, not just hints) prior to this episode? I don't recall him doing so, yet even in this episode we didn't see such a detailed conversation (just the discussion on the $20, where Jack is surprised that Dan knows the complaint came from a cabbie), nor was it hinted at. And the other is that in any case, even if the discussion on the $20 didn't take place once the creep was jailed, Dan can always talk about it with Jack again, since that event hasn't been changed.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I don't understand how someone could be "put away" for saying they go back in time. I am sure the laws require someone to be a risk to themselves or others before something as drastic as forcibly put in a hospital can be done. That is just poor writing to create tension.

There are lots of people with strange beliefs. They are not all being sent to the loony bin.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

It's not poor writing. In fact, it's quite believable for Jack, as a Police Officer, to code his brother as mentally ill, and a danger to others (which is what the 51/50 code is for). Not that I would side with this reasoning of course, but it is technically possible, and doesn't need any specific "law."

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

That is pretty lame of the douche cop brother (Jack) to do that to him. It is basically out of spite. Jack is just pissed that he "out of the loop" and doesn't know what is happening. He is resorting to mis-using his power.

Every time Jack is shown asking questions I yell at the screen that it is none of his business!!!

On that note, he should have been charged with theft. He basically stole a $100 bill from his brother's house when he was babysitting.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Either Dan said something to Jack about time travel very early on or Kate did, because Jack brings it up to Dan in the first or second episode. (They are having lunch or coffee or something at an outdoor cafe. The clip - where Jack says "...and you go back in time?" with regard to Dan's disappearances. The clip has been included in the opening recap of several episodes, including the last one.


Well, maybe that's because nobody is being put away simply for saying they go back in time. Dan has been missing work, late on deadlines, did something freaky with an airline flight - which also screwed up a special trip with his wife. He wrecked at least one car and "left the scene of the accident." He has been disappearing without explanation. He's had a history of drinking and gambling, and now when his behaves oddly he blames it on time travel. So now you have highly suspect and sometimes dangerous behviour, including apparently abandoning his son in a public place, combined with a delusional explanation - time travel. That's reason enough to get someone involuntarily comitted for 72 hours for psychological evaluation. Again, this is not "poor writing" (why is that always the first thing that non-writers assume when they miss a plot point or dont understand something in a movie or TV show? ) This is good writing by people who actually researched the relevant law instead of making assumptions about it.


The $100 was itself stolen property, and Jack was brought to the money by his nephew, he didn't go looking for it. So there was no illegal search. Because he was familiar with his brother and his finances, he knew there was no legitimate way Dan could have that kind of money. Either he was gambling again, in illegal games, or something worse was going on. Either way there was a good chance the bill's serial number might provide a clue. Dan was already suspected in a robbery, so Dan had probable cause to suspect that the money was evidence in a criminal investigation. So he not only had a right, he had an obligation to run the serial number. He didn't take the money and spend it, he took it to work and did his job.

And when you think your brother might be slipping back into drinking and gambling, you do push and you don't take his word for it because addicts are very good at lying and hiding things and denying their problems. So are their wives. If you want to help someone like that, you have to push. Which Jack knows very well, not only from his job, but from past experience with Dan.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

This episode almost felt as though we skipped an episode. Or perhaps a lot of stuff ended up on the cutting room floor?

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I Agree and it would'nt be the 1st time NBC aired episodes of their Series out of Order, homicide was big on this. You almost get the Idea that he let on more to his brother, did I miss this? And the FBI Dude was looking into Dan's time traveling. I definitely think we missed something.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I disagree. There was nothing in Dan and Jack's interactions that suggested Jack knew more about Dan's travelling than we've been shown. And the FBI agent has been looking into Dan - including his current and recent stories. Since Dan always uses the excuse that his research on the people he's helping in the past has to do with a story he's working on in the present, the FBI agent is looking into them to see if they offer any clues to whatever Dan is up to with the stolen and/or counterfeit money.

