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*** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32* - Page 6

post #151 of 992
8/14/07 at 6:46pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
However, more chinese players will only continue to hurt HD DVD for long-term viability as it will mean more low-cost players that keep the big brand names from wanting to bother with support. What a format needs to generate confidence is for consumers to see names that they trust. Sure, once they are confident that a format is here to stay (ala DVD), they'll buy cheap players and be happy. But instant low-cost Chinese players can also backfire by driving away brand-name support and keeping consumers suspect about a format's industry-backing and long-term viability.
How so. The cheap Chinese DVD's have not stopped the name brands from continuing to support the DVD format. Nor will the hurt the manufacturers in their support of the HD formats. These low price players, if they ever materialize, will just increase the user base. We might not buy these players, but there are millions of consumers who have proven that low cost DVD players are good enough for them. I expect the same will happen with HD and BD.
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post #152 of 992
8/14/07 at 6:51pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
The problem is that Toshiba's profit-cutting sales strategy to create a "consumer advantage" with low-cost players has driven away all interest by other major CE companies to get behind HD DVD hardware.
And how has the opposite helped the BD side, assuming the current crop of low priced players is not being subsidized by the manufacturers. What it has done is allowed many manufactures to create over priced low sales hardware and cut into each other's profit. An then Sony cut's all of their throats by having a game console that has been rated as one of the best BD players on the market. There is little difference between the two main proponents of HD and BD. The only difference is that Toshiba is not hurting any other manufacturer at this time.
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post #153 of 992
8/14/07 at 9:51pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

These points have been expressed clearly dozens of times already... between you and me... in other threads. Did you honestly forget and want me to repeat myself? Does every thread at HTF need to regurgitate the same worn explanations?
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post #154 of 992
8/14/07 at 11:30pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Let´s face it. We are going in circles as long as the "format war" drags on. Same arguments from both sides all over again.
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post #155 of 992
8/14/07 at 11:32pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Matthews
All exclusives are temporary.

You will be able to buy Pirates of the Caribbean on another high-def format one day.

You really have faith my brother..
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post #156 of 992
8/15/07 at 12:23am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

interesting news from EUROPE

http://www.videobusiness.com/blog/11...html#990013099

BD outselling HD-DVD close to 3:1

Quote:
All that said, internationally Blu-ray enjoys a wider margin of close to 3:1 over HD DVD. In its report of first-half home entertainment sales internationally, research concern Media Control GfK International shows consumers outside the U.S. bought about 650,000 units of Blu-ray software, valued at more than $23 million, with HD DVD selling just around 240,000 units valued at about $8.5 million in the first half.
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post #157 of 992
8/15/07 at 12:31am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

other interesting info,

http://uk.reuters.com/article/techno...19176920070815


Quote:
A Home Media spokeswoman said Blu-ray got a further boost in August from strong sales of the "300" title. Stephen Nickerson, senior vice president, market management at Warner Home Video (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research), reported sales of about 190,000 Blu-ray units of the film, versus 97,000 in HD-DVD since July 31.


we have nice new info about progress of 300 in BD and HD-DVD camp

last ratio and sales numbers were 65:35 or 162500:87500

now we have additional 28000 for BD and 9500 for HD-DVD with ratio 74.66:25.34

interesting can't wait for friday data with info about first title breaking 200,000 units for BD

overall ratio moved from 65:35 up to 66.2:33.8 or 190,000:97,000

Marek
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post #158 of 992
8/15/07 at 12:57am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Marek, it won´t be long when someone says that "it means nothing". And then we go again.

Seriously, in the end both sides can bring these different figures to the table, but the hell freezes before that "other side" really believes them (they´re "biased" etc) or feels that they´ve any real effect to the format war. Format war - Ain´t it grand?
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post #159 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:51am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
These points have been expressed clearly dozens of times already... between you and me... in other threads. Did you honestly forget and want me to repeat myself? Does every thread at HTF need to regurgitate the same worn explanations?
No. The fact is IMHO, your points were wrong then, and they are now. Repeating them does not validate them.
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post #160 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:54am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
You really have faith my brother..
No, just probability. The longer the dual format situation holds and both formats continue to grow ins sales with no percentage differences between the two formats, the more likely exclusives will break rank. Losses of profitability will continue to get larger.
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post #161 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:57am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
No, just probability. The longer the dual format situation holds and both formats continue to grow ins sales with no percentage differences between the two formats, the more likely exclusives will break rank. Losses of profitability will continue to get larger.


yes you are right Thomas, but with that logic, first on the PLATE is UNIVERSAL, and if that happen, war is over....
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post #162 of 992
8/15/07 at 3:58am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Marek, it won´t be long when someone says that "it means nothing". And then we go again.

