Battlestar Galactica Season 4 - Page 49

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Aside from the PTSD from almost being annihilated by their technology, it's not clear how long they could have sustained their technology anyway. They couldn't even make another tube of toothpaste. (More accurately, they didn't; but maybe they could have, if they weren't running for their lives.)

On New Earth, there are probably plenty of (very) raw materials, so it might come down to whether the right people and knowledge survived. (Not that they would have to start from scratch, but if you did, how much time and effort would it take to create a complete Blu-ray home theater and a BSG disc to play there?) If they had Gilligan's Professor, they might luck out, if they had enough coconuts.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Some religions believe that angels are humans, both pre- and post-mortal, and not some other type of being. Mormonism, for example (which, of course, has already been brought up as an indirect influence due to the direct influence of the original series).

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I'm going to assume I missed something in a previous episode, but it was new to me that Baltar gave Six access to the colonies' defense systems as an act of love. Sure I knew he "did it for the girl", but I guess I always chalked that up to him trying to impress her, get in her pants, etc.

To me it gives an even deeper perspective on his character throughout the entire series. You have a selfish, arrogant man who has a moment of "weakness" in his eyes and does something for love that turns out to be terribly wrong. Yes, Baltar dealing with this guilt played was a prominent part of his character for the series. But this takes it to another level for me.

It also adds more to the scene with Lee asking if he's ever done something for someone without looking to gain something.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

pretty much my sentiments exactly.



PS did any1 almost half-expected daddy adama to self-destruct his own ship to blow everything the frak up and then have EVERYONE resurrect on 'new earth'? i was glad the ship just simply didn't blow up, but i wouldn't have been surprised if it really did and everyone died, lulz.

PPS did the centurions jump away to ultimately find the 'lizard' race that originated cylons? there were hints of alien race from the original BSG

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Do we know that? My theory was the Mitocondrial DNA (at least alongside the DNA in the nucleus) in was the direct result of a human and Cylon mating.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

JMS pitched Babylon 5 to Paramount in the early '90s and says he left an outline at their offices. When DS9 came out, he went ballistic and accused them of stealing his ideas -- he was especially annoyed that they got DS9 on before B5. Throughout the run of both shows he loved to point out the similarities.

To make matters worse, in the third season JMS wanted to have Robert Foxworth reprise his role as General Hague for the Earth Civil War story, but DS9 hired him to play Admiral Layton -- in the Federation Civil War plot! That's why at the start of B5's civil war arc, Bruce McGill shows up and says, "General Hague's dead. But I'm his second in command, so I'll be taking over his role in the story."

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

If not for the flash-forward, we could imagine that the Galacticans formed the nucleus for early human civilizations, and used their knowledge to teach the primitives to farm and build houses. But by making Hera Mitochondrial Eve, Moore placed the Galacticans on Earth 140,000 years before the earliest agriculture or human settlements. Whatever knowledge they retained was lost.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

But, and correct me if I am wrong, the fact that he grew up on a farm was only revealed in the last episode.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

You are wrong

In the season 3 episode "Dirty Hands," (the one everyone seems to hate, with the workers' strike) Baltar reveals he was born on a dairy farm on Aerilon, and taught himself to be more civilized, like a Caprican, changing his accent, and becoming more than a mere farmer.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I meant qualities like compassion, or kindness, or strength, or agility -- something that would be recognizable outside of a petri dish.

But, there is at least the fact that she carried on the lines of both Cylons and humans, even if they're essentially the same.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Probably lost, and found, and lost and found again. 140,000 is a long time.

Current theories is that even though (credit to wikipedia) "anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 130,000 years ago", we're supposed to believe that they spent the first 120,000 years not doing anything much, and only developed agriculture 10,000 years ago.

But since the limits of our archeology are about 10,000 years* (anything older having turned to dust), it is fair to say we have no idea how many civilizations may have risen and fell before then.

The Galactica folks like the concept of ideas existing in the collective unconscious and being rediscovered (i.e. All Along the Watchtower being rediscovered by Dylan, and even suits and tape dispensers being reinvented just the way they were).

*oldest ruins are Jericho, ca. 9,000 BCE, and some unidentifiable underwater ruins that may be about 12,000 BCE, but at that point things just look like rocks.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Hmmm... Looks like the Galacticans seeded in North America and South America didn't take. According to Wiki (not the most reliable of sources, I know), Native Americans came here via the Bering Land Bridge about 25,000 yaren ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Land_Bridge).