A lot of Dan's rescues have been very public, and therefore generated news stories of their own. The FBI agent has stumbled across the fact that each of these people was saved by a "mysterious stranger" who disappeared, never to be seen again. All of these strangers were described as being about Dan's height, weight, coloring and age, and some of them had called themselves "Dan", although they didn't give a last name. No one would have ever noticed this pattern because nobody would have had a reason to look for connections between those particular stories - from different years, even different decades, different parts of the city and involving people who had no connection to one another. But thanks to the ransom money and the out-of-place 20 and his own research, Dan gave the FBI agent a reason to look into all of those stories, and notice the common thread.

I doubt the FBI agent is "looking into Dan's time travel" per se. I think at this point he's just found the common element in the stories and is at the "WTF?" stage of his inquiry. He knows he's found something, but he doesn't know what. Because I think you go through a lot of other explantions and eliminate them one by one before you even think that time travel is a possibility.

I don't think anything's missing or that the episode was aired out of order. I just think this is very tight writing that presents only the necessary information and trusts the audience to connect the dots.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I'd agree about the FBI agent stuff, but there were definitely some missing pieces of dialog between Dan and Jack. And if we didn't miss anything, I certainly wouldn't call it "tight" writing. Maybe lazy writing.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

"Definitely"? State your source. Or at least produce some evidence. What dialogue in the episode suggests that there was another conversation between the two that we missed? I watched the episode and didn't think that there was anything in the way Jack and Dan spoke and behaved that wasn't entirely consistent with what we'd already seen.

Jack knows there is no way the Dan got his hand on a prototype $20, so if the one that was in evidence was real, there has to be another explanation.

Dan knows he gave the bill to a cabbie - a detail Jack had left out.

Dan's information on the child molestor checks out. Jack is continuing to process these clues - visibily, on-screen - as the story goes on. To the point where his girlfriend wonders if Jack is starting to believe this time travel stuff, and he has to backtrack for her benefit.

All of this provides a single coherent explanation for all the strange goings-on of the past few months. If Dan is really time-travelling - and the money and the child molestor seem to prove that - then everything else makes sense and Dan isn't crazy.

So of course when they speak later Jack is apparently more accepting and supportive. And of course Dan reacts to that. Jack's brain doesn't turn off when he isn't on camera. We've seen him come 8/10ths of the way towards believing Dan. Why is anyone surprised that he's closer to 90% or 100% the next time we see him?

Did they stop and waste time restating things they'd already shown, for the benefit of people who weren't keeping up? No. But there's nothing "lazy" about that. You've only got 40-some minutes of screen time in which to tell a complicated story. You can't waste it repeating yourself except where absolutely necessary. And we know the writers are willing to risk losing the audience. Look how many people didn't realize that Dan had the ransom money hidden in the pockets and lining of his coat when the FBI agents were searching the bag?

We got even more with Jack than we did with the FBI agent. Yet that single, slient scene with the FBI agent surrounded by news-clippings and internet research told us all we needed to know about what he's been up to and to figure out his off-screen thought process. Was that "lazy" writing or "tight" writing?

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

It'd be neat if someone catches a photo of Dan doing something 20 or more years in the past, and not have changed how he looks at all. Then someone in the present day, Jack, his boss, the FBI agent looking at that photo.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I think it would be great blackmail material.
Maybe the Tachions doctor tries to get the time travel ability from Dan, by finding a picture of Dan doing something in the past to expose him.

or something to that effect

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I don't remember the exchange verbatim, but it was when Dan was talking to Jack on the phone about the child killer and Dan said something like, "So does this mean you believe me now?" Or something to that effect. There had never before been a mention to Jack of specifically what was going on with Dan. If there was, then I missed it.

