Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work... - Page 2

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

I'll need six cables to connect the 5.1 analogs from player to receiver? Or, do some companies (maybe Blue Jeans?) make a special "single" cable with six RCA plugs at each end?

Man, you guys must hate people like me who ask these types of questions.

EDIT** Never mind. I got my answer at the Blue Jeans site:



Wow. Expensive. But they look like a very high quality cable.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Actually, the Onkyo 705 and above can overlay DSP processing on 5.1 LPCM (mine does it just fine with both my Tosh XA1 and Samsung 1400). The 605 can't do this.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Just wanted to say that this thread has been very helpful for me, as I have had the same questions as the Nick guy, and have been interested in that same Onkyo receiver.

The comment of Deep Color transmitting to a HD TV vs displaying on a HD TV was surprising. It's another frustrating little detail (for "future proofing") that I never would have thought about. Then again it doesn't look like there is any Deep Color High Def DVD Content out there at all...though it will probably arrive.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

I have new questions because of the new audio formats.

I went and hooked up the DMP-BD10 to my receiver (Sony STRDE-445) via the 5.1 analog connections. After doing a fair amount of A/B listening, it became clear pretty quickly that many of the uncompressed PCM tracks were quite a bit superior to the downmixed HD 5.1 tracks fed over my coaxial cable.

My question now is this. Is it ONLY Uncompressed PCM tracks which are carried over the analog cables? Does this set-up work with any of the other tracks offered on a Blu-ray disc?

Panasonic's website says the BD10 can decode the following formats: DD, DD+, Dolby True HD, DTS, DTS HD.

So, am I to assume that for any of these formats I should use the analog 5.1 connections rather than the coaxial?

I made the mistake recently of listening to half of Pixar's Cars over the analog connections while defaulted to the Dolby 5.1 track. The sound was really lackluster (subdued even) compared to the uncompressed 5.1 track over the same analog connection.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Anything the player can decode can be played through the 5.1 analogs, so yes you can and should use them for DD, DD+, Dolby True HD, DTS, DTS HD (DTS HD will only be the core on the BD10).

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

I don't have the manual handy, but I believe that only applies to DTS-HD MA. I believe the BD10 can handle DTS-HD (the lossy-but-not-as-lossy version).

You can use the 5.1 for all those formats. Whether you should is another matter. For those occasional discs where the best available soundtrack is regular DTS or DD, I prefer to use an S/PDIF connection, because my Lexicon has better digital processing than the BD10. But if I left it on the 5.1 analog connections, it would still work.

That's not surprising. For starters, it was probably 4db lower, due to dialnorm.

M.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Right. I find it only pays to use the 5.1 analogs when a BD disc offers one of the uncompressed audio formats.

I've tried listening to a 5.1 DD or DTS soundtrack over the 5.1s and it doesn't come close to when I play it back over the coaxial and have the Sony decode the audio.

That seems odd to me (that there would be such a dramatic difference--when the uncompressed tracks sound SO good over the analog 5.1s).

Does it logically follow then that if I upgraded my receiver and went HDMI that I would hear an improvement in the uncompressed tracks then by listening over the 5.1s (because the receiver might handle the decoding better than the player)? Not that there will be a receiver upgrade at any time in my near future...

Thanks!

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Theoretically, the lossless tracks should decode to the exact same bit-for-bit stream, whether decoded in the player or in the receiver (that's what "lossless" means). Now what is done after the decoding (D->A processing, any DSP's that are applied, etc.) is another story.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

In all likelihood, the DACs in your receiver are better than those in the player. As a rule, most of the investment in manufacturing a player goes to the video side.

I suspect that would be the case, but I can't confirm it from experience. I'm in the same boat!

M.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Well, I guess I've just had my first experience where I have been less-than-impressed by the audio on a Blu-ray disc. I was expecting big things from Pixar's Wall-E...but have, instead, found that, while the audio is clear as a bell and especially well-defined, the bass is exceptionally lacking.

As noted awhile back in this thread, I'm using the 5.1 analog outs on a Panny BD-10.

Should I assume it's because the mix is a 6.1 DTS HD MA and the analogs are simply passing along a down-rezzed signal which doesn't come close to matching the original? Many others are talking about how this soundtrack is shaking their house. I'm not getting anything close to that experience.

Switching the audio over to my coaxial connection (bitstreamed) doesn't seem to help any. In fact, it seems to have even less "oomph" than over the analogs.

