SACD: Is it time for the funeral? - Page 2

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Count me in as another person whose PS3 SACD capabilities is news to me. Can I get the benefits of the format via optical out though? What about digital coax?

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

SACD can be accessed via analog outs or HDMI (later versions).

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

This routine is almost choreographed: someone starts a thread proclaiming SACD and/or DVD-A dead and, in the case of the former, our Resident SACD Guru Danny Tse posts SA-CD.net stats and I post regarding how much I'm continuing to enjoy Telarc's ongoing stellar SACD output. No dis intended, Brian-W (and I'm down for any excuse to enjoy a nice bottle), but the biggest thing continued SACD death proclamations do is prove a rock bias on the part of the declarant, not make it true.

There's too many titles on my Wish List for me to afford. The latest covet is the first commercial recording made here at Walt Disney Concert Hall: Esa-Pekka Salonen and the L.A. Phil performing "The Rite Of Spring."

Yeah I started hoarding a year or so ago. My biggest concern is what an LD retailer called "walking dead titles" in a conversation with me many years ago: a distribber/retailer shows a listing but not until a special order is placed is it revealed that the title is OOP/otherwise unavailable. I wish I could afford to scoop up every one of the few dozen $14.99 DVD-A listings at Amazon I want in one fell swing. I do a couple per month.

The only new wrinkle to the choreography herein is that there are even savvy HTFRers who know what SACD is and who purchased a PS3 yet who are/were unaware that the piece plays SACDs (multichannel via HDMI only, Chris, so you'll need an HDMI receiver).

Thanks for all of your persistence, data, tracking and info, Danny.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Well yes, the SACD format is a blessing for classical nuts like me, but for others....

I dislike "video games" and would never purchase one. So the SACD playback capability of the PS3 is meaningless to me.

I went to the Sony site

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665228713

and even their flagship $1300 Blu-Ray disc player DOESN'T include SACD playback capability. The point being that Sony itself appears to have lost any interest in SACD as a consumer playback format.

I guess I can't pick on Sony. My brand-new Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD deck doesn't do DVD-A either.....

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Dennis:

Of course, an attribute--not as big as Sony crowed, but an attribute nonetheless--of the PS3 is its Blu-ray Disc playback ability.

Yes messy don't get me started on Sony not supporting their software format "children" in current hardware. Not only does the BDP-S1 not support SACD . . . that pricey deck doesn't play CDs either!

And yeah I think it's annoying and ironic that Panasonic supported DVD-A playback in their Blu-ray player, the DMP-BD10 and BD10A, before (DVD patent holder) Tosh supported DVD-A in one of their first NINE freakin' HD DVD players.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Not quite sure what you mean.

I love and support SACD. I'd be the last one to proclaim SACD dead. I'd prefer a few more rock titles but like you I can barely afford to stock up on the few (available) titles I do want.

And I love jazz so there is plenty to keep me happy. Tough part is figuring what to buy next because one is never sure which titles on the wishlist are the rarest.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Forgive me, Blair, I confused my Bs: I meant to refer to OP Brian-W. Quoted post changed accordingly.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

I enjoy the classical releases on SACD. The RCA Living Stereo and the Mercurty Living Presence releases are great - especially when most discs cna be had for around $10 CAD. There are other great classical releases, but the prices range from slightly higher to ridiculously higher.

It almost seems like classical is all that's being released on SACD now. Jazz releases used to be big a few years back as it's a genre that does cater to audiophiles, but those releases have slowed to a crawl now.

I too wish there were more rock/pop/folk/jazz releases. Why hasn't Mobile Fidelity picked up the slack with SACD releases for these genres? It's kind of frustrating that they're also releasing classical titles in SACD when there seems to be an abudance for the format. Why not fill a demand that noone seems to be supplying?

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

SACD appears to be gaining in popularity although Sony doesn't seem to be interested in releasing software. It may be Sony had designed Blu-ray to handle whatever market there is for high quality audio, but that format isn't exactly soaring either. Without universal support from manufacturers and software providers and with format wars like SACD vs. DVD-A and Blu-ray vs. HD DVD, it may be nobody will ever know if there is a market for high resolution lossless audio, including surround. I own all four formats and believe any one of them can deliver what we want, but the market only reacts well when there is no confusion and no concerns about the format being abandoned.