And I get what you're saying about not spelling out every little detail for the viewer, but all this did was leave me wondering, "Did I miss something?" For an example of the right way to do it, watch 'The Wire'.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

They play the moment almost every week on the recap. We see Jack saying, "He says he travels back in time and sees Livia." I don't remember the moment in the show, but it did happen.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I think it was in the premiere episode, or more likely the first episode after the premiere.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

??? So everybody knows that Jack is using Dan's time travel claim as one of the reasons for having him locked up for observation, but half the people in this thread doen't remember Dan discusssing time travel with Jack? Now I'm confused.



Jack's specific line about Dan's seeing Livia is has also appeared in the recaps, as Greg noted. (As I recall Jack asks Dan if he sees Livia in the past at some point.)


Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Come to think of it, I do now remember Jack talking about Dan seeing Livia. But are the words "time" or "travel" ever mentioned? I think I always assumed Jack thought Dan thought he saw Livia...not by time travel, but in present time.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Yes.

Repeatedly.

And reprised in the recap of approximately every other freakin' episode.

"You go back to the past. And see Livia."

Jack has also mentioned Dan's claims about time travel in several of his conversations with Kate.


Neither Dan nor Jack ever said anything close to this - which would have created a whole different dynamic between the brothers. Dan would then have been seeing a ghost - or merely hallucinating - neither of which are considered quite as crazy as time travel in our society. (People make a fat living claiming to see ghosts, after all. And seeing the odd vision is generally not considered dangerous.)

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Well, if that is the case then consider myself with my foot in my mouth as I type this. In my defense, for the first few episodes (minus the pilot) I wasn't that into this show (and almost bailed), so perhaps I blocked it out or just didn't care. I decided to stick with it and the last few episodes (since the one where he had to save "himself") have been the best of the series so far.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I was just reading through the episode synopses on the official site. None of them pinpoint Dan's first conversation with Jack about his travels (there's just a reference to Dan's trouble convincing "his loved ones.") But the recap of "Game Three", the episode about the earthquake, clearly states that it is Jack who first tells Katie that Dan has spoken about seeing Livia in the past. Katie later verifies this when she catches Dan wearing Livia's watch - one he had inscribed to his former fiancee, and which she gave him during a "leap" when his own watch broke. Jack may not want to believe, but there is always a part of him that seems to treat the whole thing as just barely possible - why else bring up Livia to Kate if he doesn't believe on some level that Dan is really seeing her?

I did play the beginning of the last episode. In the recap there is this exchange between Jack and Dan, set in the police station. I think it is from either the pilot or the 2nd regular episode:

JACK: "Katie says you says you disappeared for a couple of days and didn't know it?"

DAN: "Something like that."

JACK: "And you went back time?"

Every detail in this show means something and stuff that people may have tuned out as "unimportant" or "filler" in the early episodes is turning out to be very important now. (I have a feeling that some folks may find the relationship aspect of the show - what some in other places have called "the soap opera stuff" - boring and may have fast-forwardied through some of the Kate/Jack scenes. Easy to miss key details that way.)

Regards,

Joe

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I was interested and wouldn't dream of fast-forwarding. I'm the type who annoys people by rewinding if I even go two seconds into the show when FF through the commercials. I just have a bad memory. Plus, they have kind of played it down by having Katie and Dan actively trying to keep it from Jack since they found out his reaction was very negative.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

I do have all episodes on DVD.
Maybe on my days off(Tues&Wed) I'll search for an ACTUAL conversation
(besides the one mentioned above)

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Hi everyone, this is my first post

One of the main reasons I joined was to talk about Journeyman! If you weren't already aware, the situation for Journeyman is quite a bit dire, as NBC has apparently decided that it will get the axe. While there's been no official announcements of any kind, the writing is on the wall.

However, there's a large group of people who want Journeyman to get a better chance than just a half of a season, so we're working on some sort of capaign to help.

There's a petition available, and I've set up a website that summarizes what you can do and what our "plan of attack" is. Unfortunately the forum doesn't allow posting links until a person has 10 posts for spam reasons - which I totally understand - but if you want to find the site just search for save journeyman on google it's around the 5th result down from the top. (The link is in my profile if you're interested) The site description is "Dedicated to saving the excellent show Journeyman on NBC." Just so everyone knows, there are no ads, no pop-ups, no money making affiliate links of any kind. This is just a genuine effort to help the show.

