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*** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32* - Page 30

post #871 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
It's been known all along that the HDM market was small, but how really small the market is, is becoming quite apparent now. The figures posted by 'Jesse', boldly underline this fact. Personally I am really shocked at the disinterest shown by consumers towards HDM. The only conclusion I can some to is that this 'war' is really doing major damage to HDM adoption, ofcourse the quality of titles is not helping much either.

I really don't think it's the "war". While we know all about it, we aren't regular consumers by any stretch. I think most people aren't aware that HD DVD and BD exist, and those who do probably found out about it with all the recent news about WB. I think for most consumers DVD is good enough. These are people who take thier displays as is right out of the box, use whatever strech mode they can to fill the screen regardless of how bad it looks, think their upconverting DVD player is highdef, etc. One of the big problems is that both formats spent too much time battling each other over their respective advantages and disadvantages, that they forgot to tell J6P that they had arrived.
post #872 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
I think most people aren't aware that HD DVD and BD exist... I think for most consumers DVD is good enough. These are people who take thier displays as is right out of the box, use whatever strech mode they can to fill the screen regardless of how bad it looks, think their upconverting DVD player is highdef, etc. One of the big problems is that both formats spent too much time battling each other over their respective advantages and disadvantages, that they forgot to tell J6P that they had arrived.

Agree 100 million per cent.
post #873 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Netflix Goes Blu-ray Exclusive

This ought to put a spanner in Toshiba's HD-DVD plans. Personally, I think this is the kind of news that Universal & Paramount have to take note of. As much as their publicly displayed stand might suggest otherwise, it's hard to believe that senior management at both studios can continue with their Ostrich like approach to the evolving market scenario.
post #874 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

A more objective source:

Netflix says chooses Blu-ray format over HD DVD | Technology | Reuters

Just got off the phone with Netflix customer service expressing my displeasure with this decision. According to the rep I spoke with, there is a six-month window before this decision is enacted: they will no longer stock HD DVDs beginning in August. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then but, as long as Universal and Par are supporting the format, subscribers ought to be able to get, say, Apollo 13 from Netflix.
post #875 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

post #876 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Brett, do you have something more substantive to contribute to the discussion . . . something other than stats and graphs readily available elsewhere and laughing smileys?
post #877 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Everybody wants to apply the dvd model to hd without realizing times have changed. I don't believe that you have to have one size fits all. That's why I believe two formats can survive. The difference between the two formats are simple. Blu-ray has the best picture but costs a bit more. Hd-dvd is nearly as good but costs less.

The mistake hd has made is this exclusivity. If were not for studio exclusivity,
both formats would have been able to sell themselves to the public instead
of chasing studio support and paying big bribes.

I see some people saying that hd is ahead of dvd but the competition has reduced prices much faster than dvd dropped. Basically hd is picking the low hanging fruit. It gets much harder for hd now. A NDP Group survey says that 70% of hdtv buyers say that they are satisfied with dvd.
post #878 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

No. I don't. I gave up a long time ago trying to change anyone's mind on this thing. But thanks for the laugh.
post #879 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Duly noted that you're enjoying a "laugh" over restriction of consumer choice (a laugh you could have enjoyed just the same without posting condescending remarks).
post #880 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
A more objective source:

Netflix says chooses Blu-ray format over HD DVD | Technology | Reuters

Just got off the phone with Netflix customer service expressing my displeasure with this decision. According to the rep I spoke with, there is a six-month window before this decision is enacted: they will no longer stock HD DVDs beginning in August. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then but, as long as Universal and Par are supporting the format, subscribers ought to be able to get, say, Apollo 13 from Netflix.

Here's the official Netflix press release. They're not getting any more new releases on HD-DVD, only Blu-Ray, and they'll be clearing out their current HD-DVD inventory in the next few months.

Netflix, Citing a Clear Signal From the Industry, Will Carry High-Def DVDs Only in Blu-ray Format - Feb 11, 2008

Quote:

Netflix, Citing a Clear Signal From the Industry, Will Carry High-Def DVDs Only in Blu-ray Format

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif., Feb. 11 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- With the industry now having picked a winner in the face-off between the two competing high- definition DVD formats, Netflix, Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX), the world's largest online movie rental service, today said that it will move toward stocking high-def DVDs exclusively in the Blu-ray format.

