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*** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32* - Page 7

post #181 of 992
8/15/07 at 2:46pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinslot
This has of course firmly pushed me into THE HD DVD CAMP!!!!!

You're joking... right?
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post #182 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:08pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Oh, I forgot to add that both sides will find something behind the numbers that eventually support "their format" of choice..
I guess that said, some may find the the rather dismal sales total sales of 1.6 million BD disks since the first of the year as the nail in the coffin of HD supporters since the HD side only sold an equally dismal 800,000. Report With numbers like these, neither format is destined to win anything except of course last place to SD.
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post #183 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:18pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinslot
This has of course firmly pushed me into THE HD DVD CAMP!!!!!
You're joking... right?
I don't know. Justin may have come up with the most reasonable reason for supporting one side or the other. At least it opens up a whole new avenue for discussion.

BD supporter - More capacity
HD supporter - Less sticky
BD supporter - More capacity
HD supporter - Less sticky
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post #184 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:28pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I can handle the security stickers. It's those damned rfids that are insane. I've had 2 BDs that had those abominations on them.
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post #185 of 992
8/15/07 at 5:12pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Well, Here's a question for all of you.




We can pretty much all agree that the format war will probably continue well into the next year.

Within a year or two after that, Microsoft will probably release a next generation system.


Now, Microsoft has shown their goals of digital distribution, however I don't see a way to provide that with the next system. At least for game content anyways.

If Blu-Ray is anything but the undisputed dominating force in Hi Def optical media, I can't see Microsoft bowing down to Sony after their relationship with Toshiba.

I can definately see Microsft putting an HD-DVD drive in their next system if HD-DVD has even a slight foothold. At what point would that be shooting themselves in the foot? Wii doesn't even play movies and it's on pace to over take the Xbox as the number one selling console worldwide.
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post #186 of 992
8/15/07 at 5:47pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I am completely serious about cheap security Blu-ray stickers. My first three purchases, and the copy of Dr Strange I opened last night all have gunk residue on the case (unlike all of my HD DVDs.) (None of my import Blu-rays do but I can't remember if they had stickers or not.) I am of course kidding about this pushing me into HD DVD, though I always enjoy rooting for the underdog.
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post #187 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:09pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
Well, Here's a question for all of you.




We can pretty much all agree that the format war will probably continue well into the next year.

Within a year or two after that, Microsoft will probably release a next generation system.


Now, Microsoft has shown their goals of digital distribution, however I don't see a way to provide that with the next system. At least for game content anyways.

If Blu-Ray is anything but the undisputed dominating force in Hi Def optical media, I can't see Microsoft bowing down to Sony after their relationship with Toshiba.

I can definately see Microsft putting an HD-DVD drive in their next system if HD-DVD has even a slight foothold. At what point would that be shooting themselves in the foot? Wii doesn't even play movies and it's on pace to over take the Xbox as the number one selling console worldwide.

I don't really know.....

It's FAR too early to make such a prediction, but logically speaking, If HD-DVD has attained a modest foothold in the market by the time MS launches the 360 replacement, I think it'll more than likely have the HD-DVD drive built in.
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post #188 of 992
8/15/07 at 7:39pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

300 Week 2:

28000 Blu Ray
9500 HD-DVD

3:1

Looks like that HD-DVD add on floodgate hasn't quite opened yet

http://uk.reuters.com/article/techno...19176920070815
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post #189 of 992
8/15/07 at 7:50pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Berggren
300 Week 2:

28000 Blu Ray
9500 HD-DVD

3:1

Looks like that HD-DVD add on floodgate hasn't quite opened yet
Who ever expected a HD DVD add-on flodgate? Or did I miss a post somewhere.
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post #190 of 992
8/15/07 at 8:09pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Who ever expected a HD DVD add-on flodgate? Or did I miss a post somewhere.

Yes, and it was most likely in the now legendary "The End is Near" thread.
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post #191 of 992
8/15/07 at 10:04pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Yes, and it was most likely in the now legendary "The End is Near" thread.

Actually it was in the 300 thread.
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post #192 of 992
8/15/07 at 10:17pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
..With numbers like these, neither format is destined to win anything except of course last place to SD.

I also forgot to add, that in the end, HD DVD-camp will use the "neither format is destined to win"-argument if nothing else work. (just kidding, honestly)

It´s true that comparing to SD DVD, "HD" has plenty to go..
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post #193 of 992
8/15/07 at 10:48pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
Well, Here's a question for all of you.




We can pretty much all agree that the format war will probably continue well into the next year.

