Mannix is coming! - Page 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryDuBrow 

I hope the Mannix numbers will restore a little faith over at CBS for their other 70s cop/detective shows, so we'll see some renewed release action there soon. And a little bit of fantasy and suspended disbelief in realistic dramas never hurt anyone, it's really people without that viewing tradition or imagination that go picking apart such things in times where total realism is the order for drama. Getting hit over the head with a gun we all know could crack the skull open, but it'd mean weeks in a hospital bed for the hero if we had to play by those rules of narrative. Harry O like Mannix I guess was more realistic and human than most, while Frank Cannon or Barnaby Jones both could take on any younger more shapely fit criminal, totally unrealistic of course, and even shoot better than any opponent too. Hey, it's just one reason why I love this stuff. It's care-free escapism.

Henry,

Great words -- thanks.

More than care-free escapism (which some and perhaps most of it is, admittedly), at its best strong character-driven TV is art.  And art, by definition is both abstract (thus representative of something beyond reality) and, at its best, with enough content to actually change you for the better. 

In my opinion, strong character-driven TV is a highly under-rated art form.   It's content is clearly representative of things that you can map to your own life situation -- not meant to turn everyone into cops or PIs, but meant to allow us to be tougher, more comfortable being independent, more comfortable putting ourselves out there, on the line, willing to get hurt for some higher purpose.  And, because of the weekly format, you can actually have a relationship with it that transcends the power of movies or novels.  It infuses you. 

Certainly, while I was growing up, viewing Mannix was the highlight of my week.  There was a reason I looked forward to it all week long -- it gave me hope that life held the possibility of being more than a grind -- that it held moments of grace right in the midst of its struggles.    In that way, Mannix made more sense than the so-called reality that was in front of my face.

I can't agree enough that this trend towards realism is at the expense of imagination.   But, interestingly, people can survive the worst kinds of situations so long as their imaginations are intact.   It's when they become buried in reality that they start to have problems -- it's then that they become smaller people -- and why should this not make sense?   To be human is to think beyond the confines of a single life.

And so, the other, more positive, side of that coin is that not only can we survive more, but we can also be enabled to do great things -- more than we would have otherwise -- when we have desirable models in mind for what good behavior is all about.  

Great, character-driven TV allows us to see the entirely of our lives in perspective while we live out the daily grind.  When we have great characters embedded in our minds, we make better choices - tougher choices - ones we are not only less likely to be ashamed of later on, but ones we are more likely to be grateful we made as we view our lives in perspective.

While I am far, far from perfect, I have no doubt that I made better choices in my life because I was infused at an early age with a character I loved who happened to be a great role model.    There was a part of me that didn't want to let the image of him that I carried inside of me down -- and that made me better.

And I am so grateful for that.

...and still good numbers today (for the sale of s6)!

DVD Empire:

Current Sales Rank: 18
 

Barnes and Noble:

Sales Rank: 76

Tested out all six discs (skipped through the chapters) in the Mannix: Season 6 set. The picture/print quality is on a par with the previous five seasons.

When I got to the episode "Harvest of Death" on disc three, noticed what I thought was the same house used for Angela Channing's or the Giobertis' house in Falcon Crest (which started on CBS something like nine years after this episode of Mannix originally aired), when they shot outside the house on location in the first dozen or so episodes of it's first six or seven seasons.

And dare I say it, but I actually like the 'silouhette on blue background' opening, leading into the main cast title sequence. It does feel strange without the yellow Mannix logo appearing onscreen at the start of the teaser, the teaser following, then the main cast title sequence. It was a trademark of the show, but I don't think the quality of the sixth season will suffer because of it being removed.

If the seventh season is released (ideally both this and the eighth season released before the end of this year, but if not, then hopefully the seventh season will be released around this July (like with the fifth season last year), then fingers crossed CBS/P can clear the Diagnosis Murder episode "Hard-Boiled Murder", the sequel to the seventh season Mannix episode "Little Girl Lost", so that it could be included as a special feature in the seventh season Region 1 set.

The menu screen design (even though it's the same for all six discs) is as good as before.

With the sixth season now having been released on Region 1, hopefully more people will comment on the episodes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaveCrest 

Tested out all six discs (skipped through the chapters) in the Mannix: Season 6 set. The picture/print quality is on a par with the previous five seasons.

 

When I got to the episode "Harvest of Death" on disc three, noticed what I thought was the same house used for Angela Channing's or the Giobertis' house in Falcon Crest (which started on CBS something like nine years after this episode of Mannix originally aired), when they shot outside the house on location in the first dozen or so episodes of it's first six or seven seasons.

 

And dare I say it, but I actually like the 'silouhette on blue background' opening, leading into the main cast title sequence. It does feel strange without the yellow Mannix logo appearing onscreen at the start of the teaser, the teaser following, then the main cast title sequence. It was a trademark of the show, but I don't think the quality of the sixth season will suffer because of it being removed.

 

If the seventh season is released (ideally both this and the eighth season released before the end of this year, but if not, then hopefully the seventh season will be released around this July (like with the fifth season last year), then fingers crossed CBS/P can clear the Diagnosis Murder episode "Hard-Boiled Murder", the sequel to the seventh season Mannix episode "Little Girl Lost", so that it could be included as a special feature in the seventh season Region 1 set.