Seriously, in the end both sides can bring these different figures to the table, but the hell freezes before that "other side" really believes them (they´re "biased" etc) or feels that they´ve any real effect to the format war. Format war - Ain´t it grand?
It means a lot. It absolutely shows the profit that can be reached by supporting both formats. 2:1 ratio is what it has been for the last 8 months, and that ratio continues to hold. If Warner supported only one format it would have lost 4 mil in retail sales at the minimum. Smart studio.
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post #163 of 992
8/15/07 at 4:00am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarekM
yes you are right Thomas, but with that logic, first on the PLATE is UNIVERSAL, and if that happen, war is over....
Possibly Universal. But more likely many studios at once.
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post #164 of 992
8/15/07 at 4:17am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
Possibly Universal. But more likely many studios at once.

the problem ist, that Universal is by that logic (I am not saying that is something wrong with that logic) is loosing most of them... but who know what relationship is with Toshiba and Microsoft...

on the other side Disney is quite strong with region coding, and Fox well with all piracy and BD+ and who knows what else....

but yes it could happen that more studios at once, but lookiing at current situation without my BD as favorit I think that will not happen... with current slate of releases BD side is much much stronger, with chance to change ratio over 70:30, but only time will tell

Marek
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post #165 of 992
8/15/07 at 5:51am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarekM
but only time will tell

Marek
Can't disagree with you on that. Time will.
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post #166 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:08am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
the problem ist, that Universal is by that logic (I am not saying that is something wrong with that logic) is loosing most of them
Of course not. It's Fox.
Universal get the HD DVD revenues (so to say). Fox are losing both.


Cees
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post #167 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:15am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
You really have faith my brother..
Keep in mind, that HD format I mentioned is not necessarily HD DVD.
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post #168 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:17am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
It means a lot. It absolutely shows the profit that can be reached by supporting both formats. 2:1 ratio is what it has been for the last 8 months, and that ratio continues to hold. If Warner supported only one format it would have lost 4 mil in retail sales at the minimum. Smart studio.

Oh, I forgot to add that both sides will find something behind the numbers that eventually support "their format" of choice..
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post #169 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:18am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Fox are losing both.

Sadly, very true.
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post #170 of 992
8/15/07 at 6:37am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
These points have been expressed clearly dozens of times already... between you and me... in other threads. Did you honestly forget and want me to repeat myself? Does every thread at HTF need to regurgitate the same worn explanations?

No. The fact is IMHO, your points were wrong then, and they are now. Repeating them does not validate them.

I didn't ask you if you *agreed* with my points, Thomas. Obviously you don't. Obviously we all know that.

You're the one who asked me to clarify already well-defended points. I asked if you *remembered* me sharing them with you (dozens) of times already. If you do, which it sounds like you're indicating, then why are you asking me to explain them all over again? If you know them and don't agree, then let the argument rest in peace and don't suggest that I need to express the same points over again just because you happen to not agree with them.
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post #171 of 992
8/15/07 at 7:17am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Let´s face it. We are going in circles as long as the "format war" drags on. Same arguments from both sides all over again.

I couldn't agree more. For me, I've decided to take a new, novel approach. I'll let my money do the talking and spend the extra time watching movies. *Gasp* "The horror, the horror".
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post #172 of 992
8/15/07 at 8:47am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I didn't ask you if you *agreed* with my points, Thomas. Obviously you don't. Obviously we all know that.

You're the one who asked me to clarify already well-defended points. I asked if you *remembered* me sharing them with you (dozens) of times already. If you do, which it sounds like you're indicating, then why are you asking me to explain them all over again? If you know them and don't agree, then let the argument rest in peace and don't suggest that I need to express the same points over again just because you happen to not agree with them.
If you continue to post as established fact conclusions reached by specious reasoning without also posting that reasoning so all can judge for themselves, expect to continue to be challenged on those assertions.

