Cop outburst caught on dashcam

Re: Cop outburst caught on dashcam

sounds a whole lot like plenty of times that i have been pulled over unfortunately.

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Good thing he "just happened" to have that audio/video system set up in his car, huh?

We are all human, including the police, and if our buttons get pushed enough, there will be the high probability of something bad being said or done.

IMHO, the young man was trying to provoke something and get it on tape. Looks like he succeeded.

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Sorry but these rationalizations just don't wash.

I have no doubt that the young man was trying to provoke the officer but the reality is the officer is suppose to be a professional and this one certainly is not. His performance was an embarrassment to himself and an embarrassment to the profession. Even if this is a one time event he should lose his job but he probably won't.

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This guy is on record that his mission is to go out and try to provoke cops to get a reaction. I just don't get that mentality.

I can't agree with Patrick about the rationalization not washing. Yes what the cop did was wrong, and he should get an appropriate amount of punishment based on what he did, but to expect police to be something other than human, with other than human reactions to provocations is unrealistic, IMHO.

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That's all very well and good, as long as you remember it later. There is a very prevalent attitude, both among the police and among the general public, that a patrolman is something more than human, that he is Authority personified and can do no wrong. If we excuse his faults, we cannot treat him as infallible.

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Walking up to a parked car at night in an empty parking lot is very high on the list of stressful things a policeman can do. It's akin to doing a traffic stop along a quiet highway or road at night which, any cop will tell you, is one of the most dangerous and stressful things they do in their day to day job.

Threatening to make up up charges....not a good thing to do obviously, and he should be discplined for it. Firing him straight off because of this would be absurd however. He should be evaluated psychologically and a judgement should then be made to determine if he's fit to be out there on the street or not.....This would be the approprate way to walk the line between expecting cops to be perfect vs. understanding that they are indeed human.

The kid, whoever he is, should be arrested and charged with whatever crime applies to his actions. What he did was intentionally occupy this police officers time to provoke him, and this intentional act on his part took that police officer and made him unavailable to do the job he was hired to do in situations where he is truly needed. This is akin to making a false report of a fire to the fire department, and puts the safety and well being of people and communities unncessarily at risk.

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He did? I didn't see him flip off the cop and speed off. Heck he put on his blinkers for both turns we see and stopped in a public parking lot. He then asked the #1 question you are supposed to ask a cop, "what did I do?" The cop didn't reply and instead went on a power trip. If anything, the kid kept a belligerent cop out of public harm for 10 minutes.

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The lot the driver pulled into is a commuter lot that is open to the public 24/7. That fact alone means the officer really didn’t have any reason to come up to the driver in the first place. Also the lot was not empty. That possibly might be the reason why the officer decided to confront the driver but the driver didn’t park next to any of the other cars. So now pulling into a public lot that is open 24/7 is considered suspicious activity? Not really, in a practical sense every ticket he writes and every arrest he makes would be subject to question. He is on tape admitting that he has the power to create what ever charges he wants just to ruin someone’s night. Every attorney would use that to fight any arrest or ticket he is involved with and justifiably so. His actions have made him a liability to the force and the legal system. At this point the only sensible action is to fire him. Simply unbelievably obtuse in it’s logic. Pulling into a public lot that is open is not a crime. Please point out how he intentionally occupied the officer’s time?

By the way here are some updates on the story.

The officer has been suspended without pay pending review. I’m glad it is without pay since he doesn’t deserve a paid vacation for his thuggish behavior.

The chief is on public record as saying the “officer's actions were not justified”.

The DA is investigating to see if charges will be filed against the officer.

And one last tidbit, this police department’s policy is that any contact the officer has with the public has to be on tape via the video camera installed in the officer’s car. Inexplicably the video from the officer’s car is missing.

This officer is toast.

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The cop was obviously out of control, but he didn't get an attitude until the driver gave an attitude first. I have been pulled over twice for speeding, and deserved it both times. One officer chose to give me a ticket, one officer let me off with a warning. In both cases, I was courteous to them and they were courteous right back. In the later case, the officer gave me directions to my destination.

The public is outraged whenever a public servant loses his cool. I've been a public servant off and on for the past six years, and I can tell you that I've seen people that make that cop look like a gentleman. I never lost my cool, and I'm not forgiving his behavior one iota. But people in this country need to remember that a little decency and respect go a long way.

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Anyone else wonder if this kid knew this was going to happen or wanted it to happen? I mean, why else setup a camera on your own dash firing backward and park in an empty commuter parking lot? What the heck was he hoping to video otherwise? Darkness?