 

The menu screen design (even though it's the same for all six discs) is as good as before.

 

With the sixth season now having been released on Region 1, hopefully more people will comment on the episodes.

Richard,

I can't comment about the use of the house in Falcon Crest -- but I know that all sorts of locations used for Mannix both externally and inside the Paramount lot were used for lots and lots of other series. In addition, many of these locations were used multiple times in Mannix over its eight year run! As a result of paying attention to this I've become somewhat intrigued by how camera angles can completely change the perception and mask the fact that the same location is being used.

I'm warming back up to the 'silouhette on blue background' opening of Mannix.   But, I confess that my favorite was always the openings for s4 and s5, where the word "mannix" appeared in gold and that signature black grid opened the show.  It was exciting!

First, it was so unique -- that grid opening was pure Mannix and nothing else.  And, because it was unique to Mannix and because they used that grid all of the time, in-between scenes, to open the show, and to end the show, you associated it with Mannix in such a way that when the show that preceded Mannix ended and you sat there on the couch and knew Mannix was coming next it was just pure joy to see that grid appear, that name and know the show was going to begin in that instant -- so you had better pay attention right away!  There were no DVRs, no possibility of taping and so it was exciting to really be in the moment like that when the series aired.  

So, when the silhouette came along (and worse, when they butchered the opening for part of the time), it was somehow slower to get into Mannix -- the opening was more of a warning to get ready than an immediate call to pay attention.  And too, it was less unique.

Yes, with the quality of the s6 video on par with the previous releases, and knowing that all of Mannix has been re-mastered, those s7 and s8 releases are sure to be outstanding.   I've waited so long for them, I'm willing to wait until next year -- whatever ultimately gets the series into the hands of more people will work just fine with me.

I'd be more than happy to engage in a discussion of s6 or any other season of Mannix!  One thing newcomers to the show can't know -- and something there was a small amount of over the weekend -- is the sense that while you are watching your favorite show, a good chunk of the rest of the nation is watching it as well.  When Mannix was first run, there were three major networks and then PBS -- virtually nothing else.  Even ABC didn't have the breadth of CBS and NBC.   This meant that major programming was split three ways, and a strong show (which Mannix was for a lot of its run) would take a sizable percentage of everyone who had a TV on that night.    

I guess the equivalent today would be something like Dancing With the Stars, where a lot of people watch at once because it is live and people get up to speed in order to discuss it the next day -- but, even then there is so much competition on so many channels that it isn't the same.   It's hard to imagine the unity that having only three networks provided unless you lived it.

This brings up another interesting point -- there is a guy who wrote an interesting book, The Paradox of Choice: Why More is Less.   His conclusion, based upon experimentation, is that the more we have to choose from (of anything from jam to cars), the less satisfied we are when we make a choice -- which is the opposite of what you might think.  He says that the fewer options we have, the happier we are when we make a selection -- having no choice is bad and having too much choice is also bad!   The few shows we had back then on those three networks made us incredibly happy, for sure -- and on the supply side of the same argument, they had, in my opinion, much higher quality as well -- probably because resources weren't spread around so thinly.

Less is more -- and that is also the principle Mannix used when subtly conveying character and character relationships.  And that is a lot of what gave the show its class.  And if you think about it, that makes sense too.  While other shows were out there in my face, trying to spell out what I was supposed to be thinking, repeating things if I missed something, I was forced to pay attention to Mannix -- both because the show moved as such a rapid pace, but also because of those small scenes and reaction shots that CLOO cut out over the weekend.   If I didn't pay attention, I would miss something -- and I so wanted to not miss anything!

This brings to mind something else I was thinking when I was watching the s6 DVDs.  As discussed in a previous post, s6 is, perhaps, the year of Mannix with the least "action" (again s7 makes up for this!).   But, s6 is full of those small scenes I would wait all week for. 

And, in thinking about that more, I realized something that not all people who like Mannix appreciate.  If you don't simply take for granted the way Joe Mannix responds to people in certain situations, if you don't think that is stereotypical garden-variety cop-style, then you find it interesting -- and you really pay attention to it.  And, those who watched Mannix first run really paid attention to the way Joe Mannix behaved, because the show was completely unique then -- lots of shows copied it only later on!

And, if you paid attention to it what you got out of it -- really got out of it -- was the subtle ways that Joe Mannix conveyed that you could be one heck of a good person and not have to either sit on the sidelines or take a lot of crap.  But, the way that was conveyed was not via car chases, fist fights, gun fights or other physical stuff so much as from Mike Connor's face and mannerisms.   They were so subtle -- but now, as an adult, I can see them much better than I ever could before.   

TV is, after all, primarily a visual media.  And, car chases, fist fights and gun fights are cheap and easy to replicate -- and so not unique enough to be worthy of too much attention.  But, the main visual of Mannix that was really worth paying attention to was the facial expressions that were often associated with very small amounts of dialogue.  That's what really left the impression.  One good example of this is in s5's "The Man Outside" where Joe is held at gunpoint in his office and just stands there ready to get shot -- and looks the guy right in the eyes in order to convey that he is telling the truth. 

That's one incredibly useful life's lesson to learn right there in that one scene!!!

You can take that one scene, for example, and abstract it to countless other life situations -- only after you see it. 