If you want to score the points, you have to do the work.
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post #173 of 992
8/15/07 at 10:29am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Norman,

Thomas and I have covered this very ground, together, over and over already in other threads (which clearly you didn't read) and I was specifically responding to *his* request for a reiterated conversation. If you and I had just exhausted a discussion together in one thread, would it be logical for me to then ask you the same questions all over again as if you had never explained your reasoning to me before?

Quote:
If you continue to post as established fact conclusions reached by specious reasoning without also posting that reasoning so all can judge for themselves, expect to continue to be challenged on those assertions.

Well, you might as well start by peeling back the proverbial onion of reasoning-layers of your own opinions until 100% of our readership is satisifed. Who shall we deem the judge who can arbitrarily decide when a reasonable exposition has been obtained? Or should we spend another 2 years establishing a common ground of information in this thread as a basis for discussion just like we did in the last?


Quote:
If you want to score the points, you have to do the work.

Score points? I'm having an intelligent discussion, and have been posting at HTF on this topic for years.. What game are you playing?
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post #174 of 992
8/15/07 at 11:07am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

The problem David is that apparently your original arguments were not convincing, so when you come into another thread and state the same arguments yet again, you should expect to be challenged on them again.

Doug
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post #175 of 992
8/15/07 at 11:15am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Doug,

My arguments were as convincing as they needed to be in other threads. Not everyone agrees with my conclusions, just like not everyone agrees with yours, or Thomas', or all of anyone else's.

When conversations have exhuasted themselves and both parties agree to disagree, then what's the point of those same discussion participants asking each other to recycle the *same* rationale all over again as if they've never heard? If someone *genuinely* unfamiliar with the concept of why consumers might fear a beta/VHS-style format war really want to know or how the CE manufacturers were looking to HD media to reap new profits which Toshiba has instead undercut, fine, we can go it all over again.

Honestly, you KNOW that know one else can post as much about their opinion as I can. I'm trying to give everyone a BREAK by not needlessly recycling the same-old-discussion for no good reason. So let's all agree that if we understand each other, but still disagree, that we don't need to keep repeating ourselves... or asking each other to do so when we already know what we each think and why.
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post #176 of 992
8/15/07 at 11:20am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

David,

I understand your point, however also understand that you are bringing up an old argument in a new thread. But you are not saying "I have new facts to back up my argument", you're simply restating the same argument. So naturally the same people who disagreed with you are coming back and saying that you "didn't prove anything before so why are you stating this again? Do you have something new to add to your arguments?"

They don't feel that they can just let you state your same case again with out being challenged on something they think is incorrect.

Doug
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post #177 of 992
8/15/07 at 2:26pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Douglas has pretty much said what needs to be said. I don't doubt that you've given your reasons for your opinions elsewhere on the board, but just having given those reasons does not make it a settled point, which is how it sounds you expect these points to be taken when you say things like, "I spent over two years explaining it in a thread that was just recently closed. I should hope we don't have to reiterate every obvious debate and argument/justification all over again. None of these well-covered points are a mystery to anyone."

You're acting like this is an unreasonable request, but I don't have this issue with anyone else's posts on these matters. I have plenty of other issues with some other people's points, but your posts are the only ones that consistently set off the "Invalid Proof" alarm in my head. Most other people seem to have no problem either reiterating what proof they feel they have or of phrasing their opinions in a way that doesn't frame them as well traveled, firmly established fact.

Anyway, what I really wanted to respond to was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Score points? I'm having an intelligent discussion, and have been posting at HTF on this topic for years.. What game are you playing?
It's called a metaphor, nothing more. Don't try to score points by purposely misreading it.
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post #178 of 992
8/15/07 at 2:31pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Fine. I'll start reiterating all 1000 detailed points all over again. I'm sure that will make everyone who's read these tired arguments and knows them inside and out from all sides quite happy.

dave
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post #179 of 992
8/15/07 at 2:33pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

Don't worry David, some of us will still continue to disagree with your conclusions.

- Walter.
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post #180 of 992
8/15/07 at 2:37pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread

I gotta say, as a dual format person, the one thing that's been annoying me about Blu-rays is--and this is probably minor--they've been using really cruddy security tape on the packaging. I think every American Blu-ray release I have except Final Fantasy has left sticker residue on the case. This is in stark contrast to my HD DVD pile where the tape always came off easy. This has of course firmly pushed me into THE HD DVD CAMP!!!!!
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › *** Official HTF HD Formats Comparison Thread *See Post 957, p. 32*