Sony spent more than enough money promoting SACD, the market just rejected the format but without DVD-A confusing matters, I think it would have done much better. I don't know what much better is, but being in about 35% of homes seemed attainable to me. None of the four high quality formats can reach the 95%+ of homes that CD and DVD enjoy, there just isn't adequate reason to replace those formats with the same thing only better, whether it is considered a lot better or only a little better.

I am trying to understand what is coming in terms of high resolution audio downloads. Dr. Waldrep with AIX has indicated for months he believes that will be the future.

Chris

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I disagree but that bush hath been beaten beyond recognition.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

I believe Linn Records and Music Giants are doing higher resolution downloads. In my opinion the average member (not an enthusiast as in someone you'd see visit this forum) of the buying public is more than happy with CDs or MP3s. So I don't believe that hi-rez no matter what format it is released on will be more than a niche market, unless everything is released on hi-rez at the same prices as std. media and std. media discontinued and it may sway some of those average members of the buying public that it is worth it. I don't see the record labels doing that. I agree that this topic has been beaten to death.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

35%? I don't see that at all... I'm not even sure 3.5% is attainable.

Basically all you need to do is look around and see how people are listening to music. How many people do you know who just sits (at home) and listens to music without doing anything else? There aren't that many people who listen to music that way, and of those who do (small portion) I'm sure CD and MP3 are perfectly fine with them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I never hear (outside of these forums) anyone stating that they want to upgrade their equipment so they can get improved sound for listening to music. Home theatre is what people enjoy most, music can be listened to on the boom-box, iPod, radio etc. The demand for improved audio for music is extremely limited.

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Could not be said better. I just looked at the 'Save SACD Petition' which I signed years ago. As of this writing a whole 2,985 people have signed it. If I'm an executive at a record co., regardless of my personal preferences, how do I justify the extra production costs unless I offer it as a deduction from my salary. I see records cos. (and Sony has done this already) as licensing certain titles to audiophile labels like Mobile Fidelity. Even counting those audiophile labels, there's hardly anything in the pop/rock category that has been released in the US in the past yr.

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Btw, speaking of that petition, another reason I think such entreaties to the labels and elegies such as this thread miss the mark is because if this tech/format is to continue for rock releases, it will be artist-driven. John Hiatt has praised the Sonoma Workstation and DSD technology he used for Master Of Disaster. Peter Gabriel has said he never wants to record in stereo again. I'd like to think both of these guys will release more rock SACDs in the future.

Find out who manages your favorite rockers and write them a letter encouraging SACD/multichannel release of both their catalog and any new work. Heck if my fave band Rush can FINALLY release a studio album in (dammit lossy!) surround, so can younger whippersnappers.

Enjoyable hobbyist discussion aside, I think that's time better spent than yet another thread debating the death of the format.

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I bought into SACD knowing full well it would fail to get as popular as sliced bread. I was always sure. The only question in my mind was how fast. I expected Sony to release more than they ever bothered with, in the end. Their token software suppourt the last few years is beyond token....what's the word for that....if any...token-aciously deprived.

From Sony's end, given Sony Music's actions, failure seems nearly preplanned....? A way to pump up player prices for awhile. Same for disc prices.

It's a miracle there's anybody releasing Sack-Dee's at this point. I'll keep buyin' a few....as long as they stumble out. I hope musicans keep it alive. Sony never cared, much.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Sony, and the other big labels, may have cared. But then all of their prayers were answered by sudden renewed intrest in vinyl. Who cares about hi-rez when you have slightly more difficult to pirate analog vinyl that even wears-out and needs replacement? This was their best news since pay-to-listen satellite radio.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

When it all started I thought the record companies should have surreptitiously made all releases on hybrids, minimize the SACD logo to reduce confusion. People with SACD players would pick up the SACD layer automatically anyway and joe public would be none the wiser / not worried about compatibility.

Then all stereo CD players could be SACD compatible going forwards so whenever someone buys a new CD player it would automatically pick up SACD

Something like HDCDs - most people have a lot more HDCDs than they know, and you didn't really pay attention until you got a new CD player and the little blue light comes on

oh, wait... another dead format

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

MS bought HDCD patent holder Pacific Microsonics. Whoooole 'nother kettle of fish.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

As a dvd-audio fanboy I have to throw this in: it was Sony (and Philips to a lesser extent) who started the hi-res format confusion.

Everyone else was all onboard with dvd-audio back in @1997 when Sony/Philips went their own way & threw a major wrench into the hi-res works.

