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*** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32* - Page 2

post #31 of 992
8/8/07 at 4:57pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
How many HD DVD enthusiasts (percentage) don't like the combo format? Does that describe most "enthusiasts" here who view it as paying more for something they don't want (the DVD)? I get how a "walmart" shopper might like the idea of a combo... especially if they don't yet have an HD player. But for someone who already does have the HD player, it seems redundant (to me).

David,

Of course I can only speak for myself here, but I rather love the COMBOS. Just the other night my wife wanted to watch something on the big system and she's pregnant - she wins all battles for everything (at least for the remaining 3 months!) Anyway, I wanted to check out some of the special features on the Hot Fuzz disc - so I flipped over to the SD-DVD side and PRESTO! I was watching those special features. Also - I can watch them on the road as well this way. And I can lend them out to friends who just want to watch the darn movie, but don't have HD-DVD yet. Paying a $4 premium for that is certainly worth it to me.

As far as 300 is concerned - well I really didn't like the movie - at all; my non-purchase had nothing to do with being a combo. I wouldn't even consider purchasing it. Although I am very interested in watching the IME bluescreen pip - so I guess I'll rent it at some point.

Cheers,

Jason
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post #32 of 992
8/8/07 at 6:41pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Roer
How will this mess with the numbers at all? Do you really believe anyone who has purchased a Bluray player during the time when Dead Man's Chest was released on SD-DVD and the release of At World's End would choose to purchase the SD-DVD release of At World's End, just so they can complete their SD-DVD collection of the Pirates trilogy?

I have no idea what people will or won't do with their money. But I do know a lot of people are weird about having their collection match.

Here's a better question: If Pirates 3 sells (for example) 200k units first week, will we see the first two come to parity in sales at some point?
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post #33 of 992
8/8/07 at 7:05pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Kaz
I have no idea what people will or won't do with their money. But I do know a lot of people are weird about having their collection match.


Brian,

If that were the case, what would be the point for these people to purchase a Bluray player in the first place? It would disturb their SD-DVD collection. Seriously, I cannot imagine a single person who owns a Bluray player and is planning on purchasing At World's End, doing so on SD-DVD just so their collection of the pirates films would match. If anything, like I mentioned before, it will boost sales of the first 2 pirates films on Bluray, so people who only own them on SD-DVD at that point can complete their collection - in the new and superior format.

Cheers,

Jason
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post #34 of 992
8/8/07 at 8:03pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I posted in the 300 sales thread, how I Think the numbers will even out as people buy the HD-DVD drive for the 360 with discount.


I DO believe that there will be a some what significant number of people who do this as I have. Only recently had I been thinking about buying the drive, but the deal put me over the edge.

No, $20 didn't KEEP me from buying the drive as somebody had suggested, I simply was afraid to take the dive, but once the deal came in place, (and you can't argue with 5 free movies, no matter the titles) I purchased it. Eveytime you go on xbox live you see the add for the Drive. I noticed that online it's been selling much more lately. (granted I have no idea how poorly it was already selling)

Look at it this way, if you've owned your Xbox 360 for a while, and you want to go hi def, what do you do? Do you drop $500 on a PS3? Do you drop $450 on a blu-ray player? Or do you spend $180 and get 6 free movies?

I know the 360 is more expensive in the end, but does it matter? Especially not if you've already owned one.




The 360 is dropping in price. The game line up this fall stomps all over anything the PS3 has this year. Halo 3 will sell more copies than the total number of PS3's in the whole year.
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post #35 of 992
8/8/07 at 8:53pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I saw the thread about the War talk, and I had to laugh and add:

Quote:
GENTLEMEN! You can't fight in here, this is the WAR ROOM!

As for the war itself, I'm an uneasy switzerland. =)
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post #36 of 992
8/8/07 at 9:25pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
I wonder where did you get those numbers for players...

there are around 2mil BD players (PS+standalone), and there are around 450,000 HD-DVD players around (including addon)

so check your math again..
Even using your numbers, Marek, (450k HD DVD and 2M BD decks) instead of Dave>h's (600k and 3M, respectively), the resulting percentages are similarly disparate (19.3 and 8.2 versus 14.5 and 5.4%, respectively). It seems to me his (qualified) point about attach rates stands.
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post #37 of 992
8/8/07 at 10:19pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Roer
Brian,

If that were the case, what would be the point for these people to purchase a Bluray player in the first place?

