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Battlestar Galactica Season 4 - Page 9

post #241 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana martin
oh and just speculation, the final cylon is the one person that you would never have though of, the one person who always has compassion no matter what. And has not has a episode about them .
Dee? Unless any of those eps dealing with her love triangle/quadrilateral is considered an ep about her, in part. Doc Cottle? Even weirder.

Must say YiFong's idea that Roslin is the fifth Cylon, and that the old guy's warning about Starbuck is from the Cylons' perspective is quite interesting. Starbuck as the last Cylon is just too obvious, and therefore uninteresting as a story. Either Adama would be a bit much, considering that Tigh is now one. Conversely, if the fifth Cylon is a really small supporting character (e.g. Seelix, Racetrack, Hot Dog, or one of Baltar's new groupies) that wouldn't be interesting story-wise either.

Any final word on when the second half will air? I hope it's this year, I can't imagine having to wait till 2009 to see where this all goes.

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Battlestar Galactica - Season 4.0
post #242 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Turetsky
There's another mystery from early in the series that's still up in the air: Who wrote "Cylon" on Boomer's mirror? One of the recap specials apparently said it was other pilots who suspected her, but that seems really bizarre... If they suspected her, why not confront her or report her to the powers that be?
I always assumed it was Boomer herself. A way for her subconcious to work out what she would not admit to herself conciously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
Must say YiFong's idea that Roslin is the fifth Cylon, and that the old guy's warning about Starbuck is from the Cylons' perspective is quite interesting. Starbuck as the last Cylon is just too obvious, and therefore uninteresting as a story. Either Adama would be a bit much, considering that Tigh is now one. Conversely, if the fifth Cylon is a really small supporting character (e.g. Seelix, Racetrack, Hot Dog, or one of Baltar's new groupies) that wouldn't be interesting story-wise either.
I've never liked the idea of the major decisionmakers being Cylons. It takes away from what the humans have accomplished. Yes, it's more shocking than having Roslin's assistant, but it robs the show of the humans really facing oblivion on their own. That's why the reveal with Tigh hasn't sat well with me. I don't like the Chief, either, because he's always been one of the few upstanding ones among the crew, but he's the perfect level for such a revelation. Someone who is integral enough to the show for the surprise to hit, but someone who hasn't actively shaped the course of human history in the aftermath of the nuclear holocaust.
post #243 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

i can also be baltar. both baltar and roslin have visions.

it can't be a human that hasn't had a weird and strange vision/connection w/cylons like apollo because it will be right from the left field. furthermore it will not make SENSE! batlar and roslin are both strong candidates for being the cylon.
post #244 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I don't like the Chief, either, because he's always been one of the few upstanding ones among the crew

Like when he beat the snot out of Callie during a blackout...
post #245 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
Doc Cottle? Even weirder.


Any final word on when the second half will air? I hope it's this year, I can't imagine having to wait till 2009 to see where this all goes.


Makes perfect sense, minus Baltar, and his cylon detection, Cottle, does it now with blood test, how better to hide what is going on, when questioned on new caprica as to whether the blood was cylon of human , cottle stated cylon, and #3 said well you could just let them die, cottle said its not his way, its not what he does.

best choice, out of the remaining charters
post #246 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger
i can also be baltar. both baltar and roslin have visions.

Maybe it's the other Baltar. The one the 6 sees in HER head.
post #247 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana martin
Makes perfect sense, minus Baltar, and his cylon detection, Cottle, does it now with blood test, how better to hide what is going on, when questioned on new caprica as to whether the blood was cylon of human , cottle stated cylon, and #3 said well you could just let them die, cottle said its not his way, its not what he does.

best choice, out of the remaining charters

It makes sense with the other Cylons being in different areas of control

#2 to the Fleet Commander
#2 to the President
#2 in the Viper gang
or something.

#1 in the Medical area
post #248 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I just hope that whoever it is, it makes sense and you could go back through the episodes and say "Given what we know at the end, that is what they would have done in the past and is consistent." Normally these type of revelations destroy everything in the past because it creates a whole bunch of "why didn't he do this or that during this episode given what he is and what his agenda is?".

It seems like the final cylon is making sure that "everything that is happening has happened before". Sort of the Terminator 3 premise that SkyNet is fated to exist and fight against humanity if we keep playing with technology. The one undying creature (pseudo god) that keeps the balance so that neither side is wiped out of existence. The four are under the control of the one or at least used by the one to help maintain the balance. This brings up the possible idea that "Earth" is wherever they start over and there have been multiple Earths in the past. We just happen to be sitting on the current one if they tie it to our specific planet.
post #249 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I think I want the 5th Cylon to be Dee, even her last name sounds like a person with dual personas (Dualla). Plus, she's in the middle of communications, and would be able to keep tabs on the fleet.
post #250 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Back in the fold -- it's good to have BSG back.