Citing the decision by four of the six major movie studios to publish high-def DVD titles only in the Sony-developed Blu-ray format, Netflix said that as of now it will purchase only Blu-ray discs and will phase out by roughly year's end the alternative high-def format, HD DVD, developed by Toshiba.
Since the first high-definition DVDs came on the market in early 2006, Netflix has stocked both formats. But the company said that in recent months the industry has stated its clear preference for Blu-ray and that it now makes sense for the company to initiate the transition to a single format.

"The prolonged period of competition between two formats has prevented clear communication to the consumer regarding the richness of the high-def experience versus standard definition," said Ted Sarandos, chief content officer for Netflix. "We're now at the point where the industry can pursue the migration to a single format, bring clarity to the consumer and accelerate the adoption of high-def. Going forward, we expect that all of the studios will publish in the Blu-ray format and that the price points of high-def DVD players will come down significantly. These factors could well lead to another decade of disc-based movie watching as the consumer's preferred means."

Added Mr. Sarandos: "From the Netflix perspective, focusing on one format will enable us to create the best experience for subscribers who want high- definition to be an important part of how they enjoy our service."

While only a portion of Netflix subscribers have elected to receive high- def DVDs, a majority of those subscribers have chosen Blu-ray over HD DVD. As part of the transition to Blu-ray, the company said it will acquire no new HD DVDs but that its current HD DVD inventory would continue to rent until the discs' natural life cycle takes them out of circulation in the coming months.

When Warner Home Video announced last month that by the end of this year it will release high-def titles exclusively in the Blu-ray format, it joined fellow majors Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment and Buena Vista Home Entertainment in endorsing Blu-ray. Currently, the two remaining majors, Paramount Home Entertainment and Universal Studios Home Entertainment, publish in the HD DVD format.

Netflix currently stocks over 400 Blu-ray titles, having recently added popular releases such as "Across the Universe" (Sony), "Gone Baby Gone" (Buena Vista) and the Academy Award nominated "Michael Clayton" (Warner Bros.). Blu- ray titles scheduled for release in the next month or so include the Academy Award nominated "No Country for Old Men" (Walt Disney), "Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story" (Sony) and "Alvin and the Chipmunks" (20th Century Fox).

About Netflix
Netflix, Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX) is the world's largest online movie rental service, providing more than seven million subscribers access to more than 90,000 DVD titles plus a growing library of more than 7,000 choices that can be watched instantly on their PCs. The company offers nine subscription plans, starting at only $4.99 per month. There are no due dates and no late fees -- ever. All Netflix plans include both DVDs delivered to subscribers' homes and, for no additional fee, movies and TV series that can be started in as little as 30 seconds on subscribers' PCs. DVDs are delivered free to members by first class mail, with a postage-paid return envelope, from over 100 U.S. shipping points. Nearly 95 percent of Netflix subscribers live in areas that can be reached with generally one business day delivery. Netflix offers personalized movie recommendations and has two billion movie ratings. For more information, visit Netflix Online Movie Rentals - Rent DVDs, Classic Films to DVD New Releases.

SOURCE: Netflix, Inc.
post #881 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
"More objective"? Both links provide the same information.
post #882 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Sanjay, if you think Reuters has the same perspective as Blu-ray.com on this news, then you're as partisan as your posting history indicates. And it's disingenuous to intimate that the objectivity issue is solely a matter of the content of one story; it's the perspective/bias of the whole site.
post #883 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Duly noted that you're enjoying a "laugh" over restriction of consumer choice (a laugh you could have enjoyed just the same without posting condescending remarks).

What consumer choice?

The relevant choice, it seems to me, is among films, not between formats. Having two formats (with non-identical content) restricts consumer choice in this direction, because the consumer with one player does not have access to certain films, whereas the consumer who buys two players to have access to all films spends money he could have spent buying films, & thus his access is limited again.
post #884 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Sanjay, if you think Reuters has the same perspective as Blu-ray.com on this news, then you're as partisan as your posting history indicates. And it's disingenuous to intimate that the objectivity issue is solely a matter of the content of one story; it's the perspective/bias of the whole site.

If blu-ray.com is copying the Reuters news story, what exactly is the difference in terms of linking this one story, other than your obvious distaste for the blu-ray.com website? This silliness reminds me of some of my friends who will call a news story true but the identical story from Fox News as "lies".
post #885 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Well if you're gonna bring player costs into it, and the issue of that money ostensibly not being available to buy software, then yes that's an issue. (But then one could counter with the argument that generally higher BD player costs are a similar problem.)