One other fella--who has a similar set-up to mine--reported the same findings in the review thread. Everyone else is raving about the audio track. Meanwhile, I am underwhelmed. Most of my other audio experiences using the analogs have been terrific.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

I don't fully understand this yet either, however from what I have read the only true way to actually output the DTS-MA tracks is through an HDMI connection. Or at least that is the information that has been fed to me.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

This is incorrect. These tracks can be passed via the 5.1/7.1 analog connection as well.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

I think this is the right thread for this question . . . I've got the Sony 550 BD player, hooked up to my receiver via the 5.1 analog inputs--no coax or optical at all. From what I'm reading here, it seems that I *might* get better audio on DD 5.1 or DTS tracks by hooking up a coax cable (depending on the quality of my receiver). However, what about a PCM track? Would it sound better, too? Isn't it digital, too? Is it "decoded" like DD or DTS, or just converted into analog? I'm not sure I understand the difference there, or if there even is a difference. If it is decoded, this is done in the player (since I'm sending over analog outputs), right ?

On the latest Rush BD, for instance (Snakes and Arrows concert), I can listen to either the DTS-HD MA track, or stereo PCM. When I select PCM, what exactly is happening as it goes to the receiver over the 5.1 analog outputs? I ask because I can select several "input modes" on my receiver: analog, digital manual, automatic, and 6-channel input. These are the options on a single input selection (the 5.1 inputs, in this case). So while I'm listening to PCM in this way, I can choose to do so either with the "6-channel" choice, or the "analog" choice. (These are the only realistic choices, because selecting "digital manual" gives no sound, while automatic defaults to analog.) When I select "analog," PCM stereo sounds *a lot* better than when I select "6-channel input." There is much more bass, and a fuller sound.

So obviously, this is something my receiver itself is doing, since I'm not changing a thing on my BD player, and the only audio cables I have hooked up are the 5.1 analog. And since these *are* analog cables, I assume that the D>A conversion has already taken place inside the player before sending it out over the cables (and this happens no matter which audio track I select, right?).

So my question is: what exactly is my receiver doing to this PCM signal? If it's already analog--because it's going out/in analog outputs/inputs--then why does it sound so much better when I select "analog" as the input mode? How is this any different from selecting the "6-channel input" option? The cables remain the same. The D>A conversion has already taken place (I assume). So what's left for the receiver to be doing that causes such a drastic difference? It can't even be spreading the sound over all my speakers (thus "diluting" the stereo sound like a DSP), because the sound remains limited to my 2 mains even when I pick "6-channel input" for a PCM stereo track.

My receiver is a low- to mid-range Kenwood VR 6050, about 7 years old.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Ok, now I'm even more confused. I just did some quick experiments after that last post. I've set the audio priority on my Song 550 to "multichannel." But on my receiver, when I select "aux" as the input, I'm getting sound that is being passed over the HDMI cable hooked directly to my TV (by-passing the receiver), and then going from the TV to my receiver via two RCA cables connected to my TV's analog outs and my receiver's 2-channel stereo analog inputs.

Ok, now for the confusing part: why am I getting any sound through the HDMI at all, when I've set the player's audio priority to multichannel analog outputs? And why does PCM stereo sound *better* through this choice than over 5.1 analog? Even stranger: why does the DTS-HD MA track sound better than the PCM this way? It can't be lossless. I'm not even sure what it is, since it's going out to the TV over HDMI and to my receiver through stereo RCA cables.

Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

PCM = raw uncompressed, unencoded digital sound, as used on a music CD, except that CD is limited to 2 ch 16 bit/44.1khz, while BD can be up to 7.1 ch with higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample.

PCM is the result of DD/DTS after decoding. This can be sent over HDMI digitally to a compatible receiver. Only 2-ch PCM or encoded DD/DTS can be sent over optical/coax SPDIF. Or you can convert this to analog and send over multi-ch RCA connections.

I think this player sends multi-ch to the output set as "priority" with downmix 2-ch PCM to the other outputs.

As for what you are missing when using multi-ch, probably it is bass management. Are you sure your speaker settings in the Sony are correct? Most of the time you want to set your speakers to "small" so that bass is redirected to your sub. Use the test tone and level match also.

Your receiver probably disables bass management when set to multi-ch in. So if bass was not being redirected to your sub (speakers set to "large"), and your speakers are smallish satellites, that would explain anemic bass.