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Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray - Page 2

post #31 of 68
4/7/08 at 10:36pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I'm going to go out on a limb here and differ with most of you, but I thought the PQ of this BD was just God awful. It is because of the grain. And no, I am not one to bemoan film grain...on the contrary. What irks me is the shocking level of what I can only call "phantom liquid ghosting" grain which seems to follow moving objects around. It is as if the whole film were set underwater and any movement causes the grain "particles" to move in a wake. It is very noticeable to my eye. It's like everyone has Predator cloaks but they aren't invisible, or perhaps some bad X-Files fx. Anyhow, I don't think I've seen this particular artifact on any other BD thus far, and I sincerely hope I do not again. Very distracting.
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post #32 of 68
4/8/08 at 5:59am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Oh my....

Thanks for the warning. I'll stick with what I have until this is in the 5 dollar bin at walmart. Well, that BR bin doesn't exist yet...but it will!!
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post #33 of 68
4/8/08 at 6:40am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

It's still not clear to me what paidgeek meant when he said it was "extremely grainy". Does that mean "there was more grain than there should be in a good original theatrical print", or does it mean "there was more grain than the marketing boys like to see with our shiny new format"? If it's the latter, I'd be pissed.
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post #34 of 68
4/8/08 at 8:31am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I don't get the feeling that Brian has been scrubbed too clean. I've seen it on film atleast 20 times too. I can't even find anything to blame on the Romans.
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post #35 of 68
4/8/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
It's still not clear to me what paidgeek meant when he said it was "extremely grainy". Does that mean "there was more grain than there should be in a good original theatrical print", or does it mean "there was more grain than the marketing boys like to see with our shiny new format"? If it's the latter, I'd be pissed.

My copy is coming, but perhaps it´s just "grainy". Some films can be. It´s usually up to the viewer that will he/she find it "distracting" or something..

These "is it grainy in a *bad way* or in a *good way*"-debates are another "neverending story" in the forums, especially with HD (which reveal the grain more clearly many times). Grain is part of the film stock, one way or another. If people "hate it", it´s best for them to stick with the films like "Cars" and such..
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post #36 of 68
4/8/08 at 5:11pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Just watched Life Of Brian, and I'm saddened by the tinkering with the picture. Look at any expanse of sky (throughout the whole movie) and you'll see a sheet of frozen grain just hanging there. Ugh.

I hate DNR jobs like this, I really do. And on an older, low-budget flick like Brian it tends to produce artifacts that most people will assume is grain anyway, so what's the f'ing point? It leaves behind a smeary and unnatural looking image that distracts me all too often. The same goes for Anchor Bay's Dawn Of The Dead, as well as several of Paramount's catalogue titles.

I'm not saying that Brian is a hideous mess. It's still very watchable, and given the constraints of the source material I doubt that much more can be done with the film. But I have an intense dislike for grain/noise reduction when used in such an egregious manner, and it's a shame that Sony have joined the DNR bandwagon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
These "is it grainy in a *bad way* or in a *good way*"-debates are another "neverending story" in the forums, especially with HD (which reveal the grain more clearly many times). Grain is part of the film stock, one way or another. If people "hate it", it´s best for them to stick with the films like "Cars" and such..
You're preaching to the converted, Jari. What's worrying is that the studios are actively reducing the grain on older movies precisely so that they don't piss off the "Cars" crowd. It's weird how contemporary stuff gets a pass (look at Paramount's Mi3 or Transformers, the Bournes from Univeral and 300 from Warners, all authentically grainy in HD) but older movies get an eraser taken to them.
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post #37 of 68
4/8/08 at 6:20pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Sounds like you've confirmed my fears, Geoff. Here we have a new video medium that has the ability to bring us closer to the original film, and what do these cretins do? They run the hell AWAY from the original look to make the "I want my movies to look like my video games and Discovery HD" crowd happy.
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post #38 of 68
4/8/08 at 11:15pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
What's worrying is that the studios are actively reducing the grain on older movies precisely so that they don't piss off the "Cars" crowd.

I hear you Geoff..
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post #39 of 68
4/9/08 at 3:48am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
.... It leaves behind a smeary and unnatural looking image that distracts me all too often. The same goes for Anchor Bay's Dawn Of The Dead, as well as several of Paramount's catalogue titles.
I didn't notice anything amiss in that one. I thought it looked unbelievable. Hummm...I'll pay closer attention next viewing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
....It's weird how contemporary stuff gets a pass (look at Paramount's Mi3 or Transformers, the Bournes from Univeral and 300 from Warners, all authentically grainy in HD) but older movies get an eraser taken to them.
I was thinking the newer stuff is made with a grainy look for artistic reasons. But the old stuff they didn't really have a choice. But I'm not defending the grain removal attempts. If they can't do it without making a mess they should just leave it alone.
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post #40 of 68
4/9/08 at 5:45am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Sounds like you've confirmed my fears, Geoff. Here we have a new video medium that has the ability to bring us closer to the original film, and what do these cretins do? They run the hell AWAY from the original look to make the "I want my movies to look like my video games and Discovery HD" crowd happy.
Sad as it may be, it's a matter of economics. The "video games and Discovery HD" crowd is MUCH larger so it makes business sense (if not artistic sense) to make that "crowd happy".