Well, I'm thinking because the PS3 sorta throws a wrench in the equasion as there are many owners of that hardware that just dabble in Blu-ray purchases. I'm not saying it won't be huge, just that it might not be. How's that for a firm, no-nonsense opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
The 360 is dropping in price. The game line up this fall stomps all over anything the PS3 has this year.
Yes, Lord knows PS3 gamers will be crying this holiday over their sh!tty exclusives like Heavenly Sword, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo: Prologue, Haze, Folklore, Time Crisis, Home, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune........
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post #38 of 992
8/8/07 at 11:00pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Here's a link that can be interpreted a number of ways on the topic of the Console players...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161833

Basically says (From NPD) that 30% of 360 owners are aware of HD graphics and only 40% of PS3 owners are aware it's a BR Player.

I'm not sure what to make of the numbers, on one hand I want to say that it shows console gamers aren't inherently movie fanatics and every PS3 can't count as a BR Player.

But on the other hand, I can see a really decent case for ignorance of and not caring about HD formats in any medium at all.

Of course, the biggest fault I find with this is it doesn't say exactly how many of the consoles are used strictly by < 18 year olds, whose parents pay little attention to it. Because a 12 year old will have little grasp of resolutions in gaming or movies, and if the Adult just bought it for the kid and never read the box, no reason to expect them to be aware. Soccer Mom effect. It's especially telling that they included 6 year olds in the study, IMO *really* ridiculous. A 6 year old, or even a 10 year old, has little grasp of even Surround Sound, much less resolution. Apparently some number of Non-owners were counted as well, which IMO is a tainted sample as they lack even the box and instructions to have any clue.

Regardless, the one thing it shows is that PS3 definitely can't be counted 1:1 as Players, and maybe less than 2:1.

Anyways, make of it what you will, it's still interesting data for many I'm sure.
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post #39 of 992
8/9/07 at 1:03am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
..only 40% of PS3 owners are aware it's a BR Player..

This sounds a bit hard to believe. I fully understand that not all gamers use PS3 for watching Blu-ray-films, but not knowing that it´s also a Blu-ray-player doesn´t sound realistic.
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post #40 of 992
8/9/07 at 4:52am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
This sounds a bit hard to believe. I fully understand that not all gamers use PS3 for watching Blu-ray-films, but not knowing that it´s also a Blu-ray-player doesn´t sound realistic.
I tend to agree with you. I would certainly believe that 40% of PS3 owners could care less that it plays BD movies, but I would be amazed if they did not realize it was a BD player.
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post #41 of 992
8/9/07 at 5:03am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
I posted in the 300 sales thread, how I Think the numbers will even out as people buy the HD-DVD drive for the 360 with discount.
Being a 360 and HD-DVD owner I can agree that the discount will spur sales of the add-on, but I seriously doubt to the extent of evening out the hardware sales discreptancy between HD and BD sales. With the current cuts on the PS3, and BD stand alones dropping in price, it should help HD hold it's ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
The 360 is dropping in price. The game line up this fall stomps all over anything the PS3 has this year. Halo 3 will sell more copies than the total number of PS3's in the whole year.
Yes, the XBox is dropping in price, and the new 65ns systems should be out by the holiday season with maybe even another price cut at that time, but both systems are going to have some killer games hit the marketplace. At this time, the game line up for the XBox looks stronger on paper, but time will tell. As far as Halo 3 selling more copies that the total PS3 sales, I suppose that is possible. What I see Halo 3 doing for the XBox 360 sales is converting many of the original XBox owners who have not yet committed to this generation of gaming systems into 360 owners. There are currently millions of potential new 360 owners among them.
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post #42 of 992
8/9/07 at 6:54am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Regardless, the one thing it shows is that PS3 definitely can't be counted 1:1 as Players, and maybe less than 2:1.

No informed BD proponent has ever suggested that 100% of PS3s would be used for Blu-ray Disc movie playing/collecting.