We had a chat tonight and came up with some ideas, and I'm planning on contacting the folks at nutsonline who were responsible for the delivery of tons of nuts in the Nuts For Jericho campaign, in the hopes that we can conjure up something similar for Journeyman.

Journeyman had similar ratings to Jericho, in a worse time slot, and NBC is behind ABC, CBS, and FOX in the ratings, so if they see something like Journeyman building up a fanbase of support like this, we might be able to save it!

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

Here is a "What if?" question for those here. If you were Dan. Would you tell anyone besides your wife?

I would not only tell my brother. I would tell his friend the news editor. I think after they were convinced it would make his travelling a lot easier. Since he wouldn't have to worry about the implications of his disappearing.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

On Journeyman's future:

I don't know what Forum policy is on posting links, so let me just say, do a Google search for 'save Journeyman' and you should stumble upon an online petition. Not that those normally do any good. I doubt anything can save the show at this point, but I need to say my peace just to know that I did.

Journeyman, without a doubt, deserves a second season. It started out as a mildly interesting (in premise), unclassifiable and endearing (if not slightly bland) effort... then just four-five episodes in, unexpectedly blossomed into a riveting and original program.

The actors are likable, the characters are well written, and its loyalty to its own internal momentum is tightly wound. It is extremely rare nowadays for a show with a science fiction element to cater to people who crave a good adult relationship drama with a solid story arc, and Journeyman does this, while at the same time providing the thrills that come with any adventure involving someone messing with the time line. As a bonus, the opening theme is kick ass.

Journeyman's fan base is loyal but extremely small, unfortunately, so the chances of the show lasting are slim to none. It's just a shame that in a world where horrific entries like 'Notes from the Underbelly' manage to earn their way to network redemption, quality dramas like Journeyman - already at a loss because of poor time slots - are shafted. This shouldn't happen to a show like this, not during a writers' strike that will invariably result in the creation of reality shows that leave audiences begging for programs like Journeyman once the strike is lifted.

On Journeyman's many plot points:

Jack has been made aware more than once that Dan believes he has been traveling through time. As some of you have noticed, each recap shows his brother incredulously saying "And you traveled through time?" Plus, episode 2 or 3 has Jack making a joke about Dan's 'wayback machine.' As you all know, this is a reference to the time machine in 'Peabody's Improbable History,' as introduced on the Rocky & Bullwinkle show decades ago.

The preview for tonight's episode shows a very disturbed and disbelieving Jack slowly shaking his head as he sees Livia - who he knows to be long dead. Despite the alteration to the time line that has resulted in Jack thinking his brother is crazy, none of that will matter once he sees Livia.

I was on vacation out of state when last week's episode aired, but I actually managed to catch most of it. However, I missed a lot of it. This whole thing with the serial kidnapper sort of went over my head, and Dan's discussions with Jack I missed entirely. Am I to believe that Dan was helping the wrong girl the entire time?

That opening scene at the rave (nice touch: Depeche Mode's "Halo" (great song) plays and the lyrics mention "When the Walls Come Tumbling In" as Dan breaks down the wall to the building. Although, let me just say, you would NEVER hear that song at a rave in a condemned building in SF in the '90's. I would know, I attended a lot of them there.

Todds, in answer to your question about telling people other than my wife... I'm not sure if i would. I think we can all agree that if Dan and Jack were not completely dysfunctional brothers, it would be a no-brainer that Jack would be in the know. The nice thing about this show is, by showing us their past history as young men, Journeyman has explained to its audience that the resentment between those two started long before Katie came along and definitely goes both ways.

Re: Journeyman - season 1 thread

How bad is the time slot, really? Having Heroes as a lead-in ain't bad. Those viewers just aren't liking what they see, unfortunately.