It's the same with music--can I rip it into low-res lossy files to cram an extra 2000 songs on my iPod trumps hi-res audio. And, on a related front, hyper-dynamically compressed audio that "sounds better" in the car, the kitchen clock/cd/radio and, when ripped, on the iPod, trumps PROPER recording and mastering techniques.

Beer--Coors/Coors Light (swill) served at 1 degree above freezing (to mask its hideous taste) [you can substitute Budweiser or Bud Light or any number of other, similarly useless beer] trumps a nicely flavoured microbrew served at a proper 5-8 degrees C (38-48 degrees F).

I could go on. The good stuff is out there but it will NEVER be the dominant stuff. Just the nature of the beast.
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post #41 of 68
4/9/08 at 10:13am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

*shrugs*

I thought Life of Brian looked just fine. It had grain detail enough for me, and I don't need it to look "Discovery Channel".
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post #42 of 68
4/9/08 at 10:18am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

(Brian) "...there's no pleasing some people" (beggar) "That's just what Jesus said...."
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post #43 of 68
4/9/08 at 3:09pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Very droll, Rachael.

Brian looks as good as it ever will on the Blu-ray, and that can't be denied. But I simply don't understand why Sony did what they did, given that this flick will never be pretty to look at no matter how much it's fiddled with, and HDM generally has enough bandwidth to deal with authentically grainy encodes anyway.

And it may be blasphemy to say this, but IF an outfit feels the need to apply DNR to something then I wish they'd do it properly. Dawn Of The Dead has noticeable motion blurring, and some Paramount titles have the frozen grain issue (Black Rain for one). And their Sum Of All Fears HD DVD carries the worst HD encode I've yet seen (out of 275+ titles across three formats), being a smeary, jaggy, artefact-filled horror show.

But others from Paramount have few visible artifacts and one or two have even got the thumbs up from our own RAH (e.g. Top Gun). Just to reiterate: I'm not condoning the DNR process, but if they're gonna do it they may as well do it as best they can.
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post #44 of 68
4/9/08 at 3:17pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I hope it's not as bad as some suggest. I finally bit the bullet and bought this one in the latest Amazon B2G1 deal yesterday. Never even owned it on DVD before.

_Man_
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post #45 of 68
4/9/08 at 3:40pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Geoff, I've only seen the thang a few hundred times. Try the "Wolf Nipple Chips" and "Jaguar's Earlobes"...."they're lovely...."
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post #46 of 68
4/9/08 at 5:10pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I believe they have with the Life of Brian BD. I do not see any artifacts as a result of DNR. Perhaps I shouldn't look for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
Just to reiterate: I'm not condoning the DNR process, but if they're gonna do it they may as well do it as best they can.
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post #47 of 68
4/9/08 at 9:13pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Robertson
I believe they have with the Life of Brian BD. I do not see any artifacts as a result of DNR. Perhaps I shouldn't look for them.
Do you see EE?
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post #48 of 68
4/10/08 at 8:07am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I've only watched it once since I got it, but I was so impressed at what an improvement it was over the DVD I had that maybe I didn't look closely enough for problems.

The film never really looked great to my eyes, even in the theater. I'm well satisfied with the Blu-ray version.
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post #49 of 68
4/10/08 at 10:47am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

That is sometimes hard to tell with my particular display device. It is a Sony CRT rear projection and creates its own "ghosting" effect under certain conditions. This can give the appearance of edge enhancement.

I can view the disc again and see if anything stands out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Do you see EE?
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post #50 of 68
4/10/08 at 10:48am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

That is precisely the experience I had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH.
I've only watched it once since I got it, but I was so impressed at what an improvement it was over the DVD I had that maybe I didn't look closely enough for problems.

The film never really looked great to my eyes, even in the theater. I'm well satisfied with the Blu-ray version.
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post #51 of 68
4/10/08 at 2:18pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Robertson
That is precisely the experience I had.

Same here. I have seen it in theaters several times over the years, and never thought it could look so good.
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post #52 of 68
4/10/08 at 4:53pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Robertson
I believe they have with the Life of Brian BD. I do not see any artifacts as a result of DNR. Perhaps I shouldn't look for them.
I buy these things to watch my favourite movies in the best quality possible, which is why we're all here, right? That being the case, I make no apologies for calling a transfer on its faults, which in Brian's case doesn't require an AVS level of nit-picking but rather my own two eyes.