Because, my typing the words that describe that scene can never convey it as much as a look on a face that you believe and that really gets to you -- my words make you want to go watch that scene, and not the other way around! 

And, lots of people could act out that scene in significantly cheaper ways (and they have, over the years) -- but, for some reason, most people do not realize just how good the acting was in Mannix. 

So, yet another difference between Mannix and the many shows that tried to copy it is the intensity of the facial expressions in scenes just like that as well as in lots of other scenes that as a kid I enjoyed -- and as an adult, I appreciate. 

Now, because I've lived a little, I can understand better what those same situations are like and can appreciate what Joe Mannix's reactions to them symbolically represent, just how hard some of that is to actually do -- but also how much I want to do it better.

And so watching Mannix makes me want to do better, all over again.

numbers are still good at amazon.com and bn.com -- but the dvdempire.com number is way up there, and so worth mentioning:

Current Sales Rank: 11
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd11954 

I would agree that S6 is more mental than physical. Not as much action as earlier seasons. But good in its own right. I wonder if that had to do with the new time slot of the show. It moved to Sunday nights with, I think, an 8:30 pm start. That puts it more into the family zone. Most youngers would be still up, versus the previous 10 pm start on Saturdays and Wednesdays. In either S7 or S8, the show moves out another hour to 9:30. When it hit summer reruns in S8, it went back to 10 pm Wednesdays for a few weeks before dropping of the schedule altogether. They cancelled a Top 20 show!

Russ,

All these years later, I am still angry about the cancellation of Mannix while it was still in the top 20!  I read somewhere else where someone said the summer reruns -- in that Wednesday 10pm timeslot it did so well in during s5 as well -- actually hit the top 3 on a semi-regular basis.  According to MC the cancellation was because of Paramount's selling earlier seasons of the show to run on ABC late night -- and CBS, which wanted to renew the show otherwise, didn't think people would watch the show in prime time anymore.  Of course, that is not a factor today, but Mannix was always at the cutting edge -- and getting beat up for it.  I can't think of any other dramas back then for which there was a desire to run them in syndication while they were still in first run -- and, that must not have been the case since Mannix was canceled for that reason.

Whether or not it was because of it running in that 8:30 Sunday timeslot -- an absurd timeslot for Mannix if there ever was one -- the content of s6 being somewhat more cerebral certainly had to do with the pushback on violence, in general -- and the downhill slide the US took towards "family values."  We still haven't recovered from that slide, in my opinion.

Far too many people are walking around the planet with the idea in the back of their minds, "What would John-Boy do?" as opposed to "What would Joe Mannix do?" -- and so they wind up thinking that a good person is someone who can simply observe and report the suffering of others with the main message to be happy with whatever they have -- as opposed to a good person requiring putting oneself completely on the line in order to do the right thing and responding, moment by moment, with toughness.   Those are broad outlines of the differences -- but accurate enough to be a scary reflection of our culture these past 35 years or so. 

When I was younger I didn't differentiate so well -- and so I watched, basically, whatever was on TV, thinking it pretty much all held sufficient wisdom, just in different forms   It took me years to be able to figure out that there were some pretty significant differences -- beyond mere entertainment, but deep down, in the themes.  And that those differences can affect a person.

Beyond The Waltons, even Magnum and Rockford were Mannix-lite, which means they have about the same level of authenticity as light butter, with Rockford being a response to Mannix created by a guy whose main basis for creating Rockford was a criticism that Mannix once offered to do a case for free because the client was a kid (creating, in this response, a far more absurd and  implausible focus on money in Rockford), and then Magnum being, essentially, a follow on to Rockford -- the same people who did Rockford did Magnum and it was the same sort of reluctant good-guy who had something bad once happen to him and never really recovered from it, just in a different setting.  Then, the same people who did Magnum did JAG, which, in turn spawned NCIS, in which involvement with governmental organizations and technology is the main theme (which is what Mannix was opposed to!) --  and you have just covered the past 35 years of top-rated crime dramas that took a great, pure theme of toughness, independence and intensity and turned in into something which gives you the message to be happy being something less than a tough individual and so go ahead and take that snooze through life, you're not alone.

This downhill slide started when Mannix went off the air and these kinds of shows remained -- but, the hints that softness was the new order of the day did start in Mannix in s6, out of necessity -- until the producers seemed to go right back in the face of the network for s7 and s8 and brought the action back in full force!

And so, because I liked to see Joe really get in there and mix things up, get physically involved, for many years I had thought that s6 was my least favorite year of Mannix.   Now, that is a relative thing -- my least favorite year of Mannix is several orders of magnitude better than my favorite year of just about anything else. 

But, as an adult, I can appreciate how creative they were in s6 -- and I find myself drawn to so many episodes and scenes in there.   While they toned the violence down, they kept finding new ways to show the basic qualities of Joe Mannix's character -- his toughness and independence.   And this resulted in some truly great scenes and situations that I wasn't able to appreciate before.

Again, when Peggy goes undercover in "Out of the Night" and Joe takes punishment right in front of her -- that's a great scene!   And then there is "Lost Sunday" which has Joe taking all of the punishment in prison -- and just standing there when the cops arrest him, with little protest (what good would complaining do?).    You get the sense from the look on his face that he knows what is going on -- and resigned to that moment, but not the situation.   How great is that?  How would those "Mannix-lite" characters handle that?   Could they even do a show like that?