I do like sacd's concentration on music, though if desired a dvd-audio disc CAN easily be made with no video and be controlled like a CD (the Elv1s dvd-audio from BMG came closest to this format).

And I bought that Rolling Stone magazine with the free sacd, which sounded very good & also included surround tracks (IMO the one feature of both hi-res formats that had a decent chance of helping the format sell to non-audio hobbyists).But to me its problem was choice of music: it was either classic rock, jazz-ish stuff or what's played on lite FM stations. In other words, "old-man" music, material sure to turn off most music fans under age 25. And from what I've read its people that age and younger that buy most of the music and very probably the gear its played on.

The PS3: by making the multichannel signal available only via HDMI, Sony severely restricted who can listen to the surround tracks - wtf? I mean, how many people much less non-audio hobbyists own receivers with an HDMI connection *and* which includes the ability to decode such a signal? And the sacd logo itself is buried along with a bunch of other ones on the casing & IIRC not highlighted in any way, I'm sure further adding to its who-cares image among the public. Sony the corporation is such a mess right now - it is sad to see them this way compared to what they used to be when I was growing up.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Heya Lance.

I betcha it's been covered and recovered here but might you have a link to a thread or, better yet, a concise early high rez audio history? The reason I ask is because I'm curious as to why--if indeed "everyone else was all on board with DVD-Audio in 1997"--did it take until I think 2000 for the spec to get finalized, for a select few DVD players to support the format and for receivers with 5.1 analog inputs to hit the market. Methinks it might have been a wee bit more complicated than everything having been hunky dory in 1997. I bet you, too, might even have a copy of Classic Records' music-only, 2-channel DVD of the Glory score. My understanding is that the label got tired of waiting for the DVD-A spec and decided to put 2-channel high rez aud in the area of the DVD where film sound would usually reside. That disc was released in 1998.

But of course you know that this has been the general direction of the anti-piracy impetus since the beginning. As long as SPDIFs and coax digital were not encrypted (and basically that's been the entire life of the formats), we haven't been able to pass high rez aud via a digital connection. Now that HDMI has been foisted upon us by the labels and movie studios, of course they're quick to make that encrypted connection the only means via which to get high rez aud. You know the PS3 does not have analog 5.1 outs, yes? They are slowly but surely disappearing from high def DVD players, too (only the top-of-the-line of the third gen Toshs has them, for instance).

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

They were releasing some interesting SACDs but their last few releases have been 24K Gold like the old days, not SACD.
Kind of has me worried about their future plans with this format.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

I'd imagine they'll still do some. It's probably a matter of getting the licensing rights to do the SACD. The Yes CD (vs. hybrid) Mofi did was probably a result of Yes being a Warner artist (I have the DVD-A they did of the album). Same is true of Natalie Merchant and Marc Cohn - both Warner artists.

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Yeah I, too, am concerned about the lack of SACD output by the new MoFi. I scooped up That's the Way Of the World (and gave the Sony remastered CD to my parents), but where's the rest of the SACD goodness?

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Does the PS3 convert SACD to multichannel PCM via HDMI, or does SACD playback require a receiver that actually decodes the SACD signal?

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I don't own it but I have read so many posts indicating it converts to PCM and is being used with HDMI 1.1 receivers with success that I am certain it does handle SACD in that manner. It sure seems like a great piece of hardware at the going price today, especially if you like SACD, Blu-ray discs and Blu-ray games.

Chris

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Aaron, it's not my understanding either that any kind of "DSD decoding" receiver is needed. The PS3 just must be connected to a receiver featuring HDMI version 1.1 or later.

Re: SACD: Is it time for the funeral?

Thanks for the info, guys. Good to know. I'll still have to keep my old player though, since it does DVD-A (and it'll probably be a while before I even get a receiver with HDMI).

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Understood, Brian. Let me re-phrase my responsive comments: shouldn't you/we be crankin' Let's Dance and Up and otherwise enjoying what we've got instead of typing about what we've not?

Aaron don't forget about that Panasonic if you're wanting to get into high def and leave only one high rez "man" behind: it's got analog 7.1 outs and, again, plays DVD-A.

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I don't have an HDMI receiver yet either but I do have the Oppo DV-980H that has the SACD option of pure DSD or conversion to PCM for use over HDMI. Will either method be any better than using the analog connections? I doubt if I could tell the difference, but for some reason I want to know that from first hand experience. What a goofy hobby this is.

Chris