A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

When you say it's grain reduced, do you say so because you think or know there should be more grain even from the camera negative, or do you see explicit artifacts typical of grain reduction? Did you see any smearing, flickering, ghosting or other anomaly typical of grain reduction?

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Fantastic. Needless to say many here will be all over this one. How many of us remember back in the late '80s owning this vhs and using it as a demo! Then the laserdisc, the THX-AC-3 laserdisc, then the overcooked bass version of the non-anamorphic original dvd, then the Spec. Collector's Edition in 2005.....and now-finally, a high definition version!

I feel the need.....The Need For This HD DVD.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Still don't know about picking this one up, as the last DVD edition with the DTS sound still blows the doors off my HT. And, after getting this one on VHS, LD, and DVD, I'm a little burned out on Maverick and Goose.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Thanks Robert.

Is this OAR?

And to paraphase you ( ;-) ):
Paramount has pulled out all the special features.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

does it have the trailer?

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

As far as I know...
NADA!!!

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Oh you've got to be kidding. There's NO extra features? Zero?!! It's barebones? Bare-bones?! They didn't port over anything from the SD SE?!

Why didn't they go the Transformers route and drop the TrueHD for DD+ if there's not enough room on the disc to port over extras? If Spinmaster over on AVS says there's no difference between the audio it must be fact, right?

Seriously though, when oh when are these 51G discs coming so we won't have to deal with this nonsense anymore?! BTW If there is space and they're intentionally not giving us existing extra's then what the hell is up with that?

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Given that HD DVD just released an extended version of Troy that runs 190+ minutes and supports a Dolby True HD soundtrack, I seriously doubt space was an issue on this release.

I don't know what the studio was thinking giving us a barebones release of this film but they probably figure everyone already owns 5 version of this film so they don't need all the extras at this time. They can give us all the extras in HD in a year or two on the inevitable double dip Goosed Edition...

Thankfully, I have never bought a copy of this so I don't feel too guilty picking it up. Although it is not one of my favorite TC films so I may still give it a miss.

Dave

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Thx, RAH.

Will look forward to a full review to confirm the absence of supps but, if accurate--as much as I've been looking forward to having this one on the shelf (after skipping the 2-disc SD SE in anticipation of a high def release)--Par have just given me an excuse to spend my money elsewhere and simply Queue this one up at Nf. A re-release would be inevitable and there's a ton of other things to buy.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Watched it last night (ok, twice), there are no extras, not including English sountracks: DD+, DTS 6.1 Dolby TrueHD 5.1. I agree with Robert, I've never seen it look this good, and the sound was incredible.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Not even the Jerry, Tony and Naval reps commentary.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Mr. Harris would you happen to know if this film was shot before the introduction of T-grain films? I know they became available sometime around 86 or 87 but not sure exactly when. Being that Top Gun was shot in super 35 I'm wondering just how prominent the grain is if it used a non t grain stock.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

At the risk of angering some people with the idea, is it so wrong to look at the 2004 release as the SD extras for the 2007 HD DVD release?

Take a look at the extras that are available:

• 4 Music Videos
• TV Spots
• 6-part documentary "Danger Zone: The Making of Top Gun"
• Multi-angle storyboards with optional commentary by Director Tony Scott
• Behind-the-scenes Featurette
• Survival Training Featurette
• Tom Cruise Interviews
• Production Photography

This "extras" disc is available now at Amazon for $9.99.

While it would be wonderful if all the extras that were provided on all HD releases were in HD, many times, they are not. (Is it possible that the extra content wasn't shot on film, but on SD video?) Given that, having SD extras on an HD DVD is the same as having the SD DVD with the extras on it.

Considering that Top Gun on HD DVD is available at Amazon for $19.95, we're talking a very low priced title when compared to the more feature-laden titles.

To get Top Gun on HD DVD and get the "extras" disc (albeit in SD, but you also get a combo-like full version of the movie, complete with DTS 6.1 sound), you would be spending $29.94, which isn't all that different from many new releases, especially the combos.

So yeah, label me a heretic and don't invite me to playgroup for the next week or so, but I'm not as concerned with all the cool extras if the core delivery of the movie's picture and sound are top-notch. Bringing out movies without special features was common with DVD's introduction, too, only to see feature-laden Special Editions come out once if not twice or three times afterwards.

Top Gun on HD DVD is not being sold as a "Special Edition" or "Limited Collector's Edition" so there should be no expectation of lots of extras or new content for this release.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

I am one who doesn't care about extras at all, I don't watch them. I'll be picking this one up for certain, a very fun popcorn movie.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

I hear ya' Scott but, as anyone who's read the thread anticipating the Titanic SE SD DVD knows, I've long been a critic of Par's repeat offender status in these regards.

There are those who'd prefer to not have multiple copies of a movie (I'm not necessarily one of them). There are those who feel that these types of release games--in which the studio misses an excellent opportunity to create the 'definitive' home vid release of a movie--have become more blatant throughout the SD DVD era (I'm one of them).