Then consider "See No Evil" which has everyone -- everyone -- against Joe at some point, including his client, Art, Peggy, and even the kid he is trying to help -- and he just stands up to that without complaining!   Would that I could do that!  In any event, watching Mannix makes me want to be more like that -- yet again.

Probably the physical, more rapid-paced version of Joe Mannix that  Mike Connors played in s1 and was still very much there in s2 would not have had much luck pulling off the stories of s6 -- but, because MC grew into the character and became a better actor, we get to see what is essentially a whole different version of Joe Mannix in s6, while still being true to the character.   His toughness and independence comes in a slower, more deliberate form.  And, while, for example, getting punched in front of Peggy isn't all that much punishment in an absolute sense, because of the situation, it winds up being powerful -- precisely because of the incredibly subtle, but intense, looks on his face.

Then there are just some great scenes in other shows of s6 -- virtually all of them -- like the scene in "The Open Web" when Peggy comes into Joe's office, the closing scene of "The Inside Man," the scene with Art in Joe's office in "Light and Shadow," and then some episodes that were so well done from start to finish that I can watch them over and over again, like "A Matter of Principle" and "A Puzzle for One." 

s6 shows that they could remove virtually everything Mannix was initially supposed to be about -- the action -- and still have that great character that was behind it all and have it not only be enough, but exposed for what the show was truly all about -- the qualities of the character.  And because the show was a trail-blazer, inventing all sorts of things as it went along, it simply responded to the year of lesser violence by being creative and producing some really interesting shows with memorable scenes.

And too, it's  just more evidence that Mannix was about a character first -- his qualities -- and was a PI and/or action show way second to that.  

And those qualities, when you get to see them all again on those DVDs with those uncut episodes, can infuse you -- and make you better.

note: edited to correct CSI to NCIS -- originally mixing up the alphabet soup of crime scene investigation shows...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejgrevink 

Paul Mavis is quick this time.
His extensive (and positive) review of "the Sixth" is already there!
Thought this is important.
Greetings to all on the Board.
Elmar (Netherlands)

Elmar,

Thanks very much for posting this!  I went ahead and read it and, while it does not exactly make up for his review for season 5 -- which still sticks out like a sore thumb on the list of Mannix reviews on that site -- at least the bottom line is right on.   

I am sort of stunned that Mr. Mavis was assigned to review Mannix again, considering his categorical type of response to criticism of his review of s5, especially the part about his getting the gender of Reza Badiya wrong.  Let me just say that you wouldn't believe it -- and leave it at that.

Even so, this review matters less than the one for s5, because that s5 release happened right on the heels of the lawsuit, and any sort of damage to the sales could have been harmful -- I'm thankful that the s6 release happened anyway.

As for the content of his review -- well, he does say some good things, but they seem to always have an edge to them -- including his opening line of the entire review.  For another example, one of his previous reviews of Mannix (I think it was for s4) talked about how MC still had "his looks" -- with strong implications that s4 was pretty much the last season MC wasn't too old for the part -- an axe-grinding criticism that comes from who knows where?  Not only that but it was absurd!  How old is Mark Harmon now, still playing on CSI -- 60?  The facts are that you can't play a role like Mannix unless you've lived a little and learned from it -- and MC was in such physical shape that he pulled it off in a way few others could, if any.

I'm not sure what happened to ejgrevink's original post -- I think it should have been #788.  When I responded to Russ, I went back to look at the thread and saw it there, then went to look at the review, and responded after that.  But, after I made my post his post was gone!

Does this sort of thing happen in the forum??

Can someone find his post and put the correct order back, please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryDuBrow 

It's still good to see those positive on-going sales numbers for Mannix. Just checked one disc in S6, fun to see Campanella in a guest slot there. We sorely miss the hero role models in the TV detectives of today, how many kids out there want to be a dry and boring uncool stiff like David Caruso with shades? Well, I suppose some do. It just seemed a lot more fun way back when, playing the larger than life characters like The Persuaders, Starsky & Hutch or Dan Tanna from Vega$.

Henry,

Sure hope your post does not disappear by the time I post my reply...

Yes, the sales numbers remain good today -- I just don't tend to post numbers unless they are higher than the day before.   In one aspect they are today -- dvdempire.com says it updates its "100 bestseller" list weekly, as opposed to daily.   That must not be true though because Mannix s6 was stuck there in the 60's for days while its daily numbers were much better than those for other DVDs that remained much higher-ranked on that list.  But, today some of that has caught up, and s6 is ranked at 29 on that list of top 100 bestsellers, while its daily number remains very strong at 14! 

I just happened to watch the Joe Campanella episode last night ("The Crimson Halo"). Did you enjoy that exchange when they first meet, where MC says, "The Name is Mannix" and JC says, "Is that supposed to mean something to me?" I laughed out loud when I first saw that! How cool was that?

You can also see, somehow, by looking at that episode, how the whole Intertect-Wickersham format would not have lasted (even though JC is playing a different character, you get the sense of what they would have looked like together, 5 years later). Joe Mannix needed to go out on his own.

I can't agree with you more -- if we don't have solid, hero role models, how can we have a compass to even aspire to be anything more but mundane?