Quote:
The relevant choice, it seems to me, is among films, not between formats.
This is a distinction without a difference as long as there are films exclusively available on one format.

Quote:
because the consumer with one player does not have access to certain films,
This isn't Nf fault. Nf is only exacerbating the problem.

But my point is not that complicated: with this decision, come around August, Netflix has precluded their customers from being able to enjoy Apollo 13 or Casino on HDM unless they buy it.
post #886 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Your friends have a point.
post #887 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Sanjay, if you think Reuters has the same perspective as Blu-ray.com on this news, then you're as partisan as your posting history indicates. And it's disingenuous to intimate that the objectivity issue is solely a matter of the content of one story; it's the perspective/bias of the whole site.
But in the context of this story, how is the link that I provided any less objective than the Reuters story? This is a straightforward reporting of the news by both Blu-Ray.com and Reuters, how does the question of their perspective come into play? If Reuters or anyone for that matter provides their own "perspective", which in this case it does not, to a news story, then that would not be "objective".

My post was about the news story and not the website, so why would you feel the need to make the 'website' an issue? "Partisan"? Sure, I have never denied which format I prefer. But how is that relevant to my simply providing a link to a story, a story that is not only factual but which is directly relevant to this thread? Also, why would you feel the need to make this a personal issue, are you sure you are not letting your own "partisan" views cloud your judgement here?

PS: Both 'Reuters' & 'Blu-Ray.com' seem to have taken their story from the same, 'official' Netflix press release and neither one has added any information or opinions of their own.
post #888 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
But my point is not that complicated: with this decision, come around August, Netflix has precluded their customers from being able to enjoy Apollo 13 or Casino on HDM unless they buy it.

Your point is valid. However, Universal is exacerbating the problem by only publishing in HD DVD, too. Same as Fox, Sony, Disney, Lionsgate and Paramount. You can't pin this solely on Netflix.
post #889 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
You can't pin this solely on Netflix.
Sure I can--at least this specific component of the larger issue. The studios distribute HDM pursuant to whatever deals they've made with whomever. Nf is in the online disc rental biz. It's not their place to be picking and choosing which format(s) they're going to carry absent the studio ceasing production of a format, which hasn't happened yet, unless it's financially onerous for them to be neutral.

And I find it difficult to believe that the same company that has enough clout to, say, often only purchase the second disc (of supplements) when a new two-disc SE streets and continue renting the old disc one movie transfer doesn't have enough mojo to get reasonable deals on HD DVDs from Par and U, who clearly have incentives to making their HD DVDs available to Nf's millions of customers.
post #890 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
And I find it difficult to believe that the same company that has enough clout to, say, often only purchase the second disc (of supplements) when a new two-disc SE streets and continue renting the old disc one movie transfer doesn't have enough mojo to get reasonable deals on HD DVDs from Par and U, who clearly have incentives to making their HD DVDs available to Nf's millions of customers.

Hmmm...so now you have access to Netflix financials to make a case like this? All based on SE versions in their database? What does that prove, besides a straw man argument?
post #891 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Also, why would you feel the need to make this a personal issue, are you sure you are not letting your own "partisan" views cloud your judgement here?
Yes, I'm sure. If you were solely interested in dispassionate relaying of the facts, then you would have used the Reuters link yourself. I'm just saying it's typical of you that you chose not to do so.

Lucky for you, in this instance, there is actually more information and not much slant to the BD story, so you can now righteously make all sorts of noise about objectivity while at the same time acknowledging your BD preference.

Quote:
what exactly is the difference in terms of linking this one story, other than your obvious distaste for the blu-ray.com website?
Touche.

That site just has a nasty history of spin and I therefore don't care to get HDM news from there when there are so many other choices. One of its lead writers was banned from HTF because of events related to coverage of Home Media Expo 2007.
post #892 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Hmmm...so now you have access to Netflix financials to make a case like this? All based on SE versions in their database? What does that prove, besides a straw man argument?
I think it's a safe opine, Jason. And hardly a straw man. Not only am I speaking from years of Nf customer experience, but I had direct conversations with Ted Sarandos about these issues when I met him at Los Angeles Film Festival.
post #893 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

No disrespect intended, Paul, but you're not the only person on the HTF or in the world who has been a customer for years. Nor are you the first here to claim insider status (of one sort or another). For the rest of us Average Joe's, all we can rely on is the information we see. Netflix, a publicly traded company, made a decision which it thinks will help its share holders. Whether we agree or disagree with that decision, the money being spent on HD DVD's right vs. the relatively few subscriptions they will loose is going to come out on the side of Netflix.