The notion has been:

1. early on, a portio of HD enthusiasts bought the PS3 primarily for BD movie use as at the time it was the cheapest, offered the best-AV quality, and the best path for firmware upgradeability (the latter two are still mostly true).

2. many (not all, not necessarily even most) gamers who purchased the PS3 without BD-movie use in mind might, over time, gradually get into the BD market as their curiosity or interest in HD movie media developed over time.
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post #43 of 992
8/9/07 at 6:55am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Roer
How will this mess with the numbers at all? Do you really believe anyone who has purchased a Bluray player during the time when Dead Man's Chest was released on SD-DVD and the release of At World's End would choose to purchase the SD-DVD release of At World's End, just so they can complete their SD-DVD collection of the Pirates trilogy? It's much more likely that there will be a deal on all the Bluray releases of the Pirates films when At World's End streets and that will result in those people purchasing the entire trilogy in Bluray.

Cheers,

Jason


Maybe some of you have more disposable income than me, but I don't understand the repurchasing of newly released movies.

Blu-ray or HD DVD is already a more expensive format, so my wife and I decided early on that any new purchases would be in Blu-ray (the format we own), but we would not repurchase anything we already own on DVD.

I think many people are in the same boat and use similar reasoning which could account for the "disappointing" sales for The Matrix Trilogy and the first two Pirates films in their HD media releases.

Day and Date releases are the key to jump starting HD media sales, which the 300 release clearly demonstrated.
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post #44 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:10am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Kaz
Well, I'm thinking because the PS3 sorta throws a wrench in the equasion as there are many owners of that hardware that just dabble in Blu-ray purchases. I'm not saying it won't be huge, just that it might not be. How's that for a firm, no-nonsense opinion?


Yes, Lord knows PS3 gamers will be crying this holiday over their sh!tty exclusives like Heavenly Sword, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo: Prologue, Haze, Folklore, Time Crisis, Home, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune........

yes, exactly, PS3 exclusives are much much better comapre to Xbox360 games line up...

Marek.
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post #45 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:17am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Roer
Brian,

If that were the case, what would be the point for these people to purchase a Bluray player in the first place? It would disturb their SD-DVD collection. Seriously, I cannot imagine a single person who owns a Bluray player and is planning on purchasing At World's End, doing so on SD-DVD just so their collection of the pirates films would match. If anything, like I mentioned before, it will boost sales of the first 2 pirates films on Bluray, so people who only own them on SD-DVD at that point can complete their collection - in the new and superior format.

Cheers,

Jason

I think a fair number of people will buy them on SD DVD also just so they can play them in the van, or in a kids room. Or so they don't have their teens and preteens messing with the very expensive HD equimpment.

Doug
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post #46 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:20am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
I tend to agree with you. I would certainly believe that 40% of PS3 owners could care less that it plays BD movies, but I would be amazed if they did not realize it was a BD player.

I wouldn't be surprised if 40% of them don't even know what blu-ray is. It also wouldn't surprise me if those 40% are in a teenagers room hooked up to a 19inch tv.

Doug
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post #47 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:23am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sheffield
Maybe some of you have more disposable income than me, but I don't understand the repurchasing of newly released movies.

Blu-ray or HD DVD is already a more expensive format, so my wife and I decided early on that any new purchases would be in Blu-ray (the format we own), but we would not repurchase anything we already own on DVD.

I think many people are in the same boat and use similar reasoning which could account for the "disappointing" sales for The Matrix Trilogy and the first two Pirates films in their HD media releases.

Day and Date releases are the key to jump starting HD media sales, which the 300 release clearly demonstrated.

Considering the market size at the time of release I wouldn't call sales of either Pirates or The Matrix disappointing.

Doug
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post #48 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:32am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Maybe some of you have more disposable income than me, but I don't understand the repurchasing of newly released movies.

Blu-ray or HD DVD is already a more expensive format, so my wife and I decided early on that any new purchases would be in Blu-ray (the format we own), but we would not repurchase anything we already own on DVD.

Do what I do. Sell your old DVD on amazon.com. It's easy, the money goes right into your bank account (no need to deal with requesting payment), and you just drop the old DVD into a bubble mailer and off it goes.