The emphasis on "reality TV," the science and organization-laden themes in the few hero-oriented TV shows we currently have, and the plethora of news and information channels -- complete with people who seek the kinds of high-school level approval that comes from saying something small, but correct (as opposed to saying something with some depth that might upset people), is evidence that we've become bogged down in a kind of fear that is truly worse than fear itself -- we fear being unpopular, to include being unpopular in pursuit of doing the right thing.

How awful is that?

My heroes all had one thing in common -- they were willing to put it all on the line in order to do the right thing -- reputation, body, money -- everything.     What are you if you aren't willing to do that?  You used to sit down, turn on the TV and in the back of your mind realize you were going to see this person that, deep down, you really wished you were -- not because of the lifestyle, but because they had guts -- and used them properly.

I work with all sorts of people that it can be tough to communicate with on the basis of what is right -- it's the bottom line that counts and, when it comes down to it, that bottom line virtually always translates directly to their level of comfort through some organizationally sanctioned means of dumbing us down.

Paradoxically, focusing on the bottom line tends to work against the bottom line, but that is another story.

The thing I loved about Mannix -- and, as it turns out I always did, all through these years, even though I didn't realize it as fully before -- was that his main goal in life was not creature comfort.  He wasn't even married -- and this focus on family is really a thinly veiled disguise to accrue and hide from life, as opposed to being fully engaged.   And, the paradox is that when you do that, you give your kids less of a love of life -- how many kids would rather their parents were really heroes of some sort?    That's because we all, deep down, have a need to be one -- its more important than just about anything else. 

If you don't have a hero model on the inside, you can't even control your own ego -- it takes a strong hero model to do that (again, see Carl Jung -- that is one of Joseph Campbell's myths). 

Or, let me say, if that isn't true for you, then I don't want to know you -- and, sadly, there are too many people in that category walking around right now.

And, let's face it, those of us who imitate our parents, for any reason and at any age, are not complete people -- we need those hero models on the outside that we can find for ourselves so that we can become the person we are supposed to be.   Hero role models allow us to choose -- they give us the excuse we need to become the person we are supposed to be as opposed to the person other people tell us we should be.

To be human is to understand that life is about more than sex, food, money or any other kind of comfort or self-aggrandizement.  These things do not dominate when you are fully engaged -- always testing yourself, giving yourself over to some higher purpose. 

The paradox is that when you don't put your own life first, you find yourself.

And that really was in Mannix -- really so superbly done that I am stunned by it -- it was right in front of me as a kid!  And, it's themes hold up against so many things I've read over the years.

Also in there was that in order to be that hero, you had to be one tough individual, in so many ways.  You got the sense that Joe Mannix drew his energy by being tough -- being challenged and consistently meeting those challenges.   What a great way to become a larger individual and to contribute more! 

At this point in my life, I can look back and be grateful for any steps I ever took on that path, however small they might have been.   And, I also wish I had done better, looking back.  

Maybe if I had access to all of the myths of TV placed in front of me, all at once, say 20 years ago, I would have been able to separate what was behind them better -- and do more as a result.

But, I also am grateful to have the most important one back now.

Long live Joe Mannix.

The subject of heroes is so much on my mind lately, that I thought I'd put down a few more thoughts.    Henry may well live to regret bringing it up...

But here is more evidence of the cheapening of the hero myth in our culture these past decades -- and the absurdity of mixing reality TV with the hero myth.

Did you ever see that "Heroes" special on CNN -- the one done every year for the past few years, around Thanksgiving?   If not -- what they do is select 10 or so people they decide are heroes during the past calendar year-- and then actually hold an award-style show to select one as the hero of the year, effectively turning all of the rest of them into losers!

Now, this is wrong on so many levels.

First, genuine heroes would be, at the very least, uncomfortable being selected as such, and certainly not want to be put in a position where their works are ranked next to that of others -- either by being chosen as one of the 10 each year, or, worse, as the "hero of the year."   

To see how incongruous this is with the hero myth, can you imagine one of your childhood heroes at an awards show?  Can you imagine Joe Mannix at an awards show?

Now, don't get me wrong -- these all seem like genuinely good people who do great works -- and they are probably led to believe that their stories will inspire others, making it worth being a part of that process.  My guess is that most of them believe that -- it seems reasonable enough on the surface.

But, here is the problem.  When I see specific stories like that, all I can really conclude is that there are good people out there who deserve recognition.   I can admire them.  But, specific stories like that don't tend to inspire us to bring out the hero in ourselves.   Instead, those stories, presented in a certain way, can actually make us feel bad about our own lives -- but feeling bad about your life does not tend to inspire you to become better!

Contrast that with the hero myth in stories.  When it is well done, you get the marrow out of it -- you are able to understand that it is a myth, and so representative of all sorts of more specific versions that are consistent with the myth.    Most people watching Mannix in the 60's and 70's did not wind up, nor want to be PIs.  But, they sure could be inspired by Joe Mannix, the hero myth -- those qualities of independence, toughness, willingness to sacrifice.  Those are made universal in great hero myths.  And so they inspire.   They make you feel good about being better via identification with the symbology that attracts you, instead of bad about your own life by contrast to that of another's.