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In a news interview he said he has been driving with a camera for quite some time after getting a ticket he said he didn't deserve. How much of that you want to believe is up to you.

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This supposed victim is the owner and originator of the video, thus he has shown and/or released only what he wants the public to see. Someone with the technical skills to hardwire and permanently install a video camera into a vehicle, certainly has the ability to purchase and operate off the shelf video editing equipment and software. If nothing else, he controls when it is on or off. It is very easy to perform a dangerous moving violation with the camera off, and only turn it on for the traffic stop itself.

I cannot take someone at face value who says it's their mission to get cops for a supposedly undeserved ticket years ago.

And the above statement does nothing to diminish my opinion that the cop should be sanctioned for losing his cool.

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You can't be serious:


Where is the "attitude" from the driver? A cop drives up to you in a commuter lot, you wouldn't have asked those questions? You wouldn't have asked what you did wrong? I do not see a single question there that was not warranted or was meant to bait. The last question is the quote "I'm what?" came because the officers previous statement was slurred and unintelligible (watch the video again).

People's judgement is being corrupted by the knowlege of the driver's intent. That intent in obvious later in the confrontation. He is clearly baiting. But at the time the cop lost his cool, the driver had said absolutely nothing wrong and out of the ordinary.

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H

Re: Cop outburst caught on dashcam

Link

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Something about this whole thing still smacks wrong. I'm wondering what we are not seeing.

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Yep. There isn't much out there though, especially when people get behind the steering wheel. We've had these discussions before, but what is it that make people feel like gods when they are driving a car?

Maybe it will be a good thing when we run out of gas and are forced to walk or ride horses again.

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Looking at things from from the cop's perspective, it is well known that car stops are the most dangerous part of that job. In an area known for break-ins you see a car after midnight turn onto a street that has no other way out (you can see the "no outlet" sign when he makes the turn) and park into a commuter lot. Commuter lots are generally disused that time of night, so coupled with the reports of car break-ins, the car that just passed you and parked is suspicious. When you walk up to the car, the person is not lost & looking at a map, or pulled over momentarily to talk on a cell phone; they are just sitting there. Also suspicious. Also, various electronics are plainly observable in the car including a police scanner monitoring transmissions (which can be heard up to and including when the police lights come on). If I were a cop, at that point all these things would be adding up wrong, and all kinds of bells and whistles would be going off. Is this person here to commit suicide? To ambush me? To break-in to a car? I think a reasonable person would be pretty apprehensive in that situation.

Now it turns out he was just there to bait the cop into a confrontation, but the cop didn't know that initially and had to go through all the other "what if"'s going through his head. I think I would be pretty upset after coming off an adreneline dump like that.

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I agree. That was completely unjustified and the officer should be punished.

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Even if he way trying to bait the cop, what lead up to this?
With out a really long post with all the details I will summarize my experiences with the NJ State Police. My first 2 cars were a Falcon station-wagon then a van with no windows. I was never pulled over. My friend had the 4 door Falcon with a lifted rear and sporty tires. He was always getting pulled over. Once when I was with him, 4 cop cars pulled us over in the middle of the 4 lane street with guns drawn hiding behind their doors. After they searched us and the car, they said "sorry wrong car I guess".
Then I got into the monster 4X4 truck scene. I might as well have hung a "pull me over" sign on the back of my truck. I got pulled over at least one every 2 months never got a ticket, but always harassed. I had one cop search my truck, threaten to shoot my dog, gave me a ticket that I know for a fact I wasn't speeding. When I questioned him about how the radar works, he replied " I see you truck on this road all the time. If you fight this in court, you will be seeing much, much more of me." I was pulled over again and again after that.
As I was pulling in to the driveway of my honeymoon hotel with a just married sign on the back, a cop followed me in. I said "good evening" to which he replied "Did I say you could talk?" I had a until then happy bride with me and a $300. per night room, with our privet swimming pool waiting, so I was on my best behavior. I hadn't even drank at the reception for fear of being pulled over. I can only imagine what would have happened if I said anything else. He gave me a ticket for the licence plate light being out. I could see in my side mirrors that it was working fine and I had just passed state inspection 3 days earlier. Needless to say the first few hours of married life didn't go as planned. Once I sold the truck (baby came along) I have been pulled over only once in 13 years for a speeding ticked that I deserved.
I looked into getting a voice activated tape recorder to keep in my truck. Not to trap a cop, but to defend myself in court if needed. This guy may have had previous experiences that made him carry a recorder.