You can get an average of $5-10 dollars proffit on discs in good condition. That makes it less painful to upgrade to High-def when the title "warrants it". Then you can buy the new Blu-ray Disc used off Amazon as well to help off-set the cost difference a bit.

Don't sell yourselves short if you can use sales of your old DVDs to help fund your new high-def collection!
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post #49 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:38am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Do what I do. Sell your old DVD on amazon.com. It's easy, the money goes right into your bank account (no need to deal with requesting payment), and you just drop the old DVD into a bubble mailer and off it goes.

You can get an average of $5-10 dollars proffit on discs in good condition. That makes it less painful to upgrade to High-def when the title "warrants it". Then you can buy the new Blu-ray Disc used off Amazon as well to help off-set the cost difference a bit.

Don't sell yourselves short if you can use sales of your old DVDs to help fund your new high-def collection!

I sell mine to Bookman's, a local new and used bookstore, for store credit. On the rare occasions when I sell a DVD.

Doug
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post #50 of 992
8/9/07 at 7:59am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

David, re your post #48:

Are you referring to putting the discs up for sale yourself via Amazon Marketplace? Or "FBA"--Fulfillment By Amazon?

I've been using Wherehouse.com for years (basically local so shipping to and fro is fast; in store credit that I turn right around and use for other goodies) upon upgrading to remastered CDs, DVD-A, SACD, SE DVDs and now high def. But I'm disappointed in their rate of payment for pre-owned HD ($6 for my Fugitive HD DVD? No ma'am.). Have you sold much high def on Amazon (stuff you bought and no longer want for whatever reason) and has their pricing been attractive / at least as good as SD?
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post #51 of 992
8/9/07 at 8:08am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Paul,

I'm talking about setting up a market place account. It's painless and easy... within one evening I had set up an account, loaded titles (you key in the bar-code so you don't have to search and worry about multiple versions of DVDs like the 10 versions of the Mummy Returns). By the next morning I had sold over $100 of DVDs.

Again, my experience is that with "like new" DVDs, I can get between $5 and $10 profit on most titles. On DVDs where there's a glut of used listings, not so easy. But most movies sell quickly, and listing them is 100% free.

Amazon collects payment from the user and posts payment to your account, and then once a week or so does a direct-deposit into your bank. It couldn't be simpler from a sellers-point-of-view.
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post #52 of 992
8/9/07 at 8:08am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I generally either trade mine into DVD Planet, or I sell mine via half.com. I've been cannabilizing the hell out of my SD DVD collection for over a year now.
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post #53 of 992
8/9/07 at 8:15am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
I've been cannabilizing the hell out of my SD DVD collection for over a year now.

Paul, me too!

Funny: I amassed that huge (2000+) collection of DVDs as my "movies for life" library of film. Yet once I got the projector I started to become disenchanted with many DVDs which were not true-to-film in appearance, and once I got Blu-ray I couldn't believe how *true to film* HD can really be. Now I'm looking forward to my new 1080p projector! Did I mention lossless audio? Thank-you Disney and Sony (every BD has it). Warner... get with the program!

In any case, I never would have beleived that I'd be selling off so many of my "favorite films" on DVD so soon. Even many that aren't yet announced for HD! But I know that now that I've tasted 1080p, there are many films that I won't want to watch again until I see them *THE RIGHT WAY*... looking like the film print that the director took such care to make. For titles I can "wait to see" until they appear in HD, it's time to recoup some of those costs now.

(p.s. of course there are DVD titles that are near/dear to my heart that won't leave my library until their HD counterparts appear on the shelf)
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post #54 of 992
8/9/07 at 8:22am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I actually haven't sold any of my SD DVDs. In fact I bought Rio Bravo and The Searchers on both HD DVD and SD DVD. I wanted the cool set with the lobby cards and the comic books. Plus I watch them on SD players now and then.

Doug
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post #55 of 992
8/9/07 at 8:34am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
I DO believe that there will be a some what significant number of people who do this as I have. Only recently had I been thinking about buying the drive, but the deal put me over the edge.