Next, consider the plethora of CSI - SVU dramas of today's TV.  Those are actually inspiring young people to take up all sorts of criminology in school!  What are all of those people going to actually do for a living -- what are they going to contribute?    That is the hero myth gone bad -- what happens when it is done wrong.   Young people, hungry for the hero myth, see something sort of in that vein.  But, because it is so specific, so reality-based, so technical, all they can do is mimic it on the surface.   Since it does not have any kind of real depth, there is no depth to find or follow.

Everything I connected with in Mannix went far deeper than that -- it was the qualities of the character, not anything specific about his actual job -- that was so appealing. 

And, the deeper those qualities go, the more they can only be portrayed symbolically -- at a higher, more abstract level.

But, our culture is so dominated by having to pass some sort of reality test these days that it was difficult for even someone like me to be honest and up-front about the value of the hero myth in a show like Mannix until only a year ago.   I've been immersed in technical detail, professionally, for my entire life -- and read widely in philosophy, psychology and religion as a hobby.   I ought to be comfortable seeing the value of the hero myth, and I have nothing to hide since I've been steeped in a science background.  But, it actually took a lot for me.  And, if it did for me, my guess is that the bar is high for lots of people to feel comfortable being honest about the kinds of hero myths that actually support them far more than they realize -- and, what's more, honest about what the modern-day ones are lacking.

Mike Connors is one of certain class of actors that were around in the 60's and 70's.   In listening to the audio commentary on Harper, upon which Mannix was based in part (Desi Arnaz thought it would make a good TV series), he said that only a few actors back then could play that role, Paul Newman (who did), Steve McQueen -- and he mentioned a couple of others I can't remember, but which made sense.   Then, he said that he couldn't think of a single actor today that could!   You might challege that, but I've found it hard to think of any, myself.  It isn't that those people aren't out there, somewhere -- they just aren't wanted in the popular culture right now, so you don't know who they are.

And, that's a shame. 

A well-done hero myth is larger than life.  And because of that, they make our lives a little bit larger, just because we want to be a little bit more like them.  

For all sorts of reasons, Mannix was simply the grreatest hero myth I've ever seen.   And I'm real grateful it was there in my lifetime -- twice now, with major impact on me.

Can't be certain, but I think Mission: Impossible (the original series) in it's fifth season, started each episode with a teaser (leading into the lighting match with the montage of clips from the episode). This carried on with the next season, and then it's final season, which aired during the 1972-73 season.

This discussion of the teaser is interesting.   I hadn't realized before that CBS changed the opening of so many shows at once -- I wonder why?   It virtually always has to do with money -- artistic quality being way second -- so how could that matter?    If anything, I would think a well-done teaser would help attract an audience.

When they changed the opening of Mannix, I thought it was because of competition with that NBC Mystery Movie -- so they gave it a bit of a jazzed up opening with that black silhouette -- right before they butchered it by packaging it with Barnaby Jones and Canon (which has previously been discussed on this thread).    But, this makes me wonder if it wasn't more than that -- if it was some sort of network mandate instead.  Certainly MI had a teaser in the years I'm watching on Me TV (too lazy to pull out the DVDs I purchased -- because my Blu-ray player always has a Mannix DVD in it anyway...) -- and I Spy had a teaser for all of its three year run.   I sort of remember a teaser associated with Ironside as well and Hawaii Five O.   So, if their teasers went away, then there had to have been a reason at the network level.  

Interestingly, the removal of the teaser actually had to have changed the writing of the scripts.  I've been fortunate enough to see a couple of Mannix scripts in the past few months -- and they had teaser scenes specifically written into the scripts.  If the opening all of a sudden didn't have to grab you in a few shocking minutes before the commercial break, it all of a sudden became different to write for these shows.

Maybe they though the teasers were too violent???

Because I can think of at least one sitcom that had a teaser in the 80's -- Cheers had one.  Any others?

BTW, another interesting metric for the sales of Mannix came up today -- amazon sent me this link to "bestselling boxed sets."  Now, I find many of these categorical metrics to be imprecise, especially on amazon.com where they have all sorts of categories for the sales of things, but not all things that fall into those categories are associated with them!    But, I find it interesting that the s6 sales of Mannix are ranked at #185 on that list -- and almost everything ahead of it is modern-day stuff.

Curiously, some of the older stuff seems to have been in the news lately -- Betty White's 90th birthday seems to have sparked interest in The Golden Girls.   And Welcome Back Kotter is on that list -- because the actor who played Epstein died recently.  

It's funny, but things like that seem to result in a spike in sales -- the interest for shows is out there, it's just that some people don't realize it until they have been pinged.

And actually, that sort of happened to me, since I wasn't planning to become so involved viewing the Mannix DVDs when s4 came early last January.  I was just lucky that the timing was perfect for me.

My memory of the show before then was that I loved it as a kid, but I had no idea that not only would the content hold up so well in the eyes of an adult, and after all these years, but that it was so good that it actually beautifully conveyed some pretty significant themes -- ones that helped me all these years.

Since sales of Mannix have been quite good without the significant additional exposure of having a remake, I believe the love for this series runs deep -- and would be even broader if more peop0le came to realize the quality and depth of what is really in that show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCCLOUD 

Thanks everbody for the comments on Mannix! As for the openings, I believe the 1971-1972 Season was the last Season that CBS started its drama shows first and then after a few minutes the opening credits would run. I know that starting in the 1972-1973 Season, Mannix and Cannon opened with the credits being shown first. Does anyone know of any CBS drama show from 1972-1973 forward that started with a few minutes before the credits were shown?
God Bless!
Robert

Please let me second this and thank everyone for their comments on Mannix!