Everything we were taught in grade school says there aren't any indications of people having been here before then.

BTW, count me among the mostly completely satisfied. A little put off by Starbuck's resolution (or lack thereof), but otherwise, blown away.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

carbon dating is seriously flawed:
Carbon Dating 2

but that's a bit OT. since this is fiction, but it is quite 'speculative' in nature which was the original coinage pre science fiction (speculative fiction).

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A little surprised that no one has commented on Gaius' dear dad.

"This be the new one you be banging?"
"How 'bout you love? Bet you charge a lot more than that."
"Even his accent. Stupid bastard actually changed his accent. Would you believe that?"

A small moment in the episode to be sure, but it had me rolling with laughter.

- Walter.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Yee-Ming, FYI, I didn't make the quote you attribute to me in post 1438. I responded to the guy who made the statement.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

When was there a Federation Civil War?

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I want to know if that reporter that Gauis had in the bathroom stall (while being nominated for Vice President) survived.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

If carbon dating is flawed, why does it keep producing the same results every time it gets cross-checked against other forms of radiometric dating?

In order for your linked quackery to be true, all forms of radiodating (Carbon-14 dating is hardly the only one) would have to be wrong in exactly the same way no matter what the age and characteristics of the item being tested. The more likely explanation is that the person who wrote that little diatribe you linked is completely full of it.

Here, I'll let a creationist explain to you what's wrong with your "flaws in carbon dating" argument: Radiometric Dating


Back to the topic, mitochondrial DNA always comes from the mother, never from the father, so this would mean that the mitochondrial DNA of humanity as we know it is 100% cylon, technically making Athena the "Mitochondrial Eve".

Anyway, I was mildly annoyed at the neoluddite business, but since I was expecting it, it didn't really bother me that much. All in all, it was a great ending and I'm glad they emphasized characters over explosions.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

I guess it ultimately depends on whether Cylons have DNA to even pass on, or if they simply mimic it in virtually every way (but not 100%). In which case, the Cylon "programming," akin to human DNA, is mere computer data until mixed with human DNA (in this case, from Helo), and the offspring has the data reprogrammed into DNA. It raises questions like "if Cylons don't have DNA, is there 'crossing over' in the reproduction?" In the end, it's splitting hairs, since there will never really be a definitive canon answer. It's fun to debate, though

With reference to the Bering Land Bridge, the actual date is of migration to North America, is, of course, debated among scholars. As Jared Diamond points out (in "Guns, Germs, and Steel" - a remarkable work), as soon as someone finds a an "earliest X," the race is on to prove X false. Currently, research (mostly around so-called Clovis sites) place the earliest occupation of Siberia (on the Asia side of the Berring Strait) at about 20,000 years ago, and the oldest *unquestioned* human remains in Alaska at 14,000 years ago (12,000 BC). It's unclear at this time when during that period migration actually took place, though most scholars tend to just cite ~14,000 for conversation's sake. Complicating things further is that notion that travel via boat has been found in Indonesia, dating about 40,000 years ago, which has as its implications the small chance that migration to North America occured in a similar fashion (very small, mind you), stretching the window to between 35,000 and 14,000 years ago.

It's all quite interesting stuff, and I wish my work at University allowed me more than just a passing fascination. "Guns, Germs, and Steel" is well-worth a read, if you get the chance.

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You're really stretching things, Josh.

It's as simple as this: the biocylons would not survive without mitochondrial DNA, so they must have it, ergo Athena has it (even if they could somehow--magically--survive without mitochondrial DNA, dr. Baltar's test wouldn't have been so complicated and doc Cottle could have conducted the cylon tests himself). Furthermore, the mitochondrial DNA can't have come from Helo. That's just basic biology. There's simply no way a male zygote can furnish mitochondrial DNA.

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While I agree that Cylons have to have *something* approximate to DNA, it doesn't have to be the exact same thing as DNA, just accomplish the same task. Though, you bring up a good point re: Baltar's tests.