No, I have no hard numbers. Just my own thought processes.
post #894 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
made a decision which it thinks will help its share holders.
I disagree. I think they made a decision that will help their own bottom line--given likely "incentives" from BD-supporting studios--yet probably not have much impact on their stock price one way or the other.
post #895 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I disagree. I think they made a decision that will help their own bottom line--given likely "incentives" from BD-supporting studios--yet probably not have much impact on their stock price one way or the other.

I was REALLY hoping no one would use the "incentive" card here. If you want to claim Sony and the Blu exlusive products/studios as throwing money around (which, btw, Warner said never happened), then bring up the possibility Universal and Paramount took the same from HD DVD (which they also said they didn't, IIRC).

Until we get some real numbers after this transition is done, it's pointless to speculate.
post #896 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
If you want to claim Sony and the Blu exlusive products/studios as throwing money around (which, btw, Warner said never happened), then bring up the possibility Universal and Paramount took the same from HD DVD (which they also said they didn't, IIRC).
It is a tired subject, isn't it? But I'm not talking about studio support and the much-discussed issue of who paid who whatever to support which format.

I'm talking about about the likelihood of Nf being, um, motivated to essentially abandon an admittedly small subset of their customer base, all in the name of ostensible unification behind one format, an issue that will more palpably be determined by the studios.
post #897 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
It is a tired subject, isn't it?
YAY! We agree! Let's go get a drink!

Quote:
I'm talking about about the likelihood of Nf being, um, motivated to essentially abandon an admittedly small subset of their customer base, all in the name of ostensible unification behind one format, an issue that will more palpably be determined by the studios.

If-and I'm thinking out loud here-the industry unifies behind one format, it's a win for all the companies already supporting that one format. Netflix sees, I assume, what they think is the writing on the wall. And in an attempt to cut their losses on HD DVD, they are moving to support Blu Ray exclusively. I don't think any type of motivation has to enter the equation besides doing what they think is best for business.

It's my personal belief and you have your beliefs. Neither one of us is going to be exonerated by facts in the next week or month. Probably not until the first full fiscal quarter after the HD DVD phase out, so we're looking at June...possibly?
post #898 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

One thing you arent accounting for is the possibility that Netflix sees a MUCH bigger potential market if they help HASTEN the demise of HD DVD by committing solely and exclusively to the BD format.

I have never prescribed to the hatred that was aimed at TDB for making the stand they did in the so called format war and I think that as the dominoes have fallen into place from TDB to Warner to now Netflix it is clear that whatever illusion of consumer choice was out there is now long since past and these companies know it. They are setting themselves up to carry on the DVD gravy train and the consumers will not be worse the wear because of this chain of events, in fact we will prosper for it.
post #899 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Yes, I'm sure. If you were solely interested in dispassionate relaying of the facts, then you would have used the Reuters link yourself. I'm just saying it's typical of you that you chose not to do so.
Not that it is any of your business which sites I prefer to link to and why, if you had for a moment cared to think, you might have realised that it is possible that I may have read the news only at 'Blu-Ray.com', before posting here and may have only become aware of the Reuter's news article, from the link provided in your post. One would think, that ought to be enough reason for why I linked to the 'Blu-Ray.com' story, rather than some sinister plan born out of "partisan" reasons. I suppose, in future, I should remember to seek your approval, before linking to any sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Lucky for you, in this instance, there is actually more information and not much slant to the BD story, so you can now righteously make all sorts of noise about objectivity while at the same time acknowledging your BD preference.
So now you are also suggesting that anyone having a preference for something, cannot be objective about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I'm just saying it's typical of you that you chose not to do so.
Inspite of my not so subtle pointer in my previous post, to refrain from getting personal, you still insist on doing just that. It's quite obvious from your posts targeted at me and also from posts targeted at others, that you cannot discuss anything without getting personal. Thus, I would request you to please ignore my posts and or refrain from replying to them, ie. unless you can do so without getting 'personal'. Thanks in advance for your consideration.
post #900 of 992

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Here is some more news, that I am sure will go a long ways in binging this HDM 'war' to an early end.

Best Buy to Recommend Blu-ray over HD DVD


Best Buy to Officially Recommend Blu-ray to Customers

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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32*