*** Official STARDUST Discussion Thread - Page 2

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There is still a parallel, regardless of which source came first. The concept was clearly successful in POTC, and must have been at least in the back of the producers' minds.


Regarding not seeing any effeminate characteristics in Sparrow. I don't know what to say. It was instantly obvious to me and several others I know. So much so that the first film became known jokingly as Drag Queens of the Caribbean among us.

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Not to belittle your and your friends' perceptions, but history is important here.

First of all, as already noted, Gaman's novel established the character well in advance of POTC.

Second, the elements of Jack Sparrow to which you're referring were completely and utterly Johnny Depp's creation and famously led to conflict with Disney executives (notably Nina Jacobson) during production of the first POTC. (She later apologized when the film was a hit.)

Third, regardless of individual perceptions (and I personally don't share yours), there is nothing effeminate about Depp's inspirations for the character of Captain Jack. Keith Richards is the famous one; the other one, less noted, but clearly identified by Depp, is Pepe le Pew, because he always assumes himself to be irresistible to women no matter what their reaction.

Apart from history, there's the separate question of character. The essence of Capt. Shakespeare's character is that he's living a double life, showing one face to his crew while his true face is something utterly different. Jack Sparrow is nothing like this. He is who he is with supreme self-confidence and utter indifference to what others may think. I suspect that's the main reason why the parallel never even occurred to me.

Give me enough time, and I could probably construct a detailed argument that Capt. Shakespeare is a ripoff of the Dread Pirate Roberts (bizarre pronunciation, peculiar personal obsessions, all that "swordplay" -- nudge, nudge). Probably wouldn't convince anyone, though.

M.

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I made one comment about one character having a similarity to another. That is all. My main point in the beginning was that I felt the character was somewhat spoiled by taking one scene a bit too far and making it too comical. I said nothing about the motivation or meaning of the characters. Clearly, this has become more about "being right" than relating any deviating perceptions. Go ahead and disagree with my perception on this minor issue. Just don't declare yourselves as undeniably "right". It's a perception

I have gotten into this argument regarding the movies A Far Off Place and Walkabout, when people come in accusing AFOP of being a ripoff of the more highly regarded one, completely ignoring that Walkabout is most likely the "rip-off" since the source material for A Far Off Place pre-date Walkabout and is autobiographical. You know what? They still have similarities, regardless of which came first and what is openly admitted about them. Anyway, this thread has deviated from the topic, which is Stardust, not POTC.

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I personally didn't see the Jack Sparrow connection that John mentioned. Having no history with the source material, I thought the central idea to that part was its casting of De Niro, which is a classic cast-against-type decision. Obviously De Niro has appeared in many comedies in recent years, but his characters are still based on the tough guy image, so the Captain's revelation made the part fun.

Anyhow, I thought this was a very fun movie too.

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I just watched this tonight, and it was a very pleasant surprise. I put a brief review in the review thread, but loved the movie. 5/5

I'm going to have to read the book again. I read it years ago, but forgot a lot of it, just remember that I liked it (as I do most of Gaiman's books)... I read on Wikipedia that it was much darker than the movie, so I think I'll go check it out again. I remember it being a quick read.

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The "sky captain" character originated in Gaiman's novel, but De Niro's characterization most certainly did not. In the book, it's treated like a normal ship's captain and crew (not "pirates" at all).

(Which is not a complaint, De Niro's treatment worked tremendously.)

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I'm clearly (very) late to the party, but my wife and I enjoyed this film Friday night. I was most impressed with Vaughan's certain direction. And it's always great to see Michelle Pfeiffer, who has lost very little of her astounding beauty. A sweet film with a sharp edge. Which makes sense, since it was Gaiman's effort on Coraline that reminded me I hadn't yet seen Stardust.

Anyways, well worth the wait to check this one out. I won't miss another Vaughan film in theaters.

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Loved Stardust. Unfortunately not many people I know liked it, and one friend refuses to watch it after finding out the surprise twist concerning Robert De Niro's character. Twit.

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Nobody here even knows about it. Shame, it's a great film. Unfortunately it's still not out on Blu-Ray.
Too bad your friend didn't want to watch this, De Niro actually is very funny in this.

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This is a top favorite of mine, I just wish we get this film on Blu, there's no reason it shouldn't be out already.