Static grain patterns in moving shots is wholly unnatural and for me is easily spotted. I watched Bonnie and Clyde earlier and thought to myself 'THAT's how it should be done'. The source is pristine and the HD encode retains the grain structure beautifully.
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post #53 of 68
4/11/08 at 7:50am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I used the same criteria in finding *no* faults. I do not deny that you are seeing something. I am only saying that I am not. Perhaps it comes down to what display technologies people are using. An LCD or Plasma might reveal these artifacts better than a CRT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
I buy these things to watch my favourite movies in the best quality possible, which is why we're all here, right? That being the case, I make no apologies for calling a transfer on its faults, which in Brian's case doesn't require an AVS level of nit-picking but rather my own two eyes.

Static grain patterns in moving shots is wholly unnatural and for me is easily spotted. I watched Bonnie and Clyde earlier and thought to myself 'THAT's how it should be done'. The source is pristine and the HD encode retains the grain structure beautifully.
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post #54 of 68
4/11/08 at 7:28pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
I watched Bonnie and Clyde earlier and thought to myself 'THAT's how it should be done'.
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde was done right makes me even more annoyed. It seems that Warner would rather do it right, whereas Sony would rather make it shiny for their buyers who are into video games.
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post #55 of 68
4/12/08 at 6:24am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde was done right makes me even more annoyed. It seems that Warner would rather do it right, whereas Sony would rather make it shiny for their buyers who are into video games.

Have you even seen the BD of Life of Brian so you can at least have a somewhat informed opinion? or since you're condeming all Sony BD's, their other older titles like Close Encounters, 20 Million Miles to Earth, Passage to India?

In other words, do you have anything productive to add?

Just curious.

My opinion - while I didn't notice any "ghosting" or EE it seems they went a little overboard on cleaning this up "grain wise". Though on the other end of the spectrum it shouldn't look like ass ala the crummy Criterion DVD.
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post #56 of 68
4/12/08 at 7:32am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
since you're condeming all Sony BD's
Exactly where did I condemn "all Sony BDs"? I was referring to this title. The question remains: Why do it right on other titles, and wrong on this one? And why are critical comments intended to get a studio to do things right labeled "nonproductive" by you?
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post #57 of 68
4/12/08 at 8:01am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

I think the issue with Life of Brian was that it was in pretty bad shape. When the restoration was done, they may have over did it a bit. Wasn't it Lowery who did the restoration? If so, this wouldn't be the first time someone has taken issue with their 'improvements'.

Anyway, the bottom line is that issues such as these aren't the exclusive province of any one particular studio. In fact, we may be discussing a similar issue when Warner Bros. releases Clash of the Titans on BD, as it has been alluded to by Bill Hunt that the current condition of that film wasn't suitable for a BD release based on Warner Bros. impression of what the BD consumer base finds 'acceptable'.

As for the little spat here recently, I think users would be wise not to 'paint with such a broad bush (i.e. labeling the BD customer base 'buyers who are into video games'), nor be so quick to jump to conclusions when someone does. We're all in this together, fellas.
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post #58 of 68
4/12/08 at 8:10am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
Exactly where did I condemn "all Sony BDs"?

You wrote this didn't you?

Quote:


It seems that Warner would rather do it right, whereas Sony would rather make it shiny for their buyers who are into video games.

It's pretty much a blanket statement don't you think?

Quote:
The question remains: Why do it right on other titles, and wrong on this one? And why are critical comments intended to get a studio to do things right labeled "nonproductive" by you?

Again you avoided my question. Have you watched this BD yourself to even have an opinion? or do you pass judgment on things based on others opinions?

To answer your question - Criticism is great, and I'm somewhat siding with those that have actually watched the BD and do have a problem with this release.

Blanket statements like the above and uninformed armchair criticism is what rubs me the wrong way.
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post #59 of 68
4/12/08 at 8:29am

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Quote:
It's pretty much a blanket statement don't you think?
I can see how you interpreted it that way. But I haven't made the same comment in threads about other Sony releases. If a studio does it right, they should get praise. If they do it wrong with a subsequent release, they should get criticized. Since you side with those who have a problem with this release, we really don't differ that much.
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post #60 of 68
4/12/08 at 6:29pm

Re: Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' on Blu-Ray

Is there some way for us paying customers to provide feedback about what we actually want to see w/ these restoration-type jobs (among other things)?

I recently ordered this title and will have it for myself soon. Does this one come w/ any feedback postcard or the like just for that kind of purpose? I know Disney likes to go that route for feedback on occasion, particularly during the early years of the format -- I seem to recall them doing it on occasion for DVD and also on occasion for BD now.

If the studios would actually provide an effective way for paying customers to give them useful feedback, then it would make the whole process a lot more productive me thinks. I guess it could also help if the studios actually keep tabs on sites like HTF to get a better sense of what paying customers want from them (on top of something like the inclusion of a feedback postcard in their BD packaging)...

_Man_
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