And yeah the SD DVD is only $9.99 (even cheaper used). But it does smart a bit to have waited years for Par to finally release an anamorphic TG in I think 2004, then to not have purchased the SE for over two years because it was a safe bet that the pic would be amongst Par's early HD DVDs, to now be looking at purchasing anyway just to get supps that it's a safe surmise Par strategically, purposefully left off so they can re-release the title with them in, say, 2 years when there are more HD households.

This from the same studio that's finally giving us a Braveheart SE this fall.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Yes...
butt should there be an expectation of ANY extras?
Or, new content from this new release?
We get neither.
We get nada.

LD brought in the era of extras on Home Video releases.
SD DVD, carried on that tradition.
Now the "next generation" gives us nothing.
Not an old commentary.
Not even one trailer.

Hey, if your cool with that, your cool with that.
However, where did you get the idea, after LD & SD DVD, that we shouldn't expect anything at all on a title that has previously been loaded w/extras?

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Finally got a clue to the answer to this.
With a lot of help, of coarse.

"TG" was release in 70mm & 35mm.
So there are a couple of ratios to choose from; as well as a multitude of framing possibilities.
Funny thing is, this one isn't the best choice.
My personal fave ratio (and the most "natural" of all) is & was found on the WS LD & original SD DVD release. Go figure!

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

I thought the framing seemed a little different in some scenes than I remembered it being.

Has anyone else noticed haloing akin to edge enhancement during the opening flight deck sequence? The rest of the movie is great but the haloing in the opening scene is a little distracting.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

I watch a bit of this last night. I noticed the halos at the beginning and thought that the optical titles were a little blown out. Color seemed brighter than I remember but that could just be the nature of the HD-DVD being more accurate.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Anyone hear of a Blu-ray import version yet?

Dan

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Top Gun was shot in Super 35, so depending on if they protected for it, the OAR could be 1.37:1, 1.85:1, 2.25:1 or almost anything in between. It was released in theaters as a scope 35mm print at 2.35:1. I don't know if the 70mm prints accommodated the wider 2.35:1 ratio or not. Most likely not.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Paramount releases is films in over seas markets through United International Pictures, a company that they own jointly with Universal. Unless there is some market that Paramount releases in that doesn't use UIP, its unlikely you'll see a blu-ray release.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

In my DVD reviews (and the one HD DVD I've reviewed so far), I mention the extras that are included with the movie. It's disappointing to me when the disc doesn't contain the trailer, since nearly every movie made in the last, what, 50 years, has had at least one trailer produced for it. I like to watch the trailer because it gives me an idea of how the movie was marketed at the time.

But, as far as other extras go, no I don't expect to see lots of (or any) extras on a disc that is not labeled as a Special Edition, Collector's Edition, or some other marketing tag that sets an expectation of additional content in the movie, commentary, extras, etc. The Sony Superbit releases actually bragged about the fact that they didn't have any extras, so they could devote as much space as possible to the movie itself.

Do I like the extras? Definitely! While some are pretty bland and not worth the time, every once in a while I run across a movie that is enhanced by its extras. A recent example is Deliverance (see my review). I thought that the little featurettes with the main actors looking back on the production of the movie was a great way to appreciate the movie more than could be had by watching the movie only.

I'm a little torn as to how I would like to see the studios release movies on HD.

Part of me wants them to concentrate on doing an excellent job on the picture and audio and release the movie without a lot of extra features, especially if it means that the sticker price will be lower and/or it means that they can release the title more quickly. They can be upfront about the fact that this is the initial release, and that there will be another release that will include more content. Think of the theatrical releases of the LOTR movies as an example of this done well on DVD.

The other part of me wants the extended super-duper limited collector's edition, with everything but the kitchen sink thrown on the disc. The problem with this is that it will take longer for the title to be produced, they will likely want to charge more money for it, and if it's a popular title, it's going to be replaced at some point with another limited collector's edition with the unrated extended director's cut and one additional documentary previously unseen.

If I had to pick between the two, I guess I'd pick the first one. That gives the first release a low sticker price, gets it out into the market so that we can enjoy the movie in its HD glory. Then, when the next version comes out, we get to benefit from the advances in encoding and the extra time they will have had to put together all those cool extras.

Some movies don't warrant a double-dip, and that second release may never happen. In those cases, I guess it's better for the studio to do as much as they can for the one release that movie will have. (Can you imagine something like Evan Almighty coming back for a second dip?)

Also, in many cases, the extras for home video are being produced at the same time the movie is being produced, so those extras are ready by the time the movie is ready for home video release. If the stuff is ready, and its presence doesn't compromise the picture quality and audio quality, bring it on!

But don't expect all those extra features to come out on HD DVD or Blu-ray at a $19.95 price point any time soon.