However, please re-read my post again, as I *never* stated that mitochondrial DNA would come from Helo. I instead stated that simply human DNA, in this case Helo's nuclear DNA would mix with Athena's ) My overall point was that if it's possible (and granted you don't seem to agree with me on this) that Cylons don't have *any* DNA in the same sense as humans do, but rather a Cylon-facsimile, and it's only in a hybrid that that Cylon-fascimile is given form in true DNA (thus, making Hera the Mitochondrial Eve).

Ultimately, it's a pretty unfounded statement to state either way that Cylons *must* have mitochondrial DNA to survive. We're talking about robots that can stick their hands in goo and talk to each other, after all.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

"Head Baltar" did make a passing comment standing behind RDM (nice cameo!) saying something like "along with her Cylon mother and human father".

My take is that Athena, being a Cylon, probably didn't have something exactly like mitochondrial DNA, and Hera's is something uniquely blended from both her parents, playing up the whole hybrid angle. The fact that this uniquely blended mitochondrial DNA is now found in all of us is simply to show the theme that Cylons and humans needed to find peace and co-exist together, and we modern-day "humans" being descendants of both Cylons and humans from the Twelve Colonies are continuing living proof of that coexistence.

After all, considering that skinjobs could not procreate 'the usual way', doesn't that already suggest their "DNA", whatever it is, is not the same as human DNA and doesn't work the same way? Whether "old human from 12 Colonies", or "new human" blended on this new Earth.

I was thinking that 150,000 years passing between their landing and modern-day did suggest all their tech was lost and died out, but I hadn't realised modern archaeology's limitations (per Will B). In which case it is naturally possible a Galactican civilization had survived, but fallen thereafter and no remnants can be found today.

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Hadn't thought about that. Great insight!

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The two-parter consisting of Homefront and Paradise Lost, in which Sisko and Odo go to Earth to help ferret out Changeling infiltrators. An Insane Starfleet Admiral (TM) declares martial law and deposes the Federation President.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

No, the original coinage was "scientifiction" by Hugo Gernsback (after whom the Hugo award is named). That quickly mutated into "science fiction". In the '50s, Forry Ackerman shortened it to "sci-fi" which annoyed many fans. "Speculative fiction" didn't come into use until the '60s, mainly because fans were tired of arguing about whether certain books were fantasy or science fiction.

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

There are some nerds who believe that science fiction should literally mean books that depict science in action. Which is why I prefer the term "Fantastrapolation". It never caught on.

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Did the finale run over the 2 hours? It seems it must have as I recorded it Friday night and watched it last night. I always add a couple minutes to my recording time too, but it cut off and time ran out when Hera was walking up the small hill in the meadow, after we see Adama saying he laid out the cabin.

And to make matters worse, for some reason, Sci-Fi does not have this episode where you can view it online.

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Count me as one who thoroughly enjoyed the entire series, including the final episodes. I do have one question. If Kara and the new viper were created by the higher beings, why did they have the viper send the Galactica to the destroyed Earth, before finally sending them to "our" Earth?

Re: Battlestar Galactica Season 4

Yup, it was a full 11 minutes extra. It's available on Amazon.com for a couple bucks. The eventual DVD will be about 20 minutes extra.

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Good point Pat. There are many more like that. Overall I enjoyed Galactica, but I would not consider myself a raving fan. And this has nothing to do with "because it's not the original series". I just think they got way too wrapped up in this whole thing of Cylons who look human, not just their outward appearance, so much so that even doctors could not readily tell the difference. This aspect permeated into so many other facets of the show and brought it down. Before we knew who all the Cylons were we had countless instances of "maybe he's/she's a frakkin' Cylon". It got old.

Also, the whole mysticism of their past, their future, their destiny, got very muddled and convuluted. I still think they never squared the whole mono-theistic vs. multi-theistic thing. That kinda seemed left hanging, along with many other things. Like after losing Laura, why wouldn't Adama live at least near, Lee, Saul and Ellen? Or back a while, they flirted with the whole Baltar as a Christ-like figure, that really went nowhere, relatively speaking.

I feel the focus should have stayed more on finding Earth, the exodus from the Cylons. It could have included some of what it did, like the temple and clues from the gods, etc. But it just got bogged down in so much superflous stuff.

I watched it all, because I enjoy sci-fi and always try to keep an open mind. But at the end of the day, I found it weak and it could have been so much more. And they could have kept the story dark, without devolving into much of what I already mentioned.

So say we all!