No, $20 didn't KEEP me from buying the drive as somebody had suggested, I simply was afraid to take the dive, but once the deal came in place, (and you can't argue with 5 free movies, no matter the titles) I purchased it. Eveytime you go on xbox live you see the add for the Drive. I noticed that online it's been selling much more lately. (granted I have no idea how poorly it was already selling)

Look at it this way, if you've owned your Xbox 360 for a while, and you want to go hi def, what do you do? Do you drop $500 on a PS3? Do you drop $450 on a blu-ray player? Or do you spend $180 and get 6 free movies?

I know the 360 is more expensive in the end, but does it matter? Especially not if you've already owned one.
This was exactly my same experience and thinking when I did the same thing. The other thing that pushed me was Planet Earth being released, that pushed me into HD in general, with my 360 and that sale making it the most reasonable choice.
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post #56 of 992
8/9/07 at 9:05am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I think a fair number of people will buy them on SD DVD also just so they can play them in the van, or in a kids room. Or so they don't have their teens and preteens messing with the very expensive HD equimpment.

Doug


Yeah - too bad Bluray doesn't do COMBOS! Your point is exactly the reason I love my combo discs.

Cheers,

Jason
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post #57 of 992
8/9/07 at 9:11am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sheffield
Maybe some of you have more disposable income than me, but I don't understand the repurchasing of newly released movies.

Blu-ray or HD DVD is already a more expensive format, so my wife and I decided early on that any new purchases would be in Blu-ray (the format we own), but we would not repurchase anything we already own on DVD.

I think many people are in the same boat and use similar reasoning which could account for the "disappointing" sales for The Matrix Trilogy and the first two Pirates films in their HD media releases.

Day and Date releases are the key to jump starting HD media sales, which the 300 release clearly demonstrated.

I wasn't suggesting that all people will repurchase the other two films, rather that it was more likely that someone who owns a bluray player would make the purchase of At World's End on their new format and not worry about the fact that the other two are in SD (if that is even the case for them). And if they do some kind of deal for the 3 films - which I'm sure they will - then I'm certain a good portion of those who don't have the other 2, will make the purchase at that time. Heck - it will be close enough to the Holidays - they might get it as a present.

By the way - my wife and I said in the beginning that we wouldn't repurchase any of our SD-DVDs with HDs - but we've already done so for 5 films - heck when you get a good deal on the discs and sell off the old one, you're looking at something like $5-10 for the upgrade. Not too shabby!

Cheers,

Jason
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post #58 of 992
8/9/07 at 10:04am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sheffield
Maybe some of you have more disposable income than me, but I don't understand the repurchasing of newly released movies.

Blu-ray or HD DVD is already a more expensive format, so my wife and I decided early on that any new purchases would be in Blu-ray (the format we own), but we would not repurchase anything we already own on DVD.

I think many people are in the same boat and use similar reasoning which could account for the "disappointing" sales for The Matrix Trilogy and the first two Pirates films in their HD media releases.

Day and Date releases are the key to jump starting HD media sales, which the 300 release clearly demonstrated.

I agree completely with the purchasing of titles. I have not purchased any titles that I own on DVD and am focusing on titles that I do not own and all new releases are in HDDVD. The only titles that I WILL rebuy down the road are Gladiator, LOTR, SPR, Shrek, Pixar stuff.
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post #59 of 992
8/9/07 at 12:25pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarekM
yes, exactly, PS3 exclusives are much much better comapre to Xbox360 games line up...

Marek.
Not a chance. Might be equal, but Sony has lost the luster it had with the PS2. Most exclusive games studios to the PS2 have moved on to non-exclusive status.

If you look at the line-up of likely to be released this year games, Sony is going to have a hard time matching the 360's game selection. Next year might be different.
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post #60 of 992
8/9/07 at 1:20pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
If you look at the line-up of likely to be released this year games, Sony is going to have a hard time matching the 360's game selection.
The PS3 exclusives list I wrote in my last post respectfully disagrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
Sony has lost the luster it had with the PS2. Most exclusive games studios to the PS2 have moved on to non-exclusive status.
Sony hasn't "lost" anything. Higher development costs have leveled the playing field somewhat regarding exclusives, but I would take Sony's first and second party developers over MS's any day of the week.

Of course, I'm also a PC gamer so I can get most of the 360 "exclusives" anyway...
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32*