Give me the movie in the best picture quality possible and the best audio possible, throw in the trailer in HD 5.1, and I'm a happy camper. If the studio is planning a special edition down the road, they should own up to the fact and tell us straight out.

Make us feel good about owning both editions, like New Line did with the LOTR movies, and it's a win-win situation!

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

You and I just have different (read: I have higher) expectations.

This is a false dichotomy. The HD formats have the capacity to do outstanding PQ and SQ -and- at least a good documentary on the making of/cultural impact of a film (particularly a film as impactful as TG, whose principals are largely all still alive and in the business [with the notable exception in this regard of Don Simpson].


The fact of the matter is that the success of the SD era has made it such that it is not in the studios' financial interests to be forthcoming about future SE plans. Couldn't you hear the Warner execs' groans when Zack Snyder's wife let the cat out of the bag about a future 300 SE BD at Comic Con?

You've said this twice now and, to the extent I understand your point, I think it's a very problematic and, frankly, disingenuous one.

We're not at the dawn of the SE era the way we were in earlier LD days. The fact of the matter is that, on catalog titles such as TG, we know supps exist already. It does not require significant capital outlays to port over those supps that have already been created.

Furthermore, after the studios took supp production in house after largely licensing it out during the LD days, we as consumers have now been weaned on 10+ years of special edition content. I don't think it unreasonable for there to be an expectation for the continuation NOW of what in no small part contributed to making collectors out of people who'd never bought movies before: releasing sturdy SEs.

And this business about not expecting an SE because it isn't labeled as such is messy. The only reason the studios aren't labeling it as such is because they will do so when they re-release the title in the future with the supps that some of us have already bought on SD and now want on the HD so we can sell that older disc. Again, they should do it right the first time.

It's my understanding that the October 30 issue of Daily Variety will be a special issue featuring a section on the state of DVD supplements production and their fate/role in the HD disc era. Ought to be an interesting read.

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Personally, I just want the movie. I have never and will never care about the extras. If the studios include them, I'll buy the title if I like it. If the studios cut them, I'll still buy the title because I like it and it's presented in the best possible audio and video available. And if the price is a bit lower because the disc is bare-bones, it's a win-win for me. Maybe I'm one of the few who do not expect all the bells and whistles available the first time around. Maybe that's why I drive a Toyota instead of a Lexus. It lasts as long and gets me where I need to go and costs less because I don't want all the extra stuff. I simply don't care about it.

Anyway, back to topic... Doesn't Top Gun in HD rock?!?

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Do we know that the extras on the 2004 DVD are available in a format that is conducive to HD resolutions? If the extras were shot on SD video, they would have to be upconverted, and I would rather them not include them if all they're going to do is upconvert them or provide them in 480p.

If those extras are on film, someone has to convert that film to HD, which is going to require time, effort, and money. I think it would be a lot of fun to see the principals involved brought back for their perspectives on the movie. With 21 years having passed, and Tom Cruise's career is definitely in a different place than it was back then, getting these actors back together could be very interesting. But I would imagine that creating new content for a Top Gun HD DVD Special Edition would be very time consuming and expensive, and we certainly wouldn't see that title on the shelves for $19.95.

There are some examples of HD DVD's that I've watched (can't think of which ones right off-hand) where they have a mixture of SD and HD extras, so that's an example where if they're going to go through the effort of including extras (and probably charging more because it will now be considered a Special Edition), they might as well provide a complete package.

You are right in that we have a dichotomy, and it's one that is not uncommon. There is an audience that wants to absorb every additional detail they can find, and there is an audience that places a much higher value on just watching the movie and the extras are just a nice add-on.

While I enjoy watching some extras at times, I have not watched the extras on many of the DVDs that I purchase or rent. In the case of the Top Gun DVD, I'm not even sure that I watched the extras they provided on there, even though I liked the movie. The same goes for the wealth of extras that are on the LOTR DVDs, and I really liked those movies!

The presence of extras are something that may push me over the edge in the decision of whether to buy or rent a movie. In that respect, the extras are important to the studio, because I can imagine that they want me to buy it instead of rent it. In the case of Top Gun on HD DVD, I have it from Netflix right now, and I'll decide from there if it's worth picking up as demo material (even at the nice price it's being offered at).

Bottom line is that I don't think it's unfair, misleading, or unreasonable for Paramount to have produced a bare bones version of Top Gun and offer it for sale for $20.

Everyone is free to have their own position on that topic, and I respect and understand your desire to have a more featured-filled version.

After putting some more thought into this subject, I think that there is some interesting discussion to be had about extras and the value they represent. I've created a new thread titled "Thoughts about extras on HD DVD and Blu-ray" to discuss this topic in more detail, but it reaches beyond the Top Gun HD DVD release. I am very interested in continuing the discussion over there!

Re: A few words about...™ Top Gun -- in HD

Responsive comments here.