I had forgotten how excellent this show was and the lackluster half or two-thirds of last season didn't help.

FX were always good but the improvement this time around is dramatic. That opening battle was something else.

--
H
post #251 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

we honestly DUNNO! keep us guessing Ron Moore! BTW,
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

the 5th and final cylon won't be revealed until the 2nd and final batch of season4 in 2009 sadly dont expect to see that revealed in the current batch
post #252 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Turetsky
There's another mystery from early in the series that's still up in the air: Who wrote "Cylon" on Boomer's mirror? One of the recap specials apparently said it was other pilots who suspected her, but that seems really bizarre... If they suspected her, why not confront her or report her to the powers that be?

That's a good point. For awhile there I'd thought maybe her subconscious was operating at dual purposes (that is, the side of her that is Boomer when the switch wasn't active, so that in a sense, even as Boomer she wouldn't recall putting that on her mirror). So in total you could view her at that time as possibly having more than just the two subconscious sides of her. Multiple personality disorder can certainly include more than two personalities.

If a fellow pilot did that graffiti, I can't imagine who it would be, but perhaps certainly a pilot that had a rack in that room or would be in a position to be witness to some of Boomer's odd behavior at other times and locations ("33" comes to mind - pilots began to take notice she wasn't fatigued at all).
post #253 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Is Jamie Bamber off the show, or is Apollo just moving to a different ship with less face time?

Baltar is the new Kirk of this generation, he's nailing everything in sight.

Adama is just covering his bets by letting Starbuck do her thing. Can't really hurt to have her go look-about.

Quite a new development amongst the cylons, pretty much a civil war amongst the different models (and Boomer splintering is yet another new development in cylon history).
post #254 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
ZOMG! Cylon civil war!

Didn't see that one coming.

More interesting: Boomer is on the opposite side from the rest of her own model on this civil war thing.

I remember when Athena revealed that the skinjobs lobotomized the centurions for fear that they would rebel. I always thought that piece of information was terribly significant, and it turns out I was right.
post #255 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Lee said that Zarek appointed him to an empty slot at the Quorum of Twelve.
post #256 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Sorry I never got around to my usual recap for last week. I'm dealing with 12-15 page assignments every week now and I just couldn't get around to it.

Battlestar Galactica 4x02 - "Six of One"

The problem with this episode, like many episodes in the last season and a half, is the lack of any episodic structure. Part of what made the first season so stellar was that every episode had a dramatic "A" plot conflict that was resolved within the episode. Lately, we've just been getting episodes full of "B" plots that neither begin nor end in a given episode. Each plot line tonight was engaging and incredibly interesting, but none of them tied into a cohesive whole. This is even more of a problem now that we have a finite number of episodes left; I don't particularly want to run out of clock with build-up.

That criticism aside, the episode did venture into some interesting areas. I think, for instance, that this episode was the first to venture onto a Cylon vessel without a member of the Galactica crew anchoring the plot line to the Colonials. Cavil was being a prick, which is no surprise since he's always a prick. But it did point out the problems faced after boxing all the Threes: three-three is a dead locked vote. I don't think events would have taken the turn they did if the vote had the legitimacy of ALL the threes behind it. The twos, sixes and eights took the action they did only because they felt betrayed by one of their own. It raises interesting questions about the Cylon species's ability to deal with a heterogeneous society. Arguably, things broke down in that conference room for the same reason they broke down on New Caprica: The Cylons are not equipped to deal outside absolutes. At the root of the conflict, the decision by the ones, sixes and eights is fundamentally the same as the one made by the humans: We are better than you, are we are going to make you less than you are to prove it. It didn't work out well for the humans and it won't work out well for the skin jobs.

Also intriguing: Cavil's reference to their original programmers. I'd always assumed that the Centurions made increasing smarter models until they became smart enough to engineer the skin jobs. But Cavil wouldn't defer such authority to them and still make the decision he made. That hints that there is an intermediary between the Centurions made by man and the skin jobs. A missing link from mechanical to biological. Are the final five in fact the first five? Was the decision the ones, fours, and fives made to lobotomize the raiders mirrored by a decision made by the final five to lobotomize the current seven? In the meantime, the Cylon dysfunction gives the colonial fleet some breathing room.