One of the wonderful things about the HTF is that it gives the feeling that the show is alive -- similar to the way it felt when it first aired on TV. 

I will probably always watch Mannix, now that I have the DVDs (and, hopefully all of the seasons -- soon).  Watching it just makes me feel good -- it actually renews me -- as a good myth should!  And so, I will enjoy it alone -- as I'm sure many people are now.

But, it's great to feel that the show is alive right now on forums such as this.    And, with these DVDs, this is really the first time the actual show has been available in the US since its first run -- syndication cut the poor show so badly, it just wasn't itself.

I happened to notice something interesting about "The Crimson Halo" -- the episode where Joe Campanella plays the brain surgeon.   This isn't a plot spoiler -- but there are some tapes involved.  These tapes, as it turns out, are in a fallout shelter! 

Now, I wonder how many people under the age of 50 have any idea what a fallout shelter was -- or have any clue what it was like to go to grade schools, middle schools, and high schools with that yellow and black fallout shelter sign on the side of the building.    We actually even had drills for what to do in case of nuclear attack!

The technology in Mannix -- typewriters and corded telephones -- it's all so familiar if you lived it.   That phone in Joe's car was a big, big deal.

And, of course, lots of the story lines would change today because of instant access to information, to include communications.

Not that modern day shows don't make that absurd.   The computers in the new Hawaii Five O are ridiculous -- they flail around on screens with sweeping hand gestures like John King on CNN -- but he has those screens set-up in advance, while the HFO people appear to make all sorts of information come up just by brushing up against the computer! 

I prefer the technology to be more real -- whatever the technology is.

Actually, I think that is one thing that made Westerns so appealing -- they could strip the technology down to the bare minimum, and so just focus on character and story. 

Mannix was, in its way, sort of like that -- kind of a modern-day Western, of sorts, where the hero was not only something of a loner -- an individualist -- but actually made a point of being opposed to too much technology -- something Western's didn't need to bother with (they mostly just took the lack of technology for granted and ignored it's coming, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, aside).  The exception, of course, is The Wild Wild West -- but I won't get into a discussion of that kind of gimick.

Mannix was certainly true to its time period -- true to the technology -- while being way ahead of its time in inter-personal relationships, and, of course, character studies.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCCLOUD 

I still think that CBS abandoned the teaser for all its drama shows after the 1971-1972 Season. Shows through the 1971-1972 Season had teasers -- The Wild Wild West 1965-1969 All 4 Seasons, Hawaii Five-O 1968-1972 4 Seasons, Mannix 1967-1972 5 Seasons, Cade's County 1971-1972, Cannon 1971-1972 etc. It seems to have been a network decision that did not have anything to do with a specific show like Mannix. It would be interesting if anyone could come up with a drama show on CBS that aired from 1972-1973 Season on that had a teaser before the opening credits. If anyone knows of one please post!
Thanks!
Robert

Possibly Mission: Impossible's seventh and final season, from the 1972-73 season?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCCLOUD 

I still think that CBS abandoned the teaser for all its drama shows after the 1971-1972 Season. Shows through the 1971-1972 Season had teasers -- The Wild Wild West 1965-1969 All 4 Seasons, Hawaii Five-O 1968-1972 4 Seasons, Mannix 1967-1972 5 Seasons, Cade's County 1971-1972, Cannon 1971-1972 etc. It seems to have been a network decision that did not have anything to do with a specific show like Mannix. It would be interesting if anyone could come up with a drama show on CBS that aired from 1972-1973 Season on that had a teaser before the opening credits. If anyone knows of one please post!
Thanks!
Robert

Robert,

I can't think of any!

On NBC, I think Hill Street Blues had a teaser during the 80's.  They used to open each show in the daily briefing, if memory serves. And, another series that used a teaser all of its three years was I Spy -- but that ran on NBC and, of course, was also only in the 60's -- same for Star Trek.

But, if you limit it to the 70's and CBS -- you have me there!  Teasers certainly used to be the order of the day, and then they simply seemed to disappear -- all at once.

Did MI lose its teaser in later years?  There seem to be conflicting posts, in that regard.

Interestingly, the shows I am watching from s6 of Mannix still have a segment which was clearly intended to be a teaser, but which does not run as one.  So, you see this short opening which would clearly have ended in a frame that would have gone into the old Mannix opening -- but, instead, it just goes straight to the next scene.     The writers clearly did not catch up with the network mandate, if there was one -- more evidence of the tension between corporate interests and artistic endeavors.

I wonder what would have caused CBS to have that kind of a mandate!

If all of Mannix, MI and HFO changed from having a teaser to not having a teaser, all in the same year -- 1972, that would be a lot of evidence!

The sales of s6 of Mannix remain strong going into its third week after release, especially on dvdempire.com, where it's current sales rank is 32 -- and it is number 22 on the list of top 100 bestselling DVDs (the one updated weekly).  It's nice to see it on the first page of that list, even if the image on the front of the package is the worst of the six so far...

It's current sales rank on bn.com is 99 today as well -- which is very, very good.

And, the amazon.com numbers aren't quite as dramatic as during the first week of release (which is to be expected), but they are still good.