Within a year or two after that, Microsoft will probably release a next generation system.


Now, Microsoft has shown their goals of digital distribution, however I don't see a way to provide that with the next system. At least for game content anyways.

If Blu-Ray is anything but the undisputed dominating force in Hi Def optical media, I can't see Microsoft bowing down to Sony after their relationship with Toshiba.

I can definately see Microsft putting an HD-DVD drive in their next system if HD-DVD has even a slight foothold. At what point would that be shooting themselves in the foot? Wii doesn't even play movies and it's on pace to over take the Xbox as the number one selling console worldwide.

Started out with one response, but it got *way* too technical, so I'll summarize.

I have serious doubts if there'll be another console generation. I don't think they'll be able to overcome the Heat issues nor the increasing power requirements problem that threatens to exceed what is reasonable for a console.

Regardless, at this moment in time I strongly suspect Sony's running the risk of having made their last console. EA announced this week that Madden 2008 will run at 60fps on the 360 and 30fps on the PS3, that's a very serious image problem for Sony on perhaps the most popular console title possible. That's *really* going to end up hurting them, especially if any bad news follows in the next few weeks.

As such, if/once MS controls the console market, I really don't think they care which physical format wins. From that point, their goal is the Digital market, and I strongly believe that there won't be anyone who can challenge them. They've got a hardware solution for storage, an already existing and tested distribution setup, and "Good enough" quality to establish themselves as a "New rental format".

I don't think MS cares a whit about HD-DVD, it really makes no sense for them to care, they don't have anything to gain or lose from HD-DVD outside of opposing PS3. IMO, if PS3 bombs, there's no reason for MS to not support BR, especially since Sony will be in a very poor position to launch another console any time soon.
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post #194 of 992
8/16/07 at 1:54am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
I don't think MS cares a whit about HD-DVD..

This is pretty much the truth. It´s not called "add-on" for nothing. At the moment, they´re in it for the games (where they´re doing a great job), HD DVD is just something extra that you could get if you want. Even if you want it; no HDMI, no 1080p, no support for the new HD audio formats..
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post #195 of 992
8/16/07 at 4:46am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Even if you want it; no HDMI, no 1080p, no support for the new HD audio formats..
Wrong on HDMI, 1080p, and soon wrong on TrueHD support. All new shipping XBOX Elites and Professional models (possible core also) sport an HDMI port, 1080p has been supported for months, and TrueHD is slated for release in the near future.
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post #196 of 992
8/16/07 at 5:27am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
All new shipping XBOX Elites and Professional models (possible core also) sport an HDMI port, 1080p has been supported for months, and TrueHD is slated for release in the near future.

I was talking about the "normal model". It´s weak as a HD DVD-player (very nice game console, though).

Elite doesn´t have HDMI 1.3 to my knowledge?

Based on Wikipedia, retail price will be USD$449.99 (+ HD DVD add-on?), so it´ll be in the same price range as PS3 (around).
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post #197 of 992
8/16/07 at 6:04am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

My Lord, there are so many XBOX SKUs to choose from, its a wonder people know what to buy.
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post #198 of 992
8/16/07 at 6:45am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

So basically M$ screwed the first 11 million customer...
Also the next million or so wont get much better treatment, they are still using the 90nm chipset and old mother board...
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post #199 of 992
8/16/07 at 6:54am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

On another note: Happy 25th bday CD

IMHO: This benchmark will eventually be equaled by DVD. So we can stop comparing High Def with DVD...
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post #200 of 992
8/16/07 at 7:04am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

If Chinese made HD-DVD players do make it to the US, they expand the HD market not shrink it. They primarily serve the average people who are not willing to pay the sums that BR is demanding. Certainly lower than the initial prices but still closer to $500 than $200. By the time it gets down to average consumers, companies moan they don't make any money anyway. Early adopters are not going to buy these players anyway so that market is still available for higher end companies.
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post #201 of 992
8/16/07 at 7:57am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
If Chinese made HD-DVD players do make it to the US, they expand the HD market not shrink it.

Here are some of the problems I have with the Chinese HD player as mesiah school of thought, it is my opinion that the vast majority of the customer base that would be attracted to the price-point of such a player, be it BD or HD DVD, either A) Don't have an HDTV yet, B) Would be turned off by the high price of HDM, or C) All of the above.
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post #202 of 992
8/16/07 at 8:11am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
I can handle the security stickers. It's those damned rfids that are insane. I've had 2 BDs that had those abominations on them.