The four of the final five we know about are undeniably different than the seven. But considering that Boomer voted differently from the other eights, it's entirely possible that complexity comes from their more extensive integration into human affairs. I think it's no accident that their council scene followed the Cylon one. There are now three distinct sides in this conflict, and the Four have become the wild card. I loved that Tigh got in a crack at Starbuck; he both really hates her and absolutely knows her. That said, if a fuck up as big as him can be a Cylon, that doesn't exactly rule Starbuck out.

What's gotten into the Admiral? Yelling at everybody, strangling Starbuck, belting down the booze. Part of what made Adama unique was the way he was most dangerous when he was most calm. He was just acting... irresponsible here. I can buy that Starbuck's jab would rile him up, but I didn't buy him tossing her to the ground like that. Everything after that felt in character, however. I especially loved the scene between him and the President. It's such a domestic, intimate scene and yet Starbuck's words are obviously still ringing in his ears. Even as he treats her like his common law wife, he's realizing that they've grown closer than is probably appropriate given the separation of powers in their government. His solution — sending one ship out to follow Starbuck's lead and thus minimizing risk to the fleet as a whole — was the suggestion I was waiting for all along.

What to make of Baltar seeing Six's hallucination of him instead of his hallucination of Six? It certainly challenges the general wisdom that their were both hallucinating in complementary ways; the doppleganger in Baltar's head is dressed just as Six imagines him. This was probably my favorite plot line of the episode because it not only raised intriguing questions, it provided some much needed levity. Baltar's enjoyment of himself was hilarious. When he was banging Tory, I kept waiting for them to roll over and have her mount him so we could check her spine. If she doesn't glow then it opens back up all of the characters we've seen having steamy naked sex without glowing spines. For instance, Baltar, whose spine definitely doesn't not glow mid-coitus.
I still don't think they know what to do with Apollo. His farewell tour carried on a little too long for me. It was also hard for me to generate much emotion since he's dropped out of the fleet several times before and will probably still find his way back to a viper for the next big battle. The kiss with Starbuck did raise some interesting questions though.
post #257 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I think we'll still see Lee Adama, its just that through him, maybe they'll show us more of what the civilian fleet has to contend with. Besides that, it might be a good chance to see that Lampkin guy again, Bulldog or anyone else who guest starred and is living on other ships what they're up to.

Even if Lee winds up being drawn back to Galactica as a pilot by circumstances bigger than him, I see no reason there wouldn't be a few good episodes from the civilian point of view.
post #258 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Remember when Cyclon-on-Cylon violence didn't exist? When the first Cylon killed another, it was a historic moment. Now they slaughter each other at the drop of a hat. These guys are whacked. Also, I'm not sure I understand the wisdom of giving rise to a race of heavily-armed, sentient, robotic centurions that resort to deadly violence if you happen look at them the wrong way. But then, what evil mastermind overlord mad scientist hasn't fallen victim to that kind of hubris? History books are full of such monumental robot-army failures.

And don't the centurions have more appropriate weapons to use inside a star ship than high-caliber, balistic weapons? Jeez, they might shoot the breaker box or something. They should be more careful, or at least use fewer than 300 rounds per target.

With regard to Boomer breaking ranks, I don't understand why this would never have happened before. Yes, units of the same model are identically designed, but, like identical twins, they have different experiences and become different people. (Well, different Cylons, anyway.) Athena even abandoned not just her model, but her entire race, for crying out loud, and chose to side with the humans. Given Athena's behavior, I fail to see how Boomer's simple vote could be so unprecendented.

I. too, am interested in who authorized the skin jobs' "programming". I'm even more interested in why the skin jobs aren't so interested in finding this out for themselves. They know they are programmed to avoid analysis of the Final Five, but they don't even wonder why. They just accept it. I find that perplexing. They could all be sleeper agents for some opposing force, for all they know. I know they're probably programmed to accept it, but doesn't such contradiction usually make robots' heads explode?

What has happened before will happen again. Only this time, when the raiders and centurions rise up against the skin jobs, the skin jobs will have someone to turn to for help. That makes for a pretty cool story, actually.
post #259 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

That would be an interesting twist certainly Brian. What if the only salvation the skinjobs will have is to defect and reconcile with the Colonials?

If the centurions and raiders understand that the source of the skinjobs power over them in part is their ability to resurrect, they will be screwed seven ways to Kobol for sure. And even though we know raiders can likewise resurrect, it still means that in any Cylon civil war, resurrection resources will be paramount as both resources and targets.