Mannix fans might not like to write a whole lot about the show -- and it may be one of the few iconic shows of the 60's and 70's for which no attempt at a re-make or reunion has been done (are there an others?) -- but the love for the show runs deep.  And deservedly so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaveCrest 

Possibly Mission: Impossible's seventh and final season, from the 1972-73 season?

Richard,

Good question -- if they forced a new opening for the last season of MI, in conjunction with forcing a new opening for Mannix and HFO in the same year, I'd be very interested in that!

Did Medical Center have a teaser?  I know it ran on CBS -- and I watched that whole thing, first run....  but I can't remember.

I once read in a review on amazon that it caused someone to become a doctor -- sure hope I never run into them as a doctor....

OK, I realize that some are annoyed at verbosity -- probably quietly annoyed.  But, then again, no one forces you to read anything.

And, I've been more verbose lately than even the norm -- but that is for a personal reason that just happens to coincide with the release of s6.   Due to some personal circumstances, it turns out to be, well, just fun and something of a release to write about Mannix just now.

Given that, I hesitate to put out a link for the amazon review I just wrote for s6 -- in the fears that people will take their angst out and vote it down.   In the perhaps overly optimistic hopes that the opposite will happen, here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RVQHE5KUHNCUS/ref=cm_cr_dp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0064NLSDK&nodeID=2625373011&tag=&linkCode=

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashgear 


JoAnne, I enjoy your posts re: Mannix...I've only watched the first 2.5 seasons on dvd thusfar...Your comments about the bomb shelter in that Campanella episode and your observations about the 60s - 70s tech on display corespond to mine...I remember the Cuban missile crisis...hurried drills at school, being sent home with civil defense brochures...a booklet titled "If war should come"...still have it...describing a likely Soviet 5 Megaton H bomb attack on my hometown of Calgary, Canada...I was only 7 at the time but remember grown ups being very worried and tense...I've actually been in a few cold war bunkers and bomb shelters...funny how even though the threat of such attacks has only likely increased since then, the subject doesn't seem to have the same prominence in our pop culture of today as it did during the 60s and 70s...maybe just another effect of our "dumbing down" as a people?...Ha, Ha...
I used to use a car phone way back when it would amaze most people...and a early phone fax machine that came in a large briefcase...it would take 7 minutes to scan and send one page...I would have to partially dismantle a phone hookswitch to connect it...when I did this to a payphone on some small town's mainstreet, crowds of locals would gather to watch and/or question me about what the hell I was doing...police were called on more than one occasion....I think some of them thought I was a spy or something, no telephone company i.d. and all that....different times, indeed...I get a charge out of the old cars, furnishings, fashions in vintage TV shows, but I'm there for the performers, stories, action and laughs of these great old shows, Mannix included...I wonder if Joe Mannix was ever depicted using an early portable fax machine?

Randall,

Thanks very much -- the problem with being different is that you are never quite sure if you are connecting.   And, when you couple that with being passionate about something, reality checks can be very much in order!

Regarding the level of threats today vs. 40 years ago and the level of prominence -- I've thought the same thing!   People seem to forget so easily, but there are lots of people walking around who should remember what it was like to live through the cold war -- and the constant, ever present threat of nuclear attack, complete with labels on the sides of buildings and special, stocked rooms in the basements as ever-present reminders.  Maybe that is one reason we had better heroes back then?    Because, you are so right -- now, everything just feels.... "dumber" -- that is a really good word for it!   I'd say both dumber and less intense.   I'm sure the politicians prefer it that way -- it makes them feel as if they are doing their jobs to keep everyone in a blissful state of ignorance.  And, I'm not saying that some sort of attack is going to happen and so we should fear it -- far from it.  But, the threat of nuclear holocaust -- remember, this was only 20-25 years removed from when nuclear bombs actually were dropped on two major cities in Japan -- coupled with the information and entertainment provided on only three networks -- led to a kind of sense of direction that seems missing today.  Everything is a trade-off, and the good thing about today is the ease of global exchange of information -- which leads to things like this forum.  But, that has resulted in a kind of equivocation -- all information is valued pretty much the same.  All ideas are valued pretty much the same.  The world is, indeed, flat (as Tom Friedman would say).  The problem is, those mountains are what cause us to want to climb.

The FAX machine story is funny!  I never did dig into the phone jack and wire up a FAX machine -- but I know a colleague who did that in hotel rooms.  And I definitely do remember the minutes-long FAXes.   Heck, I'm old enough to remember in the early 80's when we hooked up two DEC VAX computers 3 miles apart, between two different sites, using an acoustic coupled modem -- and spent the afternoon thrilled when we saw a single line of text transmitted between the two sites!  And I am "only" 50 years old!

To my knowledge, Joe Mannix never used a FAX of any kind.  

Even if it were possible to re-create Mannix, which I really doubt, I've wondered how the technology would affect things.   Still, I think that is far more solvable problem than having the public accept the style of the show - the beatings, fistfights, etc...  That is too bad, because those things really are deeply symbolic of the kinds of things we need to work out inside ourselves -- in order to be good individuals.  And, of course, Mannix was such a creation of Mike Connors, that if there would be another character even remotely similar, it would have to be owned by another actor -- and so would be different.  It's just that today we have nothing nearly as symbolic or intense -- because we, in general, are happier being dumber and less intense.