Brett, what are rfids?
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post #203 of 992
8/16/07 at 8:17am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Brett, what are rfids?

I believe Brett is referring to the large, square, typically black, stickers that appear on the inside, front of the case. Underneath these stickers is an RFID tag. These are quite often a major pain to remove. The trick is to go slowly when removing it, and to use the sticker itself to remove the residue. This requires patience, and, usually, a lot of swearing, which it is why I generally wait until the kids are asleep to do it.
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post #204 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:21am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Here are some of the problems I have with the Chinese HD player as mesiah school of thought, it is my opinion that the vast majority of the customer base that would be attracted to the price-point of such a player, be it BD or HD DVD, either A) Don't have an HDTV yet, B) Would be turned off by the high price of HDM, or C) All of the above.


I don't know, Wal-mart has been selling quite a few HDTVs. Some of them for as little as $250. Granted they are 19inch, but they are still HD. Right now they have a 32inch HDTV for $500.

Doug
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post #205 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:26am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
I was talking about the "normal model". It´s weak as a HD DVD-player (very nice game console, though).

Elite doesn´t have HDMI 1.3 to my knowledge?
The Pro is the normal model. Only the Core HDMI support is currently undecided, and for cost purposes (single mother board), even the Core will probably carry HDMI.)

I believe all are 1.31 which would make since as that had been the current HDMI specs for months before MS redesigned the Motherboard to include HDMI.

With HDMI available, the 360 makes a fine HD player.
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post #206 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:29am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
My Lord, there are so many XBOX SKUs to choose from, its a wonder people know what to buy.
There are 3 SKU's for XBox 360 (Elite, Pro and Core), 2 for the PS3. I don't see any issue.
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post #207 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:31am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Here are some of the problems I have with the Chinese HD player as mesiah school of thought, it is my opinion that the vast majority of the customer base that would be attracted to the price-point of such a player, be it BD or HD DVD, either A) Don't have an HDTV yet, B) Would be turned off by the high price of HDM, or C) All of the above.
You could be right, but until they do, HD and BD will stay products that only appeal to HT buffs, meaning continued low sales.
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post #208 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:32am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
I believe Brett is referring to the large, square, typically black, stickers that appear on the inside, front of the case. Underneath these stickers is an RFID tag. These are quite often a major pain to remove. The trick is to go slowly when removing it, and to use the sticker itself to remove the residue. This requires patience, and, usually, a lot of swearing, which it is why I generally wait until the kids are asleep to do it.
God, I hate those security tags. I have more cuts under my finger nails from trying to peel them off.
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post #209 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:42am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
I don't know, Wal-mart has been selling quite a few HDTVs. Some of them for as little as $250. Granted they are 19inch, but they are still HD.
Right now they have a 32inch HDTV for $500.

Though watched from a viewing angle narrower than 2 screen-widths distance, HD and SD look pretty much alike. So unless viewers are watching those 32 inch HD sets from four feet away, they won't necessarily reveal the kind of improvements with HD media that will help push the sale of HD DVD/BD.

The HT enthusiasts have begun to win the battle to educate about "widescreen" and HD quality. But the next battle will be "wide angle" as it's the only real way to appreciate the improvement that HD resolution can bring. Folks buying HD flat-screens to hang on their wall to get rid of the bulky entertainment center won't notice the benefits of HD resolution watching those small/medium displays from the sofa accross the room.

I've noticed that most consumers I talk to still view the "size" of the TV they want in old NTSC terms... because they're used to the crappy picture of getting to close to an NTSC set and they haven't reframed their thinking about "how big" a screen should be now that we have DVD and HD DVD media to view on high-quality monitors. My dad keeps saying "it's too big" everytime I try to convince him to upgrade to a new 40-50" HDTV screen... he sits about 10 feet away from his 27" 4x3 NTSC set and it's just a mental block to get past the "it's too big" hurddle. Of course, I keep working on him...
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post #210 of 992
8/16/07 at 9:58am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
You could be right, but until they do, HD and BD will stay products that only appeal to HT buffs, meaning continued low sales.

You know, I think I honestly prefer that they stay that way for the time being. Of course, I am a firm believer that they'll either never gain mass appeal or won't until there's a single format. And we've been there, done that to death.

I guess the main point I am trying to make here is that hardware sales alone won't drive mass adoption. The studios are hell bent to drive hardware prices down at the expense of CE companies margins so that they can increase the margins on their software, but the average consumer is used to low-price software, and I don't think they're going to buy $100 HD players, so they can turn around and blow nearly twice that much on six HDM titles to watch.
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