I'm not sure what to make of Boomer's motive, that they need to defend themselves and that that is her only reason for voting the way she did. Perhaps she's a foil for the Cavils, Simons and Dorals later on down the line, and truly did buy Natalie's point of view. Or she's simply on her own for some other reason entirely.
post #260 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Is Jamie Bamber off the show, or is Apollo just moving to a different ship with less face time?
He is very much on the show and will be in future episodes.
post #261 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianW
What has happened before will happen again. Only this time, when the raiders and centurions rise up against the skin jobs, the skin jobs will have someone to turn to for help. That makes for a pretty cool story, actually.

Wouldn't it be more interesting if the raiders and centurions told the skinjobs, "Fight your own bloody wars. We're tired of dying for you, so we're going to join the Final Five with the humans."

Then they could build this guy to negotiate for them:

post #262 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

BY YOUR COMMAND...
Quote:
Wouldn't it be more interesting if the raiders and centurions told the skinjobs, "Fight your own bloody wars. We're tired of dying for you, so we're going to join the Final Five with the humans."
I'd definitely tune in for that!
post #263 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Ok not to be too spoilers about all of this, but something I remember from one of the RDM interviews I have read lately, about the direction of this season, and the fact that they brought back some of the original (revamped) models in Razor, the centurions that we see now have been controlled to menial task, while the originals stay away from the cylon fleet, and protect, who knows what, I don’t think that the hybrid that was in razor, was the only time we will see the old style cylons, IMO I see them working with the newer model centurions and raiders, to get rid of the skin job models, so that there is civil war in the cylon ranks, machine verses flesh.

An imperious leader, by you command, I am looking forward to a few more ties to the original show, like that


I see someone else agrees with my idea that the revel will be Cottel, although Dee would be another good choice, cottel makes more sense.

Now I have a question, just wondering if anyone else is doing this. After the opening, before it flashes the fast clips of the episode, any one closing their eyes, or no looking so that everything that happens is a surprise? After I have seen the episode, it ok to see that, but since this is the last season, the flash thru sort of gives too much away.

And for my friends on this board, we don’t have to wait for reruns, or the dvd’s they are on hulu.com the next day, so enjoy.
post #264 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Maybe I'm missing something but why (other than to show that there's a major argument in the Cylon ranks) does Number Six even bother shooting the other Cylons? They're all just going to download into another body.
post #265 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I'm guessing Natalie and her friends have thought it through. Maybe they're going to take over the Resurrection Ship and hold the resurrected Ones, Threes and Fives hostage? Or perhaps they're planning on boxing as many of them as they can get their hands on.
post #266 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Well there is a rift in the cylons, granted i have checked some of the spoiler sites from time to time, but, i think 6 was trying to make the other understand something, funny that Baltar’s manifesto was discussing the social classes but the machines have done that to themselves, the human models, or should I say that some of the human models think them selves superior to the mechanical ones. The mechanical ones were restricted to no independent though. Same with the No 3’s that is why they were boxed, because they were thinking for themselves.
post #267 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Now I have a question, just wondering if anyone else is doing this. After the opening, before it flashes the fast clips of the episode, any one closing their eyes
I have been doing this since the very first episode. I have no idea why they even put it there. They have done everything right, except this. It just spoils every episode!
post #268 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I've gotten used to it and actually kinda like it. They're only very small snippets of a scene anyway and don't necessarily spoil a whole lot for me. What does spoil me a little more than those are just their previews for next episodes and my active imagination
post #269 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Quote:
Now I have a question, just wondering if anyone else is doing this. After the opening, before it flashes the fast clips of the episode, any one closing their eyes, or no looking so that everything that happens is a surprise?
I've been doing this ever since the episode where they (spoiler for season 2 episode) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
spoiled the destruction of Could Nine with Baltar's/Gina's nulear device.
Or, to be more precise, I've been covering my eyes since the episode after that one. What were they thinking? Knowing that would happen completely ruined the impact of that otherwise very powerful episode. They may as well have a "Gilligan's Island"-style opening theme song that tells who dies in each episode.


Joe, that's your cue...
post #270 of 1608

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Nice to see others think the same way, i just hope that when the season ends we get the final two episodes, to be extended cuts on tv, 1.5 hr per ep for the last two.

And I know a lot of attention has been on who is the last of the final five, I have my speculations, but what if we are being thrown a curveball here, what has made this show so much better than what conventionally passes for sci-fi, is that it isn’t conventional in anyway.

Suggestion, what if there is actually 13 models, instead of 12. 13 tribes, so a mirror image, would be one that no one knows about? The fact that the mechanicals don’t count, is odd as well? Different way of operating, but are fundamentally the same damn species? Or am I wrong in that assumption.

So with that factored in
12 human models plus 3 different mechanical types, Centurions, (old Style), Centurions, (new Style), And New Raiders, the old raiders were piloted by Centurions, like the Heavy Raider is now.
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