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Since we're reaching to far to make excuses for this guy, why don't we decide that he lost his partner two months ago in a similar incident, that's an even better explanation . Seriously, the above is an awful lot of pure speculation. Let me add my own: Nothing that I can hear in that officer's voice indicates the kind of caution and wariness you suggest. The guy sounded annoyed almost right off the bat.

I don't think he should lose his job over this unless there is a history of precedents. Some kind of disciplinary action should suffice. People say dumb shit when they're pissed. This guy was clearly having a bad night. It happens...

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H

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No matter what the situation, the first thing a cop will do is ask someone for their ID.

Whether you did anything or not, youre expected to show it.

Resistance to do so sets off alarms.

I agree this guy was out of control and probably has been a cop for too long, but also agree with Carls comment about the kid (w/ the intention of deliberately pissing the cop off).

"Not to trap a cop, but to defend myself in court if needed."

I went to court to defend myself for a ticket once. My very first ticket when I was 17 years old. I havent since. The cop had exaggerated the speed I was going. I waited for 4 hours to get up there, explained what happaned and was found guilty. Its always possible the cop wont show, but you can never win by pleading your case with the judge. So I wouldnt waste my time going to court, sitting for hours only to be told "Guilty. Pay the man".


"This guy may have had previous experiences that made him carry a recorder."

It was entrapment. He was completely uncooperative and gave answers and behaved in a manner he knew would piss the cop off.

Im not on the cops side, I think hes a asshole. But not on the kids either. I think he was just as wrong.

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Jon, how was he uncooperative in the exchange I quoted earlier?

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H

Re: Cop outburst caught on dashcam

Holadem,
Youre quote ended before he said "I can park right here". But its not just words, but also the tone being used.

Once I got pulled over in a pretty foul mood, which but put me in a really bad mood, because I didnt do anything wrong. I was moving along under the speed limit. I saw the cop in his rear view turn around. He asked for my license and I said to him "You want to tell me what the hell you pulled me over for" and he responded "Ill be happy to, after Ive seen your license" (I was dirivng my G/Fs car and her plate light was out).

I was taught to have your license at the ready when approached by a cop.


Again I think the cop was wrong. But so was the kid. But I guess he got what he wanted.

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My quote ended at the first inappropriate behavior -- the police officer yelling. That, is the entirety of my point. Everything after that is irrelevant to my argument. For the records, I explicitly acknowledged earlier that the rest of the conversation is definitely a series of baits and abuse on both sides.

But nothing will change the fact that this cop went off unprovoked. Not even the fact that the driver was seeking a confrontation will change that. The two propositions may seem contradictory but they are not.

If we accept that the driver said nothing wrong or out of the ordinary up to the point where the officer yells, then it follows that anyone of us could have been that driver, and gotten yelled at for absolutely no good reason. That, is a problem.

If we disagree with the above premise and think the driver was out of line before the cop started yelling, then again, please tell me how. I am not interested in anything that happened afterwards, or the driver's intent. None of that changes the facts of the first few lines of this exchange.

How did the driver provoke the police officer into yelling?

Just about the only answer I got so far is:

This is subjective of course, but at the point that my argument is concerned with, I find nothing wrong or out of the ordinary with the driver's tone. I understand if you disagree, again this is subjective.

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This is what I am getting at:

Does inappropriate reaction to perfectly normal behavior become somehow justified because the intent behind the perfectly normal behavior is anything but normal?

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H

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Curious on what you consider to be speculation in my post you quoted, outside of the "why are you parked here". Everything else was observable on the video and can be articulated. In legal terminology, the totality of the circumstances would be reasonable suspicion that something was amiss and to investigate further.

I'm slightly incredulous that you would come down on me for putting myself in the cop's shoes and wondering why this car and driver were doing all these odd things that don't add up? After all, the "why" question was the whole reason for the stop.

You seem to have the opinion that the cop should have continued driving and left this fellow alone, and I submit that given all the circumstances surrounding the event, the cop would have been negligent if he hadn't looked into things. The pretext of the stop was good, it was the actions of the cop once the encounter started that got him into hot water.

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I contend that this driver did NOT exhibit perfectly nornal behavior. It is not normal to go into a high-crime area late at night and pull into a disused, unlit parking and sit. It is not normal for the average joe to have a hard-wired camera system mounted in a car, complete with operating scanner to monitor police frequencies.

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It sounds like there was a little bit of frustration/impatience in the drivers voice before the officer used an attitude... I'm not saying the attitude the cop used was right, though.

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I have $5 that says the officer will be back on payroll by week's end, this kid will be forgotten by Halloween, and the law enforcement practices of Whereverthehell will be back to "business as usual" in 2 weeks.